can cast be shot with NO lube?

[Throckmorton]

A friend just got a great buy on 500 .38 boolits,but they are not lubed,and the seller..who seemed to know a LOT about reloading,says they are hard enough to run at .38 special velocities.
I doubt what he says is true,but I'll bow to the collective wisdom here on this one.
thanks all

No,I don't know how 'hard' they are,or have a tester find out.

[wiljen]

You could shoot em with no lube, as long as you have a good plan for removing the leading from the bore when you are done. Unless it has a jacket, it needs lube.
I'd get some Alox and tumble lube em.

[felix]

Maybe true. Keep velocity under 850 for sure. ... felix

[R.M.]

I'd think you'd have to stay in the 650 neighborhood, but gee, you could wipe just about anything on them like floor wax or a beeswax candle or something. Wouldn't take much at a low velocity. Or like has been suggested, get a bottle of Lee liquid Alox. That'd be the best.

[oksmle]

Been doing it for years. But there are restrictions. Search the archives for more info.... oksmle

[bushka]

I bought like 500 of some "dusted" bullets for 45acp,no leading.
May have been that Neco stuff.

local yokel claims he just sprays his cast with lyman supermoly and gets no leading.


What we need is an "eraser" wad

[jhrosier]

...
What we need is an "eraser" wad

Not as funny as it sounds,
When I usta shoot cast in my .357 Contender at sillywets, I would fire a half dozen .38Spl, loaded light with Hornady swaged full wadcutters after each match.
It removed the leading and left the bore shiny clean. :-D

BTW Throckmorton, I would blow 4 bucks on a bottle of LLA to coat the nekkid boolits.

Jack

[Down South]

I'd lube em with something. LLA comes to mind.

[georgewxxx]

I hate to say your wrong to Felix, but in case you are. A few years ago I run some tests and published the findings in the fouling shot during the years when I belonged to the only group where cast info was available. Later when we started putting the articles together that are now on CASTPICS, in my loading for the 257 Roberts, this is in there....

A number of years ago I was working on an old idea of shooting sized but un-lubed cast bullets. The idea was, that the lube was causing fliers, and just to see if it can be done. The first trials I did years ago were with 6.5 Swede bullets shooting at two different targets with both lubed and un-lubed bullets. In my 257 Roberts trial, I loaded up 50 rounds of 257325 sized and lubed and 20 grain BLc2, plus 50 rounds of the same load, but with un-lubed bullets. First I’d alternate shooting at two different targets, one lubed then one un-lubed. Then up to one lubed then two un-lubed. Once the barrel was fouled, I didn’t even want to run a brush through it. I continued to increase shooting the un-lubed bullets up to 25 at a time. Going at a fairly fast pace, the barrel was so hot, I couldn’t keep my hand on it. The muzzle was dry of course, and the bore was a light gray color. Groups of the un-lubed bullets where 2 1/4”, just a shade smaller than the lubed ones 2 ½”. With the residue from power and primer ash plus whatever lube is left in the bore from the previous shots, the barrel is coated enough so it doesn’t lead. I didn’t have a chronograph at the time, but I do now. After running that same load over the screens, a 1600 FPS came up

I'll just say one more thing, don't knock it and say it won't work if you haven't tried it yourself....Geo

[Throckmorton]

"BTW Throckmorton, I would blow 4 bucks on a bottle of LLA to coat the nekkid boolits."

Yep,I do believe we will do that.

just how do ya use that stuff?

[Jon K]

Yep, LLA would be the way to go, but is this something you have use for?
If you don't have a regular diet of these, I'd say melt um down, and make something you use regular............

Jon

[ben1025]

"BTW Throckmorton, I would blow 4 bucks on a bottle of LLA to coat the nekkid boolits."

Yep,I do believe we will do that.

just how do ya use that stuff?
I mix it around 50/50 with odorless paint thinner. Swish it around in a plastic container. If you don't think there's enough on the bullet do it again. Don't take much. ben1025 AKA ben.

[Lloyd Smale]

if a perfect world you might get away with it but i wouldnt bet the farm on it. it would take a perfect gun and a very knowlegable loader to insure everything was just right. Lubes were put on bullets many years ago and put on for a reason. they help!

[randyrat]

Johnson paste wax (JPW) will work just fine in this case. Just melt a little in a metal bowl and swirl your bullets in there cool for 2 minutes and load, the smell will go away when all the other stuff evaporates in the JPW. Thats if you don't want to wait for a bottle of LLA... I use Beeswax and JPW in 45 acp,sometimes just JPW,sometimes LLA...I mix and match and play around with it to find a nice accuracy load. I think ear wax(not enough to go around), oil of olay,facial cream(not economical to steal ity from the wife) will work in our applications 38s & 45s.

[Morgan Astorbilt]

This thread makes me wonder. What did the old buffalo hunters use for lube, if anything, when they dug the bullets out of the critters, and re melted them? Don't remember this being addressed in any literature on the subject.
Morgan

[imashooter2]

This thread makes me wonder. What did the old buffalo hunters use for lube, if anything, when they dug the bullets out of the critters, and re melted them? Don't remember this being addressed in any literature on the subject.
Morgan

No doubt tallow, with maybe some wax if they had it.

[mooman76]

According to "Lee" who did allot of tests on cast bullets you could without lube at low speeds.

[georgewxxx]

I think 1600 fps is close to max on those I've done. You guys speculating that it can't be done are just guessing. You ask what are the grooves there for? More than likely because back in the old days of shooting only black powder you had no option but to fill them with something that'll soften up the hard BP fouling. The grooves carried over to smokeless because that's the way it's always been done, unless a heeled boolit was used. Heeled boolits rarely go over 1700 fps. There lies your answer as to why you can shoot with minimal or no lubrication. A bit of powder & primer ash along with whatever is left from the previous shot. I've just tried it yesterday again on a 50-70 Springfield. I might sound like some crackpot to you, but I've shot everything from 218 Bee to the 50-70 without any lube and it can be done. In some cases like any load development you'll do better but most likely not. The better ones are almost always sized only and shot without anything in the grooves.

If your any kind of experimenter, you'll try it your self. None of you will load any cartridge from a book and know without targeting the gun that it's a keeper load. ...or do you?....Geo

[felix]

Geo, I have done it at various speeds, but not as a go-to load. No-lube boolits will clean barrels when lead is fairly soft and used as low-speed chaser rounds. If the boolit is composed of a tough alloy, you can easily increase speed if so desired. The major problem with lubed boolits is getting the lube/alloy (or no-lube versions) correct for the application. I agree, 1600 fps would not be out of the question for some bore/boolit flavors. ... felix

[joeb33050]

Norm Johnson has been shooting revolver bullets for years with no lube.
I had pretty good luck loading unlubed bullets in a M29 with cream of wheat over the powder, and have shot many rifles with COW and unlubed bullets.
All with bullets that are big enough.
Never dared to shoot unlubed bullets without that filler, yet. George has got me interested.
joe b.

[felix]

The requirement is not hard, but tough enough to hold together and not strip. It's the stripping that causes leading. High antimony, low tin alloys will cause leading at a very low speed. I doubt the swaging machines will make a hard boolit, so you'd be safe at the velocities you'd want to shoot. ... felix

[Throckmorton]

at the risk of some extra work cleaning the barrel....heck it's only a 4 incher...I've gotta try them with no lube ...just because.

thanks all.

[georgewxxx]

If your a bit apprehensive, try it like the first time I did. Fire a couple regular lubed one the one unlubed one at a separate target. Then continue using fewer lubed boolits until you found you can wean your gun from lube. Felix is right on using hard alloy. I use basically only WW in most all my tests. One of my first attempt was using a 257 Roberts with a unlubed but sized 257325 over 20gr BLc2 at about 1700fps. All you'll see at the muzzle is a bit of grey wash...not leading! 50 rds later the barrel was so hot you couldn't hang on to it with a bare hand. 10rd groups averaged 3.5". I'll admit that Remington 722 has shot better groups, but again like Felix said, it not going to be you go-to load, but it's sure fun doing something you not supposed to do! .......Geo

[dwtim]

I was shooting some .38 Special a few years ago when I noticed these colored lines on the target. Upon closer inspection I found it to be lube that had peeled away and stuck to the target. It looked pretty much intact in terms of size and volume. Leading was light. I conclude that with this caliber and pressure, the lube wasn't doing anything special.

[Tom W.]

I remember a number of years back when my buddy across the river told me to cast up a bunch of boolits for my .45 Colt gov't model, and he would moly coat them for me.."Naw, you won't have to lube them afterwards, the moly will take care of that.".... so I loaded up about 100 and headed to the range. After about 4 shots I was getting failure to feed problems, and after the 5th shot I dropped my mag and made sure the pistol was clear, and noticed what looked like silver spaghetti coming out of my bore. I went home and pulled bullets for some time.....Added LLA and tried again, with excellent results. Needless to say, it was a learning experience that won't be repeated.


I learned that some folk don't always know what is going on....

[MtGun44]

As far as the buffalo hunters, I have no idea what they used for lube, but
from all that I have read about hunting buffs with 45-70 and 50-70 and
up, you would fine precious few of the boolits, most are reporting thru and
thru with the big stompers, and even heavy boolit .45-70s.

Bill

[Bass Ackward]

Yep, you gotta try it. And it may just fit into your goals for that load.

What can be a kicker is that leading or washing loads can shoot very well. I have 22s that soot best that way.

That'll get you scratchin your head.

[Freightman]

Tried it quite by accident, cast a lot of .367 boolits 95g for my Makarov and jumped right into loading them. Had 200 loaded before I relised I hadn't lubed, tried to pull down and rather clean lead than that. So went to the range and shot all , surprise no lead, but realize 850/900fps isn't 1400 fps like a 44 mag or 357. never tried that "yet"

[BOOM BOOM]

Hi,
I Had A Friend Use Lyman Or Rcbs Case Sizing Lube Once In / On About 500 38's Once. At The Time I Thought He Was Crazy. Never Did Find Out If It Worked Though. And Wade Has Passed On Now.
Maybe It Did Work.

[Thor Bloodax]

I tried unlubed .38 spc in a Colt detective special. In a very few shots the bore was leaded horribly. I broke down the rest of the loads I had made until I could lube the bullets. Not worth the cleaning effort.

[copdills]

tag for more information, very interesting

[Thumbcocker]

I read somewhere that a lot of the old .45-70 boolits were lubed with tallow. I think this was in the Lyman cast boolit book but I'm not sure. No shortage of tallow if you get a buff down.