Under the bullet card

[The Dust Collector]

I think that I had mentioned this in a past post, but since I have expanded the use of this method to all of my straight cases. Pistol and rifle.
With the price of gas checks being as such, I thought that it’s about time to do some experimenting. I ended up with what I think is a very tenable solution for the replacement of metallic gas checks.
A good friend’s wife is a professional picture framer. She fabricates the frame and highlights the picture in a boarder called matting. This is a very uniform high grade card stock. Read expensive.
I noticed that she was throwing away the scraps of this matting and asked if she could throw them my way. I’m glad that I had asked for this material makes a wonderful under the bullet wad. But not as is.
I have some machining experience and have made punches for myself.
The following punches are for the 357 Mag, (.360”) 44Mag, (.431”) and 45-70, (.461).
The matting measures .042” thick.
After I have many wads punched out, I “boil” them in a mixture of beeswax and 50/50 ALOX bullet lube to a ratio 1 part beeswax and 1 part 50/50 ALOX by volume, melting both separately in order to make the measurement. Once this wax mixture is finished, I control the temperature to 215*- 225*. I do this “boiling” in a deep 1 quart sauce pan. You only need about a pint of wax mixture in the pan.
A basket has been made to be about ¾ the diameter of the pan and about an inch higher than the pan is deep. This I made of 3/16” squares hardware cloth and ¼“ wire to form a usable handle and around the upper circumference of the basket. Soldering things together.
Placing the wads into the basket (about 1/3 full) and slowly lowering into the wax mix.
There is some latent moisture in these wads, so when the wads enter the hot wax mix, the moisture bubbles off as in making French fries but not nearly as violent a reaction. Be careful anyway!
After the bubbling has stopped, the moisture is gone and the wads are saturated, raise the basket up and let drain a bit. I then spread the wads out (they’re still HOT) on an expanded metal “IN / OUT” basket that has several sheets of news paper under it. Use a soup spoon for the spreading.
Expanded metal “IN / OUT” baskets can be had in the office supply section at Wally World and these baskets work real good for this purpose. You need 2.
They’re about 12”X 16” X 2”. Black or silver.
Keep these wads moving and separate of each other until cool. When cool I put the wads into paper bag along with about a tablespoon talcum baby power and shake the up until all are thoroughly coated and then dump them out on another “IN / OUT” basket to remove the excess talc.
When loading I just press one into the slightly flared case flush with my finger and allow the bullet to push it down to it’s loaded depth.
With the exception of my 45-70, my powder charges leave enough space so that the added thickness of the wad doesn’t compromise the powder charge. Reducing your loads accordingly until you’re confident that excessive pressure isn’t a problem.
I’ve had the pleasure of finding that my grouping has improved in my revolvers. My 45-70 loads were developed with the wad under the bullet because I chose a plain base bullet at the start. My best group is
A 9 shot cluster at 100 yards measuring .917”. This I did 31 MAY 02 using my Centennial Ruger #1. My load: 35 grains of IMR 3031, RCBS
45-500-BPS, my waxed wad, CCI standard LR primer and a home brewed bullet lube. This was at a club match.
The Ruger sports a Leupold 16X scope and a few modifications.
I hope that this information can be of some help to others.
DUST

[windrider919]

Interesting. I have been trying two types of wads to improve performance but had not thought of impregnating my own. I have been punching waxed paper wads from milk containers and .250 thick polystyrine ones from the sturdy 'family pac' meat trays out of the meat department. I have also tried linolium wads but they did not improve accuracy. I'll try your recipe.

[Southern Son]

Most BPCR shooters are using some type of wad, LDPE plastic is cheap and readily available, milk cartons, before I switched to LDPE, I was using coco pops cartons and many use old fur felt hats. Some time the guys will soak the fur felt wad in their lube. A quick warning about the fur felt, make sure that it is not synthetic, that stuff melts the momet flame hits it, and the gunk left behind sticks to everything.

[compass will]

DC, Wonder if it would be eaiser to figure out a way to impregnate the paper in larger pieces, let them dry, then punch out the wads?

[NSP64]

Why all the work? can you not use it as is?Have you tried any bottleneck rounds?

[The Dust Collector]

I suppose you could use them as punched, but I believe that the added lubricant has a softening effect on the wad and hence a hydralic effect that seals the bore more efficiently. The wax also leaves a nice polish in the bore. The wax also has a fire retardent quality that I feel safer with when I use these loads for hunting in the fall or anytime that there is dry kindlings around to start a fire. I've seen smoking wads before and don't like it.
As I said this is what works for me!
DUST

[woody1]

Dust, thanks for the info. I'm wondering about the abrasiveness of talc/baby powder. Anyone know? Would graphite dust be less abrasive? Just wondering. Regards, Woody

[The Dust Collector]

I've been using cards under my 45-70s for well over 30 years. These waxed matting cards for close to 15 years at least. I used motor mica at first and changed after a friend was using the baby talc with good results. My 45-70s have a mirror finnish still with knife sharp lands and grooves. I can not begin to say how many rounds that I have capped off using a card wad under my plain base bullets. I think to much of my toys to put them in harms way. I see no harm done to any!
DUST

[Junior1942]

For us non-machinists, Buffalo Arms sells (high!) a dandy press mounted punch. I use one to cut 44 mag wads from styrofoam for my bumblebee shot loads. For 45-70, I got much better accuracy when I went to the 1/2" x 1/8" pure felt wads I sell (cheap!) lubed with a 1:2 ratio beeswax:lard cookie mix. I bet 45-70 wads punched from beer flats and soak-lubed would work well. The beer flat cardboard has built-in lube channels.

[ktw]

For us non-machinists, Buffalo Arms sells (high!) a dandy press mounted punch.

+1 on the press mounted wad punch from buffalo arms. Not cheap but definitely the easiest way I have found to punch out a lot of wads from a variety of materials. I currently have one in 38 (rifle). Saving up to get another in 45.

I have punched more than my share of wads using a rubber mallet and a discarded cartridge case on a block of aspen end-grain. This works for small quantities but life is too short if you need a lot of wads

-ktw

[Bent Ramrod]

It's been years since I paid any attention to rocks and minerals, but if I recall, talc is 2 on a scale where mica is 3 and quartz is 7. (Mho's scale or something?) So the talc should be non erosive.

The cardboards that are used to stiffen calendars for mailing are a very fine corrugated material. I use those for lube wads or, unlubed, as filler in cartridges. They punch out very precisely, waxed or unwaxed, unlike the coarser corrugated material, which in my experience tends to collapse and crack.

Another old buffalo runner's trick I use is to cut wads out of those aluminum-painted circular sheets that come with microwaveable pizzas. (Cook the pizza in a real oven.) I set the wads in the case with the metallic side down towards the powder. They're thinner than milk carton material but the metal wash makes burning through unlikely and the "white" side is fairly slick and not likely to stick to the boolit base.

[Alchemist]

Dust, thanks for the info. I'm wondering about the abrasiveness of talc/baby powder. Anyone know? Would graphite dust be less abrasive? Just wondering. Regards, Woody


Why not use powdered mica from midway...they suggest using it to dust lubed boolits to make them less sticky. My two cents...

Alchemist

[rockrat]

How about powdered graphite. Get it at a tractor supply or your local John Deere store. Another possibility is cornstarch baby powder. Going to have to try this!!

[Boerrancher]

It's been years since I paid any attention to rocks and minerals, but if I recall, talc is 2 on a scale where mica is 3 and quartz is 7. (Mho's scale or something?) So the talc should be non erosive.



Owning a Gem and mineral import business, the Moh's scale is something I am vary familiar with. Talc is a 2 in hardness, and most of the carbon steels are around a 5. Now keep in mind that on this scale a 3 is 10x harder than a 2, and a 4 is 10x harder then a 3. I think you get the idea as to how the scale works. For those of you who are wondering about Graphite, it is also a 2 on the moh's scale, so it will be no more abrasive than talc. Just remember that graphite is carbon, and heat and pressure cause carbon to turn into diamonds which are a 10 on the scale. I wouldn't worry about that though if your loading hot enough to make diamonds in your bore, they will be the least of your worries. I am not sure where corn starch would fall on the scale since it is a plant material, but I am sure it is softer than talc or graphite.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[Ricochet]

I just did some brief Googling on synthetic diamonds. Apparently under the High Temperature, High Pressure process they're using a pressure of 55,000 atmospheres at a temp of 5000°C.

Vapor deposition at a pressure of less than 1 atmosphere and a temp of 800°C has pretty much replaced it, though.

I liked the way Superman would just squeeze a lump of coal into a huge, perfect diamond whenever he needed cash for some good deed.

[felix]

Diamonds are a big thanks to GE research years ago working for Hughes drilling operations. GE actually makes all (?) the pure diamonds in the world? Don't cosmetic diamonds have some fault to distinguish them in the cosmetic/investment trade, and most especially from the industrial diamonds? ... felix

[Ricochet]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_diamond

[felix]

Should've just googled it up front, eh? Whenever in doubt.... ... felix

[joeb33050]

May I copy this and put it in the book?
Thanks;
joe b.


I think that I had mentioned this in a past post, but since I have expanded the use of this method to all of my straight cases. Pistol and rifle.
With the price of gas checks being as such, I thought that it’s about time to do some experimenting. I ended up with what I think is a very tenable solution for the replacement of metallic gas checks.
A good friend’s wife is a professional picture framer. She fabricates the frame and highlights the picture in a boarder called matting. This is a very uniform high grade card stock. Read expensive.
I noticed that she was throwing away the scraps of this matting and asked if she could throw them my way. I’m glad that I had asked for this material makes a wonderful under the bullet wad. But not as is.
I have some machining experience and have made punches for myself.
The following punches are for the 357 Mag, (.360”) 44Mag, (.431”) and 45-70, (.461).
The matting measures .042” thick.
After I have many wads punched out, I “boil” them in a mixture of beeswax and 50/50 ALOX bullet lube to a ratio 1 part beeswax and 1 part 50/50 ALOX by volume, melting both separately in order to make the measurement. Once this wax mixture is finished, I control the temperature to 215*- 225*. I do this “boiling” in a deep 1 quart sauce pan. You only need about a pint of wax mixture in the pan.
A basket has been made to be about ¾ the diameter of the pan and about an inch higher than the pan is deep. This I made of 3/16” squares hardware cloth and ¼“ wire to form a usable handle and around the upper circumference of the basket. Soldering things together.
Placing the wads into the basket (about 1/3 full) and slowly lowering into the wax mix.
There is some latent moisture in these wads, so when the wads enter the hot wax mix, the moisture bubbles off as in making French fries but not nearly as violent a reaction. Be careful anyway!
After the bubbling has stopped, the moisture is gone and the wads are saturated, raise the basket up and let drain a bit. I then spread the wads out (they’re still HOT) on an expanded metal “IN / OUT” basket that has several sheets of news paper under it. Use a soup spoon for the spreading.
Expanded metal “IN / OUT” baskets can be had in the office supply section at Wally World and these baskets work real good for this purpose. You need 2.
They’re about 12”X 16” X 2”. Black or silver.
Keep these wads moving and separate of each other until cool. When cool I put the wads into paper bag along with about a tablespoon talcum baby power and shake the up until all are thoroughly coated and then dump them out on another “IN / OUT” basket to remove the excess talc.
When loading I just press one into the slightly flared case flush with my finger and allow the bullet to push it down to it’s loaded depth.
With the exception of my 45-70, my powder charges leave enough space so that the added thickness of the wad doesn’t compromise the powder charge. Reducing your loads accordingly until you’re confident that excessive pressure isn’t a problem.
I’ve had the pleasure of finding that my grouping has improved in my revolvers. My 45-70 loads were developed with the wad under the bullet because I chose a plain base bullet at the start. My best group is
A 9 shot cluster at 100 yards measuring .917”. This I did 31 MAY 02 using my Centennial Ruger #1. My load: 53 grains of IMR 3031, RCBS
45-500-BPS, my waxed wad, CCI standard LR primer and a home brewed bullet lube. This was at a club match.
The Ruger sports a Leupold 16X scope and a few modifications.
I hope that this information can be of some help to others.
DUST

[The Dust Collector]

I posted this article in the hope that it may help someone.
If the owner of this site has no problem with your using this, I do not have any objections to it.
DUST

Gentlemen, I made an error in my original post stating that a 53 grain charge of IMR 3031 was used. This was a mistake which I have corrected in the original post ,to be 35 grains of IMR 3031.
Joe, if you use this in your book please make sure that the charge is changed to 35 grains of IMR 3031.


A Ruger will hold the first charge stated but it will recoil with most authority.

You have my deepest apologies! DUST

[joeb33050]

Thanks, it's up and in the book. I can't send a PM for some reason; Would you like your real name there for correct attribution?
Thanks;
joe b.

[AZ-Stew]

DC,

Thanks for the correction.

This is the type of honest, innocent typographical error which highlights what's been said in another thread: Beginners in the handloading hobby/art should get their charge data and primer info from published handloading manuals, not the internet. Don't get me wrong, I'm not ragging on you, DC, for this error, just makin a point for the newcomers.

That having been said, I sincerely appreciate your info regarding the card wads. This thread has given me a number of ideas regarding the fabrication of these wads. If I just had a milling machine...

Regards,

Stew

[The Dust Collector]

joeb33050,
I appreciate your asking! I have my name on enough formats, SOPs, & PJIs.
The Dust Collector will suffice.
Thank You......... DUST