Beginner

[TxHunter214]

Hello everyone. I'm new to the forum so i wanted to dive right in with a question. I just got a marlin 1895g in 45/70 and have decided I'm going to cast for it. There's a lot of info, also too much, floating around so I was hoping to see if anyone could help narrow the scope a little bit. I'm looking at casting btwn 300 and 405 gn with IMR4198 which Ive read is good. Is there a good middle ground btwn recoil, hunting capiblities, and cost effectiveness. Also thinking about porting the muzzle, adding xs sights and rail system, and possibly a scout scope...broad range there I know but any advise or tips are welcome. Or just any comments in general. Thanks everyone!

[shredder]

Is there a good middle ground btwn recoil, hunting capiblities, and cost effectiveness.

Yes. The full power loads for 45-70 will certainly test your shoulder. Also not necessary for most game like deer. 1200fps will shoot endwise straight through a buffalo. You will likely find these original velocities entirely adequate for normal hunting use. There are many boolits designed for the 45-70, but I have had best luck with a 405 grain flat nose design.

Skip the porting, the noise level goes up so much you will have some major hearing damage if you ever shoot it unprotected. In fact I got the 24 inch barrel not for velocity, but to put the blast farther away from my ears.

[TxHunter214]

The 45/70 is going to be so different than loading for my 308...I used to try to push bullets past 3k fps...when I see 1.2k fps, my initial reaction is "that's so slow" lol...obviously mass plays a huge role here where I was relying on velocity before

[fredj338]

I have an early ported version, shoots well, factory 300gr jhp are comfy. I run a 350gr +/-@ 1550fps, easy shooting with the ported bbl. I want to try this bullet with a little harder alloy & coated. Should make a great 150yd hog or deer load.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/DSC_0041.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/fredj338/media/DSC_0041.jpg.html)

[tsubaki]

I'd go the 405gr route and experiment till you get to a velocity you like.

I played for several years with 300gr jacketed stuff up to 2100fps and still wasn't as satisfied as to what the lowly 405gr Remington Express at 1300fps could do.

My next mold purchase will likely be a 405gr and work on the velocity.

Don't port it.

[Mk42gunner]

What are you planning to hunt? Boolit selection can make a big difference, there are designs that are suitable for your local deer but would fail miserably on anything larger.

I would not port the barrel, I have enough hearing damage already. I like XS sights, but am not all that enamored of scout scopes.

Realistically, a .45-70 with BP ballistics can kill anything on this continent; higher velocity does help with flattening trajectory. I would start with loads in the Trapdoor section and work my way up to the Marlin section, looking for accuracy and comfortable recoil.

Robert

[Half Dog]

Always a good day when I meet someone. You are at the right place to ask questions. The members have helped me quite a bit.

[waco]

I run an Accurate 46-405-V through my 1895 Marlin. http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-405V-D.png

Sized to .460" and lubed with BAC and seated over 42.0gr of IMR3031 it puts five rounds into one ragged hole at 50 yards all day long.

[Walter Laich]

I have an early ported version, shoots well, factory 300gr jhp are comfy. I run a 350gr +/-@ 1550fps, easy shooting with the ported bbl. I want to try this bullet with a little harder alloy & coated. Should make a great 150yd hog or deer load.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/DSC_0041.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/fredj338/media/DSC_0041.jpg.html)

That would be a great round to use on our Texas Squirrels--some of them have a real attitude :razz:

[Wayne Smith]

Lyman 457122 Gould HP run between 1300fps and 1500fps is just what you are asking for. Generally runs 330gr acww. My best friend and his son both shoot it out of a Marlin, love it, and the only cast boolit the son will shoot!

[LakeviewBulldog]

I am also looking at getting a rifle similar to this. One question I have is, is powder coating the boolit going to be enough lubrication for that cartridge? Also, should I look at a gas checked or non gas checked boolit? Look forward to the answers.

[44man]

Really nothing needed over 300 to 350 gr. if you want to keep recoil down and high velocity is not needed either. 3031 will give a decent and very accurate load with less recoil then 4198.
There is a reason the grand old caliber is still with us.
Even going to my 500 gr gov't boolit in an original roller with 3031 cut recoil near in half over a 405 gr with 4198. I have NOT had any luck with Unique loads. A powder worth a try is Varget and someday I will try it.
But welcome to the madhouse, we are all a little off, mostly me! :bigsmyl2:
No need for a GC on any boolit.

[44man]

I have not tried PC and good results are always posted. Just that I love Felix lube for everything. I hate anything with Alox and some of my revolvers and rifles have not seen a patch in 3 years. I don't think TL is good enough and I even use Felix on TL boolits.
Don't use a hard lube, LBT soft Blue is also good.

[Wayne Smith]

457122 and the 457125 (500+ gr Government) are plain based boolits. No need for a gas check until you are looking at velocities north of 1600fps and WDWW boolit hardness.

In fact, I don't own a 45 caliber gas checked mold! Rifle or pistol. They are simply not necessary. A full case of black and the 457125 hurts on both ends of a Trapdoor.

[EDK]

Porting won't win friends and influence people (positively!) on the firing line. Get a butt stock recoil reducer if necessary.
Look at NOE moulds for a 350 grain RANCH DOG or variation with standard lube grooves, preferably with plain base and gas check cavities. I have to get back to 45/70 with the 350 grain plain base mould I cast but didn't load many. ACCURATE 5744 worked great in 30/30 and 45/70 lower end target/plinking rounds, but it's a bit hard to find and definitely not cheap.

[Mitch]

TxHunter214.welcome to cast boolits

the 45/70 is a fun round to play with.no need for gas checks.i would go with the old standby 405 gr boolit.and like said above try some different speeds and see what works for you.I have a kickkiller lace on but pad and a limb saver airtech but pad both work very well on my 1874 sharps shooting holy black and 500+ gr boolits.I have only been playing with the 45/70 for a short time and see that it is an awesome cartrage.Like said above it can be nasty as can be on both ends.the big boolits would be way overkill on deer,unless you want instant burger

[fredj338]

Lyman 457122 Gould HP run between 1300fps and 1500fps is just what you are asking for. Generally runs 330gr acww. My best friend and his son both shoot it out of a Marlin, love it, and the only cast boolit the son will shoot!

That is the bullet in my pic but with the HP redesigned as a cup point. As noted, about 350gr, ideal weight IMO for vel vs recoil. I am also a fan of 3031 for full power loads.

[Taylor]

172675
This is were I'm at.The coal is too long,so it chambers a little hard.I have some worked up with a shorter coal,but haven't tried them yet.Iron sights as it came from the store.
172676

I sure was glad when I ran out of ammo on this one.:holysheep

[44man]

My 12# Browning can make you sit up and take notice something happened! The Holy black can add blue to your shoulder right fast.

[dverna]

Really nothing needed over 300 to 350 gr. if you want to keep recoil down and high velocity is not needed either. 3031 will give a decent and very accurate load with less recoil then 4198.
There is a reason the grand old caliber is still with us.
Even going to my 500 gr gov't boolit in an original roller with 3031 cut recoil near in half over a 405 gr with 4198. I have NOT had any luck with Unique loads. A powder worth a try is Varget and someday I will try it.
But welcome to the madhouse, we are all a little off, mostly me! :bigsmyl2:
No need for a GC on any boolit.


This is a common misconception. Recoil is not significantly affected by which powder you use. It is dependent on bullet weight, velocity, the amount of powder and the mass of the rifle.

If your bullet weighs 350 gr and the powder charge is say 45 grains using 4198 you will get a slight increase in recoil by going to 3031 and using say 50+ grains to get the same velocity. The more mass (powder and bullet) you drive, the higher the recoil - but is not significant - especially with heavy bullets.

Look up the formula for recoil. Some people "think" the recoil is less using some powders but at times it could be a reaction to muzzle blast. Physics is physics.

To reduce recoil, lower bullet mass, and/or velocity and/or increase rifle weight. Adding a scope will help as it adds mass - so will adding lead to the stock. Porting will helps because the gases are diverted. I have a ported .300 mag and it works very well, but it is so loud that it is unpleasant to shoot. I would never port a rifle again.

Don

[murf205]

Welcome to the madhouse. Greatest group of people you'll find anywhere and more than willing to help. Sights--I added rear peep and front made by Skinner sights of Montana and had really good luck with them. I didn't want to scope my 1895 Cowboy and being 68 yrs old, I needed something better than factory Buckhorn sights. Boolits--keep then in the 1400-1500 fps range(or even less) and they will shoot through a Buick. One of the best things about this old cartridge is you don't have to drive it to the max to get performance. Powder--hard to go wrong with 3031 or 4198. I have had good luck with 2015 Accurate. I bought a 4 cavity mold from Accurate and Tom cut 2 405gr cavities for PB and 2 for GC. I can't tell the difference between accuracy with either. Buckshot, one of our moderators, made a .459 push through sizer for me and it is a thing of beauty, especially if you decide to powder coat in the future. I use Carnuba(sp) Red lube and the bore of my Marlin has never leaded, nor has it when powder coating. Good luck and don't hesitate to ask any questions, lots of very knowledgeable casters and shooters here.

[44man]

It really is depending on where the powder peaks and how much push is added after peak.
I can tell you the 405 gr with 4198 beat us bad and I was afraid to pull the trigger on the 500 gr boolits with 3031 but they were pleasant and stopped beating our cheeks and shoulders.
Yes, powder can alter recoil.
Powder weight does add to total weight pushed but is minimal in the end. It is how and where the powder burns. A heavy boolit accelerated over distance can recoil less then a lighter one punched right now.

[Iowa Fox]

Welcome to the group. The 45-70 and cast go together like bread and butter. I have 2 45-70s, a Marlin CB and a 24" Encore. I think there are 4 molds for it around here but my hands down favorite is a old 456192 Lyman that I size to 460 using a Buckshot die. Where they got the 456 on that mold I'll never know as it drops air cooled WW at .4625 to .463, I think it was for one of the old Winchester lever guns maybe. Both are pretty light rifles as I shoot both with the factory sights they came with, I use a Unique load that gives just under 1200 FPS. Its all I need, accuracy is good, recoil mild.