There comes a time...

[fatelk]

...in life, when you have to give up something you like; a time to back off a little on selfish interests and pursuits, to focus on more important matters.

I've been thinking for some time now about spending less time reloading and casting, and less time at the range. It's not that I spend a lot at either, but I have accumulated a lot of guns and gear over the years. As my kids grow both spare time and extra money are in short supply, and now this happens.

I work for a large company with a lot of small sites with people who are fairly well paid. A lot of these employees have decades with the company, and suddenly we find ourselves working for a different company with a very different corporate culture when it comes to valuing employees, and things like cost of benefits and retirement, etc.. No, we didn't get bought out; we bought them but it's been decided that many of us will now be them, taking big losses in the process.

So, my options are:
1. Move. I'm extremely unlikely to find anything in this area that I'm qualified for that pays what I need, but I absolutely hate the thought of uprooting the family again.
2. Live on less. Hard to do since we already pinch pennies pretty tight. We drive old, high mileage cars. We rarely eat out and we don't know what a vacation is. I feel like I make pretty good money, but there just isn't any extra at the end of the month. I guess that's the nature of raising a family on one income.
3. Bring in more, somehow. My wife doesn't and can't work at this time, for health reasons and the fact that we have a house full of kids; and I can't get a second job because of the nature of my job.

I'm thinking it's going to be a combination of 2 and 3. My gun and reloading budget will be going to effectively zero, and I'll be getting rid of a bunch of stuff over the next couple years. We'll also be looking into some kind of internet thing like an ebay store or something we can do from home in spare time (the time I would have spent reloading). Not something big to get rich, just a little extra to make up the difference each month.

I know I'm not the only one who has gone through this kind of thing, far from it. I'm not whining, just thinking through some long term strategy. Any advice from you all who have been there?

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Yeah......well......being retired I kind of know what you're talking about with #2 and #3. I am presently working at a relaxed rate on making #1 happen. But #1 is easier for me than you, because you're still working. Perhaps you might make #3 work for you by combining your casting hobby with the home business/e-bay idea. There does seem to be a market for custom cast bullets. Jumping back to #2, it is tough raising a family and maintaining all the things necessary in a marriage on one income--anyway, a normal income. When I was working part of the time I did work two jobs. I was able to make it work by working the 2nd job for full shifts on my days off from my main job, or part time after work. But there is the old axiom that "the more you make the more you'll spend", which I always found to be true. And too much time at work can cause the family life to suffer. Best wishes.

DG

[smoked turkey]

fatelk sounds like your life has been put in a blender and shaken up. I know the options you list have come about by lots of careful thought. I would like to offer another possibility that you may have already decided will not work. But here is my thought. Why not keep your present employer for a time and give it a shot. They will continue to need good people to do what you have done and who knows, they might put you some place else that works out to be your pony. You know that old story about the little boy that wanted a pony for his birthday and when his BD came and no pony to be seen, he goes out to the barn and is frantically digging through the hay. His dad says what are you doing son. He replies to his dad "there's got to be a pony in there someplace". That happened to me on a job. The boss transferred me to another department with new people and a new job. I told him my dislike of the change and my wise boss said "keep digging, you may find your pony". You know what, I did. My new job with the company turned out to be an advantage for me in that I gained more training which made me more valuable to the company. Just a thought. You might just need to keep digging at least for the time being to see how it all shakes out.

[buckwheatpaul]

fatelk and DG .... read your posts and agree with both. Been retired for almost 4 years and I do admit that money does not go as far as before.....but with the passing of time .... it has occurred to me that many things that I thought were important are not nearly as important as before .... after my better-half was seriously hurt the other day things became even more apparent.....and clear! Reflection comes with time as does regrets.....I have never regretted: 1. my belief in God; 2. marrying my better half, 40 years in December; 3. the love of our kids; 4. true friends; 5. my Cast Boolits family; 6. and the love of a good dog or two. If you are as lucky as I have been then you to are as rich or richer than I and all the other stuff just does not merit much worry at all....IMHO

[Fishman]

If I may, Financial Peace University put out by Dave Ramsey is very helpful. You will find money you didn't know you had. Check it out or pm me if you are interested to know more.

[runfiverun]

Fishman has a good idea.

I'd just close the door to the gun room except for 1-2 cheap shooters [9mm pistols] only get them out when I needed a break.
and focus on the money for a bit.

[dtknowles]

There was a time soon after I was first married where money was tight and I had a wife and child who both needed a lot of my time and had serious medical expenses and the deductibles and out of pocket max were high. We hit the out of pocket max a few years in a row. The rifles stayed locked in their cases under the bed and the reloading equipment was all in a steamer trunk in the garage. The only gun purchase for years was a Bersa .380 for the wife and a couple boxes of ammo to get her used to the gun and to have some left for self defense.

The wife could not work because of the medical problems, I had to work a shift rotation and weekend overtime on occasion. Shift differential was almost nothing and my overtime was only paid at strait time as I was "exempt" to labor rules, they actually did not have to pay me for my overtime.

I built model rockets and airplanes, got a $100 radio control system used surplus electric motors and surplus batteries to power the stick built planes. Charged the batteries with a home built charger. Helped me keep my sanity.

Got thru that period and the wife was able to work from time to time for a while. We never went into debt. One year after Christmas we could not pay off the credit card balance, only paid half in January but paid it off in full in February. Never had debt except car payments and house note. I had a Student loan but paid it off before I got married.

Years later we were much better off financially but the wife's health took a turn for the worse. Insurance was different this time and all the expenses were covered with only small copayments except the ER was $400 a visit and we had a bunch of those.

Speeding this up, she passed away and I got laid off and my Mom died all in the matter of 12 months. Between the Life Insurance, my severance and unused vacation and my Mom's estate money was no longer a problem but the two most important women in my life and my Job were gone and money can't replace that.

You just have to roll with the punches, take your best shot, and keep on Trucking.

Tim

[dtknowles]

About the Job, stick with work you like and learn all you can. I was laid off at the end of the Space Shuttle Program. The space program was always very important to me.

A guy who I had worked with asked me to come help him start up a new rocket company. I say sure, he paid me very well for years and we were looking good but things have turned for the worse and I am owed many months back pay. I would still go to work and help even without pay since I can afford too.

Tim

[fatelk]

We're working on tightening the budget and I'm sure we can always find something. I used to listen to Dave Ramsey on the radio quite a bit and he has good ideas. I've had the opportunity to look into the Financial Peace thing, but never did because I kind of thought he took some things a little farther than I would. I guess I need to take things seriously and check into it.

If we really scrimp I'm sure we'll be able to make it. I know we can find a little wiggle room. I have enough components to not spend money on any reloading stuff for a long time, and still go to the range once in a while. Beyond that I think I will dial it all back for quite some time, even plan on selling a bunch of stuff. Kids don't seem to get any cheaper, especially when they start going out for sports and such. You guys are right about closing up the reloading room for a while. I want to try to start saving a little each month to help my four kids with college down the road.

At work we're all discouraged and disappointed to have put in so many years with what we thought was a good company, then to be treated like this, but I guess that's just life in the corporate world.


You just have to roll with the punches, take your best shot, and keep on Trucking.

Thank you for sharing that Tim. I'm very sorry for your loss. We do have to just keep going, don't we? I made the comment to the guys at work a while back that life isn't what you thought it was when you were young. The young guy had no idea what I meant, but the older guys nodded in agreement.

[Handloader109]

I'll give you my thoughts and with it what knowledge and experience I have. I'm 57, wife 56, only daughter is 25 and finishing up her degree while at home. Married 36 yrs this December. Wife has worked over the years probably 6 or 7yrs total, so we've mainly been a single income. I'm an engineer by degree and worked and spent like an idiot for the first 6 yrs, lost job thru cutbacks and moved back to MS. Got a decent job and things went well for 10 yrs until company was sold, made to another 5 yrs before Co closed, too ignorant to relocate, finally got another job in different field a worked there until recently when I was let go. Currently looking for another job. Over last few years, we've finally gotten smart or at least smarter..... No credit cards, no loans other than mortgage. Cash (or debit card). Credit will ruin your finances if you are not extremely lucky. If you can manage, stay where you are, look at Dave Ramsey and follow as much as you can. We've cut out excess and I can get by on a 30% or so pay cut. (hope I don't have to) I'm NOT moving, but I have in the past and should have moved earlier. You have to decide whether or not to do that. My wife's health has declined a lot due to heart and joint issues. So work for her is almost impossible. Up to me. But thru due diligence and work, we can retire in 10 or less years. Now to make it for those 10 yrs. I would keep shooting every now and then just for relief and a change. But get rid of what you think you can. I've done it with hobbies before. Goo luck you can do it.

[Thumbcocker]

The equipment won't spoil and it doesn't eat anything. It will be there when time and money allow more time with it.

[fatelk]

Thanks guys, good advice. I grew up in a "financially challenged" home. (I hate to use the word "poor", because I never knew we were, other than the fact that my folks pinched every penny.) I hate to live and raise my kids that way, but there are worse ways to live.

I've been through two plant closures and layoffs already, in the last 8 years. Three years ago we picked up and relocated. I was running back and forth the two hour drive between the old house I was fixing up to sell, and the temporary rental while we looked for another to buy. I was learning a new job, driving and fixing and painting on the weekends, while my wife had her hands full with four little ones, the youngest a newborn, hobbling around on a bad foot that needed surgery the first month we were here. I don't know how we got it all done, and I never want to go through that again.

The level of the financial hit we're taking came as a surprise last week, so I think I was still in shock to some degree when I first posted. Now that I've come down from that I can think clearer I realize it's far from the end of the world. I apologize if I sounded like I was whining and feeling sorry for myself. Well, I guess I was, sorry. This is just a speed bump in the road of life, and we've been through worse (including the big C).

Thanks Handloader, it's actually good to hear the stories of those who have been through tough times. It helps to realize that it's not the end of the world, and we'll get through it. The tough times I've been through in my life have been pretty darn mild compared to many others, and I'm humbled to realize that I really have nothing to complain about. Thank you everyone.

[Wayne Smith]

Something you haven't included is the age of your children. If they are old enough for sports they are old enough to pull some of the weight, even if it is nothing beyond packaging stuff for eBay. Believe me, they know the issues and will be encouraged if they can be of help in concrete ways.

[Lloyd Smale]

theres surely stuff more important then guns and casting. Sometimes life demands we do things were not happy about but we do them none the less. That your willing to give up something important to you for your family says a lot about your character. I have no good advice to give you. All I can offer is a prayer for you and your family that will ask God to help you through these tough times.

[fatelk]

My oldest is 11, youngest 3. On top of that we home-school; that might give some insight into a busy household. :)

We'll be fine. Now that a few days have passed I'm calmed down a little. I also have this distant and naive thought that perhaps they might have some second thoughts and make some adjustments in the next year or two as the brain-drain starts and they start losing a lot of really good people (experienced techs, engineers, managers) because of this. I can always hope right? I appreciate the responses, but I'm feeling a little embarrassed for making a fuss. Anyhow, thanks again for all the good words.

Definitely there are more important things in life. My focus has been changing for a while now as my kids grow, and this has been the final straw. I don't plan on getting rid of anything I use a lot or want to pass on to my kids some day, just all the extra stuff I don't need- old projects that I may or may not fiddle with some day if and when I ever retire. I have several nice hunting rifles hiding in the safe and I haven't hunted in darn near 20 years. It just not my thing and I don't really enjoy it, so why have thousands of dollars tied up in something I don't use? I probably should sell them and start a college fund with the money. Same with the thousands of rounds of surplus ammo I've accumulated over the years back when it was cheap. It's worth so much now I can't afford to shoot it. I might even sell my Dillon. I just don't shoot enough to justify having it. I really think it would be good to simplify life a little. Instead of retreating to my loading room, I'll figure out a way to use that same spare time to earn a little extra income. That and living more frugally.

[fatelk]

Some good news: I made $100 tonight moonlighting as an appliance repair tech. Had to take the whole thing apart to get a bunch of built-up gunk and crud out of the works. Something about unpaid, underage kitchen help not being careful enough.

That money will come in real handy too, because my wife just paid some guy a hundred bucks to fix our dishwasher. :)

[fatelk]

Well, it's not a matter of tightening the budget; it look like it's going to be a matter of finding another job. Open enrollment: their insurance is $550 per month MORE than I was paying, for worse health coverage. Absolutely unbelievable. On top of that, their retirement contribution is pennies in comparison also. It's not like I make a lot of money, either. My income is similar to an average tradesman.

Some people are being hit worse than me. They're subsidizing the difference for a year or two to "give us time to adjust", but in reality they just don't want everyone to quit at once and crash the entire organization. They say they're going to make things better in the meantime too, but at this point nobody trusts a word they say. Everyone in the whole organization seems to feel like I do or worse. Everyone is angry or feeling betrayed, scared that they're going to run a bunch of us out so they can replace the 30 dollar guys with 15 dollar people. Most of us would be fine with changing and working with a different name on the sign, but not if we can't support our families. One person told me to have my wife get a job, but she can't for health reasons.

I could find another job, though doubtfully in this area. My problem is that I'm just picky. Don't feel sorry for me; I know a lot of folks have it a lot worse. I don't want to raise my family in or near a big city. I don't want a job with a lot of traveling. I just got back from helping with a project in another state. I made over 1K in OT in a week, but I just hate being away from the family very long or often. Once in a while is no big deal but we would be miserable if I had to travel a lot. I just HATE to uproot the kids away from their friends and everything again.

I guess I am whining and feeling sorry for myself. Everyone goes through tough spots in life, some worse than others. I've got my family so it's not the end of the world.

[MT Gianni]

Some of the best advice I ever got was to do what works the best for you and your wife. Kids can and do make new friends, it is rare for most to ever see the people that were so important to you in high school years after 4-5 years. Kids adapt and they adapt far easier if Dad and Mom are stable and happy. Do not thing they are young enough to not sense unrest in the job market.

[leeggen]

I know this sounds goofy but start to volentier alittle time somewhere like at an old folks home or even at your childrens school in the lower grades. Read books at the library on weekends to children. Go help an old couple that needs some painting done or just some yard work for them. You will find that your spirits will rize up and things will not seem bad at all. This is not saying your situation will change but your outlook will. Good luck to ya it will get easier, not always better but at least easier to deal with.
CD