Velocity of hunting rounds

[Zombie1978]

What velocity does your hunting rounds run? I'm trying to set up some deer hunting rounds and need to know what to shoot for. I have heard anywhere from 1200 to 2300 but just don't know. I'm going to try and push as fast as I can accurately just trying to get a minium.

[ammohead]

I'm going to try and push as fast as I can accurately

You answered your own question. Then stay within a range that you and your sights are dead sure at.

[quilbilly]

You need to tell us what caliber and boolit you are shooting and how far you can shoot accurately. it is all about terminal velocity, not muzzle velocity. For instance, a 429 cal 260 gr SWC will do just fine for deer at 900 FPS terminal velocity while IMO a 6mm 100 gr CB needs to be going at a minimum terminal velocity of 1800 FPS. You want to shoot something you enjoy practicing with as well so you can practice all the time so that may preclude a 338 WM with a full house load and a 220 gr projectile in a 6# rifle.

[Zombie1978]

I'm shooting a Marlin 336 30/30 with a GT bullets 150 grain hollow point. I am shooting 1 to 1.5 in groups at 50 yards. I know the gun can do better as it has with jacketed bullets. I'm also using a scope so that helps alot. I usually get 3 to 4 touching shots and a flyer.

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[Fenring]

44 Mag, Lyman Devastator 275gr, @ 1650fps.

Lee 310gr flat nose @1500fps.

Ruger 96/44 lever action rifle.

[44man]

Velocity won't matter a whole lot as long as you are accurate enough. Most important is the boolit.
I have not shot any deer with mine yet and shoot WD, WW boolits that I think are too hard. When I decide to hunt with it I am going to cast softer noses.
I get around 1900 fps and it is very accurate at 100. I use 3031, 4895 and Varget.
I have the Lyman boolit and two home made molds of 187 and 193 gr. I like the 187 best.
I size .311" with a bore ride of .301".
I found the Marlin shoots best with my hand under the forearm on the bag but is hellish to hold still. I have had 1/2" down to 3/16" at 100 but play the devil's advocate to keep it up. If I told you I can do it on demand, bring a big stick! :bigsmyl2:

[shredder]

I have been mighty impressed with a .50 cal lead slug leaving the barrel at a paltry 1375fps. When that hits deer hide, things stop happening quickly. Prior to the 1890s, 1000fps ( + or - ) with a heavy lead slug brought down the largest herds of wild animals the earth has ever known. Bison hunters and african hunters did not care much about velocity, but rather bullet shape and weight.

[zgunbear]

In my 45-70 double 405 grain at 1425 fps

[quilbilly]

A few years back I did a terminal ballistics test on my 30/30 at 40 yards, a 160 gr RNGC boolit with a slight meplat making it safe for the tube magazine, and at a muzzle velocity of 1550 fps. The medium was that soaked, compressed phone books mentioned above. That boolit got 18" of penetration and began tumbling at 9" creating the most viscous wound channel of all the calibers I have tested. When a boolit does that at 40 yards, IMO it is good to at least 150 yards on deer. FYI - I do all of my deer hunting with a muzzleloader because I love the local seasons and use a 45 with a 130 gr. patched round ball. The round ball doesn't have nearly the terminal ballistics of that 30/30 boolit but all those deer that have graced my freezer fell right over anyway.
In other words, stick with what you have already. Shoot lots at paper and tin cans at unknown distances offhand and you will be good to go.

[runfiverun]

velocity only helps over distance.
all your doing is changing the striking velocity window for the alloy your using.

going with a 1/2 and 1/2 ww and something close to soft lead and water dropping or just plain old ww's with a little tin will both react pretty close to the same on a game animal.
if the velocity is in the 17-1900 fps area at impact.
change the striking velocity upwards and the softer [water dropped] higher bhn alloy will maybe/probably shoot more accurately.
but it will also mushroom faster, and have more integrity [malleability]
wind things up too quickly and you have too much energy transfer to the surface of the nose and that will cause shallower more devastating wounds to the animal.
change the alloy to a more internally balanced higher strength alloy and you control that transfer better [delay it] and move it further inside the animal.
go too far off balance and you have the opposite effect where no/too little energy transfer is incurred nor any boolit upset occurs and you get 'the FMJ effect'.

to see repeated and tested results with your rifle.
I'd shoot for about 1900 fps.
go with a flat nose.
size to 311.
use a boolit from 150-180grs.
mix some ww alloy with a little soft lead and have a total tin content near 1%.

then I'd do some testing shoot a water jug with some wet paper in front of and behind it.
shoot a cow bone in front of a milk jug and a phone book or two with another jug behind it at the distance you plan on using the rifle.
you may or may not get to look at the boolit itself but you can look at the penetration and see how the holes in the paper look.
you can also adjust things by increasing/decreasing the striking/muzzle velocity.

[tdoyka]

i use a 165gr ranch dog( .311" ) with coww(about 12bhn) in my 30-40 krag. it goes roughly 1800fps. i never took it over 1800fps because i was real happy with accuracy. 25.5gr of h4198 gets me groups of 1 1/4- 1 3/4" at 100 yards(no scope, just open sights). i take it deer hunting and it does kill a deer. i'm still a neophyte cast booliteer, but 1800-1900fps seems to be just about right for any 30 caliber for deer.

[44man]

Good observations. It will help me too since I have not used the 30-30 for deer yet. Maybe this season.

[sixshot]

44man, as many deer as you've killed & you've never used the good old thutty-thutty, how can that be?

Dick

[runfiverun]

Jim ain't had it all that long.

[HangFireW8]

I'm shooting a Marlin 336 30/30 with a GT bullets 150 grain hollow point. I am shooting 1 to 1.5 in groups at 50 yards. I know the gun can do better as it has with jacketed bullets. I'm also using a scope so that helps alot. I usually get 3 to 4 touching shots and a flyer.

Are you checking your loaded rounds for runout? Segregating the eccentric ones might solve that flyer problem.

[44man]

Are you checking your loaded rounds for runout? Segregating the eccentric ones might solve that flyer problem.
YES, the 30-30 is notorious for run out. I had to neck turn my brass to get from .022" down to .002" and zero. Just enough to make brass the same thickness all around.
Roll a round on the bench and see the wobble. You need to get rid of it. Once you turn you need to shoot the brass to form it. Then you will see a difference.
Next size only enough to close the lever all the way without setting the shoulder back more then needed. Trim if needed.
Some say BR techniques are useless for hunting guns but IT IS NOT TRUE.

[44man]

44man, as many deer as you've killed & you've never used the good old thutty-thutty, how can that be?

Dick
Yes, new gun but it takes more thinking since I mostly use revolvers. My head in my hand at the bench is how I have made things work.

[HangFireW8]

YES, the 30-30 is notorious for run out. I had to neck turn my brass to get from .022" down to .002" and zero. Just enough to make brass the same thickness all around.
Roll a round on the bench and see the wobble. You need to get rid of it. Once you turn you need to shoot the brass to form it. Then you will see a difference.
Next size only enough to close the lever all the way without setting the shoulder back more then needed. Trim if needed.
Some say BR techniques are useless for hunting guns but IT IS NOT TRUE.

I've been fortunate, that all I have to do to straighten out my 30/30 brass is to shoot it with a full pressure load. Unique will do as long as it gets up around 35K psi.

Keeping it concentric, though, requires all the same careful loading as any cartridge, and then some, as the necks are long and the brass is thin.

[siamese4570]

For what it's worth, I shoot a 330 gould HP in my 45-70 at 1300fps. this is cast from soww(soft) lead. I shoot the LEE 170 grain boolit in my 30-30 at about 1800 fps (cast from straight ww). Both work.
siamese4570

[Digital Dan]

The load doesn't matter much if you can put the bullet where it needs to go. CB shorts will kill a hog stone dead...anything above and beyond is gravy.

[Frank V]

In my 45-70 double 405 grain at 1425 fps


Welcome to the forum. Don't want to hi jack a thread, could you let us know a bit more about your double .45-70. The .45-70 is one of my favorite ctgs. Maybe we could go to the '' thread killer" thread in humor/off topic?
Thanks.

[dubber123]

I'm shooting a Marlin 336 30/30 with a GT bullets 150 grain hollow point. I am shooting 1 to 1.5 in groups at 50 yards. I know the gun can do better as it has with jacketed bullets. I'm also using a scope so that helps alot. I usually get 3 to 4 touching shots and a flyer


What checks are you using? I made the mistake of using some older Lyman slip on checks, and would commonly get 4 in .4"ish inches at 50 yds. with my Savage 219, with a flyer that made it .6"ish. Then one day walking to the target board, I noticed all the checks laying in the grass... Only crimp on checks for me since then. Good luck :)

[jhalcott]

Unless you have a low energy limit by law/regulation accuracy is more important than speed. I have taken problem deer with subsonic ammo from a 7 mm tcu.. my normal hunting loads in.30cal runabout 2000 fps. Normal alloy isww air cooled.

[Frank V]

I think a load above say 1200fps would work pretty well placed in the right spot.

I've takes several deer with handgun ctgs at 1500fps & down to 900fps.

[Good Cheer]

My old Ruger No.3 deer rifle uses #375296. The case is a necked down 45-70 with a 9/16" neck to cover all the lube grooves. Compressed charge of 760 and mag primer gives a flat enough trajectory and inside of 3" groups for 200 yard hunting. Furthest shot, dropped a buck between 150-200 yards in '91. Close in it's pretty destructive.

[Frank V]

Lead bullets can be very effective. Some don't believe it, but they are.

[runfiverun]

they can be overly effective, if driven too hard.

[Frank V]

Yes they can. Not sure we need over about 1500fps with a 405-450gr cast .45-70 bullet.

[BrentD]

1185 fps did the trick on this eland (and a handful of other critters as well).

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~jessie/PPB/Africa%202006/Eland.jpg

[jhalcott]

You can't MISS fast enough to kill 'em . And a hole in their leg is bad too!
I don't remember where I heard this but I do believe it!

[Frank V]

Nice Brent, thanks for sharing.