Newbie question.

[Hogstir]

I just started reloading using cast bullets. I bought a box of 500 .45 caliber from HSM and another 100 bullets from Missouri bullet co.
Both boxes are marked as .452 diameter yet when measured they are actually .453 in diameter.
When I measure my semi jacketed bullets they measure .452 as listed.
Am I missing something here?

[Chris C]

Jacketed bullets don't fill the barrel completely. Lead, if properly sized and of a proper BHN for the pressure of the load, will obturate and seal the bore so gas doesn't escape around the bullet.

[Hogstir]

Jacketed bullets don't fill the barrel completely. Lead, if properly sized and of a proper BHN for the pressure of the load, will obturate and seal the bore so gas doesn't escape around the bullet.

so is it normal for cast bullets labeled as .452 to actually be .453 in diameter?

[Jevyod]

What were you using to measure? Calipers or micrometer?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Hogstir,
welcome to the website.

First, depending on the alloy, cast bullets can grow over time (6 months to a year).

Second measuring Lead accurately with a calipers is a tricky endeavor, you need a calibrated thumb that doesn't give more pressure when you've had a couple cups of coffee or less pressure when it's been a long day and you're tired. Using a 1" inside micrometer with a 'slip-clutch' takes all the thumb variability out of the equation, giving you repeatable accurate readings.

[OS OK]

so is it normal for cast bullets labeled as .452 to actually be .453 in diameter?

They are suppose to be as labeled...?

[Hogstir]

I was using 2 different calipers to double check. I also checked the jacketed bullets as way to verify accuracy. Every jacketed bullet I checked from multiple calibers measured as the box was labeled.
I am new to the world of cast bullets but have been reloading for many years. I don't see why my calpers would measure jacketed bullets correctly but not cast bullets.
Should cast bullets sold and labeled as .452 diameter actually measure out as .453?

[Hogstir]

Taking your suggestion I remeasured using a micrometer and the measurements still read .453 for the cast bullets and .452 for the jacketed.

[Chris C]

I'd venture to say, if your jacketed bullets measure .452 with dial calipers, then the .453 on the lead bullets you are measuring should be at least fairly close. Micrometers measure bullets more accurately. If your lead bullets measure .453 and the box says .452, then I'd say something is wrong. That said, unless you are shooting 1000 yd targets looking for sub-moa groups, it shouldn't make that much difference.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Should cast bullets sold and labeled as .452 diameter actually measure out as .453?
the answer is no,

but see info below

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First, depending on the alloy, cast bullets can grow over time (6 months to a year).
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?186114-How-do-boolits-grow

[Hogstir]

the answer is no,

but see info below

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http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?186114-How-do-boolits-grow

These bullets were all purchased recently so I have no idea how long ago they were actually cast. I guess the answer is to invest in a good sizer and resize them.
Any suggestions?

[Blackwater]

Hogstir, JonB in Glencoe has given you excellent advice. One of the things anyone in a GOOD machining class does first, is learning to measure accurately and consistently. And that ain't easy. It's all about technique, knowledge, judgment, and sometimes "feel." And like he says, even how much caffeine you've had can make a difference in your measurements. It's a biggie to machinists because .... well, if you can't measure, how do you know when something's right or not?

The thin metal calipers are made of and the metals they're mad of are easily stretched .001" or more, so it's really easy with them to get an off reading. It's a very humbling thing to have to measure certified stuff and get graded on your answers! I haven't done it but a rather ham-handed friend did, and all the guys I've ever known who dealt in precision had to develop their own techniques based on the particular "feel" they had to work with, and that's something that varies from individual to individual. That's why they use optical comparators for things that HAVE to be dead solid perfect. Takes the "feel" out of the equation. I wish I was better at it than I am, but knowing the pitfalls keeps any errors small and down to a bare minimum for me. Having a standard to measure and check your tools by is good, too. The surrounding temp of the measuring tools can even affect them, when you want to measure something VERY precisely. It's just the nature of the beast, and there's no way I know of to eliminate it. I sure wish there was!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

These bullets were all purchased recently so I have no idea how long ago they were actually cast. I guess the answer is to invest in a good sizer and resize them.
Any suggestions?
My suggestion is to try some: make some dummy rounds, do the pluck test into the chamber/s, cycle the action (if the gun is a semi-auto).

If they 'go' then follow through with the typical: load some up, using a "starting" charge, test fire, then check the spent case for signs of over pressure. then check accuracy. Your gun or guns may like the oversize bullets (if they are oversized?) better than spec size.

[runfiverun]

they were probably sized to 452 and labeled as such.

not only do antimonial alloys grow a bit with age they also have some spring back from the sizer.
the harder the alloy the more spring back you'll have.

[LuckyDog]

Just to stir the pot a little....

Lead is softer then copper, right?

Then if he was ham fisting the measurement, shouldn't the cast boolits have measured smaller then the condoms? (Assuming they are bother really 0.452)

Other than the "Not equal pressure" ; is there another reason one might measure an Outer Diameter larger than actual?

[Mitch]

welcome to the site Hogstir
I will agree th cast boolits you have should be marked the correct dia.
unless I missed it you did not say what you plan on shooting these boolits in.the .453 dia.might be a good thing.next thing is slugging the barrel and or cylinders if you havea revolver>if you have not done this already.then you will know if you have the proper fit.In the cast boolit world fit is king everything elae come after.

[fredj338]

I'm betting it is you & your calipers, easy to miss 0.001", never found comm bullets to be that far off.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

LuckyDog, I am not there to see the exact situation, but I've learned that I can't get repeatable measurements of Lead alloy bullets with a dial caliper, hence my skepticism.



Other than the "Not equal pressure" ; is there another reason one might measure an Outer Diameter larger than actual?
Lube would be an obvious culprit, especially that god-awful hard lube used by commercial casters.

This and all my comments in this thread are all my opinions, guaranteed or your money back.

[44man]

Fit through throats is the better indicator. not a revolver? Ok if they chamber.
Nothing to worry about.

[bangerjim]

Just shoot them.....don't sweat 0.001". And do not buy com-cast boolits any more! After all, that is what this place is about...CASTING our own boolits, not buying them.

banger

Oh.....and welcome to the forum. And do NOT use dial calipers to measure boolit diameters.

[Hogstir]

I guess a lot of guys missed the fact that I took the suggestion and remeasured using a micrometer. The measurements were the same as with the calipers.
I was planning on using these bullets in a Ruger Bisley Blackhawk that I just purchased. I must have gotten unlucky as my Ruger seems to have the undersized throats I've heard about.
Even the jacketed .452 bullets will not go thru the cylinder throats unless I wanted to use a sledge hammer.

[bangerjim]

I guess a lot of guys missed the fact that I took the suggestion and remeasured using a micrometer. The measurements were the same as with the calipers.
I was planning on using these bullets in a Ruger Bisley Blackhawk that I just purchased. I must have gotten unlucky as my Ruger seems to have the undersized throats I've heard about.
Even the jacketed .452 bullets will not go thru the cylinder throats unless I wanted to use a sledge hammer.

That is exactly why we on here slug our barrels 1st and then buy molds and sizing dies that give us the CORRECT sizes, rather than relying on some com-caster to guess at what our guns may need.

Consider casting your own and..........solve your problems with sizing.

Good luck with your boolit fit. We have all been there at one time or another. At least you can melt them down and reuse the Pb.

[Wayne Smith]

If you are serious about shooting and have the time and the room - invest in a sizer and size them down. If you plan on learning how to cast your own it is a good investment.

Or - send your cylinder to DougGuy and get your cylinder throats sized as they should be and then start casting your own!

[LuckyDog]

Lube would be an obvious culprit, especially that god-awful hard lube used by commercial casters.


No kidding! I was playing with my micrometer (vernier) and noticed that I need to use a piece of paper to clean the pads before using. If I touch it with my fingers, then run it closed with the 'slip-clutch', it won't go back to zero (a couple of 10 thousandths off).

Clamp it on the paper, pull out the paper a couple times... now it goes to zero, repeatably.

VERY precise (touchy?)

The above is repeatable. Luckily my mic is a 0-1". Would need gauge blocks for anything else.

[Echo]

These bullets were all purchased recently so I have no idea how long ago they were actually cast. I guess the answer is to invest in a good sizer and resize them.
Any suggestions?
Load 'em and give 'em a plunk test. If they chamber, shoot 'em. The bbl will size them down perfectly...

[Echo]

DANG! Hate it when that happens. If plug gauges show the throats to be .451, call Ruger and ask them what they want to do about it.

[Hogstir]

I sent the cylinder off to a place called "Cylinder Hone" to have the throats reamed. It cost $60 including return shipping and I had it back in less than a week. I will slug the barrel next.

[Walter Laich]

Load a few and shoot them. if your accuracy is acceptable and your not leading the bore keep on going.

[randyrat]

Your throats will size the bullets. The only problem you could have is a too big of bore diameter or the bullets won't chamber, but I doubt it.
Shoot it! the gun will tell you.