Bought another "holy grail" gun!

[Reverend Al]

Well, yesterday I bought another one of my personal "holy grail" guns ... I found a JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific model!

This one is a .40-90 Ballard with 30" octagon barrel and the bore is in very good condition. (And no, it doesn't have a bulge up need the muzzle ... that is just a shadow in the photo I took.) The muzzle is a bit banged up, but the previous owner was shooting it using .40-90 Bertram cases (20 rounds of brass came with the gun) and the RCBS 400 grain .410 Silhouette bullet. He said it would stay on the 100 yard practice pig target at his range without any trouble, so I'll shoot it a bit on paper first before I make any attempts to touch up the crown. The buttstock, buttplate, and wiping rod are replacements and the gun is medium brown, but it's nice and tight so it's nice enough to shoot, but not so nice that I'll feel guilty about shooting it.

I'll have to make a cerrosafe casting of the chamber to see if it is chambered for the .40-90 Ballard 2 15/16" case or the .40-90 Ballard Ideal "Everlasting" 3 1/16". The supplied fire-formed Bertram cases are swollen at the base ahead of rim leading me to think it is either a big chamber or that it might be the larger "Everlasting" case chambering, but the cerrosafe casting will tell the story.

Is anyone out there shooting the .40-90 Ballard cartridge that can offer me any loading tips?

Cheers,
Al

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/Reverend_Al/Marlin%20Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard/Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard%20001%20Large_zpsaekjjaxo.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Reverend_Al/media/Marlin%20Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard/Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard%20001%20Large_zpsaekjjaxo.jpg.html)

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http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/Reverend_Al/Marlin%20Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard/Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard%20007%20Large_zpshe8kqycv.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Reverend_Al/media/Marlin%20Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard/Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard%20007%20Large_zpshe8kqycv.jpg.html)

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/Reverend_Al/Marlin%20Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard/Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard%20009%20Large_zpse1b5vrjp.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Reverend_Al/media/Marlin%20Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard/Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard%20009%20Large_zpse1b5vrjp.jpg.html)

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/Reverend_Al/Marlin%20Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard/Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard%20011%20Large_zpskwqoghzo.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Reverend_Al/media/Marlin%20Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard/Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard%20011%20Large_zpskwqoghzo.jpg.html)





http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/Reverend_Al/Marlin%20Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard/Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard%20014%20Large_zpsloup0vpk.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Reverend_Al/media/Marlin%20Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard/Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard%20014%20Large_zpsloup0vpk.jpg.html)

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/Reverend_Al/Marlin%20Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard/Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard%20016%20Large_zpsydsfml1x.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Reverend_Al/media/Marlin%20Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard/Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard%20016%20Large_zpsydsfml1x.jpg.html)

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/Reverend_Al/Marlin%20Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard/Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard%20020%20Large_zpsyny6gchh.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Reverend_Al/media/Marlin%20Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard/Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard%20020%20Large_zpsyny6gchh.jpg.html)

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/Reverend_Al/Marlin%20Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard/Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard%20018%20Large_zpsauvzcfea.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Reverend_Al/media/Marlin%20Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard/Ballard%20No%205%20Pacific%20in%2040-90%20Ballard%20018%20Large_zpsauvzcfea.jpg.html)

[M-Tecs]

Very nice. I'm jealous.

[Reverend Al]

I'm ecstatic! I've wanted one of these rifles for years. I love single shot rifles ... especially 1885 Winchesters and Ballards ...

[smilie=w:

[Reverend Al]

I guess I'm going to have to delve into paper patching too. I appears to have a typical paper patch chamber ... no throat ... the rifling begins right at the end of the chamber. Sounds like all of the original factory ammunition for .40-90 were paper patched. Here is a .40-90 Ballard paper patched cartridge next to a .38-55 for comparison.

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/Reverend_Al/40-90%20Ballard%20with%2038-55%20for%20comparison_zps51awalxg.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Reverend_Al/media/40-90%20Ballard%20with%2038-55%20for%20comparison_zps51awalxg.jpg.html)

[M-Tecs]

I have two original hiwall's and a bunch of trapdoors but no Ballards.

[Reverend Al]

Anyone on here ever tried to re-form 9.3x74R brass into .40-90 Ballard "shooter" cases? Looks like it might be an opportunity to try and make some affordable "shooter" cases rather than paying $5.00 to $7.00 US per cartridge case for newly manufactured .40-90 Ballard cases!

:cry:

[Bigslug]

NICE!

Is the .40-90 simply a stretched version of the .40-65? If so, you might be able to bribe Starline into leaving a little extra tubing on some of their next batch. . .

[Hiwall55]

Nice Rifle!!! Looks like the base is about the size of a 405 Winchester. Might try Buffalo Arms for brass and if they have some might have to drive to Idaho.

[Bent Ramrod]

That's a nice Ballard Pacific!

I have a Remington Hepburn in .40-3-1/4 Straight that I have formed 9.3 x 74R cases for. I give the necks and shoulders a light anneal, prime and load them with Unique and Cream of Wheat, with a piece of thin wax in the mouth to hold things in. I kind of titrated the Unique in until I got nice straight shells out of the chamber. I held the rifle vertical when fire forming. The rims are a little thin but it doesn't seem to matter much; the loaded cartridges fire OK.

The mouths came out a little uneven, and the shells are a little short for my rifle. They might fit yours a little better. I use them mostly for smokeless loadings and use the Bertram cases for black powder loads.

My cases are larger in diameter at the base than the .405 Winchester base.

[marlinman93]

The .40-90 Ballard was not an Everlasting case. The Everlasting equivalent was the .40-85 Ballard Everlasting.
Surprised your Pacific is a "JM Marlin" marked receiver with the caliber marked on the barrel. Most with the caliber marked were "Marlin Firearms Co." marked receivers.
The 9.3x74R might not be a good choice as donor brass, as it's a bit smaller rim diameter, and the extractor may slip past the rim on opening the lever. You'd be better off getting .40-90 Sharps Straight from BACO and use them. They're almost identical to the .40-90 Ballard, (except longer) and sell for about $75 per 20 cases. Not cheap, but less work, and available.
Looks like a nice Pacific, and a great caliber once you get set up to load for it!

[Reverend Al]

I'll have to do a cerrosafe chamber casting to determine the exact chamber dimensions on this particular rifle, but after doing some more research about it I was reading page 8 of James J. Grant's book on single shot rifles where he states that the .40-90 Everlasting 2 15/16" was chambered in the Pacific Ballards up until 1881 when the "J.M. Marlin" stamping was discontinued. On page 22 he includes the information from an early Marlin catalogue that lists the No. 5 Pacific as available in .40-63 Everlasting and .40-90 Everlasting and on page 24 he pictures the cartridges including a photo of a.40/90/370 Ballard Ideal Everlasting. (Paper patched of course.) It's definitely a paper patch chamber on this rifle with the rifling beginning right at the end of the chamber. The 20 rounds of formed Bertram .40-90 that came with my rifle are bulged a fair bit at the base (and I discovered that one of them is actually vertically split for about 1" in that area) which makes me wonder if it is chambered for a slightly thicker brass Everlasting case? My Donnelly Cartridge Conversion book says to use .45 Basic to make cases so I checked a .45-70 case that was handy on the bench and the base ahead of the rim is nearly a perfect match to the dimensions at the back end of my chamber so maybe he has the right idea? Again, a casting of the chamber should tell me the complete story and give me some case dimensions to work with. These old guns sure are interesting, but they are often a bit of a puzzle too!

:???:

[Reverend Al]

PS: The serial number on this rifle is 7930 which probably makes the manufacture date at about 1878 or 1879 (at best guess) which is about 2 to 3 years before they changed the receiver stamping to "Marlin" rather than "J.M. Marlin" ... so again, another puzzle!

[marlinman93]

That's even more surprising that it's got the caliber marked on it, as I have quite a few with higher serial numbers and the JM Marlin address, but no caliber marking. Interesting.
The .40-90 should be 3 1/16" long, while the .40-85 is 2 15/16" long. According to Dutcher's reference.

[JeffinNZ]

WOW! Awesome.

[Reverend Al]

I'll see what the case length is after I do the chamber casting which should solve the mystery, plus it'll be interesting to see what the rest of the chamber dimensions come out to. I've already sent an email to Red River Rick asking him about one of his adjustable paper patch moulds for .40 calibre ...

:smile:


That's even more surprising that it's got the caliber marked on it, as I have quite a few with higher serial numbers and the JM Marlin address, but no caliber marking. Interesting.
The .40-90 should be 3 1/16" long, while the .40-85 is 2 15/16" long. According to Dutcher's reference.

[AbitNutz]

Let me just say this....I hate you.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

My only Ballard is a pre-Marlin rimfire, probably cast iron and with the hand extractor. I don't know if the Marlin Ballards retained a sliding extractor rather than a hinged one, but if they did, the 9,3x74R rim would probably be fine. It is certainly tempting to use that case if you can, since apart from cost it is likely to be RWS, and very durable.

That is far from an ideal bore, but the beginning of the rifling shows it is corroded rather than eroded. I think it ought to make a good shooter, especially with patched bullets.

[Earlwb]

Congratulations on your super nice find. I like it. It looks like a fantastic rifle. I can see that being a lot of fun to shoot too.

[marlinman93]

My only Ballard is a pre-Marlin rimfire, probably cast iron and with the hand extractor. I don't know if the Marlin Ballards retained a sliding extractor rather than a hinged one, but if they did, the 9,3x74R rim would probably be fine. It is certainly tempting to use that case if you can, since apart from cost it is likely to be RWS, and very durable.


Only the very first Marlin Ballard used the previous Brown Ballard sliding extractor. Since Marlin simply assembled guns from Brown Ballard parts, they were a Brown design, with Marlin rollstamp. That was the #0 Ballard, and a very rare gun!
After the #0 all Ballards had John Marlin's patented automatic extractor that drew the case back as the lever was opened.

Rev. Al, you should be able to shoot an outside lubed bullet with no problems at all. All the early Ballards had a very gentle transition from chamber to bore. It works very well with lubed bullets, and actually much better than modern chambers that all seem to use the 45 degree transition, which often creates lead rings, and poor accuracy.

[Reverend Al]

Thanks for all of the extra information everyone ... it all helps! I do have about 50 or 60 of the RCBS 400 grain conventional, grooved boolits that came with the rifle so I'll definitely shoot them and see how they perform. (Unfortunately I didn't get that mould with this gun as he had borrowed it from a friend to cast a few to shoot in it for testing.) Again, the previous owner was shooting that boolit with 80 grains of FFG and hitting the steel silhouette practice pig at 100 yards at his local range without any trouble, so I'm being optimistic and hoping that this gun will have some reasonable accuracy potential ... and if not it'll still be a lot of fun to shoot!

[Reverend Al]

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/Reverend_Al/kid-sticking-out-his-tongue_zpsbd486hu6.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Reverend_Al/media/kid-sticking-out-his-tongue_zpsbd486hu6.jpg.html)


Let me just say this....I hate you.

[Reverend Al]

Ooops ... couldn't help myself ...

:wink: