Lee's C329-205-1R for 8x57?

[Black Wolf]

I'm looking to cast bullets for my Mausers (all of which so far have slugged at .324). Was wondering if anyone can suggest for or against the Lee 329-205-1R mold. If it is a possibility to use, I'd size them to .325. I'm using WQ WWs with Lee Alox.

Or should I just use Lee's C324-175-1R (which I was apprehensive about getting since it supposedly will cast AT my bore size).

TIA - BW

[Freightman]

I have no expierence with the boolit you ask about but do have a KBR mould by LEE it is a huge thing 240+ gr with a very large nose shoots fine if you size the nose to .308 but will not chambe in my Turk otherwise, also have the C34-175-1R and ti is fine sized .325 in my Turk with a lot less hasstle than the KBR mould, feeds better also. you can also size it down for the large bore Enfields and MN's you might have, a very useful boolit.

[Ricochet]

The C324-175-1R works fine in all of my Mausers sized at .323", because that's the only sizer Lee offers as standard for the "normal" 8mms. I'd use a .325" if they offered it, but don't plan to order a custom one or go to the trouble of honing one out when .323" has been working well.

[Larry Gibson]

Black Wolf

That mould should shoot fine. Test 28-32 gr of H4895 in 1 gr increments with a 3/4 gr dacron filler. With well cast bullets accuracy in that range should be very good.

Larry Gibson

[Black Wolf]

Black Wolf

That mould should shoot fine. Test 28-32 gr of H4895 in 1 gr increments with a 3/4 gr dacron filler. With well cast bullets accuracy in that range should be very good.

Larry Gibson


Thanks Larry - I actually have some H4895 on hand that I use for my cast boolits in my M1 Garand (37 gr of H4895 pushing a 155 gr GC WQ/WW) and I get about a 2.5" group at 80 yrds.

Ricochet - I decided to order from Lee a custom .325 sizing die (It was only $25 so I figured I'd go that way). I also ordered from them a 41 Swiss (10.4x38R) die set (Midway has them on back-order).

[Buckshot]

Thanks Larry - I actually have some H4895 on hand that I use for my cast boolits in my M1 Garand (37 gr of H4895 pushing a 155 gr GC WQ/WW) and I get about a 2.5" group at 80 yrds.

Ricochet - I decided to order from Lee a custom .325 sizing die (It was only $25 so I figured I'd go that way). I also ordered from them a 41 Swiss (10.4x38R) die set (Midway has them on back-order).

..............The Lee push through sizers have a very narrow ring at the top of the taper that does the sizing. You can lose a thousandth almost just by staring hard at it :-) I have a VZ 24/47 that's in really nice shape and is in a superb Elm stock. It's groove is a couple tenths over .325" so I bought the Lee C329-205R mould for it.

The mould drops slugs a tad over .330". I lube-size to .329" and then send then up through a Lee .323" sizer I opened to .326". Just that thousandth over the .325" I'd been sizing before made a VAST improvement in accuracy. The throat can stand another thousandth so as soon as I find where I laid my Rountuit I'll take the die out a bit more.

Remember, your dies were made for jacketed bullets vs cast boolits and your sizer will size more then you'd like, and the seater will probably balk at a .325" slug. If it WILL take the larger slug, you're gold. If not you could probably use a 338 seater die. Not much to be done about the size die barring a diamond lap or carbide boring bar to open the neck area.

However the death grip it will put on your new nice fat .325" cast boolit may squeeze it back down to .323" (or less). Need a Lyman type 'M' die neck expander with a .324" OD. It's a helluvathing to squeeze a caseneck down that far for no good reason, and then expand it back up, but when they're thinking "Jacketed" that's what happens.

................Buckshot

[Nrut]

Buckshot ...I am thinking on getting a 8X57 Lee Collet neck sizer so I don't have to size the case neck down so grossly...I am shooting .326" boolits....Have you ever fooled with the Lee collet die and will that idea work?

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/textcart.cgi?&acct_num=1211260877.2327&CODE=1040&CATEGORY=Rifle+Dies

[Ricochet]

Just a thought: Next standard Lee sizer up from .323" is .329". If one were to take boolits cast at, say, .325" and run them through the .329" die to crimp on checks, and flare the case mouths of the 8x57 cases run through the standard undersized (for jacketed) sizing die just enough to start the checks, what would the oversized .329" checks do? Would the case necks size them down further if the alloy wasn't too hard? Would the necks be stretched by the checks and end up too loose on the boolit shanks? Might the extra seating force cause problems with boolit nose distortion? Is it just a bad idea all around, or might it work?

Yeah, I know there are ways to work around crimping a check on without sizing boolits, like holding the checked boolit base down into a Factory Crimp Die of appropriate size and actuating it. A .30 caliber one is about right for an 8mm boolit and check.

[Buckshot]

Buckshot ...I am thinking on getting a 8X57 Lee Collet neck sizer so I don't have to size the case neck down so grossly...I am shooting .326" boolits....Have you ever fooled with the Lee collet die and will that idea work?

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/textcart.cgi?&acct_num=1211260877.2327&CODE=1040&CATEGORY=Rifle+Dies

..............Gee, I'm sorry I missed this. Almost a month gone by! I made a new mandrel for the Lee collet die so it didn't size the caseneck down so far. BTW, the collet dies don't seem to size down as much as the regular dies do.

................Buckshot

[Nrut]

Buckshot...
I PM'ed you the same day I posted the above and you answered my question...I did order a Lee collet die for the 8X57 and it should be here next week...If the factory mandrel isn't large enough I would like to commission you to make a larger one...:mrgreen:l

[Ricochet]

BTW, the collet dies don't seem to size down as much as the regular dies do. True. Often becomes a problem with jacketed bullets.

[Black Wolf]

Black Wolf

That mould should shoot fine. Test 28-32 gr of H4895 in 1 gr increments with a 3/4 gr dacron filler. With well cast bullets accuracy in that range should be very good.

Larry Gibson

Larry - I ran out of H4895 while I was waiting for this mold to come. I bought some IMR-4895 to replace it (store didn't have H4895 in stock). Would 28-32 gr of IMR-4895 work for this 8mm. I tried 25 gr of Reloder 7 and was shooting about 1.5 feet low - had to use the 400m sight at 80 yards just to hit paper. I'd like to get the bullet to shoot on paper using the 100m sight.

[kjg]

Larry, the dacron filler you have mentioned in the above, I'm courious, I have never used any type of filler what so ever, I do realize some of you fella are getting great results, my question is just how much filler is needed? is it wieghed by grains or feel? the idea of a filler makes me real nervous in bottleneck cartriges, please tell me the major benifits to adding it. thanks kjg

[dabsond]

Try the Lee C324-175-1R through a .324 sizer. Hornady gas checks installed over 17 grains of 2400. You will like the results.

[Black Wolf]

Well - I got around to shooting my Lee 329-205-1R, sized down to .325 with my Lee Custom Sizing Die I had them make for me, gas checked and Alox lubed. I tried a couple different powders. I first tried RL-7, and with the best load (25 gr) I shot about 4.5 inch group at 80 yards. Not impressive - but on paper. I was disappointed that I had to raise my leaf sight on my k98 to 400m. So, I tried IMR-4895, and with the best load (29 gr) I shot about a 3.5 inch group at 80 yards. Better group - but still a little larger than desired, and still had to use my 400m setting. More experimenting to do, but I had no problem seating the bullet in the brass with the Lee die set and the bullets chambered normal. I think I got a winner combination if I can just get the powder/loads tweaked to group of 3" or less.

Also, I've reloaded this Remington brass like 8 times and does not show any signs of stretching, splits or anything and it's still way below Max OAL for the brass. Is this normal?

[GrizzLeeBear]

...I was disappointed that I had to raise my leaf sight on my k98 to 400m...

8x57 heavy ball ammo is loaded with a 197 gr. at 2400 - 2500 fps. and that is what the sights are regulated for. So, unless you can find an accurate load at those velocities (very unlikely with cast), you will have to live with using the higher setting, no big deal. Find an accurate load at a lower velocity and use whatever sight setting you need to and be happy.
I think you can go up a ways with the 4895 as far as pressure, but accuracy might go away at the higher velocities. If you still want the velocity you might try paper patching.

Accuracy is where you find it.

[45 2.1]

8x57 heavy ball ammo is loaded with a 197 gr. at 2400 - 2500 fps. and that is what the sights are regulated for. So, unless you can find an accurate load at those velocities (very unlikely with cast), you will have to live with using the higher setting, no big deal. Find an accurate load at a lower velocity and use whatever sight setting you need to and be happy.
I think you can go up a ways with the 4895 as far as pressure, but accuracy might go away at the higher velocities. Accuracy is where you find it.

You have to put the time in to get that accuracy. Regretably, this attitude is the outgrowth of some of the RPM discussions it seems. Accuracy at high velocity is quite achievable. If you want to slap something together without considering quite a few factors, you can get 2 to 3 MOA accuracy, even with a boolit nose that is two thousandths undersize as has been done by one of the RPM advocates. Several people here have reported those accuracy figures, so anyone here should be able to get that just from reading posts on the subject. If you really put some time and effort into it AND take everything into account, you can get much better accuracy.

[bdgackle]

Just an FYI, perhaps you already know this, but the 0.329 bullets are intended for the 8x56R Hungarian caliber. It's an "8mm", but it uses the larger bullet size... I believe that Lee die, along with jacketed bullets from Hornady, are the only two sources of projectiles for that particular rifle.

Lee also sells a die set for 8x56R that they have in stock periodically. If you need to seat relatively "fat" bullets for the 8x57, perhaps parts from that die set could be useful to you -- either the seater die from that set ,or some part of it. I've never tried it myself, but thought I'd throw it out there.

[Black Wolf]

.....that's why I sized them down to .325 - shoots good with the right load out my K98 now.
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i72/rterwilliger/K98-2/8mmReloder-725grn.jpg