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View Full Version : New Boolit maker, lessons learned and some questions



Adam604
05-22-2008, 01:27 PM
Hi Folks,

I'm new to casting and have been having fun so far. For now I'm casting for 45 ACP with some old used Lee single cavity molds from my step dad.

Lee 90354 45 cal 200 gn RF (looks like lee 452-200-RF 90234)
Lee 90383 45 cal 228 gn RN (looks like lee 452-228-1R 90351)

Melting lead on a old Coleman 2 burner camp stove using a a steel pot, soup ladle, slotted skimmer spoon, stirring spoon and muffin tins for ingots all from the junk store ($5.75). I do my work outside for good lighting, ventilation and spillage. I bought a RCBS ladle and wheel weights and gave it a go.

I've been drinking at your guys firehose of knowledge and have "Leemented" my molds and have been getting shootable bullets.

Been back for more learnin' after the first bit of hands on playing with the "silver stream".

Lessons learned:

Lead is heavy.. Man, a quart of liquid lead really weights a lot! Steady lifting takes two hands... (good thing I was working on top of a sheet of wet plywood ..)

Lead is heavy.. Man a soup ladle of liquid lead really weights a lot! (good thing I was working on top of a sheet of wet plywood ..)

Lead is heavy.. Man a muffin pan of liquid lead really weights a lot! (good thing I was working on top of a sheet of wet plywood ..)

Lead is heavy.. Man a muffin pan of solid lead really weights a lot and muffin pan gets the heck bent up trying to dump ingots. (damn things stuck, did the peel off the pan from the ingots the first go, then I got smart and heated the pan over the Coleman stove and the stuck ingots fell right out, (pan number 2))

Lead stays hot for a while (need a new bucket to collect wheel weights, the ingots were a bit to warm for the old plastic paint bucket and they escaped)

Saw dust and a wood stick make a good go of fluxing the ingot pot. The second batch of wheel weights melted down had almost no lead stuck to the metal clips.

Sort the wheel weights better, man those rubber valve stems really smoke and stink...

Cover the Coleman stove and everything else you don't want covered with lead splatters with aluminum foil

Wheel weights are not free and most tire places around here won't sell them to you either. Les Schwab will for $25 a bucket (about 70 lbs)

Really thick gloves are good.

Good thing no one was watchin' me screw up...

Work out side......


I've been drinking at your guys fire hose of knowledge and have "Leemented" my molds and have been getting shootable bullets.

Also I've used the following tips for smelting and casting:

1. Stir casting pot every 20 -30 casts with a wood stick and skim

2. Don't let your ladle get "gunked"up.

3. Fill ladle by sweeping forward to "clear a path" and reverse scoop-fill in the "shiny path".

4. Keep the ladle spout out of the melt.

5. Watch out for lead smears on top of mold. (cutting the sprue to soon?) got some bull plate sprue lube on order.

6. The sooner you cut the sprue the easer it is, but not to soon. (easier said than done)

7. Don't let your bullets pile up in the "drop zone" unless you want dented bullets.

8. Don't knock off your sprues over the "drop zone" unless you want to sort your sprues out.

9. Gloves own em' wear em', nuff said.

10. Smooth and calm, don't splash.....

11. Fill up the stove with fuel before you start...

12. Set everything up and have everything ready before you start heating up lead....

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++
Now to the questions:

My 45 seems to really like the 200 gn RF bullet, but I'm having a hard time seating them without shaving lead. I've flared the cases as much as my Lee dies will do and chamfered the cases too. I sorted the bullets for size and am using the smaller ones. I am using a flared chamfered case as a size checker, if I can start the base into the case its a keeper.

How can I cast to produce "small" bullets, or what are the tricks to cast small? I don't own a bullet luber/sizer.

From my drinking at the well I understand:

Temperature is vital for size. Too cold will drop small boolits. Making the mold hotter will expand it more for a larger boolit but if you get too hot, the lead will shrink more.

Metal alloy also controls bullet size.

Age of bullet also controls bullet size.

++++++++++++

So how can I do this?

Cool my mold on a wet sponge every cast or 2?

Try to not let the melted lead to hot? (don't have a thermometer, any way to check temp without? saw something about a strip of paper, but it seems to burn to crisp right away for me, too hot?)

I'm just using straight Wheel Weights for lead now, would adding tin or something help?

docone31
05-22-2008, 01:42 PM
I add a little tin to WW, and size the 200gn RF to 452.
Wonderbar.

OLPDon
05-22-2008, 02:31 PM
As for shaving boolits when seating. Flair the case mouth just a weeeee bit (Bell the Case). Flair just enough to start base of boolit that will end the shaving problem.
Don

monadnock#5
05-22-2008, 04:16 PM
Measure your case lengths after resizing. If the difference is .008 or more, you will have found the reason why some cases shave lead and others don't. Then you can decide whether to trim your cases, or bell them all to the shortest case length, and then live with split case necks amongst the longer cases.

454PB
05-22-2008, 05:08 PM
Good advice above. I'll add that you should seat and crimp in two separate steps if you're using a taper crimp. Sometimes the case mouth starts folding inwards before the boolit has stopped moving into the case. The result is lead shaving around the case mouth.

Adam604
05-22-2008, 07:00 PM
Sorry to reply to my own post but:

I have a Lee carbide 4 die set

I've flared the cases as much as my Lee dies will do even with a couple of spacers added to the flaring die to increase the amount of flare.

I put a large chamfer on the cases after flaring process.

I do seat the bullets first. This is when I have shaving problems..

I use the taper crimp / sizer die to crimp

I guess in my sort for "small" cast bullets I am not being picky enough. I guess I should only select those bullets that will start "flat" on my test case.

If I sort the bullets at this level of "small" I don't have shaving lead problems. I would reject almost 80% of what I cast after I have already sorted for wrinklies, poor fills, underfills, dented.

So my question is how can I change my casting process to cast bullets that come out small more often?

Squeeze the Hell out of my handles to minimize cavity size?

Run the mold as cool as I can with out wrinkles? (COLD MOLD IS AT A MINIMUM CAVITY SIZE)

Run the lead pot temp as high as I can? (HOTTER LEAD IS AT MAXIMUM VOLUME)

Cool the mold often on wet sponge / towel base down or sprue plate down? (SHRINK MOLD BEFORE LEAD COOLS ALL THE WAY)

Change the lead alloy I use. Straight Wheel weights now (Is this the smallest casting alloy?)

Do all of the above?

It seems something I'm doing now produces "small" bullets about 20% of the time, I just would like it to be like 80% or more...

Thanks in advance,

Adam604

oso
05-22-2008, 08:34 PM
A coating of graphite spray mold release in the cavities will reduce bullet size slightly.
Make sure you are closing the mold completely.
Take docone31's advise and size the boolits.
Good luck.

HeavyMetal
05-22-2008, 09:00 PM
Do you have a way to measure boolit diameter? Sounds like both these molds may have been for the old long colt round and that means they'll come out of the mold around .454 and maybe bigger.

Remember 45 auto is .451 Jacketed and I've seen ball at .450! Check the diameter! I think your problem may soon clear itself up.

Sizing .454 to .452 won't be to much and you can get away cheap with the Lee push through set up.

Adam604
05-24-2008, 10:54 AM
The saga continues....

Well I cast some more 45 boolits so I could measure them. I shot up all of the ones I had on hand, I really couldn't tell the difference in accuracy of the shaved bullets and the not shaved. Still hitting the paper plates at 20 yrds... The 200 gn RF is holding groups of less than 2 inches shaved or not. The 228 gn RN is just barely keeping them on the plate and isn't shaving any of them..

Load:
200 gn RF
5gn Unique
CCI Large pistol primer
OAL 1.168 in.

Load:
228 gn RN
5gn Unique
CCI Large pistol primer
OAL 1.20 in


Measurement results of unfired bullets

Lee 90354 45 cal 200 gn RF (looks like lee 452-200-RF 90234)

Measured 5 bullets.. fresh from the mold, cool and unlubed... Well they aren't really all that round i guess. Min measurement 0.4525 max 0.4546 (Mitutoyo digital caliper). This was and average of the 5 bullets min was smallest measurement on bullet, max was biggest measurement on bullet. The max measurement was at the mold part line and I inspected the bullets and saw no sign of a "fin" I guess a bit out of round...

Lee 90383 45 cal 228 gn RN (looks like lee 452-228-1R 90351)

Measured 5 bullets.. fresh from the mold, cool and unlubed... Well they aren't really all that round i guess. Min measurement 0.4495 max 0.4525 (Mitutoyo digital caliper). This was and average of the 5 bullets min was smallest measurement on bullet, max was biggest measurement on bullet. The max measurement was at the mold part line and I inspected the bullets and saw no sign of a "fin" I guess a bit out of round...

I also "slugged" my pistol...
3 slugs from the muzzle end measured 0.451 average of 3 slugs

Well I guess I will order a Lee lube/sizer in 0.452 and call it good.

Until the sizer shows up I will try flaring more with a tap of a flared shoulder socket wrench that is just about the right size to fit the case and produce a bit more flare. Not as much control as a die but it will work for now.

I'm also going to order a universal flaring die from Lee too.

Thanks for your input.

HeavyMetal
05-24-2008, 11:23 AM
I think you've got it under control! That 200 gr. at 454 was the problem child I'm sure.

You'll like the universal flaring tool I have one and wouldn't be without it!

Your 228 gr RN might benifit from an alloy change? A little Tin added might get the "low" side up enough to completely "round up" in the sizer die.

Get the new gear, cast and shoot before you make any more changes. Then decide if you want to mess with an alloy change.

montana_charlie
05-24-2008, 12:11 PM
Change the lead alloy I use. Straight Wheel weights now (Is this the smallest casting alloy?)
Pure lead is the smallest casting alloy.
CM

NSP64
05-24-2008, 12:50 PM
Adam604, Welcome to the addiction.:drinks: You might want to add some tin to the mix. Seems to help with fill-out. Dip the mold in the pot to pre-heat should help the wrinkles. The Lee 200 swc over 5.4gr unique,:Fire: is what I feed my .45.

TexasJeff
05-25-2008, 10:36 AM
Adam,

I'll second the recommendation for a universal flaring die as well as the Lee push-through sizer. I use the Lee sizers for .452 in both 230 gr RN and 200 gr SWC with zero problems. Both moulds have the conventional lube grooves rather than the microbands, but I still tumble-lube them and then size.

No shaving of lead during the seating process, and no leading during the shooting process.

And, as others have said, welcome to the addiction.

Jeff