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View Full Version : I apologise for raising this but it's driving me nuts!



UKShootist
06-15-2016, 05:08 AM
Melting or smelting? As regular as clockwork I see references to people 'smelting' lead when it's clear from their post that they mean they are 'melting' lead. Smelting is the recovery of metals from metallic ore. Melting is a process of heating lead until it turns from a solid to a liquid. In one sense it may appear unimportant I know, but it's not difficult to get right, is it? It's a bit like calling nitro propellants gunpowder, it seems to me. [smilie=b:

(Now diving for cover, flameproof gloves, bug out bag, and tinfoil hat at the ready) :p

chuckbuster
06-15-2016, 05:29 AM
I think the term smelting is used since our process often does involve recovering usable lead/lead alloys from wheel weights, range dirt, old pipe, etc. Fluxing and such required so using the term smelting is not that far off base. If used when referring to converting pewter objects into ingots your point certainly more valid,,,

Now the constant use of caliber when cartridge or chambering ( chambered for) is What really drives me nuts. I personally load for only 6-7 different calibers but there are over 20 cartridges involved.

Just throwing a little gas on the flames :)
Kevin

leftiye
06-15-2016, 06:02 AM
Give up, they're wrong, you're right, it's just the term that we use.

koehlerrk
06-15-2016, 06:12 AM
Depends on what you're doing. I have a dedicated smelting pot for turning dirty scrap into clean ingots. I also have a melting pot that I use for casting said ingots into various size boolits.

Ahh, you're from Britain... That explains the conundrum! American vs English... It all depends on the language my good sir!

matrixcs
06-15-2016, 06:22 AM
Even then either smelting or melting are not the best or accurate words for our process of rendering and recovering usable lead from various sources...

StrawHat
06-15-2016, 06:30 AM
That's not mot much of a drive, more like a short walk.

Wait until you hear them talk about what caliber their firearm is, ie 30-06 or 38 Special, when that is actually the cartridge for which the firearm is chambered.

Kevin

dragon813gt
06-15-2016, 06:36 AM
You won't last long.

dudel
06-15-2016, 06:56 AM
Clips vs Mags anyone?.....

JSnover
06-15-2016, 07:01 AM
We can melt lead.
We can render scrap or unknown alloys into useable lead.
We don't smelt.

Sasquatch-1
06-15-2016, 07:12 AM
Beat me to it. I was going to ask if "RENDERING" would be more to his liking.

I believe I remember this same topic coming up about a year ago. Maybe it should be placed with the abbreviation at the bottom of the page:
"Smelting is the word used for the melting of any bulk material (other then ingot) into a useable ingots for casting. We know this is not the correct use of the word but we are trying to emulate democrats."


We can melt lead.
We can render scrap or unknown alloys into useable lead.
We don't smelt.

Tatume
06-15-2016, 07:26 AM
Smelt:
1. to fuse or melt (ore) in order to separate the metal contained. 2. to obtain or refine (metal) in this way.

Ore:
A mineral or an aggregate of minerals from which a valuable constituent, especially a metal, can be profitably mined or extracted

If you think of range scrap and wheel weights as a form of manmade ore, then we are smelting when we heat it to recover lead.

Newboy
06-15-2016, 07:54 AM
Most of us are aware that we are not truly "smelting". But we do not have a proper word for the process of "rendering" scrap lead into ingots, so we use the smelt word. The word "melt" is reserved for melting clean alloy for dispensing into molds/moulds.

Hickory
06-15-2016, 07:59 AM
Plants for the production of lead (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead) are generally referred to as lead smelters. Primary lead production begins with sintering. Concentrated lead ore is fed into a sintering machine with iron, silica, limestone fluxes (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flux_(metallurgy)), coke (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coke_(fuel)), soda ash (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soda_ash), pyrite (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrite), zinc (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc), caustics orpollution control (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollution_control) particulates. Smelting (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smelting) uses suitable reducing substances (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduction_(chemistry)) that will combine with those oxidizing (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxidation_(chemistry)) elements to free the metal. Reduction is the final, high-temperature step in smelting. It is here that the oxide becomes the elemental metal. A reducing environment (often provided by carbon monoxide in an air-starved furnace) pulls the final oxygen atoms from the raw metal.
Lead is usually smelted in a blast furnace (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blast_furnace) using the carbon from the sintering machine to provide the heat source. As melting occurs, several layers form in the furnace. The molten lead layer sinks to the bottom of the furnace. A layer of the lightest elements, including arsenic (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenic) and antimony (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimony), floats to the top and is referred to as the speiss (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speiss). A "matte" layer also forms from the copper and metal sulfides. Finally, a layer of blast furnace slag, which contains mostly silicates, also forms. The speiss and the matte are usually sold to copper smelters (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_smelting) where they are refined for copper processing. The slag is stored and partially recycled, if the metal content is sufficient.

==============================,=================== ========================

I never understand the term 'smelt' by boolits casters.
Maybe they feel smarter or more important when they 'smelt' as opposed to melting lead.
I worked in an iron foundry for nearly 30 years and we never "SMELTED" one ounce of iron, we melted it.

Walter Laich
06-15-2016, 08:12 AM
my neighbor is from MI and told me stories of dipping for smelt.

Also mentioned their deer can be bigger than we have in the South

and don't get me started on his ice fishing stories...

imashooter2
06-15-2016, 08:19 AM
You're on a board called "Cast Boolits." :roll:

bedbugbilly
06-15-2016, 08:40 AM
Thank you for pointing that out . . . . I needed something really important to worry about today. :-)

OS OK
06-15-2016, 08:58 AM
Oh my gosh...'smelt', 'melt', 'render'...I thought I was 'refining' the scrap, and at the pour pot...I thought I was 'blending' to get the boolit metal I need.

I just hope that it doesn't turn into another 'acronym'!...:bigsmyl2:

DerekP Houston
06-15-2016, 09:12 AM
color vs colour, grey vs gray, etc. I *know* I'm not smelting, but I've gotten over the need to nitpick others over their language choice. My dad still refers to magazines as "clips" and other funny sayings. As long as I can understand the gist of the conversation from context clues I just go with it. Also I frequent many international sites where english is not the first language and I rely on translator apps to read. I have yet to have my gaming buddies complain that I *tried* to communicate in their language to the best of my ability, though sometimes they tell me the translations are completely off and hilarious.

mold maker
06-15-2016, 09:31 AM
Melting or smelting? As regular as clockwork I see references to people 'smelting' lead when it's clear from their post that they mean they are 'melting' lead. Smelting is the recovery of metals from metallic ore. Melting is a process of heating lead until it turns from a solid to a liquid. In one sense it may appear unimportant I know, but it's not difficult to get right, is it? It's a bit like calling nitro propellants gunpowder, it seems to me. [smilie=b:

(Now diving for cover, flameproof gloves, bug out bag, and tinfoil hat at the ready) :p

Personally, I came here to learn, and I try to use the terms common here. To do otherwise is to insult those who try to share thoughts and info.

swheeler
06-15-2016, 09:47 AM
Smelting/melting, fluxing/reducing, in our world just semantics, don't sweet it. Stick around long enough you will see a lot of things, pill, head, pipe, tube, Remmy, Winny, Webby, Loopy and even P17 from a few! Shake it off and read between the lines.

Sensai
06-15-2016, 09:55 AM
The last time I smelt wheel weights they didn't have a smell, unless I had left a valve stem in the pot with them!:kidding:

Mk42gunner
06-15-2016, 10:05 AM
Smelt:
1. to fuse or melt (ore) in order to separate the metal contained. 2. to obtain or refine (metal) in this way.

Ore:
A mineral or an aggregate of minerals from which a valuable constituent, especially a metal, can be profitably mined or extracted

If you think of range scrap and wheel weights as a form of manmade ore, then we are smelting when we heat it to recover lead.
The second definition seems to fit what we do pretty well, so smelting works for me.


Smelting/melting, fluxing/reducing, in our world just semantics, don't sweet it. Stick around long enough you will see a lot of things, pill, head, pipe, tube, Remmy, Winny, Webby, Loopy and even P17 from a few! Shake it off and read between the lines.

These and shotty are what really sets my teeth to grinding. It is probably from having so many people mispronounce my last name over the years, but proper names are one of my pet peeves.

On the clip vs. magazine issue; I was told many years ago that a clip has three sides and no bottom, a magazine has four sides and a bottom.

Robert

swheeler
06-15-2016, 10:27 AM
Damn I forgot shotty[smilie=b: Reading any of these in print lets me know these are the guys you hand your single action to and they put it on half cock and spin the cylinder as fast as they can, hand them your double action and watch them do the Dirty Harry cylinder flip, KOOOOOL DUDES:groner:

DerekP Houston
06-15-2016, 10:34 AM
Damn I forgot shotty[smilie=b: Reading any of these in print lets me know these are the guys you hand your single action to and they put it on half cock and spin the cylinder as fast as they can, hand them your double action and watch them do the Dirty Harry cylinder flip, KOOOOOL DUDES:groner:
Oh god the cylinder flick.....first thing I learned of what *NOT* to do to a revolver...I do give the cylinder a spin every now and then though to see how easy it spins and if it feels gritty/dirty but mine aren't SA.

kmw1954
06-15-2016, 10:34 AM
Is someday the same as We'll see?

WebMonkey
06-15-2016, 10:35 AM
Just like boolit and bullet
;)
'Monkey

TXBRILL
06-15-2016, 11:09 AM
Lets not forget mold vs mould

runfiverun
06-15-2016, 11:12 AM
we voted on this in 2009 and you lost.
it's smelting.

jakharath
06-15-2016, 11:14 AM
The United States and the United Kingdom, two great countries separated by a common language. :)

swheeler
06-15-2016, 12:05 PM
we voted on this in 2009 and you lost.
it's smelting.

Yes, smelting for me anyhoo. Adding sawdust on top of the melt is a form of fluxing to me, not carburizing. Carburizing is used in tempering ferrous metals, not cleaning lead alloy.

gnoahhh
06-15-2016, 12:11 PM
I too have gotten used to the use of the word "smelting" in our vernacular, but it did bother me greatly at first. I never thought of using "rendering" instead. What a good idea. I shall adopt that term in future. (I'm still not 100% behind the word "boolit". :kidding: )

OS OK
06-15-2016, 12:28 PM
I too have gotten used to the use of the word "smelting" in our vernacular, but it did bother me greatly at first. I never thought of using "rendering" instead. What a good idea. I shall adopt that term in future. (I'm still not 100% behind the word "boolit". :kidding: )

If you ever drive by a plant that 'renders' pork or beef trimmings etc., (there is one in L.A.) you won't ever again associate 'rendering' with anything lead based. One 'nosefull' of a rendering plant is all it takes!....:bigsmyl2:

quack1
06-15-2016, 12:32 PM
I too have gotten used to the use of the word "smelting" in our vernacular, but it did bother me greatly at first. I never thought of using "rendering" instead. What a good idea. I shall adopt that term in future. (I'm still not 100% behind the word "boolit". :kidding: )

I never cared for boolet, either, but there is a good use for it. When I was working, the company had software that wouldn't let you on any sites that had anything to do with guns or shooting. I found out that I could type in "cast boolets" and get on this site on my computer at work. Guess the software didn't recognize the odd spelling.

dragon813gt
06-15-2016, 12:38 PM
You're on a board called "Cast Boolits." :roll:

I wondered if the OP had noticed this fact :laugh:

JSnover
06-15-2016, 01:24 PM
But we do not have a proper word for the process of "rendering" scrap lead into ingots, so we use the smelt word.
Try "rendering," like you did right there. It's a proper word being used correctly.

JSnover
06-15-2016, 01:30 PM
Smelt:
1. to fuse or melt (ore) in order to separate the metal contained. 2. to obtain or refine (metal) in this way.

Ore:
A mineral or an aggregate of minerals from which a valuable constituent, especially a metal, can be profitably mined or extracted

If you think of range scrap and wheel weights as a form of manmade ore, then we are smelting when we heat it to recover lead.
But you think of range scrap as it is (not what you wish it was), then you're not smelting.
Put another way, the Supreme Court ruled a few years ago that the Affordable Care Act could have been a tax and if if it had been, ObamaCare would have been constitutional, and subsequently upheld it.

45-70 Chevroner
06-15-2016, 01:31 PM
Damn I forgot shotty[smilie=b: Reading any of these in print lets me know these are the guys you hand your single action to and they put it on half cock and spin the cylinder as fast as they can, hand them your double action and watch them do the Dirty Harry cylinder flip, KOOOOOL DUDES:groner:

I have a really nice 4 screw nickle plated pre 29 smith
The first time I took this one grandson out to shoot this particular gun ( he was 20 at the time ) he did the Dirty Harry trick, I came unglued, well he knows better now.

mdi
06-15-2016, 01:45 PM
Well, most of the members here are American and we don't speak English, we speak American. In the US I "smelt" as in cleaning/refining lead by melting and removing impurities, the same as if I started with lead ore. I don't know what I'd be doing in the UK...:p

robg
06-15-2016, 01:48 PM
People calling boolits/bullets heads!argh

UKShootist
06-15-2016, 02:50 PM
Well, most of the members here are American and we don't speak English, we speak American. In the US I "smelt" as in cleaning/refining lead by melting and removing impurities, the same as if I started with lead ore. I don't know what I'd be doing in the UK...:p

You are, of course, entitled to define a word as meaning exactly what you want it to mean, thereby putting yourself on a par with Humpty Dumpty. You might as well use the word "Smoggledorfing", which is as equally made up but not having the benefit of also being a real word used incorrectly. The classic American English dictionary (Merriam Webster) defines 'smelt' as follows:


: a type of small fish that can be eaten

(probably not that one, OK.)


: to melt rock that contains metal in order to get the metal out

Sounds OK so far. If you are melting lead to remove the impurities by fluxing then you are using the process to remove the impurities, rather than melting the ore to remove the lead. See the difference? If not, I hope you are using the right calibre stones and rocks in your chosen firearm. It is not what is meant by the expression, let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Suggesting that you may alter the meaning of words simply because you are American may suit the likes of Obama and Clinton, but personally, I think the lady doth protest too much. In the UK you would be 'melting' lead and in the USA you are 'melting' lead. You are insisting on using the word either out of a somewhat silly perversion or of genuine ignorance being defended out of a fear of being thought ignorant. At least those who say those who use the term 'smelting' are doing so because they prefer to, knowing the real definition but choosing to ignore it, have an open sense of honesty. When you are wrong it is the more grown up thing to admit it.

And on to the mention of the forum being 'Cast Boolits'. That is a separate thing entirely. I am willing to bet a substantial amount (by my standards) that the originators of the forum were fully aware, and able to spell, the correct word would be 'bullets', but that in the spirit of individuality, tempered by humour, they chose the word 'boolits'. That is not ignorance triumphing, but a sense of humour that is, in fact, in many ways quite British.

N.B.
Humour, especially irony, does not cross the Atlantic well from east to west, which may be because the founding fathers left theirs behind out of choice. This post has a certain amount of ironic humour and is not intended to offend anyone, be they Republican or Democrat. :lovebooli :kidding:

JSnover
06-15-2016, 03:09 PM
This post … is not intended to offend anyone, be they Republican or Democrat. :lovebooli :kidding:
Well that's no fun :-(

Alan in Vermont
06-15-2016, 04:14 PM
Smelt:
1. to fuse or melt (ore) in order to separate the metal contained. 2. to obtain or refine (metal) in this way.

Ore:
A mineral or an aggregate of minerals from which a valuable constituent, especially a metal, can be profitably mined or extracted

If you think of range scrap and wheel weights as a form of manmade ore, then we are smelting when we heat it to recover lead.

The stuff I get out of the berms or the trap(on the indoor range) Pretty much meets a working definition of "ore" as it is truly a combination of other metals, metal oxides and trash materials. I refer to it as "boolit ore" when discussing it with others. In that context I smelt it to remove the other metals and impurities. I then alloy it with other metal ingredients to come up with a usable metal for casting boolits.

I really don't much care about what anyone else thinks of my terminology and I surely don't take much to being pontificated to by someone who thinks they are an authority on proper language usage.

UKShootist
06-15-2016, 04:18 PM
I really don't much care about what anyone else thinks of my terminology and I surely don't take much to being pontificated to by someone who thinks they are an authority on proper language usage.

You care so little, it seems, that you take the time to reply, to justify, and to insult in your reply. Your answer defeats itself. Neither have I claimed that I am an authority on proper language usage, although I might claim, as demonstrated by your reply, that you are not. Another Humpty Dumpty reply. Not, of course, that this makes you a bad person.

dverna
06-15-2016, 04:36 PM
Well.......
as a dual citizen ... Canadian by birth, American by choice let me offer my take.

On the whole, Americans are less educated than their British or colonial friends. Regrettably they continue to lag further behind with programs line "no child left behind" etc etc. Bear in mind that does NOT mean they are stupid just a tad more ignorant.

For example, Americans celebrate a child graduating from high school...this was not done in Canada when I graduated nearly 40 years ago as it was not viewed as a significant achievement.

UKShootist, your attempt to correct our ignorance will fall on deaf ears. It does not make us stupid...most of us do not wish to learn. Many prefer to write and talk like ignorant hillbillies so we will "fit in". And your post count is too low anyway to effect change. LOL

I have never used the word smelt wrt melting and I do not use the word boolit. I know better and you do too. So use the words you wish. There is no need to conform to the lowest common denominator to be understood. When others use a word incorrectly go with the flow and learn. Ignorant people are not necessarily stupid, but stupid people are just about useless.

JSnover
06-15-2016, 04:54 PM
For the most part we're just having fun with it, though boolit vs. bullet helps clear things up by identifying cast projectiles vs. the jacketed type.

DerekP Houston
06-15-2016, 04:57 PM
I assumed this whole thread was a dry form of british humour. Did not disappoint :D.

toallmy
06-15-2016, 05:09 PM
:pI love crispy fried smelt and I enjoy cooking up a big kettle of lead to cast boolits with , but rendering does not sound fun . Did I spell that right .

500MAG
06-15-2016, 05:09 PM
170280 Just so there's no confusion, in the U.S., this is a Queen.

OS OK
06-15-2016, 05:19 PM
"Aaaahaaa....but...What's the difference?"

Just answered my own question..."the English Queen has more expensive jewelry."

lightman
06-15-2016, 05:51 PM
I'm guilty of using the word "smelt" to describe melting scrap lead and casting ingots. Theres no particular reason, I just do it. Prolly always will. I does not bother me when someone else uses other words of their choosing. Its kind of a non issue to me. I do have around 1200 pounds of scrap that I need to smelt but I have waited around until the weather has gotten hot.

plainsman456
06-15-2016, 06:07 PM
Then there is the word bonnet for hood.

Bet if one tried it would make no difference what it was called.
What about the reclaimed lead/**** that has rocks and dirt embedded,smelting methinks applies.:kidding:

RogerDat
06-15-2016, 06:42 PM
I need a spanner out of the boot to fix the lorry as soon as I get back from the loo..... and we are using words incorrectly? :-p

While not technically smelting of ore, it is a term that within this community is used to describe the processing of lead over heat into clean usable ingots, or crusty full of impurities ingots, but what they won't be is WW's or assorted scrap any more. Often scrap items such as WW's will have impurities (paint, plastic, grease, dirt) and steel clips. Scrap lead pipe is full of calcified minerals and lord alone knows what, roof flashing has tar and nails. All of these need the "impurities" removed.

We as a group needed an easy concise way to differentiate that process of removal from melting lead to cast boolits with or to make alloy from assorted ingots or foundry pure material. We picked "smelting" not because of ignorance but because it was convenient, and a word generally associated with molten metal in our limited red neck minds. Boolits likewise is used to distinguish lovingly cast lead projectiles from crass store bought projectiles wearing fancy copper jackets.

Read the signature, we had to call it something and "Melting, fluxing, and reducing until clean enough to pour into decent ingots" just did not roll off the tongue. We went with "smelting" see how easy that is? How succinct and smooth? Communities and professions have long reserved the right to name and re-name items or activities. Even borrowing totally unrelated words. I mean your computer don't have a real mouse attached does it? :p Silly geeks!

The OP better be nice or I'll ask them to explain Cricket, which effort will be totally wasted. Cricket now there is a sport with a vocabulary issue.
Americans throw a curve ball or slider (makes sense) but pitching a Googly is what exactly? :kidding:

OS OK
06-15-2016, 06:52 PM
Doesn't matter what those Limeys want to call it, besides even though they claim to be speaking English...watch one of their TV programs and try desperately as you may to understand their native tongue...near impossible!
Besides no matter what they call it...everyone on both sides of the pond still end up with a pile of BOOLITS.

500MAG
06-15-2016, 07:36 PM
Doesn't matter what those Limeys want to call it, besides even though they claim to be speaking English...watch one of their TV programs and try desperately as you may to understand their native tongue...near impossible!
Besides no matter what they call it...everyone on both sides of the pond still end up with a pile of BOOLITS.
Except Benny Hill, God rest his soul.

gundownunder
06-15-2016, 09:06 PM
I've smelt many times. In fact with all the grease and crud that goes into my pot i positively stink after a lead reclaiming session. :-D

DerekP Houston
06-15-2016, 09:13 PM
Doesn't matter what those Limeys want to call it, besides even though they claim to be speaking English...watch one of their TV programs and try desperately as you may to understand their native tongue...near impossible!
Besides no matter what they call it...everyone on both sides of the pond still end up with a pile of BOOLITS.

I grew up over the pond so I guess I learned to translate on the fly :D. Now my scottish da-in-law....I need a few whisky's before I can understand that.

John Boy
06-15-2016, 09:20 PM
I melt sheet lead and clips and heat the ingots

Thumbcocker
06-15-2016, 09:32 PM
Come on guys; cut our British cousins some slack. Heck they show up at all of our wars.

Mike W1
06-15-2016, 09:50 PM
Smelt doesn't bother me though I prefer melt but telling me that someone "casted" some bullets drives me nuts. I did look it up and it actually was a word that was dropped in the 1600's if I recall correctly. Nowadays I just cringe when I see it and TRY to keep my mouth shut. The post mentioning our schools as being not too hot was dead on though. And mind you I got out of High School in the 60's and it really wasn't too hot then for that matter.

Aunegl
06-15-2016, 10:00 PM
We have the Second Amendment because of our British cousins.

RogerDat
06-15-2016, 10:18 PM
Come on guys; cut our British cousins some slack. Heck they show up at all of our wars. Yep true enough, and they have been on the same side after the first couple. Besides they founded, or at least had a lot to do with establishing Canada and those folks are pretty good neighbors.

mdi
06-15-2016, 11:42 PM
You are, of course, entitled to define a word as meaning exactly what you want it to mean, thereby putting yourself on a par with Humpty Dumpty. You might as well use the word "Smoggledorfing", which is as equally made up but not having the benefit of also being a real word used incorrectly. The classic American English dictionary (Merriam Webster) defines 'smelt' as follows:



(probably not that one, OK.)



Sounds OK so far. If you are melting lead to remove the impurities by fluxing then you are using the process to remove the impurities, rather than melting the ore to remove the lead. See the difference? If not, I hope you are using the right calibre stones and rocks in your chosen firearm. It is not what is meant by the expression, let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Suggesting that you may alter the meaning of words simply because you are American may suit the likes of Obama and Clinton, but personally, I think the lady doth protest too much. In the UK you would be 'melting' lead and in the USA you are 'melting' lead. You are insisting on using the word either out of a somewhat silly perversion or of genuine ignorance being defended out of a fear of being thought ignorant. At least those who say those who use the term 'smelting' are doing so because they prefer to, knowing the real definition but choosing to ignore it, have an open sense of honesty. When you are wrong it is the more grown up thing to admit it.

And on to the mention of the forum being 'Cast Boolits'. That is a separate thing entirely. I am willing to bet a substantial amount (by my standards) that the originators of the forum were fully aware, and able to spell, the correct word would be 'bullets', but that in the spirit of individuality, tempered by humour, they chose the word 'boolits'. That is not ignorance triumphing, but a sense of humour that is, in fact, in many ways quite British.

N.B.
Humour, especially irony, does not cross the Atlantic well from east to west, which may be because the founding fathers left theirs behind out of choice. This post has a certain amount of ironic humour and is not intended to offend anyone, be they Republican or Democrat. :lovebooli :kidding:

Wow, insulting at best. I guess if I had this much trouble with a specific Nationalities speech and humor, I'd stay away from them. God Bless George Washington!

UKShootist
06-16-2016, 05:25 AM
The OP better be nice or I'll ask them to explain Cricket, which effort will be totally wasted. Cricket now there is a sport with a vocabulary issue.

Oh, cricket is easy to explain.

You have two sides, one out in the field and one in. Each man that's in the side that's in goes out, and when he's out he comes in and the next man goes in until he's out. When they are all out, the side that's out comes in and the side that's been in goes out and tries to get those coming in, out. Sometimes you get men still in and not out.

When a man goes out to go in, the men who are out try to get him out, and when he is out he goes in and the next man in goes out and goes in. There are two men called umpires who stay out all the time and they decide when the men who are in are out. When both sides have been in and all the men have been out, and both sides have been out twice after all the men have been in, including those who are not out, that is the end of the game

See, easy.

OS OK
06-16-2016, 07:54 AM
"Bloody Hell, that simple huh? Let's us get into our knickers and play a game!"

UKShootist
06-16-2016, 08:31 AM
Wow, insulting at best. I guess if I had this much trouble with a specific Nationalities speech and humor, I'd stay away from them. God Bless George Washington!

Insulting? The only people I generally see that are so eager to take anything as an insult are Muslims, homosexuals, feminists and liberals (or all four together). :smile:

OS OK
06-16-2016, 09:28 AM
Alright...the gauntlet is down...here goes a good spitting contest! No Queen's Rule...good old American Street Fight..."Get ready to Rruuumble!"

DerekP Houston
06-16-2016, 09:29 AM
That was a pretty darn funny burn. Well played UKshootist.

DAVIDMAGNUM
06-16-2016, 10:05 AM
I feel the same way when someone goes to an ATM Machine, types their PIN Number and takes out money to buy a new Hot Water Heater .

WebMonkey
06-16-2016, 10:22 AM
It does heat hot water though. Only time mine heats "cool" water is in the morning when the timer puts the juice to it for the day. ;) during the day it heats hot water to keep it really hot :)

I'm just playing along here.
'Monkey

9.3X62AL
06-16-2016, 10:23 AM
I suppose that if nomenclature is your hobby and exactness is your passion.......then threads like this have probative value. Mind you, I'm retired--and have a lot of spare time on my hands--but worrying about the "exactness" of smelting/melting and caliber/chambering references I make has not been a feature of my postings here (in its several ideations) since 1996. I will strive to Clean Up My Act.

mold maker
06-16-2016, 01:11 PM
Huffing and puffing over the meaning of smelt or melt only raises the blood pressure and wastes brain sparks. I'm hungry.

flint45
06-16-2016, 01:58 PM
Smelted 1500 pounds of lead today. Now on to castin boolits!

Geezer in NH
06-16-2016, 03:33 PM
I prefer to call it recycle, and help keep the environment clean by doing so.

toallmy
06-16-2016, 04:25 PM
How do you play with a cricket again .

robg
06-16-2016, 04:49 PM
Ukshootist explained it veery well except when it rains it ends in a draw .there's also ducks maidens a googlies!

mdi
06-16-2016, 07:50 PM
It's kinda funny (odd) that a guy that's thousands of miles away, across an ocean, in a totally different country, that speaks a different language is giving us a lesson in grammar. I wonder what's his motive? Resentment from 200 + years ago when they were driven out of this country...:bigsmyl2:

onceabull
06-16-2016, 08:31 PM
Is this "loopy" what SOME people in Montana call a Loopold scope sight ????????????? Onceabull

BAGTIC
06-16-2016, 08:33 PM
The proper tem is 'melting'. Some people think it is cute to call it 'smelting' just as some people think it is cute to reverse certain letters in signage, especially the 'N' and 'S' just as some think it is cute to spell 'bullets' as 'boolits'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smelting

Is anyone here reducing lead from its base ore? I doubt it.

Oh well, children will be children.

BAGTIC
06-16-2016, 08:37 PM
The Brits also came up with the Second Amendment at least 150 years before we did. Unfortunately they left their politicians scam them out of it. That is war started the war after all. We wanted it back and they wouldn't agree.

mdi
06-16-2016, 08:57 PM
An idea. Perhaps we could have a sub forum titled "Spelling/Grammar Nazis". Then those "superior", perfection osessed, spelling and grammar freaks would have a place to argue "less than important" ways to share/tell others what we do...

gundownunder
06-16-2016, 09:14 PM
OK, children, lets not get nasty.

The OP does have a point. We don't smelt, we melt, and reclaim the lead.

If he wants to be a bit pedantic about it, does that make him any worse than the rest of us when we get our nickers in a twist because some anti gun nut or news reporter calls a semi auto rifle a machine gun.

fatelk
06-16-2016, 10:10 PM
I assumed that everyone knew full well that we are not actually "smelting" lead when reclaiming wheel weights or range scrap. I was a little taken aback myself when I first heard the term in that context, but quickly realized that it was a handy term that we all understood to apply to reclaiming scrap, though technically incorrect. I don't see the harm in it, myself.

It might be fun to go around correcting everyone's language and terminology. It might even make me feel intelligent and superior to talk down to the "children" who can't use their words correctly, but it sure wouldn't win me any friends. :)

mdi
06-16-2016, 11:40 PM
I smelt! My language skills may not be up to some's standards, but that's my term and I'm stickin' to it! Besides, when I say "smelted today" everyone here knows what I'm saying, or I should say experienced casters do...

303Guy
06-17-2016, 01:12 AM
The term 'smelting' used to jar me too. I got used to it and use it too, although not often enough. Been out of it for a while but hey, I bought some scrap lead today that I plan to 'smelt' tomorrow to make some throat slugging slugs. OK, it still sounds a bit odd to me. ;) Mind you, when we 'smelt' scrap lead piping, it sure as hell smelts! :mrgreen: This lead is flashing so it shouldn't 'smelt' too bad. :mrgreen:

Jake70
06-17-2016, 02:49 AM
I just make boolits, I never gave much though about what the process was called. :p

Battis
06-17-2016, 03:45 AM
There's a lot of people buried in my Massachusetts town who were British citizens when they died. I've tried to read some of the headstones but since they didn't know whether to use the letter S or F, I wasn't very fuccefsful. Sirft you fmelt, then you caft.
No wonder why they drive on the wrong side of the road.


Americans celebrate a child graduating from high school...this was not done in Canada when I graduated nearly 40 years ago as it was not viewed as a significant achievement.
Canadian Senior Thesis:"I poot ze puck in ze net and the rouge light come on."

UKShootist
06-17-2016, 04:18 AM
It's kinda funny (odd) that a guy that's thousands of miles away, across an ocean, in a totally different country, that speaks a different language is giving us a lesson in grammar. I wonder what's his motive? Resentment from 200 + years ago when they were driven out of this country...:bigsmyl2:

Hmm.... let's see there. When your supreme court decided recently, (another word that has a different meaning, in terms of history, in the UK than the USA) that the 2nd Amendment was directed at individual ownership of arms, where did they go to find out? Yup! England. They went back as far as the court of King Alfred (reigned about four or five hundred years before the USA was officially discovered) to decide, well, frankly, upon the meaning of the words in context, which is what some people call 'grammar'.

Resentment from 200 years ago when we were 'driven from your country'? If that's the case then how comes that the UK is one of the few countries outside North American mainland that has maintained a long term positive relationship with the USA? There certainly is a jocular (look it up) attitude towards the USA turning up late for a couple of rather important wars, certainly, but we recognise that was your politicians rather than your armed forces, who served and died heroically. You may be one of the few Americans who are unaware that the British actually took part in WW2, given the efforts of Hollywood to rewrite history, but we were there, taking the brunt for quite a few years before you joined in, and doing rather well too, under the circumstances.

P.S. I thought that your misspelling of 'Oregon' as 'Orygun' was a humorous play on words. Now, I'm not so sure.

:smile:

UKShootist
06-17-2016, 04:23 AM
It might be fun to go around correcting everyone's language and terminology. It might even make me feel intelligent and superior to talk down to the "children" who can't use their words correctly, but it sure wouldn't win me any friends. :)

Proverbs 9:9 ;)

Battis
06-17-2016, 05:00 AM
We turn up late for wars after it's determined that the JV Team can't get 'er done.
Might it be said that we have a 2nd Amendment because of England?

Sasquatch-1
06-17-2016, 07:03 AM
You give a waist coat, top hat and umbrella ans sit him on the hearth to the fireplace.



How do you play with a cricket again .

cainttype
06-17-2016, 07:11 AM
Hmm.... let's see there. When your supreme court decided recently, (another word that has a different meaning, in terms of history, in the UK than the USA) that the 2nd Amendment was directed at individual ownership of arms, where did they go to find out? Yup! England. They went back as far as the court of King Alfred (reigned about four or five hundred years before the USA was officially discovered) to decide, well, frankly, upon the meaning of the words in context, which is what some people call 'grammar'.


If grammar and terminology are the subjects being discussed, it would seem that proper spelling, punctuation, and capitalization would be expected, even required, in the written conversation.
The U.S. "Supreme Court" is a proper noun, and like the U.K.'s Parliament, it is always capitalized. The "court of King Alfred" would also use a capital C in "Court" any time it is cited.
So much for "cutting hairs", so to speak. :)

Can not= cain't, am not= ain't, and going to=gonna are all fine with me. I understand them in conversation quite clearly.
Sadly, I'm also somewhat fluent in Ebonics (Jive) and vulgarity (when properly motivated). Oddly enough, both of those are quite common with many of today's high school graduates, although mathematical and critical thinking skills seem to elude quite of few of them.

JonB_in_Glencoe
06-17-2016, 08:01 AM
http://apps.startribune.com/blogs/user_images/KenyonSmelt.jpg


http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/assets_c/2012/01/20120103-185977-nasty-bits-smelt-primary-thumb-625xauto-209266.jpg

OS OK
06-17-2016, 09:50 AM
Where I'm from down by the Gulf, you would be accused of eating our 'bait'!
Actually you can stick one of those puny critters on a hook and catch one that'll feed the entire family, have a good time doing it too.

OS OK..."Keep yer paws out of the 'bait well'...unless yer gonna fish!"

DerekP Houston
06-17-2016, 10:06 AM
Where I'm from down by the Gulf, you would be accused of eating our 'bait'!
Actually you can stick one of those puny critters on a hook and catch one that'll feed the entire family, have a good time doing it too.

OS OK..."Keep yer paws out of the 'bait well'...unless yer gonna fish!"

I dunno, depends how good the fishing is :D I've been known to filet the bluegills if that's all we caught.

OS OK
06-17-2016, 10:18 AM
Derek...
Those 'boney' lil pests live in the lakes...I'm talking 'Gulf of Mexico'...no tellin what's gonna grab your bait out there!
One time we had 3 fisherman disappear over the rail...2 of them got yanked overboard trying to hook up and the other one got grabbed by something that climbed up the side of the boat. He was the fat guy, guess that whatever it was...was hungry!
Great day all around!

I know...'first liar' ain't gotta chance!...:bigsmyl2:

blackthorn
06-17-2016, 12:04 PM
Canadian Senior Thesis:"I poot ze puck in ze net and the rouge light come on."

Only in Quebec! And almost half of Quebec citizens think they live in another country anyhow!

9.3X62AL
06-17-2016, 12:04 PM
Barely big enough for yellowtail finbait off La Jolla. Sardines that size might go into the bait well, Spanish mackeral would for sure be throwbacks.

mdi
06-17-2016, 12:22 PM
I think we're about to have another "Rebellion" here. Trow de Limey out and keep our forum 'Merican...

Attempted attacks on my spelling and grammar, and the content of my posts is really just an anonymous cowardish display of "Old Country" bigotry and arrogance...

fatelk
06-17-2016, 01:40 PM
Proverbs 9:9 ;)

Yes, I understand, and I appreciate correct terminology myself. I've just learned that you have to be real careful trying to educate someone who doesn't want to be educated. It's easy to come across the wrong way and just irritate people, even when your motives are sincere.

One of my pet peeves is those who talk about "swagging" bullets. I once tried to educate an acquaintance on his misuse of that term, and his reaction taught me that one has to be very cautious about such things. A few people will be glad to learn but most will not care and continue to use a word as they always have. Insisting that they change and going to lengths to show them how wrong they are won't win you any friends.

robg
06-17-2016, 02:33 PM
I've dived in ,but you dove in .

UKShootist
06-17-2016, 03:11 PM
Attempted attacks on my spelling and grammar, and the content of my posts is really just an anonymous cowardish display of "Old Country" bigotry and arrogance...

I feel I ought no longer engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

Battis
06-17-2016, 03:30 PM
"We already kicked all the riff/raff out of our country. We sent them back to England."
Mathew Quigley

toallmy
06-17-2016, 03:37 PM
I have been dumbing down myself for so long it may have worked , but in my youth I was a smart a$$

1_Ogre
06-17-2016, 03:48 PM
Never heard of a "Hot Water Heater" before, what is it used for? Why heat hot water? I know what a water heater is though

UKShootist
06-17-2016, 04:10 PM
"We already kicked all the riff/raff out of our country. We sent them back to England."
Mathew Quigley

Your point being?

Geezer in NH
06-17-2016, 04:14 PM
Your point being?

Mabey it's you ain't (USA ya know the guys you call when the Germans scare you) here for good reasons you like to think.

Insult us Americans get it back in spades. By the way don't expect much help again we lost to many good men for the UK and whats it give us now?

Battis
06-17-2016, 04:26 PM
Ah, come on, I'm a just funnin' wid ya.

UKShootist
06-17-2016, 04:55 PM
Mabey it's you ain't (USA ya know the guys you call when the Germans scare you) here for good reasons you like to think.

Maybe I'm not here for the good reasons I like to think? I'm here because this forum appears to be a world recognised source for good information on bullet casting and other shooting related information, and there's no 'maybe' about it.

The guys we call when Germans scare us? Well then, we were calling for over two years. Let's see. You were not around as a nation, just a few brave volunteers who recognise the evils of a Nazi regime and came to fight it, until Pearl Harbour, IIRC. Even then, your military leaders, not ours, decided that the war in Europe had to take priority over the war with Japan. Germans scared us? Pearly Harbour apart, just how many American cities were bombed repeatedly in WW2? Parts of our major cities were bombed flat but we carried on. At least try and study your own country's history from sources other than fantasised Hollywood films starring the likes of Mel Gibson.


Insult us Americans get it back in spades. By the way don't expect much help again we lost to many good men for the UK and whats it give us now?

Insult you Americans? What can ever be insulting about the truth? And you lost too many good men for the UK? With the greatest of respect, that's offensive nonsense, and offensive not to the UK but to the USA. Yes, America lost very many good men. They died for freedom , fighting against tyranny, and to help very many other countries that had fallen under the jackboot. They died hard and paid the butchers bill without complaint. I will not remain silent while their heroism is trivialised for the sake of childish points scoring on a forum by one of their own.

Finally, what do we give you now? for a start, we are one of the few significant countries that remain friends with the USA, offering support above and beyond duty. Hell, we even helped you render your political prisoners to other countries to be tortured so that you wouldn't get your hands dirty.

But here's the nub of it. I have visited the USA three times, spending most of my time with US police officers studying their working methods. A more friendly and generous bunch of people I have yet to meet. Sure they have their failings (not that I have met them all!) but it's a great country for all it's failings. Like the UK, it has it's own problems, many are quite severe, but I'm glad we are clinging to the 'special relationship' and I look back on Ronald Regan's presidency as a high point.

So, pick the bones out of that if you wish.

Battis
06-17-2016, 05:05 PM
Review some of what you posted, and you might get an inkling (look it up) as to why you pissed some of us off.

RoadBike
06-17-2016, 06:18 PM
I haven't read all of the posts, but I am reminded of the following:
Winston Churchill: "Americans and British are one people separated only by a common language."

JSnover
06-17-2016, 07:03 PM
Topics to avoid outside The Pit; Religion, politics, and now apparently, semantics.

castalott
06-17-2016, 07:07 PM
[QUOTE=






That is not ignorance triumphing, but a sense of humour that is, in fact, in many ways quite British.

N.B.
Humour, especially irony, does not cross the Atlantic well from east to west, which may be because the founding fathers left theirs behind out of choice. . :lovebooli :kidding:[/QUOTE]


Oh...I don't know....Peter Cook, Peter Sellers, Benny Hill, and Monty Python did quite well here...

Aunegl
06-17-2016, 09:14 PM
I apologise for raising this but it's driving me nuts! (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?309147-I-apologise-for-raising-this-but-it-s-driving-me-nuts%21/page6)Kinda reminds me of a story:
A pirate comes into a bar with a big steering wheel sticking out of his fly.
Bartender says: Hey matey, what's with the wheel?
The pirate says: Arrrrrr, it's driving me nuts!

UKShootist
06-18-2016, 04:16 AM
Topics to avoid outside The Pit; Religion, politics, and now apparently, semantics.

:smile::smile::smile:

toallmy
06-18-2016, 05:10 AM
:CastBoolitsisbest::awesome:Welcome to the fun UkShootist

Bigslug
06-18-2016, 11:19 AM
I scrounge range lead throughout the year, and during the cooler months, my father and I do one or two burns a year.

Since it's not something we do as frequently as say, casting or loading, we build up to the event with some sense of ceremony. We refer to it as "The Coming of The Great Smelt" and we make a lot of references to this guy:

170464
If you can't have fun with your hobby, why leave work?

mdi
06-19-2016, 11:30 AM
Well, I've read instructions for how I'm to write my posts from a person that speaks another language. I'm reading US history form a person from another country. For someone who has come here for "world recognised source for good information on bullet casting and other shooting related information", he sure is making as a$$ of himself and alienated a good part of Castboolits members with his "superior arrogance". My thoughts; stuff him on the "ignore" list...

UKShootist
06-19-2016, 11:48 AM
My thoughts; stuff him on the "ignore" list...

Doing us both a favour.

OS OK
06-19-2016, 12:27 PM
UKS...
In this forum, once the 'spit starts flying', you can't settle it or even make a point that everyone can agree with...it's like we are all from different planets! It becomes 'spit'...'spit back'...'spit'...'spit back'...endless dribble of accusation/retort...without end! Once you get some of these 'mutts' barking, it's bark, bark, bark...thread topic goes out the window. When I say 'mutts', it applies equally to men from both sides of the pond, equally to those who cannot refrain from the 'slur and innuendo'...
The best you can do is...Shake it off and find a new thread to participate in...the 'mutts' will be 'barking' long after your departure!

OS OK

jsizemore
06-19-2016, 02:21 PM
There's all kinds of things messed up over here. We got men dressed up as women and we're supposed to call them "she" especially if they want to use the women's bathroom. We even got a sock puppet we call "president". "Smelting" seems to be the least of our worries. I glad you folks can keep us straight on our misuse of your language.

runfiverun
06-19-2016, 02:25 PM
I love these threads.
it gives me someplace to go when I want to judge some ones character.

randyrat
06-19-2016, 02:31 PM
You fellows are bumping heads about simple words and I'm dealing with my MOTHER IN LAW..I'm grilling Chicken legs, thighs and Top sirloin steak, you know what she said to me; What, no chicken breast. Then she said; don't make that chicken black.[smilie=b:

blackthorn
06-19-2016, 03:00 PM
First, a bit of background. I hated school! I love to read. I left with a partial grade 11! I felt that was enough for what I saw as my future needs education-wise. Worked for a lot of years too. Nevertheless, the last 15 years of my working life I wound up writing decisions with respect to appeals by workers and employers from our Worker's Compensation system. These decisions had to be well enough written to stand alone in the Canadian court system if they were challenged. None of mine ever were. Now, the point of all this is that I had a LOT of "instruction" from my peers (some of whom were/are lawyers) and from a goodly number of the support staff (I married one) who had to type my dictation. After 15 years I became quite critical when reading other people's written offerings. It did not take me long to decide that if I could make sense of what the writer was trying to get across it was good enough. Life is too short to go around nit-picking other people's work. For instance, I had an ongoing battle with a Lawyer over my habit of not using the word "that" very often. She would add "that" to my decisions and I would take it back out. One day she came into my office with a publication (can't recall just what it was) and she pointed out that my way was the way Americans wrote and her way was (the proper) British way, so I was wrong! I told her all she had proven was that I would have made a better American than a Brit, and there was never any doubt that was true.

OS OK
06-19-2016, 03:42 PM
You fellows are bumping heads about simple words and I'm dealing with my MOTHER IN LAW..I'm grilling Chicken legs, thighs and Top sirloin steak, you know what she said to me; What, no chicken breast. Then she said; don't make that chicken black.[smilie=b:

Enjoyed that one...mine is in a jar now, we sent her back to her sisters in Connecticut...I hope she doesn't find her way back!
Down in Texas they have 'Mother in Law Horses'...take her on vacation soon! Tell her there's great BBQ'd chicken breast down there.

Certaindeaf
06-19-2016, 03:47 PM
Melting or smelting? As regular as clockwork I see references to people 'smelting' lead when it's clear from their post that they mean they are 'melting' lead. Smelting is the recovery of metals from metallic ore. Melting is a process of heating lead until it turns from a solid to a liquid. In one sense it may appear unimportant I know, but it's not difficult to get right, is it? It's a bit like calling nitro propellants gunpowder, it seems to me. [smilie=b:

(Now diving for cover, flameproof gloves, bug out bag, and tinfoil hat at the ready) :p

I'm pretty sure you get it hot enough to pour.. and then pour.

Chris C
06-19-2016, 04:17 PM
I like the term "rendering".............sounds a bit more sophisticated than melting or smelting. :p

9.3X62AL
06-19-2016, 04:22 PM
To paraphrase Mark Twain's view of like and similar matters, he stated that he had no use for a man that could only spell a word one way. I'll bet that being his copy editor was daunting prospect.

Context can be everything--so can location. This a bullet-making board, at its core. So use of the word "smelt" in this environment is not the most accurate or concise term to describe 'rendering and/or blending metals into alloys suitable for bulletmaking', but it is sure as heck a lot shorter and more efficient. Someone on here MIGHT be involved in the extraction of bullet metal from ore, but if so it has been kept low and dark.

Then again, those of us who frequent range berms to glean our casting metal from could argue that the sand/dirt/jackets/etc. we extract via meltdown are dross resulting from a "smelting" of sorts.

I'm not one to chew over a bunch of gold-leaf distinctions (yet another Twain-ism for ya). I know what folks here are saying/meaning when they embark on a smelting project, even if it isn't the most correct description of what they are doing. (A "hot dog" doesn't contain canine derivatives, either--or shouldn't, anyway). I have seen folks here and elsewhere refer to the process of melting wheelweights into ingots as "domestication of wild wheelweights". This always brought to mind images of a bird farm near the area I grew up, in which chukar partridge and a couple kinds of pheasants were "yard birds", on staff to control bugs and beautify the grounds.

To conclude--for those who get or got all wrapped around the axle over things said within this thread, take the advice of an old Monty Python skit and go get "Hanged by the neck until you CHEER UP!"

dudel
06-21-2016, 07:41 AM
I like the term "rendering".............sounds a bit more sophisticated than melting or smelting. :p


When in doubt, make up a new word. From now on, my process will be known as "Ingoting". I'm making ingots. :-)

9.3X62AL
06-21-2016, 06:18 PM
When in doubt, make up a new word. From now on, my process will be known as "Ingoting". I'm making ingots. :-)

Ah, yes--ingotizing my feral metals into domesticated alloy in ferrous receptacles.

I'll be here all week--be sure to tip the waitstaff generously.

TXGunNut
06-22-2016, 12:12 AM
Welcome to the forum, UKShootist. I enjoy a sharp wit and a dry sense of humour. ;-) In my profession concise terms are important but around here a bit of jargon comes into play and keeps things orderly. Common language indeed, lol.
Reminds me of my Australian friend; he and his GF come to America on business for a month or two twice each year. When he first gets here he's a bit hard to understand but by the time he's fixin' to head home he's picked up a Texan drawl and even speaks a little Tex-Mex.
May want to tread lightly, some of us country bumpkins are somewhat edjumicated but still resent grammar cops.

UKShootist
06-22-2016, 04:52 AM
Welcome to the forum, UKShootist. I enjoy a sharp wit and a dry sense of humour. ;-)

Let me know if you find any. I need all the help I can get. :smile:

To expand upon my initial enquiry, I can quite understand the use of the word 'smelting' in relation to the recovery of scrap lead, if it's used in the knowledge that smelting is the term for recovering metal from ore, but also as a term of convenience for a particular type of lead melting. The trouble is, I've seem too many times the word clearly used without that knowledge by people who then get period pains when corrected because they feel they have to defend their ignorance. A simple reply along the lines of "Yeah, we know that but we use the word as a term of convenience when we are talking about recovering scrap lead." then I am introduced to the custom. To make matters worse, my detractors seek to prove they are right on the basis that I am a 'foreigner' proof if ever there was that I must be wrong. In any event, it might be more polite to call me an 'ancestor'. :smile:

(smileys included for the benefit of the humour deprived.)

RogerDat
06-22-2016, 05:18 AM
Oh, cricket is easy to explain.

You have two sides, one out in the field and one in. Each man that's in the side that's in goes out, and when he's out he comes in and the next man goes in until he's out. When they are all out, the side that's out comes in and the side that's been in goes out and tries to get those coming in, out. Sometimes you get men still in and not out.

When a man goes out to go in, the men who are out try to get him out, and when he is out he goes in and the next man in goes out and goes in. There are two men called umpires who stay out all the time and they decide when the men who are in are out. When both sides have been in and all the men have been out, and both sides have been out twice after all the men have been in, including those who are not out, that is the end of the game

See, easy.

Reading this explanation makes me want to find a grizzly with a toothache to challenge to a rugby scrum, make that too bears and a wet wild cat. Less painful than the explanation I'm sure. Sad thing is I think it is probably accurate and would make perfect sense in several different countries.

UKShootist
06-22-2016, 06:02 AM
Reading this explanation makes me want to find a grizzly with a toothache to challenge to a rugby scrum, make that too bears and a wet wild cat. Less painful than the explanation I'm sure. Sad thing is I think it is probably accurate and would make perfect sense in several different countries.

I can say, on the benefit of experience, that there are few things more pleasurable than sitting by the pavilion on a cricket ground on an all too rare beautiful summer's day watching a game of cricket while getting slowly slaughtered on fine ale.

Apropos nothing at all, I believe it was Marilyn Munroe who said that only in England will people see a young man and a young girl walking out in the countryside carrying a blanket and assume they are going to watch a game of cricket.

dudel
06-22-2016, 07:20 AM
To expand upon my initial enquiry, I can quite understand the use of the word 'smelting' in relation to the recovery of scrap lead

Welcome to the forum UK. Glad to have you here. I now see the root of your problem. SMELTING is a contraction of Scrap MELTING. We're melting scrap, so we're smelting. See, all problems solved.

How about a nice glass of sweet tea?

UKShootist
06-22-2016, 07:26 AM
Welcome to the forum UK. Glad to have you here. I now see the root of your problem. SMELTING is a contraction of Scrap MELTING. We're melting scrap, so we're smelting. See, all problems solved.

How about a nice glass of sweet tea?

If you have Earl Grey I'd be delighted.

One of the delights of visiting certain places in the USA was the shock experienced by people there that I drank tea very hot, with milk.

toallmy
06-22-2016, 07:27 AM
I'm still confused do you hit the cricket with that big paddle , or Chase the guy that that can't pitch very good with it .

DerekP Houston
06-22-2016, 08:23 AM
If you have Earl Grey I'd be delighted.

One of the delights of visiting certain places in the USA was the shock experienced by people there that I drank tea very hot, with milk.

Is there any other way to drink hot tea?! We drink a lot of "iced tea" down here in Texas, but earl grey with milk is fantastic.

RogerDat
06-22-2016, 09:30 AM
Well sir, I am a philistine. I drink hot Lipton black, that's right tea dust in a paper bag. :-) And then only when it is a choice between strong tea or instant coffee. Rather drink real tea than re-manufactured coffee. But instant has gotten better last time I tried it. And for either coffee or tea I'll pass on the milk and sugar. If I wanted a bowl of milk and sugar I would be having breakfast cereal.

mold maker
06-22-2016, 10:48 AM
Thanks, UKShootist (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?44352-UKShootist) . What is the next 7-page ramble going to be? After taking the time to read it all, I neither learned nor improved my knowledge on what I've done for over 55 years.
Now, before it gets to Hot I'm going out back to smelt/melt/render/reclaim, or otherwise remove the unwanted trash from some lead I found/dove for/repatriated/gleaned from a dumpster.
Hopefully those who read this will understand, I'm cleaning lead to cast some BOOLITS

Char-Gar
06-22-2016, 11:07 AM
Folks get the idea that because we sorta kinda speak the same language, or at least can communicate without a translator, the Americans and Brits are the same people.

It only took a few generations of being separated from England, and Americans became quite different people and we wanted no part of King George and his minions. We began to understand liberty in quite a different way and chaffed at being subject of anybody. In the many generations since 1776 we have only become more different.

I have no problems with Brits doing things their own way. They are entitled to be, do and speak any way they like. I don't poke fun at them or admonish them for their quaint and curious ways. That said, I hold no admiration for Britain and could care less what they think about me any/or my ways. For the most part, they are a bunch of elitist snobs who think themselves more important than their position in the world indicates. There are of course exceptions. People should be judged on the content of their character and not on the color of their passport.

Trolls seem to be an international lot and their behavior transcends national borders. The notion seems to be to post something critical that is sure to draw fire and then sit back and watch the show. They get their fun from the power they have to get people upset. Whatever their nationality, they are a pretty low lot.

Char-Gar
06-22-2016, 11:10 AM
Well sir, I am a philistine. I drink hot Lipton black, that's right tea dust in a paper bag. :-) And then only when it is a choice between strong tea or instant coffee. Rather drink real tea than re-manufactured coffee. But instant has gotten better last time I tried it. And for either coffee or tea I'll pass on the milk and sugar. If I wanted a bowl of milk and sugar I would be having breakfast cereal.

I recall about 35 years ago, while living in Ecuador, a Brit asked me if I could get somebody to bring Lipton's Tea back from the States. He said that it was hard to get the good American Tea in England and when it could be found it was quite expensive. I got him a box of 100 bags and he said he would be my friend for life.

RogerDat
06-22-2016, 12:12 PM
Language can make for some interesting humor.
An English gentleman was traveling in the west to look into investing in the cattle business. His contacts had suggested that he visit a very successful large scale ranch in the area. The gentleman hires a buggy and drives to the ranch. On arriving at the house he spies an old cow hand sitting on the porch mending some harness, the English gentleman politely inquires if the mans master was in. To which the old cow hand replied as he stomped off in disgust; The son-of-a-birch ain't been born that is my master, and if I meet anyone that claims they is I'll plug em and plant em right then and there.

Anyway.... page 8 is not only off in the weeds but has not changed a single mind about anything meaningful. Except that one fellow back a few pages that decide he was going to use render because it sounded higher class than smelt or melt. Next thing you know he will be holding his ladle with his pinky extended!

UKShootist
06-23-2016, 06:20 AM
Language can make for some interesting humor.
An English gentleman was traveling in the west to look into investing in the cattle business. His contacts had suggested that he visit a very successful large scale ranch in the area. The gentleman hires a buggy and drives to the ranch. On arriving at the house he spies an old cow hand sitting on the porch mending some harness, the English gentleman politely inquires if the mans master was in. To which the old cow hand replied as he stomped off in disgust; The son-of-a-birch ain't been born that is my master, and if I meet anyone that claims they is I'll plug em and plant em right then and there.

Humour across the Atlantic doesn't always travel very well it's true. But the above sentiment is one I would express myself if addressed today in such a fashion, albeit in slightly less threatening language as I would not feel intimidated, but with a two word expression common and well understood to both our countries, ending in 'off', even if Oscar Wilde would turn slightly in his grave at such poor wit. As a police officer I often had 'customers' demand to see my superior. The usual response was to point out that they may see my senior officer, but I have no superiors. (One has to be polite on duty)


Anyway.... page 8 is not only off in the weeds but has not changed a single mind about anything meaningful. Except that one fellow back a few pages that decide he was going to use render because it sounded higher class than smelt or melt. Next thing you know he will be holding his ladle with his pinky extended!

Who wanted to change anyone's mind? For me this has been a useful exercise in understanding the adaptation of language. Not a problem as long as what is said is fully understood, which I now know, thanks to this thread, it generally is. And reverse snobbery is snobbery for all that. By way of information, extending the little finger when drinking tea, (or holding a ladle) is recognised by all with manners as an affectation of the ill bred with delusions of grandeur.

rosewood
06-23-2016, 06:30 AM
To paraphrase Mark Twain's view of like and similar matters, he stated that he had no use for a man that could only spell a word one way. I'll bet that being his copy editor was daunting prospect.

Context can be everything--so can location. This a bullet-making board, at its core. So use of the word "smelt" in this environment is not the most accurate or concise term to describe 'rendering and/or blending metals into alloys suitable for bulletmaking', but it is sure as heck a lot shorter and more efficient. Someone on here MIGHT be involved in the extraction of bullet metal from ore, but if so it has been kept low and dark.

Then again, those of us who frequent range berms to glean our casting metal from could argue that the sand/dirt/jackets/etc. we extract via meltdown are dross resulting from a "smelting" of sorts.

I'm not one to chew over a bunch of gold-leaf distinctions (yet another Twain-ism for ya). I know what folks here are saying/meaning when they embark on a smelting project, even if it isn't the most correct description of what they are doing. (A "hot dog" doesn't contain canine derivatives, either--or shouldn't, anyway). I have seen folks here and elsewhere refer to the process of melting wheelweights into ingots as "domestication of wild wheelweights". This always brought to mind images of a bird farm near the area I grew up, in which chukar partridge and a couple kinds of pheasants were "yard birds", on staff to control bugs and beautify the grounds.

To conclude--for those who get or got all wrapped around the axle over things said within this thread, take the advice of an old Monty Python skit and go get "Hanged by the neck until you CHEER UP!"

I refer to wheel weights that I find on the street as "liberated wheel weights". And I call my cast boolits "high velocity wheel weights".

dudel
06-23-2016, 07:55 AM
By way of information, extending the little finger when drinking tea, (or holding a ladle) is recognised by all with manners as an affectation of the ill bred with delusions of grandeur.


LOL. Game, set and match UK!