HOW to -diy -a simple HARDWOOD ball MOLD --for 8MM CAPLOCK PISTOL

[FLASHMAN]

Hi --
does anyone know how to make a simple lead ball mould --without fancy
equipment?
I live in the African backwoods --tried drilling hardwood /brass /cast iron /soapstone etc

but the 2 cup halves ---ARE---always out of alignment --pin guides on mould blocks are
extremely hard to align

result -crooked lead balls -- assymetrical overlapped ridges appear ---annoying
--2 years later --I gave up!

anyone got any ideas on hardwood drilling ---
I now drill lead slug moulds ---that are rough coneshaped missiles
slam sideways into targets ---
appreciate any sage advice

regards --- F

[bangerjim]

Hardwood will char at Pb pouring temps. Probably OK for a few pours, but after that, the cavity will start enlarge as the charcoal sluff off. That is why molds are made of metal that last for many pours and years.

If I were to attempt a "temporary" wooden mold, I would make it using ball end mills on my milling machine, aligning the cuts in the blocks with the digital DRO I use.....even in simple hardwood!

Good luck on your valiant attempts. Wood is definitely NOT my choice for making accurate, long-lasting molds. And with wood, being hygroscopic, the cavity sizes will shrink and swell as the humidity and temperature changes. For all the work you go to, you will get very few usable roundballs as the mold chars and enlarges over time. Brass and aluminum are the easiest metals to work.

Let us know of your progress. And welcome to the forum!!!!!!

bangerjim

[DerekP Houston]

Well, I have no experience but here is a thought.

My coworker casts stuff out of aluminum and I *know* there are molds made out of it. You can make a forge capable of melting aluminum with simple charcoal and a leafblower for forced air. make a wax mold of the size you want. Use a mix of sand and I forget to make a rough mold. Cast 2 identical sides, smooth out with whatever tools you have available.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-a-foundry-and-sand-cast-aluminum/

He's cast darth vader heads, dinosaurs, trinkets etc. The more practice the better they look. Worth a look perhaps? He also scrapped copper from an old AC unit coil and melted that in the same setup, though we had to add an oxygen tank to increase the temperature. redneck engineering at its finest.

[jimkim]

I wouldn't use wood. Soapstone may work. Steel, brass, or aluminium would be best. I'd use a ball endmill to make each half of the cavity. I would use a ball bearing the same diameter I was going for to line the halves up. I'd put it in the cavity, and clamp it together. Then I'd drill the holes for the alignment pins through both halves. Then, I would drive the pins in. Once I did that I would remove the clamp and finish machining the two halves so they were square. If I was using steel, brass, or aluminium, I'd use a flycutter to square it. Once it is square, you can mill the top down and attach the sprue plate. I hope this helps. Another option is to do the same thing with wood, and cast round balls from wax, then use the wax round balls in a sand cast. It would be a lot of work, but I guess it's better than nothing.

Sent from my VS880 using Tapatalk

[FLASHMAN]

Many thanks to all who gave me such great advice--
-----sadly a pensioner--living in the backwoods -----no access to a lathe or milling machine here

The hardwood is extremely hard --called iron wood --hard as aircraft alum alloy or brass
these drilled moulds have cast hundreds of crude slugs --without even 2 thou diameter change

boggles the mind --but brass and cast iron /al alloy are far better

only --the real snag is
the 2 halves of a sphere --moulded or drilled or cast separately --even in plaster/paris

do not "come together " perfectly " --unless one has superhuman x ray vision-
so I painted each half with thick black paint --
pinned each half of a block of hardwood together with guide dowels-for repeated alignment

still --no round ball can be cast --always offset --

those fancy Lee or Lyman moulds shown in track of the wolf catalog I was sent from Viginia
by a very kind gunmaker --are rather complex ---

best I give up ---keep getting tumbling slugs --
but one theory is ---too short a barrel !

these cone shaped /bullet shaped slugs --DO NOT TUMBLE sideways in a 50 cal
36 inch barrel long rifle I made last year --
so obviously --the smaller unstable lead cylinders ---fired out of a smooth bore 10 inch barrel
have no rifling to stabilize /create spin--

these small missiles failed in accuracy --that's why a ROUND BALL is essential in a short barrel
--I think --as I am no expert on black powder /cap lock muzzle loaders
I will keep on experimenting /learning from boffins here --

most grateful foe all the great ideas
regards Flashman

[44man]

Might do some research about the old PA rifle makers. None of the barrels came out the same so they would finish a rifle and make a mold in a vise with a hand drill, one of the old ones, looked like a crank, brace and bit, they were called. They172922 cut the cherry by hand too.
I would think if you put real long alignment pins in first so they held the blocks as you closed them over a cutter, then change to short ones after, you might do it.
I made a gang mold for fishing jigs out of aluminum by hand and they came out round but can't remember how, I think I was 12 at the time. Biggest job was cutting to set hooks in the blocks. I still have the mold. The fork holds the end closed tight.

[rancher1913]

you might try rolling the balls between two ceramic tiles, it works for removing the sprew marks so maybe it will work to correct the out of round problem, may need to cast oversize and then work them down to right size.

[cold1]

Here is a vid on the use of "cut lead wire" during the Prussian war (?). It seems to work moderately well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwhmk-4bDS4

[DerekP Houston]

Bump to the top for the op.

[RU shooter]

How about not dealing with a split cavity mould and just make a simple drilled hole in the wood or whatever material you plan on using . I don't know exactly what caliber your shooting but let's say it's 50 cal. If you would take the proper dia drill bit and simply drill a shallow hole say the same depth as your dia. You should be able to just turn it over and give it a good smack and the casting should fall free . You would get a conical about like the hornady PA conical or the old buffalo "ballets" wouldn't have the hollow base of course but would be round . If it's undersized you could patch for snug fit , Ive shot patched up 45 caliber cast pistol bullets in 50 cal rifle (about the same shape) with enough accuracy at 50 yd to kill a deer .

[country gent]

One way tht may help you with just the drill press is to maintain the "alighnment of the cavities perfectly. This is hard to do with a drill press. I would make a little jig up. Same size as blocks with the alighnment pin holes and cavities sized holes drilled from 1/4"-1/2" thick cold rolled steel. In use you clamp it to the blocks and drill the alighnment pin holes ( I owuld perder 3 in softer materials) and pin the plate to the blockthen with a ball cutter drill thru the plate to depth. repeat on other block with oposite face of jig against it. This maintains the alighnment and locations much easier and acurately. The jig will be left and right sides. Maintining the same top and back edge. In use done right you could make a 4 cavity mould with cavites top and bottom of the blocks. The jig will locate the cavities from the alighnment pins same as the blocks together. If your drill press is square and true this should do what you want

[Wayne Smith]

I think it would be very useful for you to tell us exactly what tools you have available and which ones you might be able to get, borrow, or use.

[Texantothecore]

Try this:

Place a ball bearing between two blocks of wood.
Place in vice or press and press until the blocks meet. Drill sprue channel.

This may also work with soft iron or soft aluminum. Iirc that is how they used to make round ball molds.

Good luck.

[Texantothecore]

Here is a vid on the use of "cut lead wire" during the Prussian war (?). It seems to work moderately well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwhmk-4bDS4
Boy was that an interesting video. Read the comments too.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

SNIP...
does anyone know how to make a simple lead ball mould --without fancy
equipment?

F,
I'm not sure what you have for tools?
but this video may give you some hints/tips/tricks to make a RB mold
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkh1fv5QgkM

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Buying a Lee mould is probably worthwhile, so it sounds as if this could be a legal problem, importing reloading equipment. If that is all, it might be possible to find a reasonably close size in ball mould or ball lead among fishing equipment on eBay. They have holes to insert a wire and cast a hole in the ball, but shorter wires could be used instead, and even the hold dn't he harmful when there is a wad behind the ball. Fishing weight moulds are usually aluminium, and I think Texantothecore's ball bearing idea would work for slight enlargement, such as ⅜in. to 10mm., 12mm. to ½in., 15mm. to ⅝in. etc. You can find a garage with a powerful hydraulic press just about anywhere nowadays.

I know there are some pretty amazing woods in Africa, and ironwood might be better known to us if it was easier to cut up in commercial quantities.

I'll assume your problem is in getting the two hemispherical mould halves lined up in the first place, but you can get the mould halves arranged so that they will keep whatever alignment they started out with. A couple of locating pins would help with this. Then make the hole oversize and line it with fireclay or fire cement. Fireclay is smoother if you can get it, but one of these should be available anywhere they use coal or wood fires or brick barbecues, and I believe they have applications in central heating as well.

[Texantothecore]

Balistics, that technique might be quite good. Most machine shops and mechanics shops have a press which will do the job.

[17nut]

Find/buy a steel ball that is your size (ebay).

Take 2 pieces of alu and clamp them together, drill for alignment pins.
They can be through pins, no need for fancy for them to work!
Sharpen a drill bit so it is roughly circular at the tip and drill just short of the finished deapth.
Put the steel ball in the cavities and clamp the mould halves in a press until there are no airgap between them.
Now you have a perfect cavity for your lead balls.

Crude doesnt mean bad!
This oddjob i got many years ago.
The man who did it made the sprueplate work on both sides and it casts fine bullets.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Til%20andre/R0012296_zps7n3rjgxe.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/user/Chickenthief/media/Skydning/Til%20andre/R0012296_zps7n3rjgxe.jpg.html)
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Til%20andre/R0012297_zpstth37cxe.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/user/Chickenthief/media/Skydning/Til%20andre/R0012297_zpstth37cxe.jpg.html)
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Til%20andre/R0012298_zpsvxohq2jj.jpg (http://s295.photobucket.com/user/Chickenthief/media/Skydning/Til%20andre/R0012298_zpsvxohq2jj.jpg.html)

[Texantothecore]

I saw a reference to soft aluminum having a bhn of 23.

[FLASHMAN]

Wow ---so much feedback& great ideas--!!
mindboggling variety of methods!-Very grateful for everyone,s input ,ideas /replies

never expected such a wealth of knowledge !

Now -back to the grindstone --got to find soft aluminium scrap
and 7.5 MM DIAM STEEL BALL BEARINGS !( I have access to a 5 ton hyd press)
or try many other brilliant recipes ----
( the hardwood slugs I made last year --holes drilled in Ironwood --
made superb conical 50 cal rough slugs --that DID NOT TUMBLE from a 36 inch home made barrel
--great accuracy from a 1960-Landrover steering shaft --hand drilled to 1/2 inch bore--

sounds awful to purists --but its never failed --percussion cap /powder drum /lock mechanism
all built from scratch with simple tools---
( was helped by a Virginia master gunsmith with tempering /casehardening
forging techniques)

but that round ball mould is now possible --to avoid tumblers from the 8 mm /10 inch-pistol
barrel ---
so much to get cracking with --
most grateful for all the expertise --advice & tremendous help

regards Flashman--( special thanks to OMEGA )
Finally retrieved my posts and replies ! gracias !

[Texantothecore]

I would try to press the ball mould cold. If it doesn't work, try heating the two blocks before pressing. That might work as metals can be very ductile at temperatures that are low enough that it would surprise you. If there is a college that has a metallurgist professor be may be able to give you some insight on sources and process.

If you do it successfully please right it up on this forum, we would love to see how it is done.

[Texantothecore]

The professor may also have a press that will curl your hair which could be helpful.

[Texantothecore]

Wikipedia shows a bhn of 15 for aluminum should be perfect for your press.

Copper might also be useful. Bhn of 35, but very ductile.

[FLASHMAN]

Wow ---that's a brilliant idea!! -drill-shallowstarter holes to --to lock the 7 .6 mm ball bearing in place
That I never thought of ---many thanks--

by the way --those fotos are superb ---and you say its rough cast moulds?
scary --I thought they were done by commercial machinists--like LYMAN

M y drilled teak wood moulds are awfully crude --they are not all same depth
but the 1/2 inch cylindrical cone shaped missiles --shattered a condemned steers skull /pole-axed --
@ 20 metres-----80 grains home made BP from a totally DIY cap lock rifle ---smooth bore
not a masterpiece --but its solid & safe --weighs twice what my 375 H& H Bolt action does
slug weighs 400 grains ---
not accurate long range ---but its the result of 2 years sweat ---many stupid mistakes --b4 it came right

now I have so many ideas ---got to get this mould to give me a nice round lead ball
trial & error--worth the effort
many thanks
F

[FLASHMAN]

Thanks Texan ----
will post fotos

great idea --heat the pure aluminium b4 pressing !

all fotos will be posted soon --you will see the backwoods workshop/ mess & tools I have -
but its great to try new ideas ---challenging
most grateful ---
almost got one symmetrical wooden ball mould made last year
the resin in this hardwood probable prevents the scorching by molten lead --no trace of burning wood anywhere in 2 years
just the wood eventually cracks-- or thedowel pins misalign sometimes ---come loose

aluminium is the way now ---

[Texantothecore]

I went down some interesting tracks on this project. It appears that pottery clay might work but it would be a lot of work at first.

[country gent]

Pressing the steel bearing into the cavity to finish does work and does work. But you need the rough cavity close to size since the bearing is not just compressing material but displacing it. To much and force goes way up and blocks tend to warp from the metal moving. Lee finished some moulds years ago like this. a hardened form was pressed between the block in a big press to give finish and size. The rough cavities would need to be alighned very close for this since the cavities more than likely will over ride the bearings and alighnment pins.

[FLASHMAN]

wow ! --that utube video ! amazing technique

watched it mesmerised over & over --
tried 4 times but never got it right spot on round ball --
reason ---
the video shows him drilling the holes with a modified drill into aluminium ---ok
BUT HOW to control OVER DEPTH DRILLING ??
NO MARK OR STOP washer /depth gauge on the drill --
SLIGHTLY TOO DEEP OR SHALLOW
gives same old problem --misshapen lead ball --off round /crooked

just got to practise accurate depth drilling --at least alighnment /pin location of both halves appears
spot on
but depth is the issue --never will each hole be identical ---unless u have x ray vision
I gave up ----this is bit too hit & miss ---a perfect symmetrical round ball 8mm diam all round is very hard to achieve-- very tricky !
anyone know how to drill each half hole ==to a precisely controlled DEPTH??
appreciate ANY ideas
flashman

[country gent]

One is to use the depth stop on the drill press if it has one. A stop collar on the cutter at the correct depth will work also. Another neat way is cut a piece of tubing to fit the shank and of a length to go from drill chuck to depth reqired. A little tape to make it snug and hold cutter at depth chuck with tube snug against chuck jaws and the other end of tube will hit the work stopping the cut at depth.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I think most of the magic comes from using the center drill.
then it's just a matter of being very careful to not over drill...drill a bit, check with depth guage...drill a bit more, check with depth guage...repeat...repeat...repeat.

[Walter Laich]

If you press the ball into the aluminum first (along with the drillings and all) then drill alignment holes and put the pins in couldn't you then finish the outside so everything would be even?
use belt sander to made all 6 sides flat
just thinking what I have here in the garage to do something like this

[FLASHMAN]

Thanks for all those recent ideas --different approaches to depth drilling
I like the collar distance limiter idea --

how to grind a twist drill tip--7.5 mm ---to a semi circle half round tip-/cutting end---is really tricky--
and not having a pillar /post--drill control adds to the inaccuracy --

best is to stick to the old crude drill hole---for casting "slugs "
till I can get hold of a fancy Lee OR Lyman commercial ball mould
but ---will keep trying --never give up--

appreciate all those great ideas ----something has to work ---( track of the wolf blows is intimidating)
all those amazing--moulds--fotos ---dream on --

[FLASHMAN]

Thankyou Walter -
sounds like its worth a go ----just don't have nice hi-tech machinery

no pedestal or fancy drill post --just hand held B&D drill
but medieaval dudes had nothing ----so must keep on trying to drill a half round hole
in each alum block --precisely 4.25 mm deep !!
pROBLEM is grinding the 7.5 mm drill tip ---to half round --
that's where the inaccuracy starts ----

oh well ---practise makes perfect ---will plod on !
appreciate the ideas --
Flashman

[FLASHMAN]

Thankyou country gent --

its looking better --crushing that steel ball with a 5 ton press does get a warped hole of sorts

cast a lead ball --looks pitted --like a mini golf ball ---lead flashing around joint like Saturn rings
but its a symmetrical ball ---slightly oval -by 10 thou

will try again ---this method needs a lot of concentration thinking ---the aluminium
is distorting under 2 tons ---pressure --but its getting better --much better than those ugly lead slugs I made last year ---now how to smooth a pitted lead ball --roll between plates ?--ok ---
many thanks ---F

[JSnover]

Since you're not necessarily looking for space shuttle precision, you may not need to worry too much about drilling a hair too deep. Just dress the face a little, assuming you can keep it flat and smooth so it will still close.
You might get some flash but if it's not too bad, maybe turn the cold RB ninety degrees in the cavity and press the blocks together to iron things out.

[Kestrel4k]

Hello Flashman,
I have a .PDF scan of a 34-pg historical pamphlet on "Rifle Making in the Great Smoky Mountains'.
It details the older techniques of hand-built muzzleloading rifles, and includes a small bit on making moulds as well. It might perhaps be of some interest to you - it sounds as though you've got some interesting rifle building experience, which this might relate to. I would be happy to e-mail it to you if you can PM me an e-mail address. (Any body else, feel free to PM me as well.)
Best regards,

[FLASHMAN]

So grateful Kestrel -
that sounds fascinating ---
I feel ashamed - I-saw perfectly SPHERICAL musket /cannon balls in the a Imperial war museum --London
and they were hand made cast iron or lead ---( I assume) 250 yrs ago --- with primitive tools !~!
so hope I can poach some of those secret methods--? --I am hopeless -
( AS a kid ---watched Zambian poachers in 1960 ---painstakingly hammer a lead fishing weight --
into a half inch lead ball !!) for their Portuguese flintlocks ---amazing patience!

my email is
carlwinter0@ gmail.com
love ancient technology---!

[FLASHMAN]

Thanks Derek
I have a clay forge I made caplock spring /hammer & many parts with --
but what type of cup" or crucible metal is the aluminium offcuts ----made from ?
obviously higher melting point than aluminium ---
how long or hot does it take in a BUSH diy bellows fed forge ---to melt AL?
Got to try this to cast blocks ---robust enuf to support/crush a 7.6 mm steel ball bearing
into the 2 halves
will have a go at this
thanks - Flashman

[Cap'n Morgan]

Mold making by pressing a hardened steel part into a soft steel block has been used well into the sixties for making molds for various stuff like hard candy and zinc cast toy cars. The female part was typically made as a low-carbon steel blank, held in a rigid fixture to prevent the outside of the blank to deform. The forming was done in multiple steps with the material sometimes being normalized by tempering in between. Also, the material raised by the process was removed. The process created a very smooth and compact surface.

Today, well... let's just say things are done differently. With modern CNC equipment molds can be milled directly in hardened steel and with an almost mirror-like surface.

[FLASHMAN]

Thanks Bangerjim---wow -please post a foto of "ball end mills "?love to see how they look /work on a milling machine ---never seen one --or a PC controlled milling machine 1
I have a friend who owns a machine engineering outfit
maybe he can bore a symmetrical ball mould for me --as I have given up trying to crush a ball bearing
into allumin blocks ----& IRONwood ---
probably best way to exorcise this complicated process!---I am simply hopeless !
regards
Flashman

[Kestrel4k]

So grateful Kestrel - that sounds fascinating - [...] love ancient technology---!
I've e-mailed you (plus others who've PM'd me) the .PDF. If anybody doesn't receive it, feel free to PM me again.
Best of luck

[FLASHMAN]

HI --seem to have lost that PDF -- you mailed me
tried to save /download the instruction historical book ---

trying to find where its filed /saved is a riddle only PC nerds can figure

will keep searching --apologies ---novice --
can you email it again ?
no luck ---Flashman-
(started reading it -fascinating ---tried to save a PDF but no idea how --now its gone !

[Kestrel4k]

HI --seem to have lost that PDF -- you mailed me
tried to save /download the instruction historical book ---

trying to find where its filed /saved is a riddle only PC nerds can figure

will keep searching --apologies ---novice --
can you email it again ?
no luck ---Flashman-
(started reading it -fascinating ---tried to save a PDF but no idea how --now its gone !
If someone else could FW my e-mail to Flashman, that would be nice - I am not at my e-mail system currently.
I understand tho; I always /save attachment - to desktop/ directly from the e-mail as Windows can have pretty odd default save locations.

[MARCORVET]

pROBLEM is grinding the 7.5 mm drill tip ---to half round --
that's where the inaccuracy starts ----

If your drill is reversible, clamp it to a table, run it in reverse an use a file to shape the drill bit.