How much range scrap before you start making ingots

[talkglock]

Hello,

I know this is the kind of question that can only really be answered by the person asking it, but....

How much range scrap on average do you have on hand before you melt it down into ingots. I just started collecting it and I'm up to just about 108 pounds.

I still have to collect a cast iron pot, heat source, molds and all the other stuff that goes along with this so I am in no hurry.

[OS OK]

For your first melt, that's a respectable amount to do. Start with that, you will learn something each time you do it...like what not to do next time or what to do that will make it easier.
You're on the first rung of a tall ladder, take your time, one step at a time, be safe above all...read the warnings regarding personal protective gear because hot lead is non forgiving.
Here is a link to a thread I posted some time back regarding making ingots...New Casters…Lets Blend Pb & make INGOTS (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?301055-New-Casters%85Lets-Blend-Pb-amp-make-INGOTS)

Good luck and happy casting...OS OK

[DerekP Houston]

I think I did my first batch with around 200lbs. Enough that I wasn't just wasted propane trying to heat up air and dross.

Is this actually range scrap with jackets etc still in it? Or just mined lead from the berm? You'll lose a good amount of that weight to dross.

50lbs of lead actually lasts me quite longer than I initially planned in my head.

[jcwit]

I started with half a 5 gal. bucket full. Now have way over a ton.

Get the rest of your equipment together and go for it.

I use nothing more than a small Coleman single burner stove, only does small amounts but works for me, you may well wish to go bigger. I live in an area where Amish are at and white gas/Coleman fuel is available at the pump for $4.00 a gallon, not many have this available to them so use propane.

[talkglock]

DerekP,

Thank you for the response. It's a combination of jacketed and plain lead bullets, going from memory I think it's maybe slightly heavy on the plain lead side. I figured you loose some to the jackets but since it's all free except for my time collecting it, I'm not to worried about the lose to the copper

[talkglock]

Thank you for the response OS OK.

I've been doing a lot of reading and YouTube video watching.

[Smoke4320]

Personally I would collect all the lead I can ..
Then when ready to smelt do several small batches over several days .. you will be real surprised what you learn
and the wasted gas is not really wasted if you learn and don't have to redo because of errors or refinements..

Make absolutely sure your lead is dry .. Moisture hides in lead .
Start pot with lead already in the pot .. by bringing the lead up to temp in the pot you will eliminate some/most of hidden moisture .. do not add scrap to hot lead pot unless you are SURE its dry
just some tips to help get you started

[talkglock]

Thank you for the response OS OK.

I've been doing a lot of reading and YouTube video watching.

[Kraschenbirn]

You've probably accumulated enough for a 'first melt'. I mined our club's outdoor pistol berm until we changed the range layout with an average recovery rate of 60-65 lbs 9-11 Bhn alloy from every 100 lbs of raw range scrap. Recovery procedure consisted of raking down the face of the berm, shoveling the loose dirt, bullets, and debris into a coarse sifter then picking out the big pieces of rock, clay bird, etc. before dumping the sifter into a 5-gal. bucket. After that it's just melt, flux, skim off the trash, flux, again, skim again, and pour into ingots. I figure it'll take a couple years before our reconstructed berm accumulates enough lead to make mining worthwhile again...but I've got 100 lbs of ingot and something over 300 lbs of 'raw' to get by on until then.

Bill

[OS OK]

Thank you for the response OS OK.

I've been doing a lot of reading and YouTube video watching.

Your welcome...I started almost the same way you are doing, along with an old fella I know who let me cast in his shop. That's where I got 'bit' by the casting bug.
You tube will definitely show some 'how to's' but it shows lots a lot of 'how not to do's' too.
Insure that your burner and pot will hold all the weight your going to load into it before you start.

Welcome to our delightful madness...OS OK

With range scrap and Full Metal Jackets you must insure that they are smashed with a cracked jacket or snip them with side cutters so they don't build pressure and fizz out or explode in the pot...use a cover on the pot doing range scrap.

[Pee Wee]

Save the copper jackets and sort out any steel and take to scrap yard, Last time we smelted range scrape we ended up with 3000lbs between 4 of us, We then sorted out the steel from the copper jackets and had 20 gal of copper, Eddie and Duke took that to the scrape yard and traded for 4 of the big isotope cores, plus enough cash to pay for all of our propane.

[toallmy]

Spring and fall , it's going to get hot today . You heard the saying the best time to plant a oak tree was 20 years ago , next best time is right now . Get the kettle full and cook it . All kidding aside be safe .

[DerekP Houston]

Spring and fall , it's going to get hot today . You heard the saying the best time to plant a oak tree was 20 years ago , next best time is right now . Get the kettle full and cook it . All kidding aside be safe .

Lol I've heard the same saying for investing.....20 years ago would've been better but it's never too late to start. Those small batches of lead will quickly accumulate in to a nice stock pile.

[blackthorn]

A pot can be made from an old 20 pound propane cylinder. Screw out the valve, fill the tank with water, and use a zip-cut tool to cut a larger hole in the top of the tank. Next, dump out the water, lay the tank on its side and cut around the circumference close to the "shoulder" on the tank. A makeshift burner for running the pot can be made using a Tiger torch, a 45 degree steel, galvanized or cast pluming elbow and 4 cement building blocks. Place the elbow on the ground, held in place by the 4 blocks. Set the tank over the hole in the middle of the blocks and place the tiger torch in the lower end of the elbow. Fill (or whatever) the pot with scrap, light the torch and away you go. Be prepared to dip the melted metal out of the tank---you for sure will not lift it to pour! Have fun!

[runfiverun]

and if you do lift it to pour it into ingot molds make sure it's caught on video tape,,,, cause I wanna see that.

[Cowboy_Dan]

What I did for my scrap melts (range scrap, wheel weights, whatever) is to wait until I have just a little too much to fit into my pot and add that little extra as it starts melting. As air soace in the bottom of the pot gets filled with liquid metal the scrap above slides down a bit. I do let the pot solidify before adding anything else once the melted portion is less than a couple inches below the top of the solid portion to ensure there is time to drive off any water before it gets to the melt.

[mold maker]

One notice that's common mostly to range scrap, is to be especially watchful of a live case mixed with the berm harvest.
If un-noticed it will ruin you day in an unimaginable way.

[Mk42gunner]

A good heavy lid for you melting pot will help keep heat in making the lead melt quicker.

It may also help in the case of trapped moisture, by slowing the tinsel fairy down.

Robert

[flint45]

I do'nt have a real big smelting pot so after abot 150 lbs I smelt it and pour ingots. That fills my pot about twice.

[lightman]

It really depends on what kind of pot and burner that you have. 108 pounds is a good place to start. Its not Rocket Science but like most things, there is a learning curve. Starting small is probably a good idea. The two areas that I have had trouble with when I started was not having enough heat to melt what was in my pot and not having enough ingot molds to keep things moving. As the ingot mold is used it continues to get hot and progressively takes longer to cool. With my current set up I can melt about 400# of lead and I run 7 of the Lyman style molds. With this set up things move pretty quickly. Give some though to how you set things up and think about the process before you start. I perfer to have things about waist high to avoid having to stoop very much. I also have an old sheet of plywood under my set up to avoid having spilled lead on the concrete. Also, think about safety. I smelt in long pants worn over boots and a long sleeve shirt with work gloves and safety glasses. Cotton is a good material for this, but any natural fiber will work. Good Luck to you. Be sure to post some picture when you start. We like pictures!

[talkglock]

Thank you lightman for the words of wisdom. I like taking pictures, so yes I will post some once I get going.

[snuffy]

172370172371172372

That's my home casting set-up. A turkey fryer, propane, and scrap lead. The Lyman ingot molds produce nice 1 pound individual ingots or you can pour them level across the top to produce a 5 pound connected ingot. Steel muffin tins can also be used.

172373

After the above batch was done, I realized the turkey fryer base was too weak to hold that much weight. That dutch oven was holding about 100 pounds, it was wiggly, You don't want,,--can't believe the mess that would make if it tipped over.

172374

I at least doubled the uprights that hold the bottom of the pot ring and burner. Welded in 3 more pieces of ½ thick rods.

[talkglock]

Thank you for the reply, this kind of the setup I'm looking at doing. However, i am still at a cross road of either a turkey fryer like yours or go with the propane camp stove path. Again thank you for responding. Mark

[triggerhappy243]

go the turkey fryer burner.... if you can afford it. I use one. It gets the pot good and hot.... keeps it hot. I smelt in batches of 65 pounds per pot. that is a lot. Pot has a large surface area so all the crud that floats spreads out and easy to skim off.

[DerekP Houston]

I went with a heavy duty turkey fryer setup. You can get them cheap here after crawfish season, they go on clearance. Just open up the box and see how sturdy it is before you pick a brand.

[mold maker]

A heavy built turkey fryer is a sound investment, that won't have to be replaced. A camp stove will get overloaded and the wire grid will sag, making it useless.

[talkglock]

A heavy built turkey fryer is a sound investment, that won't have to be replaced. A camp stove will get overloaded and the wire grid will sag, making it useless.
I see one listed at AgraSupply for $40 (no link since I'm not sure if they are allowed, but you can google the below I'm sure if your interested in looking it up. Thinking that and a roughly 2 gallon dutch oven should be good enough for a one man operation who isn't in a hurry.
(Carolina Cooker® 12" Fryer Stand and Burner, 60 Lb. Capacity)

[talkglock]

Well got all the basic items today to star making ingots. Already melted to first 20 pounds of range scrap, got roughly 15 pounds of wedges. Will post pictures tomorrow at some point


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[DerekP Houston]

That fryer will work perfect if you rig up an external support for your lead melter. BTU loks solid, just worried about the "60lb capacity"

75% return for range scrap seems pretty good IMHO, don't forget you can sell the scrap jackets to the yard and trade for more lead.

[TXGunNut]

and if you do lift it to pour it into ingot molds make sure it's caught on video tape,,,, cause I wanna see that.


Ooops, does that mean I'm doing something wrong? ;-)

Seriously, though, 100 lbs is about my ideal smelting batch size. My shoulders and back get very tired during my normal 200+ lb batches. Larger batches probably produce a more consistent alloy but 100 will usually give you some consistency.
Gather your gear and fire that baby up!

[talkglock]

Ok so as posted late last week I got all my stuff to start melting down all the range scrap that I have picked up over the last couple weeks (roughly 350 pounds)

Run down on the equipment that I got includes the following:

Turkey Fryer Burner (Carolina Cooker brand) w/60 pound capacity $40.00
1 gallon Dutch Oven (Carolina Cooker brand) $20.00
2 scone/wedge frying pan (Carolina Cooker brand) $13.00/each
Misc spoons and the like $20.00 (couldn't find these items at the local goodwill type locations)

Pictures shows the 300 pounds I melted down Sunday. One big learning lesson was that I'm not doing this again when it is 95 degrees out with a 105 degree heat index, it was flat out brutal.

Of the 300 pounds I got about 60 pounds of dirt and copper jackets recovered for a total of 240 pounds of lead ingots.

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[talkglock]

Couple more pictures:

172935172936172937172938

[DerekP Houston]

LOL I think everyone learns that lesson about the heat outside when melting range scrap down the first time. Heck I run in and out of the house to keep myself cool while casting. Slow and steady gets the boolits made either way.

[gwpercle]

Not so much a how much, but three things have to happen at the same time : 1.) I have to have some free time , 2.) it's not 107 in the shade and 3.) it's not raining . For these three conditions to all coincide...in South Louisiana , it's like an alignment of the stars, it doesn't happen often.
But when it does happen that's when I do it.
Gary

[Andy]

I did my first session ever a few months ago in a dutch oven on a propane burner. Seemed like 40lb at a time (final yield in ingots) was all I could get into it even heaping. I did about 500lbs leisurely over a few days working off and on and probably wouldn't set up again until I had 200 lbs. If I was out of lead to cast with I wouldn't think twice before I did a 40lb session though.

[lightman]

Good Job! Looks like you are off to a good start! Enjoyed the pictures too.

[Storydude]

the thing to remember with smelting(not casting) is Bigger is better in regards to a burner. You REALLY need the BTU's to get range scrap to melt in a reasonable amount of time. the Dirt and **** all works as insulation.

[Echo]

Not so much a how much, but three things have to happen at the same time : 1.) I have to have some free time , 2.) it's not 107 in the shade and 3.) it's not raining . For these three conditions to all coincide...in South Louisiana , it's like an alignment of the stars, it doesn't happen often.
But when it does happen that's when I do it.
Gary

Good Grief, Gary - I didn't know Red Stick was in Southern Louisiana. I thought it was RedNeck country, not Coonie Country! (FIL was a red-headed Irish Coonie, from New Iberia...)