314299 problems Part 2

[Lead melter]

Well, with some good advice from you good folks, the Lyman 314299 problems mentioned have been worked out.

After cleaning the mold, I beagled it again, switched to a Lee 6 cavity handle [I don’t own a Lyman 2 cav set], and light at the mold halves problem disappeared.

Removed the sprue plate, wrapped 400 grit paper around a nail and smoothed up the sprue hole, then smoothed out the entire bevel. Spread the sandpaper on the kitchen counter and smoothed the bottom of the sprue plate. Sprue sticking gone.

The unfortunate part of the story is that there is now another problem. After the clean/switch/sand ordeal I cast up about 40 boolits to try. These all came out .314”-.316” at the widest point. Lubed, sized, checked with Gator checks and examined. Each boolit is tilted, meaning they do not stand straight. I looked at the checks and found a deep nose shaped depression in the base of the checks which can be attributed to the nose pushing the previous boolit through the .314 Lee sizer. A couple of the checks even came off the shank. No problem, so I thought. Just invert some boolits and try that. Same result…the boolits are not straight on the check. Maybe too much pressure on the boolit, causing the check to pull back on the shank and seat crookedly. I then tried Hornady checks and got the same junk.

I went back to some of the ones cast yesterday when the mold was not beagled. These size out .312”-.314”. I ran these through the same sizer with a whole lot less pressure and got the same result. Crooked boolits.

I then set boolits as cast on a flat surface, some larger, some smaller. Each one was tilted without the gas check. I looked at the shank, and on the bottom there is a definite, yet tiny, plug of alloy that sticks up from the boolit base. Where the base should be flat, it is not. This “plug” keeps the boolit tilted, the situation is increased by the gas check.

Since the boolit will not stand straight, I will assume the plug is crooked, which would lead me to believe the mold cavities are not cut straight, but are also crooked.

Remember, the boolits were cast before and after smoothing the bottom of the sprue plate.

Maybe I could have the top of the mold milled a few thousandths, but if it is not cut straight, the result will be the same even with a flat base.

I’m above my level on this issue. Anyone got any ideas or remedies?

[oso]

Could you further describe the location of the plug that sticks up from the base? Is it in the sprue cut? Is the sprue plate just swinging freely (which I prefer) or is it any tighter so it is tilted? Look for a gapping between the mold top and the sprue plate with the blocks closed and the sprue plate in place.
How long are you waiting to cut the sprue? Too short and the sprue cut may be torn and smeared, too long a time and hard to cut may leave a stub.

[Vly]

I was casting with my Lyman 314299 this afternoon. I ended up with about 12 lbs of beautiful boolits. :) I noticed that if I opened the sprue plate with a mallet, I got a torn base, especially the cavity furthest way. But if I used my gloved hand and just pushed the sprue plate open I got perfect bases. This with temp and all other variables the same.

Are you whacking it with a mallet? If so try using your hand pressure, gently pushing down as you open. Once the mould is hot it is easy to do. My sprue plate swings freely also.

[Lead melter]

The sprue stub is in the center of the base of the boolit.

I have run the sprue plate swinging loosely and tight, each to no avail.

Cut time varies. I have cut the sprue just as it changed appearance, and waited as long as 30 seconds after appearance changed. Same result.

This afternoon I sanded the sprue plate bottom smooth. My thinking was that with a tiny stub sticking up in the bases of the boolit, the sprue opening was somewhat concave. Sanding got rid of this possible issue. I smoothed until all tooling marks were gone.

Reassembled and cast more. Now the stub is gone and the base of the boolit is smooth like any other mold. Close examination, however, shows that one side of the shank IS longer than the other. This does not change with differing heat, sprue plate tension, sprue cut time changes, or anything else I can try. It simply is cut at an axis.

This is the second new mold from Lyman I have purchased, and it is the second Lyman mold I've had trouble with. The first was returned to Lyman and it took 3 months to get the mold replaced. Even then it was the same problem as what I had encountered...undersized gas check shank. I sent them cast samples of my alloy mixture, 10:1 alloy, and pure lino for inspection. They did not even include a letter of apology for the problem, or thanks for buying their product. I returned it to MidwayUSA for credit.

Now it looks like I will have to go through the same ordeal with Lyman again.

I swore I would never again buy a Lyman mold after the first ordeal, but I figured I could at least try once more. Guess what my resolution is now?

At the same time the first Lyman problem was unfolding I had a problem with an undersized RCBS mold. A phone call got a new mold on the way, along with a postage-paid box for the old one. 3 days to get total satisfaction from RCBS, 3 months to get the same problem in a new box from Lyman. Even Lee does a better job than that!

Guess where I'll buy mold from now on. Lyman is a curse word to me.

[Boomer Mikey]

It sounds like you have chamfered the bottom of the sprue plate holes (rounded the edges) with your nail and paper. The hole edges must be sharp and square to cut the sprue.

Order a 2 cavity repair kit from Midsouth or Midway which includes the sprue plate.

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000152680102

Boomer :Fire:

[Lead melter]

Boomer,
Your idea as to the cause of the stub would have merit, except for one thing. I ran the nail with sandpaper into the hole from the bevel side...not much chance of making the hole bottom chamfered in this case. Plus, the plug was there before I ever sanded the sprue plate bevels.

I then sanded the bottom of the sprue plate enough to remove all the tooling marks and the stub is now gone and the bases are smooth.

The problem is that the boolit are tilted. This issue was evident in the boolits cast before and after any touch up of the sprue plate happened.

As I wrote in the previous post, one edge of the boolit gas check shank is obviously longer than the other. When I saw the stub, I assumed it caused the tilting. Now that the stub is gone, the tilting is still there. I don't know what other conclusion to come to since the evidence is there.

Am going to loosen the sprue plate till it is very loose and give it a try today. If that doesn't work, I guess it will be sent somewhere.

[Taylor]

No encouragement here,but I just had to return a Lyman back to Midsouth because it was warped.Maybe ours were made on a monday,behind a good weekend? I have to wait for mine too.

[w30wcf]

Lead Melter,

Sorry to hear of your troubles with your 314299. If you want to send me a couple of bullets, I can put them in a collet in my lathe and use a dial indicator on the base to see what the runout might be.

If you want to send me a few bullets, please send me a PM and I will send you my address.

If the cavities were cherried at an angle in your mold, you would be able to tell by measuring the distance from the outside edge of the mold to the mold cavity - fore and aft on the long nose section of the cavity.

Sincerely,
w30wcf

[Lead melter]

w30wcf,
I just read your post and appreciate the offer to measure runout, but the measurement idea was the "proof in the pudding".

Following the old carpenter's adage of 'measure three times and cut once', I measured the gas check shanks on the free half of the mold [without sprue plate].

My results are as follows;

The shank length on the cavity nearest the sprue stud is .0985", its opposite edge is .104" for a difference of .0055".

The shank length on the other cavity is .1065" and its opposite edge is .113" for a difference of .0065".

This may not sound like a lot, but 5 or 6 thousandths really makes a difference. It is visible in the boolit and in the mold.

It's going back to MidwayUSA today. I just called and they are even going to reimburse me for the return shipping since the product is defective. Customer service again.

[Boomer Mikey]

Lead melter,

It looks like you have the problem sorted out and Midway will take care of you.

I recently had a similar problem with a Lyman 22 mold and I found the sprue plate bolt was tilted at an angle causing the plate to tilt up on one end resulting in boolits with tilted bases. All I did was loosen the bolt to let the plate sit flat and the boolits are fine now. I wonder how many mold blocks have gone through the manufacturing cycle with this problem. It's a shame to throw a whole casting session worth of boolits back into the pot but that's part of the learning process.

Good luck with the replacement mold,

Boomer :Fire: