Making 308 win from never fired 308 blanks

[Negster]

I was looking for some thicker necked brass for a factory rifle I have and found this to be a good option. My father picked up these blanks when he was a kid and had lots of fun with the powder. Im going to load a few and see if the primers will go off and fire form them in my rifle.

http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q701/negster82/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_154039_zpsssjww4yx.jpg (http://s1355.photobucket.com/user/negster82/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_154039_zpsssjww4yx.jpg.html)

I started by chucking a case in my mini lathe and cutting off the extra neck portion.

http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q701/negster82/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_153644_zps6ueds2zh.jpg (http://s1355.photobucket.com/user/negster82/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_153644_zps6ueds2zh.jpg.html)

Hit it with a quick inside debur

http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q701/negster82/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_154152_zpszw9g0gkd.jpg (http://s1355.photobucket.com/user/negster82/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_154152_zpszw9g0gkd.jpg.html)

Next I ran them over my tapered expander ball but didnt run them all the way up the die. The necks are around .022 thick which should be just about right for what I need.

http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q701/negster82/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_153813_zpsrjihpw9u.jpg (http://s1355.photobucket.com/user/negster82/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_153813_zpsrjihpw9u.jpg.html)
http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q701/negster82/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_153848_zpscdthg3aa.jpg (http://s1355.photobucket.com/user/negster82/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_153848_zpscdthg3aa.jpg.html)

Last they get a trim and debur and ready to load.

http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q701/negster82/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_153917_zpsy64fkn0o.jpg (http://s1355.photobucket.com/user/negster82/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160619_153917_zpsy64fkn0o.jpg.html)

Chris

[762sultan]

I have lots of those blanks but have never done anything with them. I had the idea that they were sub standard rejects. They may be okay to use but I am not that desperate for 308 brass which is available almost everywhere.

[lotech]

Looks to me like they would be the same, but I've read more than once (long before the Internet) that military "blank" cases were inferior to those used in the production of standard ammunition and should not be used for handloading. This may be nothing more than a rumor, but perhaps there are more knowledgeable people on this forum that would know the facts.

[Hamish]

Great post Negster, thanks very much for taking the time and effort. I'm pretty dubious about question of blank brass being "sub standard", especially for cast loads.

[GRUMPA]

I have lots of those blanks around here, and here's the skinny. Those are not made the same way regular LC military brass is made. The blanks have less zinc in the mix which results in some rather soft brass. The blank cases I have I use strictly for making the 45 shot shell loads, they work great for that.

[DLCTEX]

I have lots of those blanks around here, and here's the skinny. Those are not made the same way regular LC military brass is made. The blanks have less zinc in the mix which results in some rather soft brass. The blank cases I have I use strictly for making the 45 shot shell loads, they work great for that.

That is the only use I have for them also, having been advised of the same about the brass years ago.

[Hickory]

I tried this with a dozen 5.56 blanks. The result as lot of split cases on the second loading/firing.
Not worth doing in my opinion.

[Motor]

It's not worth the effort or the risk. Those casings were never intended to see 50,000+psi. How do you know that they won't fail?

Maybe use them for low pressure sub-sonic cast loads.

Motor

[too many things]

CAN ANYONE show proof they are not same brass????? come on not here say concrete PROOF
DIDNT THINK SO
blank brass is NOT heat treated and if not done will split
weigh the ones you have done and you will find they really weigh more.
I don't have lath but have used a wet saw and left them in the M60 clips and cut several 100s.
the I heat treated them and they work fine . depends on the primer crimp but all I have seen has the 3 dots but have found some are deep and have to de burr
the powder is same a 7 and good for pistol loads
OH as not worth the effort???
look at all we do, think its for making money??

[dh2]

.308 Win brass is not hard for me to get I was given good bundle of 7.62 x 51 mm LC brass from the sniper training range I wich I could get more but it will last me a long time

[Brasso]

The brass used to make the 7.62 blanks comes from the same brass strips as for the standard 7.62 ball. Its made on the same machines. All this talk of inferior brass is rumor and bunk. See "The Handloader Magazine" Vol. No. 27, Sept-Oct 1970, Converting 7.62 Nato Blanks by Richard G. Ahlefeld. 7.62 Nato blanks to full power .243 Win loads.

[Bonz]

CAN ANYONE show proof they are not same brass????? come on not here say concrete PROOF
DIDNT THINK SO
blank brass is NOT heat treated and if not done will split
weigh the ones you have done and you will find they really weigh more.
I don't have lath but have used a wet saw and left them in the M60 clips and cut several 100s.
the I heat treated them and they work fine . depends on the primer crimp but all I have seen has the 3 dots but have found some are deep and have to de burr
the powder is same a 7 and good for pistol loads
OH as not worth the effort???
look at all we do, think its for making money??

Wonder if that would show up under XRF

[Don Fischer]

I can't believe the OP is going to all this bother to sane a few penny's on what is probably out most inexpensive brass! But then again I'd probably do the same thing. It become's a disease!

[17nut]

I know for a fact that Starline makes a way larger flash hole in their Blank cases:
https://www.starlinebrass.com/order-online/blank.cfm

Might check hole size before a primer in a full house load blows back.

[Negster]

Flash hole is .080

[rmatchell]

I made some 6.5x55 from 308 blanks. Only used for lite cast loads but had no issues.

[toallmy]

I believe Negster was looking to make up some thicker necked brass for a specific purpose .

[too many things]

well question has been answered .
yes star line does on THEIR blanks and the cowboy brass for BP but hole is same on military
so put the rumor to rest the brass is same but not heat treated
many of the swagers would like those cut offs as they are soft

[Negster]

When you say not heat treated do you mean the necks are not annealed? Or is the entire case treated different? I am looking for thicker necked brass for my factory rifle, not for any real reason other then I want to see how well I can make it shoot. I have 300 or so once fired LC cases so its not that I am trying to save any money. I am just getting into forming and learning about this stuff. All of this info is awesome. I may go the route of "trust but verify" and load a few and see how many firings I get out of them. Ill report back if I still have enough fingers to type :)

[toallmy]

Watch your neck thickness so as to not over pressure your rounds , I don't know about the blanks hardness but I sized some LC lr brass for my 243 to get a little tighter fit and it worked . I don't have a problem with the donuts because my bullets are BT jacket barely in the neck of the brass . Always be careful .

[762sultan]

Negster... when you get results from your test please post them. I have several thousand and could put them to good use with cast boolit loads. I was just going to scrap them with other old worn out brass and I'm glad I saved them. I guess that's just the hoarder in me. And thanks to all the posters who had the correct answer to this question. That's why I love this forum.

[wch]

Military blanks are made from once-fired standard cartridge cases.

[Brasso]

wch,
Thats TOTAL BS. Thats how stupid rumors get started.

[wch]

That "rumor" was started by an Army ordnance officer of my acquaintance, a man for whom I have the greatest respect.

[ulav8r]

There's no way that extended, small diameter neck is formed from once fired brass! I picked up a few fired blanks in the late 60's, and that extended neck is not added onto a standard case, it is an integral part of the case.

[wch]

The blanks that I was speaking of (and those that I have in my possession) are not those with extended necks. The blanks that I have are the standard 308 issued by the Army for use in the M-14 rifle and they were made from once-fired cartridge cases.
The NATO blanks are of modern manufacture and may be of doubtful origin or metallurgy, regardless.

[lotech]

The back and forth opinions (including mine) regarding the safety aspects of salvaging military blank cartridge brass is of little worth. The aforementioned HANDLOADER article does not address the safety aspects or the strength of the brass in any way. The author merely states he was aware of negative remarks about such brass but used it anyway for conventional loading. Subsequent long-term use of this brass is unknown. If I had a large quantity of this stuff and was determined to use it, I'd find the right source within the military and get the real story.

Brass may be more expensive than ever, but good brass with a known pedigree is cheap insurance.

[rockshooter]

I have been using 5.56 military blank cases cut down to 300 Blk for a couple of years now and have not had any issues with it.
Loren

[KenT7021]

Blanks for the cal..30 M2 round were made using once fired brass when available.I don't recall seeing 7.62 NATO blanks in the same configuration.All I saw was made with the extended neck for machine gun use.

[aephilli822]

Remember the Israeli wooden bullet blank 'vampire ammo'?

[Negster]

Well I made it to the range today and fired 2 cases that I made from blanks. No split necks and everything went well. I loaded them with 32.6grs of Varget with Hornady 168gt HPBT and seated .010 off the lands. They did sound and feel a lot weaker then the Hornady factory rounds I was shooting. I did fire them over a chrony but it failed to pick them up for some reason but it got the 20 factory rounds before them. The shoulders moved foward .005 and the OA length shrunk .002. I only plan to neck size on the next reload and may up the charge some and hope the chrony picks them up.

Chris

[Greg S]

Years ago I bought a few Hirtenburger 7.62 blanks. I use them in a SCAR 17 with no problems except for the small flash hole. A little bit of work and you have a primed 308 case at 3.5 cents each. I original bought them for a Cetme but as with all fluted chambers, they are hard on brass so, it went down the road. I was loosing 40-50% of the brass on the 2nd firing in the resizing process. They hold up well in the SCAR, some are on their 4th or 5th firing.

For making them, I used amDillon RT case trimmer, then used a FL sizer die with a tapered expander similar to one in the photo and basically partially FL sized the brass. For the first reloading, deprime, clean, uniform the flash hols with a Sinclair reamer, Fl size in a Redding body die to chamber -.002, neck size, prime, ect.

[Motor]

"CAN ANYONE show proof they are not same brass?????"
Don't you just love statements like this?

How about. CAN ANYONE SHOW PROOF THAT THEY ARE???????

Considering that you are controlling oved 50,000 psi just a couple inches from your brain, I would much rather have proof that they are rather than LACK of proof that they are not. But that's just my opinion.

Motor

[mold maker]

The 308 blank brass is subject to be used for my project of 45 ACP shotshells, but I don't have any.


Check that. In my mail today is a care package of 308 brass for my project.
Thanks Jonathan

[JSnover]

I think the so-called 'vampire blanks' were for use with rifle grenades.

[Drm50]

I have 5 ammo cans of metal linked 30/06 blanks, for the updated 1919s before the M60/ 7.62
replaced them. I never thought about making anything out of them. They are long neck type extruded
new. There is crimped blanks for rifle gernade and line throwing guns that could have been made
from empties. They are color coded by Laquer on crimp. I forget the code after 46 yrs.

[Negster]

These were linked blanks once upon a time. They came from the fort DesMoines training grounds. I think he said he found an entire belt unfired.

[higgins]

There should be a military specification somewhere for 7.62 and 5.56 blank ammo that should specify the alloy of the brass used. That would settle the argument about the quality of brass used in blank ammo vs. ball ammo. anyone have access to that?

[Negster]

Firing #2 and no split necks the OA is now 2.008. I upped the charge to 41.7gr of varget this time. Ill probably shoot them again on Tuesday. Neck sizing these is crazy hard since the neck is so thick. It runs up into the die fine but coming back out over the expander is a bear. Ill need to get a bushing die to help extend the life.

[GONRA]

GONRA's just guessing - but pretty sure some cartridge collector would love to have Drm50's olde .30-06 blanks!

[kywoodwrkr]

Maybe of interest:
http://www.pt103.gdinc.com/manuals/Ammo_TM_9_1305_Small_Arms_Ammunition_1961_June.pdf
1961 but has technical data.
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a094136.pdf
For some of those annealing questions.
And-(automatic download PDF) Primer pocket hardness information
www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA497469

[Negster]

3rd firing yesterday and everything looks fine.
They went over the chrony at 2570 and 2628FPS
Ill neck size them again and take them with me on my next range trip.

Chris

[Negster]

4th firing today and still looking good. No split necks or head separation.
Reload and do it again.

[Negster]

5th fire went well off to do it again.

Chris

[Sanchez]

Not bad. Only 5 weeks from conversion to 5x fired .........
Sure wish that I could find some consistent trigger time such as this.

[Negster]

6th firing was last night.
I forgot to check for head separation but primer pockets still feel great and no splits.
Im not sure I would call this quality trigger time it usually goes like this

Sneak out of the house
Wife catches me
Go anyways
step out of the car
fire both pieces of brass im testing
Drive home
Sit in dog house

[deltaenterprizes]

I made one thicker neck 308 brass by necking down a 30'06 case, increases neck thickness by .003"

[toallmy]

Trigger time , is trigger time get it when you can .

[Sanchez]

Same here.
Have found that R-P & Fed are the thickest-walled domestic brass (also very soft), Olin & Hornady are thinnest/hardest.
Converting to .308/7.62 NATO is relatively simple, as most of the shoulder is wiped-out in the process.
Converting to 8x57mm normally leaves a slight ring bulge or step right in the (new) neck area, & I've even been able to measure it at times. Looks like all hell, but hasn't caused me too much grief over the years.


I made one thicker neck 308 brass by necking down a 30'06 case, increases neck thickness by .003"

[Negster]

7th was last night and already primed and ready to go again. No signs of failure. They went across the Chronograph at 2501 and 2526. Im not sure if im pushing then very hard but thats a 168gr bullet with 4064. I may try a little hotter and see how they hold up.

Chris

[Negster]

8th time today with 45gr of 4064 and a 168gr bullet. Recoil seemed to be more then usual but the cases held up and are already loaded and ready to go again.

Chris

[Negster]

fired 9 times

[azrednek]

The brass used to make the 7.62 blanks comes from the same brass strips as for the standard 7.62 ball. Its made on the same machines. All this talk of inferior brass is rumor and bunk. .

I tend to agree. I can't speak with first hand knowledge with 762 blanks. Back in the 70's when most brass was only available by buying loaded factory ammo. I re-formed hundreds of 30/06 blanks into 7X57, 765 Argie, 7.7 Jap and 8X57. I did have some split necks but after learning how to anneal shoulders in once fired brass in one of Barnes Cartridges of the World. Split necks were rare.