30 cal help for beginner.

[Coopaloop86]

All right guys, so I have been lurking on this page since I started reloading and finally I decided to take the plunge and start casting my own boolits. I have been slowly accumulating all the necessary supplies and reading every thread and today I cast my first bucket of .30 caliber boolits. I produced roughly 150 of the most beautiful boolits I've ever laid eyes on... the problem arose when I tried to size them. I used a lee C312-155-2R and the boolits came out great, however they will NOT go through my .311 sizing die. I finally gave up before I broke my Lee 4 turret press and now I have a boolit stuck in my sizing die. They were precoated in liquid alox.... The only thing I can think is maybe I cast them too hard? They were standard COWW with 2oz per 5lbs of 95/5 solder added and ice water quenched. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[OS OK]

Those may be pretty hard after quenching see the footnote. You may need a single stage press with a powerful stroke. You may need to polish the sizer some, make sure the lead is lubed with Hornady 'one shot' or equal.
What act. size are they coming out of the mold? Are you using a micrometer or caliper?





Lead Alloy Calculator


7/6/12







by bumpo628


Description
Tin %
Antimony %
Arsenic %
Copper %
Silver %
Lead %
Weight (lbs)
Hardness


40 to 1
2.44%
0%
0%
0%
0%
97.6%

Brinell 8


30 to 1
3.23%
0%
0%
0%
0%
96.8%

Brinell 9


25 to 1
3.85%
0%
0%
0%
0%
96.2%

Brinell 9


20 to 1
4.76%
0%
0%
0%
0%
95.2%

Brinell 10


16 to 1
5.88%
0%
0%
0%
0%
94.1%

Brinell 11


10 to 1
9.09%
0%
0%
0%
0%
90.9%

Brinell 12













Pure Antimony
0%
100.00%
0%
0%
0%
0.0%

Brinell 50


Chilled Shot
0%
2.00%
0.625%
0%
0%
97.4%

Brinell 10


Magnum Shot (6 or 9)
0%
4.00%
1.25%
0%
0%
94.8%

Brinell 13


Magnum Shot (7 - 8.5)
0%
6.00%
1.25%
0%
0%
92.8%

Brinell 13


Antimonial Lead
0%
5.00%
0%
0%
0%
95.0%

Brinell 13


Rotometals Super Hard
0%
30.00%
0%
0%
0%
70.0%

Brinell 36













40/60 Solder
40.00%
0%
0%
0%
0%
60.0%

Brinell 15


50/50 Solder
50.00%
0%
0%
0%
0%
50.0%

Brinell 14


60/40 Solder
60.00%
0%
0%
0%
0%
40.0%

Brinell 16


63/37 Solder
63.00%
0%
0%
0%
0%
37.0%

Brinell 17


Pewter
92.50%
6.00%
0%
1.50%
0%
0.0%

Brinell 23


Lead Free 95/5 Solder (Cu)
95.00%
0%
0%
5.00%
0%
0.0%

Brinell 15


Lead Free 95/5 Solder (Sb)
95.00%
5.00%
0%
0%
0%
0.0%
0.125
Brinell 15


Lead Free 95/5 Solder (Ag)
96.00%
0%
0%
0%
4.00%
0.0%

Brinell 15


Pure Tin
100.00%
0%
0%
0%
0%
0.0%
0
Brinell 7













Electrotype
2.50%
2.50%
0%
0%
0%
95.0%

Brinell 11


Linotype
4.00%
12.00%
0%
0%
0%
84.0%

Brinell 19


Stereotype
6.00%
14.00%
0%
0%
0%
80.0%

Brinell 23


Monotype
9.00%
19.00%
0%
0%
0%
72.0%

Brinell 26


Foundrytype
15.00%
23.00%
0%
0%
0%
62.0%

Brinell 30













Pure Lead
0%
0%
0%
0%
0%
100.0%
0
Brinell 5


Stick On Wheel Weight
0.25%
0%
0%
0%
0%
99.8%

Brinell 6


Range Lead (avg.)
0.17%
1.00%
0%
0%
0%
98.8%

Brinell 10


Clip On Wheel Weight
0.50%
3.00%
0.25%
0%
0%
96.3%
5
Brinell 12


Isotope Lead (lg. cores)
1.00%
3.00%
0%
0%
0%
96.0%

Brinell 11


Isotope Lead (ingots)
2.50%
2.50%
0%
0%
0%
95.0%

Brinell 11


Lyman No. 2
5.00%
5.00%
0%
0%
0%
90.0%

Brinell 15


Hardball Alloy
2.00%
6.00%
0%
0%
0%
92.0%

Brinell 16













Custom Alloy
0.00%
0.00%
0.00%
0.00%
0.00%
100.0%

Brinell 9


Custom Alloy
0.00%
0.00%
0.00%
0.00%
0.00%
100.0%

Brinell 9













Mixed Alloy
Tin %
Antimony %
Arsenic %
Copper %
Silver %
Lead %
Weight
Est. Hardness
12.2




2.8%
3.05%
0.24%
0.00%
0.00%
93.9%
5.1





















Notes:


Yellow fields are input for the formula.








Antimony content increases hardness. Tin content improves mold fill-out and adds a little hardness.
Calculator Update Page (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=105952)


Boolits with more than 6% Antimony will be too brittle. Copper content increases hardness.



Arsenic is a grain refiner that greatly improves heat treating and quenching in lead/antimony alloys.


Hollow points intended for hunting/expansion should be about 2% Sn and 2% Sb.




Water quenching increases hardness. For example, WW alloy can go from 12 up to 18.




Estimated hardness calculated by Rotometals formula: Brinell = 8.60 + ( 0.29 * %Tin ) + ( 0.92 * %Antimony )



According to Missouri Bullet, the optimum Brinell Hardness = CUP / 1279.8. See your load data for the CUP.



References:


www.castboolits.gunloads.com (http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/)
.
www.lasc.us/SuperHard.htm (http://www.lasc.us/SuperHard.htm)
.

www.lasc.us/WiljenArsenic.htm (http://www.lasc.us/WiljenArsenic.htm)
Solder Ref. (http://www.canadametal.com/pdf/solder_tech.pdf)


www.missouribullet.com/technical.php (http://www.missouribullet.com/technical.php)
.
www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm (http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm)
.

www.lasc.us/HeatTreat.htm (http://www.lasc.us/HeatTreat.htm)
.


www.fellingfamily.net/isolead/index.html (http://www.fellingfamily.net/isolead/index.html)
.
www.midwayusa.com (http://www.midwayusa.com/)
.

From Ingot to Target - Glen Fryxell (http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm)
.


Where to buy lead:


Castboolits Vendor Sales (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?f=52)
Castboolits Swappin & Sellin (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?f=18)

RotoMetals.com (http://www.rotometals.com/Bullet-Casting-Alloys-s/5.htm)
MissouriBullet.com (http://www.missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=92&category=12&secondary=&keywords=)

[JSnover]

You can knock the boolit out with a pin punch or brass rod, maybe squirt some oil in first and let it soak for a bit.
Try the next batch without quenching. What size are they dropping from the mold?

[toallmy]

What size did they come out of the mold as cast ? I believe that mold may be for a larger caliber . Try putting case lube on a few before sizing . Tell us more ...............

[trapper9260]

I do not know if this will help I cast just with COWW and add a GC and lube and size them in my press and works for me.You can try that also beside what is stated.

[Don Fischer]

My only 30 cal mold is a Lee and it's a 309 dia. Use a 309 sizing die also. I have a 311 sizer but don't recall why I got it! I can drop bullet's through it. Just looked in my Lyman reload manual and the 7.62 Russian is a 311 dia. I'd just melt down and start again. Seem's I read where some guys use that dia bullet in 30 cal but I wouldn't try it myself.

[Yodogsandman]

Boolits that are water quenched harden up quickly, within one day they'll almost double in hardness. It's much easier to size on the same day you cast them after water quenching, before they harden up too much.

I needed to use a pipe on the press handle to get enough leverage to remove the stuck boolit when I found out.

[.22-10-45]

I am puzzled as to why some people think they need rock hard bullets..especially when one is just starting out with cast. I have a pre-war (WW1) German 7X57 Mauser sporting rifle. This one likes heavy loads! In fact I am well up into jacketed bullet powder charge weights..and the accuracy just keeps getting better! My shoulder behind this light 6 1/2 Lb. rifle is the limiting factor. Anyway, the alloly I am using is nothing more than plain old range lead mixed with some wheeleweights and 50-50 solder..real scientific I know..but it works..and there is absolutly no leading.

[OS OK]

He said that he is new to casting...

[Coopaloop86]

Thanks guys! Its looking like I just learned my first lesson the hard way... seems likely that this batch was just for practice. The good news is I really don't mind.I'll recast them today and nix the water and let them air cool and see how that pans out.

[Kraschenbirn]

May be a dumb question but are you certain you culled all the zinc out of your COWWs?? Don't ask how I know but boolits cast from zinc-contaminated COWW and water-quenched will be much harder than those cast from straight WW alloy.

Bill

[Coopaloop86]

These are going to be for 7.62x39 not a .30 carbine. I just said .30 cal because I have several different rifles in various .30 caliber configurations and my original thoughts were to drop a larger than necessary boolit and then size it accordingly as needed. Seems that the consensus is to size the same day, luckily I bought several molds and sizing dies.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Polish sizing die 600, 800 and finer, spinning on drill. Walmart auto area has the fine grit paper. You are POLISHING, not expanding the hole. Should help in all sizing.

[toallmy]

I remelted a bunch to start with I latter discovered my lead and mold were to cool , I called it practice casting . First lesson of many to come . Keep on it it will work .

[Coopaloop86]

Thanks for the advice and encouragement, im hooked!

[runfiverun]

sometimes just adjusting the sizing die up or down will make a huge difference on the force needed to size.
I found this out de-rimming 22 cases [yep the diminutive 22 lr] just adjusting the die up or down made the difference between hanging off the handle [literally] and being able to one hand push them through.

[HangFireW8]

I have that Lee C312-155 mold, it is a good one but mine casts at .314 or .3145. If yours does too, no surprise it is hard to size.

Nothing wrong with shooting very hard bullets, as long as they are not undersized!

[Mohawk Daddy]

I can't speak for you, but as another noob caster I have been more paranoid about leading a barrel than anything else. Consequently I made the same mistake but with the Lee 185-312; too much pewter in the pot plus water quenching = unable to size to 311. Saved the boolits by loading for a 7.62x54R that likes them fat. Still trying to get over the belief that cast needs to be armor piercing to prevent leading. And thanks to runfiverun for the tip. I'll try it.

[Yodogsandman]

Seems that the consensus is to size the same day, luckily I bought several molds and sizing dies.

Size the same day when water quenching.

Wait a few days to a week to size boolits when using them air cooled. This allows the lead alloy crystals to more fully form after casting. Otherwise they will "grow" in diameter after sizing.

[popper]

reheat those boolits and let them air cool. You don't need that hard for x39. If you have a MAPP torch, just melt the stuck one out, you can even use your melter pot. You may need to size down in steps to prevent distorting the boolits.

[robg]

Try shooting them as cast .if they work OK problem solved.

[Coopaloop86]

Thanks guys! It never even crossed my mind to just heat them up. I was about to just recast. Thanks for all of the advice, saved me a lot of man hours of work.