32-20 loading help

[yman]

I need some help reloading for 32-20 rifle, I have searched all my loading manuals and the web and cant find much for rifles. I have a rem 25R and while I don't think its up to the "strong action" loads I found reference to, I do think it will handle a little more than pistol or "cowboy" loads which is about all I can find. The gun is in excellent condition and I had a gunsmith check it out prior to buying it. I got a LEE 100gr round nose mold with it and a set of lee dies. I normally make bullets from ww, but I did pick up a box of hornady 85gr jhp just to see how they shoot. I will probably use the gun mostly for cans, but I see it as a fine rabbit & squirrel gun, also on walks were I see the occasional coyote and bobcat. One of the biggest problems I find is which to use, SP or SR primers. I think somewhere around 1000/1100fps would do the trick, but if anyone can give me some tips I would appreciate it. Thanks.

[Ramslammer]

G'Day
We have had a lot of good results with 10.5 grns of 4227 with a small pistol primer and a Lyman 311008 115grn. Start a bit lower and work up.
Juddy

[725]

Going to follow this thread with interest. Have a chance to shoot a buddy's .32-20 S&W revolver and don't have a clue as to what is appropriate for loading or boolits whislt in pursuit of the dreaded 25 yard paper bullseye. It appears to be in good shape and digests factory ammo without issue. Just want to make it a plinker.

[Outpost75]

The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th Edition (2010) on page 173 has the very information you seek!

For use in weak actions, I prefer a bulky powder which fills the case and thereby positively prevents any possibility of loading a double charge, producing standard pressure and velocity using a nominal case full of powder.

Of the powders currently available to handloaders , only RL7 and 4198 meet these requirements and have the added benefit of pressure tested data developed in accordance with industry standards.

Lyman lists the 115-grain #311008 bullet, the standard bullet for the .32-20, seated at 1.59” overall cartridge length. The starting load of IMR4198 is 10 grains, which gives 1019 fps @ 8,900 cup, whereas the maximum load is 12.4 grains for 1272 fps @ 15,300 cup.

Using RL7 powder with the #311008 bullet at 1.59” overall cartridge length the starting load is 12.4 grains for 1038 fps @6,500 cup, and the maximum recommended is 15.5 grains for 1405 fps @16,000 cup, which should not be exceeded in your old black powder actions.

Velocities in Lyman’s testing were measured from a 14” barrel assembled into a Universal receiver. Based on my experience chronographing these powders with case-capacity loads in the .44-40 I would expect about +100 fps from a 20” barrel and about +150 fps from a rifle barrel longer than 24 inches. My neighbor uses the 100-grain Speer JHP bullet for the .32 H&R Magnum with 15 grains of H4198 in an original Winchester 1873 rifle with good results on barnyard varmints, despite its salt and pepper bore. Your 85-grain Hornady XTPs would perform well with these charges, and if you wish substituing the 100-grain XTP would also be safe. For cast bullets the Saeco #322, Accurate 31-110C and 31-118B bullets are good choices for the .32-20. Your Lee bullet should be satisfactory with these charges too.

[Idaho Mule]

You've gotten great advice so far. Try different primers, some guns/loads prefer SP and some prefer SR and some prefer this brand over that brand. Myself, I usually start with either Winchester or CCI brands and go from there. Lots of times the CCI SP primer comes out the winner. Your Lee boolit should do fine, I personally have no experience with that one. I like RCBS's 98 gr. swc, Lyman 311008, Noe's copy of Lyman 311008, as well as a few others. The slower burning powders suggested (4227, 4198, and even 2400) are all good choices for rifle loads. Many others will work well too and one of the best has always been about 4.5 gr. of Unique. W231 also works well in some. I prefer the slower powders with more gas volume in rifle loads but don't be totally constrained by that, experiment a little. Your options are many. Hornady xtp's are great bullets, but extremely hard on game meat (as in, BLOWN UP SIR) at very much velocity. If you need help just ask for more, all of us here are happy to help. JW

[Outpost75]

Going to follow this thread with interest. Have a chance to shoot a buddy's .32-20 S&W revolver and don't have a clue as to what is appropriate for loading or boolits whislt in pursuit of the dreaded 25 yard paper bullseye. It appears to be in good shape and digests factory ammo without issue. Just want to make it a plinker.

For paper punching with your buddy's old .32-20 Hand Ejector S&W the #3118 or modern #31008 with 2.7 to 3 grains of Bullseye, or 3.0 to 3.5 grains of W231 or 3.5 to 4.0 grains of Unique will approximate factory loads and be gentle on the old girl.

[yman]

I have some 4227 & some Unique on hand, so as soon as I can mold up some bullets I will try them. I have some cci sp and some federal sr primers to try also. I like the looks of the Lyman 115 bullet too, I may have to get one, I have never been a fan of the RN bullet like the lee mold but hey, it came with the gun. I think the barrel length is 16in, so I may have to go with the faster unigue to get up to speed, but I will run it across the chrono to see.

[castalott]

If it were mine, I wouldn't hotrod it. But that's just me.

I share your interest in 32-20. A fun little round that I am trying to replace 22lr.

here is Paco Kelly's site...

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=32-20&Weight=All&type=Rifle&Source=

Good Luck to us both...

[yman]

I think the 32-20 is going to work fine, I am a little concerned about the neck wall thickness. I already crushed a case by getting a little off center, knew it as soon as I felt it go in, but to late then. Seems like my Lee expander die mite be a little on the small side. I didn't get any ppwk with it, but I think I will pull it out and measure it, I wonder if it mite be a .311 size. I am not sure if Lee makes different size expanders for that cal. or if I mite have to move to another brand.

[leftiye]

For a lot of .32s .314 is a good size. Slugga you barrel to be sure what size to use for best results. Expander dies should size the neck with about .002" stretch for best hold and to avoid sizing boolits down when seating.

[yman]

I will slug the bore, question, I usually use a 45cal pure lead muzzle loading bullet, for the smaller bore I just beat them down some the a hammer and small anvil until the are just oversize, then drive them thru with a wooden dowel. Anything wrong with this, I would hate to mess up.

[rking22]

Fine little rifle you have there, rather hard to come by. I have one just like it as well as another with a long barrel (can't remember , maybe 24"). Both mine like the 311008 on 4.5 of Unique. It shot so well I have not experimented much! That load will cloverleaf at 25 yards from my rifle and almost as well from the carbine. Plenty accurate for small stuff you might wanna eat :)
When I slugged my rifle it was .310, I size to .311 and shoot them in both. The little Lee you have shoots OK in mine, don't remember the load as it's been a while. I just like the flat nose of the 311008 better so haven't revisited the Lee.

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll40/rkingk75/M25Car3220s_zps37351c29.jpg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/rkingk75/media/M25Car3220s_zps37351c29.jpg.html)

[rodwha]

I'm a bit curious what this round was and is typically used for as it seems a bit underpowered for medium game and a bit much for small game, though there are plenty of .32-.40 cal muzzleloaders used for small critters.

I certainly understand the nostalgia but wonder why someone would choose this over a .22 rimfire or Hornet in all but a few instances.

[Jeff Michel]

It doesn't do anything fancy, reasonably heavy bullet for it's size, not overly destructive, very good terminal effect on animals and if your a careful hunter, harvest your deer. In short it will do everything a 22 LR/Hornet only better. Your opinion may vary.

[Outpost75]

...I certainly understand the nostalgia but wonder why someone would choose this over a .22 rimfire or Hornet in all but a few instances.

Cheaper to cast and reload .32s than to replace quality .22 LR ammo at current market prices.

Better game killer on anything groundhog size or larger than any rimfire and MUCH less meat destruction than a .22 Hornet for anything you care to eat.

[Dan Cash]

I will slug the bore, question, I usually use a 45cal pure lead muzzle loading bullet, for the smaller bore I just beat them down some the a hammer and small anvil until the are just oversize, then drive them thru with a wooden dowel. Anything wrong with this, I would hate to mess up.

Do NOT use a wooden dowell. It will break, get jammed in the barrel and then you have a problem. Since you have a mould, just cast a couple bullets and use them. They will work and tell you what you need to know, even if they are skanky lookin.

.32-20 is a forgiving cartridge to load except for delicate case necks. You will get the feel so you don't ding them up so often. Invest in a Lyman "M" die and/or a set of Lyman cowboy dies or Redding dies. They will work better. I load for a Marlin 94 and Colt Army Special and Cimarron 1873 Single Action and use the same load for all three. I use a 105 grain over 8.8 grain of 2400 and a small rifle primer as pistol primers do not give uniform ignition. Rifle clocks at 1650 and the 5 1/2 inch revolvers 1250 - 1300.

[yman]

rking22, love the pic, i see yours has the correct carbine rear sight for this model. I have seen several with the standard rifle site. I would like to have one of the rifles in 25-20. I am going to look for a 311008 mold sometime, I much prefer a flat nose bullet too.
rodwha, I think its just fun round, and if you ever got you hand on one of those little guns you would think so to. Its like a grown up .22 but better, and like outpost75 said you can reload it.
DanCash, do you think Lee dies are inadaquit? or do just like Lyman dies? Just asking, I never owned a set of lyman or redding dies.

[rking22]

Thanks vman, I waited an inordinate amount of time for that carbine to go up for sale! If you check on the NOE website, I think you will fine a really good 311008 clone that will be the right size without rolling the dice on a lyman. Price will be close as well, might could get a 5 holer to feed it faster :)
I used a 320 RB (buckshot) to slug mine. It measured within .0005 of several others on the Remington Society forum, so I suspect Remington held better bore tolerances in the 20s and 30s than they do now! As far as why a 32-20, cause they didn't make M25s in 38 Special :) but seriously, it's a big 22LR that can be reloaded. Very special little rifles, good luck on your hunt for a 25-20. I know of one but doubt it will be for sale, it's a family gun, and I hope the young man has the good sense to keep it!

[JeffinNZ]

I run a NOE 314008 over 4.1gr Green Dot for 1040fps via the suppressor. A slight crimp into the top grease groove pulls the group in tighter also.

[Ramslammer]

G'Day All
I've got one in 25/20 and one in 32/20. They are both rifles and don't look as sweet as that carbine but considering I'm in Australia I don't think I'll find one of those short barrel ones. Heres a pic of the 32/20 getting some tucker 172148
Juddy

[yman]

Well, good news/bad news, I loaded some of the little 85gr xtp bullets (still have not got to cast any yet), over 10.0gr of imr 4227 and got a nice 1057avg. with SR primers. Looks like the accuracy is there too, but the primers were backing out of the primer pockets. No bulging, no splits, no primer flow, they were just barely past the primer pockets. I had a few primed with SP primers and tried those at 10.0, they stayed in just fine but the avg fps was all over the place. So maybe I should try a different brand of SR primer? I am using Federals, I admit I am not primer savvy, other than sm,lg, rifle/pistol, stad/mag I just buy whats aval. Anyone give me a shout and let me know if brand X mite be 1000th bigger and stay in?

Greetings to our friend in Tasmania, Ramslammer, fine little critter there. best i can show is a possum so far. But I have several bobcat and coyote around, i hope to bag one this fall.

you know, reking22. my father in law knew a man in Oregon back in the late 30's hunted deer with one of the little carbines all the time. He had a horse and a dog and he would slip up on the mountain behind his house and when he jumped a deer he told the the "way around jack" and the little dog would circle the deer and bring it back to him. He would shoot it right in the neck and throw it on the horse and tell it to go to the barn. When he got home the horse would be standing in the hallway of the barn waiting for him.
Now I sure dont consider it a deer gun, but times were different back then.

[yman]

I finally got to load some rounds with 10.0gr of imr 4227, i got 1050fps avg with the little 85gr hornady xtp bullets. (still have not got to mold anything). I loaded some with SR primers and some with SP primers. The SR primers gave me a smaller over all spread, but the primers backed out of the primer pockets just alittle, no splits,no primer flow, just a little raised primer. The ones with the pistol primers did not do this. Anyone think if i get some different SR primers (have Federal brand now) they might be a few 1000ths bigger? I wonder why the SP did not back out, I have to say in am no primer guru, I know smalls/large/mag, pistol/rifle but thats about all, well BR but dont believe i need those. Anyone have any advise or suggestions please, let me know. I guess it could be the brass, right now i a just using
W-W, but I have a few Rem.

Shout out to our friend down in Tasmania, nice little gun there ramslammer, all I every got with mine so far is a possum. Wonder how a little rem rifle which is hard to find in the states made its way down there, prob a good story. Lucky you, great gun.

[rking22]

vman, cool story, well trained horse !! On your primers, it may be that you are not generating enough pressure to keep the case head against the bolt and the SR primer is pushing the case forward where the SP dose not. I have that occurrence with some very lite loads in my 141 30Rem. Issue goes away with hunting loads. Just a thought , more knowledgeable folk should be along shortly.
I too wonder how many of these little gems found their way to the roo hunters way down yonder! Certainly many Winchester 92s showed up there. One of my dream vacations is a month in Australia and/or New Zealand, beautiful country!

[Dan Cash]

Lee dies are hit and miss. The Lyman Cowboy dies are designed for loading cast bullets and the Redding dies are simply more precise than the Lee. Either Lyman or Redding will save you cases.

Try increasing your powder charge. The primer backs up and is not reseated when the cartridge pressure is too low. If you just have to have such low velocity, try a faster powder like Unique.

[HABCAN]

For the .32-20 (and the .30's and .303's, LOL!) I have two of the LEE C309-113F molds. One I bored out with a 5/16" drill to be a PB, the other remains 'as issued' for GC's. Excellent results at high or low velocities, usually 'as-cast' unsized. My RCBS .32-20 dies have two sizes of expander buttons. I use CCI SP primers.

[MT Gianni]

For the .32-20 (and the .30's and .303's, LOL!) I have two of the LEE C309-113F molds. One I bored out with a 5/16" drill to be a PB, the other remains 'as issued' for GC's. Excellent results at high or low velocities, usually 'as-cast' unsized. My RCBS .32-20 dies have two sizes of expander buttons. I use CCI SP primers.
Add the 32 H&R as one that likes the Lee 1113 fp plainbased. The 30-06, 308 and 30-30 like it checked as well as almost any other 30 cal rifle. If you look close it is a scaled down version of the LBT 185 fn almost to a tee.

[castalott]

When shooting steel with the 32-20, it seems to hit hard for its size. Is it just me or do you guys think so too?

[9.3X62AL]

When shooting steel with the 32-20, it seems to hit hard for its size. Is it just me or do you guys think so too?

DEFINITELY.

If they can be found, try the Remington #6-1/2 primers in your 32/20 rifle. Their compound amount is optimized for cases the size of 22 Hornet, 25/20, 30 Carbine, and 32/20 and have sufficient cup strength to manage higher pressures like those found in the 22 Hornet, 30 Carbine, and high-velocity hyphenated WCF caliber loadings. Specific to the 32/20, my flyers came to a screeching halt in my Marlin 94 CCL once the Rem 6-1/2s got the call.

W-W and R-P 32/20 brass case necks will tweak and fold if looked at intently. Starline cases have neck thickness very close to that of the Big Maker brass, but its alloy or treatment must differ in some way--because the necks are stronger. (Same story with Starline 44/40 brass). The SL brass doesn't stretch nearly as much as the WW or RP brass did, either.

My RCBS 32/20 die set's OEM expander spud mics @ .309". This OK for bullets of .311" diameter, but my 32/20s (3 wheelguns, 1 rifle) need .313"-.314" sizing. I use the expander from either my RCBS 32 S&W Long die set (.3115") or the Lyman Multi-Charge expander sleeve (.312") with its M-die flaring ability.

RL-7 is a GREAT powder for the 32/20 rifle. A 100%+ loading density powder column helps support the bullet against being telescoped back into the case (Lyman #311008 has no crimp groove), just give things a soft crimp around the bullet's ogive origin to snug things up. With the Rem 6-1/2 primer the load provides 1880's velocities (1300 FPS or so in my Marlin) and darn good accuracy. Jackrabbits HATE IT.

[castalott]

I will try the Rem 6-1/2 primers... If I could get rid of the flyers. it would be a laser beam out to 40 or so...

When first starting to reload 32-20, I had an attrition rate of 1 or 2 cases for every 50 reloaded. Getting away from the 'progressive and speed' reloading mentality helped that to '0' . It also made reloading a joy again...a place to relax....

Do you think your Marlin chamber is 'generous'? I haven't tried to put a 30-30 in there yet but some days I think it would fit....

Dale

[9.3X62AL]

32/20 chambers in both rifles and revolvers can be......poetic, dimensionally speaking. Duesenbergs......no two are alike. Where I see most of the variance is in shoulder placement between the 4 arms I run. Radial clearance doesn't vary much between them, fortunately. I partial-FL-size my 32/20 brass, backing the size die off about 1/3 turn from shell holder contact to keep the shoulder from being set back excessively. This regimen allows it to fit in all of the arms. (FWIW--my 44/40 WCF experience is similar--shoulder placements vary).

For a time I loaded some high-order ammo for the Marlin--loads running the Speer 100 grain JHP to 1850 FPS or Lyman #311316 into the 1750-1800 FPS bracket. These shot well, and did a number on varmints--but don't plan on eating anything small that you shoot with such loads. They spread things right out.

[yman]

Well, that's a lot of good info, thanks everyone, that's why I like this site, you can get a lot of good information form those that "done that". I would have never thought the pressure was to low, and that's why my SR primers were backing out. I was afraid I was reaching the upper end of the little cartridge. I don't want to overdue the little gun. Appears I am at the low end of things, I mite push it up to 12-1300fps., best thing I every bought for reloading was a chronograph.

Dan cash I may try some lyman or redding dies. I bought rcbs when I started reloading and was never impressed, they do the job but nothing spl. I inherited a set of 45 lee dies and a set of lee dies came with the 32-20. They seem to do as well as the rcbs dies. When consistency is the goal, seems like good dies would be the place to start.

9.3x62al I will hunt down some 6 1/2 primers, I am about an hour from midsouth shooters, they should have some. I think starline brass is great too, I have some for my 45Colt, its good stuff. I just have a lot of W-W brass so I prob stay with that for now. I don't load for speed, I load more for fun, or as we tell our wifes, to save money.

[9.3X62AL]

1300 FPS achieved by using medium-speed handgun powders or faster rifle powders should be quite safe in any rifle in good repair chambered in 32/20.

[rking22]

Just for fun :)
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll40/rkingk75/RemM25Add_zpscsgsdrl7.jpg (http://s284.photobucket.com/user/rkingk75/media/RemM25Add_zpscsgsdrl7.jpg.html)
These little rifles were designed when the 32-20 "92 loads" were generally available.

[9.3X62AL]

Do you think your Marlin chamber is 'generous'? I haven't tried to put a 30-30 in there yet but some days I think it would fit....

Dale

I have a 1988-vintage Marlin 94 CL in 25/20 WCF. Specific to your question, these have a rep for having been "chambered long"--and mine is one such example. The caliber's more-pronounced case shoulder is cut deeper than "standard" (if such a thing exists), and case life is much-enhanced by partial FL sizing here also. The 25/20 has always been a somewhat tougher and easier case to manage than its 32 caliber predecessor. Let the case's first firing set the shoulder position, and LEAVE IT ALONE. Fail to do so, and you will get head separations after 3-4 firings--very reliably. 25/20 brass does not exactly grow on trees these days.

[castalott]

My Marlin brass is really a large neck diameter. Can you recommend an adjustable die ( with inserts) so I can not size down so much /expand out so much... Whew!... Does that make sense. When not even moving the shoulder I am overworking the brass...

Dale

[9.3X62AL]

I think you are describing bushing neck sizing dies, and I have no experience with them. I'm sure lots of other folks here have used them, and they should be along shortly if they are looking on. If no takers, try creating a new thread specific to bushing sizer dies and your questions about them.

[castalott]

Yes...I didn't know what to call them.... I wish one set up would do long (various rifle) and short (various pistol length ) both instead of buying specific to caliber dies....

[yman]

rking22, any idea when that ad was published? What a great time, not that they don't make nice guns now, but guns from that era just some to have something the new rifles done have.
I remember cleanbore ammo, I hate to say I shot a hole brick of it in .22 back in the 70's, kinda reminded me of bullets lubed with alox, I think I may try some alox lubed bullets just to see how they do. I have shot a lot of 38spl using alox at 850/900fps, I don't see why a little 100gr 32cal bullet wont do as well.

[dtknowles]

Yes...I didn't know what to call them.... I wish one set up would do long (various rifle) and short (various pistol length ) both instead of buying specific to caliber dies....

I can't imaging finding bushing neck dies for 32-20, you could lap a standard die to decrease the amount of neck reduction.

Tim

[rking22]

vman , I think it was 1931 but not sure, could be another one I'm thing of. I have lost the original file that had the info with it. I was at an auction where there was a good bit of collector ammo, Kleanbore 22s were bring 40$ + per 50box!!!!!!! And yes I shot a good bit of it in the early 70s also. I am told that the box is worth the same with or without the ammo, go figure! I shoot lots of 32-20 and 32SWL lubed with alox, more often BLL now as it's nicer to pocket carry when walking in the woods. Plenty good for the speeds these like to run. Now that add references the 80gr HI-Speed load (win 92 load), so I consider a M25 in good condition to be strong enough for those loads (occasional use only for me). Interesting to see what the little gun was like with a 1920s era "varmit" load :)

[dave524]

Be careful with dies for the 32-20, I have a set of Reddings from when I shot Metallic Silhouette with a TC Contender. They are actually 30-20 dies as the Contender was a .308 bore , pretty sure you would have neck crushing problems trying to load a real 32-20 bullet with them. They are conspicuously marked 32-20 TC on the box.

[BustemAgain]

9.3x62AL is dead on about the Remington 6 1/2 primers for the 32/20 they are the best in my loads. 5.5gr Unique 120gr, .314-120 RNFP Wilbird Group Buy and a 6 1/2 primer is fishing story accurate in my 32/20's. Goes just under 1400 FPS and is a game killing sumthin sumthin without destroying an undue amount of tender edibles.

[BustemAgain]

Also I highly recommend the purchase of a Lyman M-die for this caliber. It just makes everything work easier.

[castalott]

I wouldn't mind a 'redo' of the Willbird mold..... I have one and would like a spare... Any of the makers would be ok...

[rking22]

Could someone post a pic and some more info on the Willbird mold. I like 32 boolits and don't know what this one looks like, just may be needing one of those, fer squirrels and such you know :)

[myg30]

rking22, I just got sick seeing that Rem add picture you posted. $29.95 REALLY !!! Lol
I know that was good money back then but sure makes me sick. If we only had a crystal ball !
Thanks fer posting a blast from the past.
I'm not a .32 shooter but as I'm resizing your brass to 25-20 fer my marlin I think how nice it would be to have a big brother fer my lil .25, $29.95 I'd buy at least 2 !

Be safe and enjoy, Mike

[BustemAgain]

Could someone post a pic and some more info on the Willbird mold. I like 32 boolits and don't know what this one looks like, just may be needing one of those, fer squirrels and such you know :)
If you look up at the Cast Boolits logo you will see a pretty accurate depiction of the Wilbird bullet. I actually started a thread years ago about my results with this mold and Newtire threw in a picture of a few examples. Search for "Willbird's .314-120 RF" and it should come up

[castalott]

Here is a photo... Starting at 9 O'clock and going clockwise...The heavier of the 640 series designed by 45 2.1 The next ( coated) is the lighter of the 640 series. At 1 is a Lyman 311410 and then a group buy of the Lee 113 . Then a commercial 32-20 bullet.
Then at 4-5 O'clock is a smooth sided 32-20 bullet from Arsenal. From 6 to * O'clock is the Willbird boolet.

172799

[castalott]

Maybe better photo of Willbird...

172800

[castalott]

172803

Better?

[castalott]

Quite honestly I would like this in .309 and .225

Dale

[yman]

Casalott, that is a great looking bullet, I may have to look into that, with the current WARM weather I have not been interested in casting. It was so hot thru my mule was sweating just waiting for her evening grain.

Bustemagain, I think I will also try some unique, I been using 4227 just because I had a pound to burn up, I think I bought it for 44mag but never did like it. It leaves to much crud in the bore, I don't know, maybe I am doing something wrong. Although it does seem to have consistent and pretty accurate in the little rifle. I might try some power pistol too.

[rking22]

Castalott, thanks for the pic! I would like that for my 32-20s and suspect it would do well in he 327Fed too. Maybe a group buy NOE?????

MYG30,, I'd take a few at 29.95 myself !!! Really is too bad that no one makes anything like the little M25 anymore. With 22 LRs so scarce a while back, it would be a natural in 38Special and 32HR. The 38 would need a slight "scale-up", but the 32HR would fit fine. The Timberwolf was an attempt back in the 80s , but no where near the feel and quality of the M25. We keep them, enjoy them , then pass them along to someone else to enjoy for another generation!

[ammohead]

yman,

When the firing pin strikes the primer the case will move forward till the rim seats in the chamber. The gap between the bolt face and the head of the case caused by this forward motion is headspace. After the powder ignites the case walls expand to fill and grip the chamber walls tightly. What you are seeing by the primer backing out is the primer filling that headspace because the pressure is enough to unseat the primer and enough to make the case walls grip the chamber tight enough not to move. Increasing pressure will cause the case to stretch in the web area far enough to reseat the case head against the boltface pushing the primer back into place. The case walls in front of the web expand and grab the chamber. The head of the case behind the web does not expand and will push back against the boltface causing the stretching. Depending on how much headspace you have this can lead to case head separation at the point where the case stretches in as few as two or three loadings leaving you with a stuck case in a closed breech firearm. My point is if you like the load you have, don't worry about the primers backing out just a bit and shoot them. More pressure will cure the backed out primer symptom but may cause more grief in the long run.

[yman]

Ammohead, very good explanation, makes sense to me, I think I would rather have the backed out primer than the stuck case or head separation. Thanks for the info.

rking22, I remember the timber wolf, 38/357, I think it was made by Israeli Arms? Cant remember for sure been along time ago. They were workable guns but kinda lousy goosy, nothing pretty about them. The M25's are such sweet little guns in 25 or 32, seems like with the 327mag someone would come out with a rifle. Like you said with the .22 scare seems like a small bore reloadable round would make sense. And before someone says .223, I mean something in the 800-1200fps range. And I know the 22 hornet is still a viable option, seems like they are all bolt guns or single shots. Well we can always hope, I plain on keeping mine in best shape I can until I pass it on to the next lucky person.

[dave524]

yman,

When the firing pin strikes the primer the case will move forward till the rim seats in the chamber. The gap between the bolt face and the head of the case caused by this forward motion is headspace. After the powder ignites the case walls expand to fill and grip the chamber walls tightly. What you are seeing by the primer backing out is the primer filling that headspace because the pressure is enough to unseat the primer and enough to make the case walls grip the chamber tight enough not to move. Increasing pressure will cause the case to stretch in the web area far enough to reseat the case head against the boltface pushing the primer back into place. The case walls in front of the web expand and grab the chamber. The head of the case behind the web does not expand and will push back against the boltface causing the stretching. Depending on how much headspace you have this can lead to case head separation at the point where the case stretches in as few as two or three loadings leaving you with a stuck case in a closed breech firearm. My point is if you like the load you have, don't worry about the primers backing out just a bit and shoot them. More pressure will cure the backed out primer symptom but may cause more grief in the long run.

possibly the O ring trick like the 303 British shooters use could help and then size so the shoulder keeps the case tight to the bolt face in subsequent loadings, that is if the minimal shoulder on the 32-20 will do that.

[yman]

Alright, call me silly, I don't know what the O-ring trick is? Someone elaborate, in English,please.

[rking22]

I had never heard of it either, but I suspect you drop an appropriate sized o-ring down against the rim to take up the headspace. I am going to try this shortly on a 30-30 handirifle barrel that has excessive headspace( from the factory). I will just allocate a 50 round box of brass to this gun and let the shoulder establish headspace, like on 30 Herretts.
Thanks Dave524 :)

[dave524]

Alright, call me silly, I don't know what the O-ring trick is? Someone elaborate, in English,please.

You simply slide an appropriate size rubber O ring down over the case to the rim, when the round is chambered the O ring holds the case tight to the bolt face instead of the firing pin driving it forward and the case grips the walls and then the case stretches in the web area as it flows back to the bolt face, cases fired with the O ring will have the shoulder blown forward to a custom fit of the chamber and if you don't set the shoulder back in subsequent reloadings the case will last much longer before any case head separation issues. Many Lee Enfield shooters use this method because of excess headspace and or sloppy oversize chambers.

[yman]

L I B M R dux, I see how that would work. I guess I will have to buy a new set of dies, maybe is lyman M die as someone suggested earlier in this thread. Would take a little more work but, not going to be shooting 1000's or rounds anyway. Cool stuff,thanks.

[smkummer]

Where in KY do you live? I am on the Indiana side of Louisville. I have Lyman's 3118 mold that casts a 115 grain bullet but comes out at about .310 diameter. It might be perfect for a water dropped WW alloy bullet that doesn't need sizing. I can give you some to try.

[relic]

John Taylor has a 25-20 he keeps trying to sell to me, nice little carbine. Contact him.