what type of steel to use

[waydownsouth]

What type of steel would you recomend to make a set of dies for swageing .22rf jackets ?
Do i use the same steel for the knock out pin on the point form die ?

[scb]

If I were making them I'd use A-2 to begin with, because I have it laying around. If it wasn't satisfactory I'd try either the D or M series (M-2, D-2). MSC Industrial Supply has it, not cheap.

[waydownsouth]

Thanks for that scb iv just spent the morning asking silly questions at the local steel supplyers and getting silly answers.

One sales man even tried telling me mild steel would do.

The A-2 looks to be the better one to machine but harder heat treat

The M-2 harder to machine but easyer to heat treat

4140 was mentioned by one place any thoughts ?

MSC industries might be a bit far away im on a little island just south of Australia on the way to Antarctica.

i have been reloading and casting bullits for a few years. I new that .22rf jackets could be used to make projectiles but untill i found this site didnt now how.

I have just started an Engineering course in the hope of finding an apprenticeship as a fitter and turner at the end of the year. i have access to lathes and milling machines including cnc and thought a set of swaging dies would be a good project to work on.

[georgeld]

wow, that is way down south!

Do you have access to oil well sucker rod? Especially if it's over an inch dia. That's real good tool steel, will need to be annealed before turning though. Most any kind of good steel like that would be good.

IF you have access to a shop full of machinery. There's steel available. Ask the older guys in the shop. Is there a proper heat treating dept there too? They'd be good to know too.

Sounds like you've been asking the wrong guys. But, hard to know who you might have around that would know. Older machinist, or HT type's is best I can come up with.

Good luck,

I'm on the way to completion of the lead wire swaging press, getting close and looking good.

[Buckshot]

..................You're dealing with brass, and ANY steel is much more durable then ANY brass (any CLEAN brass). I would be much more concerned about bore finish then anything else to start out with. If you want an ejumakashun just do an internet search for "Die Steel", then grab a sandwich and a beer.

If I were to make one I'd probably use a medium carbon steel like 1045 and then caseharden it. You can do that with cheap 1018-1020 but it machines like crap. It doesn't have to be through hardened for your purpose. In fact a tough unhardened core would be beneficial. You could also make a primary die out of steel and a finish die out of a carbide chip.

The carbide chip would be soldered to a steel backer, holder or die body (I have no idea HOW you intend to use the dies) with a short but slightly tapered and polished hole to put the final touch on the drawn jacket. Offhand I don't know but for the carbide you could probably use a thrown away TNMG insert of a size with a hold down screw hole close to what you need. You'd then need someone with a tool and cutter grinder with diamond capability to bring it to final size.

..................Buckshot

[waydownsouth]

oil well sucker rod ? if that is the same stuff that is used to drill water bores i may have some about 6 lengths from memory they are about 2 1/2 inch in dia about 20 foot long threaded both ends. we cut them in half and used them as struts on the boundry corner posts.
but before i have to do any fencing how well dose it machine compared to some of the other steel ? am i better buying a peice of anealed steel in about the right dia im thinking it would be a lot easyer to heat treat because the type of steel is known.

[badgeredd]

f I were to make one I'd probably use a medium carbon steel like 1045 and then caseharden it. You can do that with cheap 1018-1020 but it machines like crap. It doesn't have to be through hardened for your purpose. In fact a tough unhardened core would be beneficial.

....Buckshot

I agree with Buckshot, 1045 would be quite easy to machine and a case hardened tool will last and wear very well. Once you have it working the way you want, you could make one for 22s out of tool steel if you felt there was a need. Fact is the 1045 with a .040 to .060 case wil likely outlast you if you take care of it. Just my 2 cents.

[teddyblu]

Most steels listed are the exoctic type , problems with heat treat or difficulty machineing, cracking or just outright expensive. What it the problem with 01 steel? it is fairly easy to machine and easy to harden and takes a good polish, This is what I use for dies and reamer making.

larrys

[waydownsouth]

I took buckshots advice and googled die steel and tool steel took all night but in the end i stumbled upon a local engineering company that specialises in tool making and heat treating as well as custom gun smithing. And i thought i new them all

www.acmeengineering.com.au/gunsmithindex.html (tasmanias best kept secret)

Called in and talked to them this morning they were very helpful he reconmended

D-2 as being good for the job but a bit hard to machine and a bit expensive

EN 36 A Case hardened easy to machine , easy to heat treat and costs a lot less

K 1045 would be suitable but not as easy to heat treat as cracking and warping might be an issue with some shapes

i have phoned the supplyer and ordered some EN 36 A should be here early next week
30 mm X 500 mm $ 38.50 sorry about the metric 25.4 mm = 1 inch
20 mm X 500 mm $ 14.50
$ 12.00 postage

[scb]

I didn't pay any attention to your location, sorry about that. You really are WAY DOWN SOUTH. I'm not familiar with en36a none of the suppliers I use carry it, but from what I can find on the net it looks like a very good choice. My try it my self if I can find it.

[georgeld]

Good deal. From your first post it didn't sound like you'd have access to anything you could buy. That's not a bad price for what you're getting.

Far as the drill/sucker rod. Sure wish I had a length of that dia. All I can find here is 5/8" and I've used many a section of it for tools. Chisels, punches, pins and such. Mighty fine stuff for my use. Blacksmith it to shape, grind to finish. Heat it good and red, let it cool down to a fair pink and quench it in water. depends on the outside temp as to how cold the water is. But, with proper temper I've had quite a lot of them drill thru concrete several feet and never need the edge touched up.

I also, for MY own use, temper the heads too so they don't bell over. Some guys here don't like the sound of that. But, let it cool til the pink has just gone out of it and a few quick dips in the water and it's perfect. One time I got the head too red and did chip a sliver off that stuck me in the brisket. sure hurt, but, I pay better attention now. Almost never have anything break, or chip off.

I'd try it with a carbide bit and should cut ok. IF it's too hard. Heat it up and let it air cool and it'll be soft then and can work it like anything else.
Since I do these things at home in my own shop without proper heat treatment available it's more than good enough for me. I've had better results with my self made tools than a great many brand name tools I've bought.
Just depends on what a man can do himself and what's available.

I'd like to hear you give some of it a try when you get a chance. I'd bet you'll be well satisfied with it.

Good luck,

[waydownsouth]

found another length of the well drill rod so ill take it to school and give it a go on the lathe when second simester starts. iv got two weeks off starting today so no lathe for two weeks :(

georgeld you mentioned that you were making a lead wire extruder.
any chance of some photos

[truckjohn]

So far,

My experience has been that they type of steel is way down the list -- no higher than Concern #4 or 5.....

Boolit comes back out of the die is Concern #1
Hitting the right dimensions is Concern #2.
Mostly the right shape and symmetrical is Concern #3

Right now, Dimensions is my trouble....

+/- 0.005" is pretty easy... but is actually no good for swage dies.

Punches diameter tolerances probably get +0, -0.001"
Die inside diameter tolerances probably get +0.001", -0

so I am fooling around with "Any old steel I can find" for the punch and die.... and trying to actually hit my dimensions.

Thanks

John