30-30 Winchester & 200 Grain Boolits...

[BCB]

Anybody shooting a slug that heavy from a 30-30 Winchester—T/C Super 14” in my case…

I can find data up to around 180 grains, but I don’t seem to be able to find data for heavier boolits…

I am sure I could use starting loads, minus a bit, listed the 180’s, but I was just wondering if someone might have a load they have already tried with some success…

Thanks…BCB

[Yodogsandman]

I've shot the RCBS 30-180 SP which was 195gr with 8.0 gr Unique for a plinking load in a H&R single shot 30-30. Shot good.

[paul edward]

I have loaded a few 30/30 with 210 grain 311299 and 10 grains of Unique and with 15 grains of IMR-4198. These need to be single loaded as they are too long to feed through the magazine. Seems an inefficient use of lead when lighter boolits work just as well on the paper targets and tin cans I normally shoot.

[Mk42gunner]

There is an article by Frank Marshall in the 3rd ed. of Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook where he describes using the 311284 in front of 4350 for deer hunting. IIRC he was using a Savage boltgun.

I've never tried that load, and I don't have my copy handy so I'm not going to guess at the charge.

Robert

[BCB]

I have loaded a few 30/30 with 210 grain 311299 and 10 grains of Unique and with 15 grains of IMR-4198. These need to be single loaded as they are too long to feed through the magazine. Seems an inefficient use of lead when lighter boolits work just as well on the paper targets and tin cans I normally shoot.

The 4198 powder sounds interesting. I have used it with the 30-30 also. I am presently shooting the 311041 @~175 grains. It does shoot well from the Contender, but I was going to try heavier in hopes of a better BC and maybe better stability past 200 yards--this may just be wishful thinking though...

Thanks...BCB

[BCB]

There is an article by Frank Marshall in the 3rd ed. of Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook where he describes using the 311284 in front of 4350 for deer hunting. IIRC he was using a Savage boltgun.

I've never tried that load, and I don't have my copy handy so I'm not going to guess at the charge.

Robert

Just look at my 3rd Edition and there it is!!! I will give it a read and see what he might have to say...

Thanks...BCB

[OS OK]

Two questions come to mind...
* Is the twist in the typical .30/30 adequate to spin up a 200 grain projectile for longer yardage? To prevent it from a tumble on the down leg of the trajectory?
* Trying to shoot out past 200 yards...wouldn't the projectile be coming in to the target like a mortar round from a very high trajectory? I am thinking that the slower speed would not be avoidable since the pressure has to be kept within reason.

Just 'spitwadding' some first thoughts...OS OK

[BCB]

Two questions come to mind...
* Is the twist in the typical .30/30 adequate to spin up a 200 grain projectile for longer yardage? To prevent it from a tumble on the down leg of the trajectory?
* Trying to shoot out past 200 yards...wouldn't the projectile be coming in to the target like a mortar round from a very high trajectory? I am thinking that the slower speed would not be avoidable since the pressure has to be kept within reason.

Just 'spitwadding' some first thoughts...OS OK

Well, the twist is 1:10...

Yep, it will have one heck of a rainbow as it travels down the range...

The 311041's have a rainbow also, but they rattle the life-sized groundhog steel at 200 yards with little or no problem...

On a very calm day with a very good sandbag rest, I can hit the same silhouette at 250 yards, but not with the same consistency as 200 yards...

The holdover is the bottom post+ on the Burris 'scope. I think in the 30" range or thereabout...

You can shoot and take a sip of your brew and then hear the clang!!!...

Sort of neat...

Good-luck...BCB

[frank505]

Been messing with the NOE195 grain. In the standard 30/30 with 30.5 grains of 4895 runs 2075 from my carbine. Winchester case Winchester primer.

[Hick]

I've used 311284 with 22-23grains of IMR-4064, for velocities in the 1400-1600 range. Also a 190 grain RCBS (GC) with 9 grains of W231for about 1100 fps.

[runfiverun]

just run the 041 up to jacketed velocity's, that flattens out the trajectory just fine.

[CPL Lou]

Check this out:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?115657-LeveRevoltuion-Powder

CPL Lou

[gnoahhh]

There is an article by Frank Marshall in the 3rd ed. of Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook where he describes using the 311284 in front of 4350 for deer hunting. IIRC he was using a Savage boltgun.

I've never tried that load, and I don't have my copy handy so I'm not going to guess at the charge.

Robert


I met Frank Marshall a few times 'way back in the day'. He was a heckuva guy.

I routinely shoot heavy bullets in .30-30's. A 195 grain FN over 28 grains 3031 is my favorite load of all time. Out of my M54 bolt gun it'll shoot MOA and often enough better to make me smile. I have shot the 311284 out of .30-30's too, usually with a case full of H-4831 or appropriate charges of 4350 (I'm away from my record book so don't have the charge weights). No sweat, no problem, good accuracy and very usable velocity with low pressures.

[45-70 Chevroner]

I am shooting a 195 gr. actually a 180 RCBS that drops a 195 gr boolit with my alloy. I am shooting this boolit in my 94 Win. I have tried it in my 14" TC and it won't stabilize. I have tried a number of loads in it with 0 results. It is probably the twist rate of 1" in 14". The 94 has a 1" in 12" or less I think.

[BCB]

I am shooting a 195 gr. actually a 180 RCBS that drops a 195 gr boolit with my alloy. I am shooting this boolit in my 94 Win. I have tried it in my 14" TC and it won't stabilize. I have tried a number of loads in it with 0 results. It is probably the twist rate of 1" in 14". The 94 has a 1" in 12" or less I think.

All the literature I have read indicates the 30-30 Winchester barrel used with the T/C systems is 1:10. I have measured the twist in my barrel as best I could by pushing a tight patch down the barrel to make the cleaning rod turn and I do come up with very close to 1:10…

Yet, there are several posters, one is considered the “Guru” of T/C information, on other sites who swear T/C never made a 30-30 Winchester barrel with a 1:10 twist—so be it…

I have several Model 94’s and they are 1:12 and an old Model 336 and it is 1/10 also…

Regardless, I tried a full case of 5010-PD as it is an old standby if no data is available—fill the case to the base of the boolit and let ‘er fly…

I have actually had pretty good luck with it and WC-860 in rifle cartridges and heavier boolits…

I tried 10 grains of Unique and it put 3 into a group the size of a half dollar at 50 yards. I have never had good accuracy with Unique in any reduced rifle cartridge load—just me maybe. I do like it in light straight-walled handgun loads…

The pic posted was shot at 50 yards with the Lee C309-200-R and 34 grains of 5010-PD. The velocity was only 1245 fps as could be expected…

A 50-yard group might not mean it will still be stable at greater distances, but I think with the 1:10 twist, it should be…

Sure would like to get around 1400 fps with the accuracy shown in the pic…

Thanks all…BCB

[runfiverun]

ignore the twist and work on the solutions.

that 4831 load mentioned above would be 34-36grs which is a case full to the base of the boolit and will give velocity's between 1800 and 1950 fps from a 20" barrel.
34grs is dead on 1800 in mine and it's a smooth push, clean, and pretty quiet.

[45-70 Chevroner]

ignore the twist and work on the solutions.

that 4831 load mentioned above would be 34-36grs which is a case full to the base of the boolit and will give velocity's between 1800 and 1950 fps from a 20" barrel.
34grs is dead on 1800 in mine and it's a smooth push, clean, and pretty quiet.

Run, are you having any unburned powder left in the barrel? My experience with 4831 even in my 1925 Mod 94 25" 30-30 was leaving some unburned powder, I don't think it was hurting any thing but was just wondering.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

For hunting with cast the 195 grain flatnose - NOE / RCBS 180 works well with 3031, 4198. 2015. For longer range targets a more streamlined bullet will help a lot withwind and trajectory. Lyman/NOE 311332, NOE 311365.

[7br]

I don't have my load data with me, but the lyman 311299 in front of about 12gr of SR4759 was giving me about 1 1/2 groups out of a Contender .30-30 Carbine. I did have to seat the bullet very deep in the case to get the action to close.

[Lonegun1894]

For what it's worth, I KNOW TC has made both .30 Herrett and .30-30 with both 1:14" and 1:10" twists, cause I have had both. At the time I wanted to try to shoot subsonic so sold off the 1:14" twist barrels, but wish I'd kept them now. For what it's worth, the early barrels had the 14" twist and the newer ones had the 10" twist, but I couldn't tell you when the change was made. Both twists shot great, but the 14" twist barrels I had lost accuracy when going above 160grs, and best was around 125-130grs. My only .30" TC barrel now is a 14" long .30-30 with the 1:10" twist, and it loves the Lyman 31141.

[leadman]

I had an old H&R break open gun that I shot the 314299 out of with 11grs of Unique. Slow but was still accurate at 200 yards. Did have quite a bit of drop from 100 to 200 yards.

[JDL]

My go to load in 3 of my .30-30s is the RCBS 180 FN (drops 190 grains with GC and no lube) and 35 grains of H414. Velocity is 1953 fps in 20" barrel and 1970 fps in 24" barrel. Thanks John, it's a winner!

[John Boy]

OK, here's my FIRST experience with maximum distance with accuracy shooting a 30-30:
Here's what I read in the 1949 Ideal Handbook:

The Ideal 311413 ... Squibb gas-check bullet for the Springfield and other 30-06 rifles. Perhaps the most accurate gas-check bullet yet produced. Excellent for target practice up to 600yds

Note the words ... most accurate and up to 600 yards

So, I watched eBay 'hard' for that mold and was lucky to win a bid on the 311413, then - cast a 100 - put GC's on them and reload 20 with the powder charge in the 1949 Handbook

I had the pleasure to shoot it for the 1st time in October 2012 ...
http://www.three-peaks.net/images/311413_169g.gif

... after our 2 day Lever Action Silhouette Match at Ridgway.

Winchester M94, 30-30, Williams peep and a too fat diopter pin on the front sight (which I since have replaced)
Ideal 311413 - Brinell 15.3 - 170.8gr
16.5gr IMR 4759

A box of 20:
* got the 0.481" setting for the 300m pigs - downed 3 in a row
* got the 0.700" setting for the 500m rams - (an approximate 7 inch, 5 shot group on the 500m swinger per my spotter) and then downed 1 ram ... no more rounds


I'm a believer ... 500 meters = 546 yards! :)
And now it is my Lever Action Match Bullet - accurate to 500 meters!
The other bullet that will be my next 500m test is the Ideal 311291 (177gr GC) with 28 - 31grs of 3031

[BCB]

Well, the results are in…

I was using the Lee C309-200-R which was the only heavy weight I had. Maybe other designs might have proven better, but it is expensive spending money for molds and then letting them collect dust if they don’t work…

I used 5010-PD, H-4831, IMR-30-31, IMR-4198, IMR-7383, SR-4759, TRAIL BOSS, and UNIQUE…

Velocities ranged from 825 fps (Trail Boss) to 1598 fps (IMR-7383). That powder gained nearly 250 fps with a 2 grain increase in powder weight. That stuff is strange at times and it seems to have very different burning rates with different cartridges. But, it is the best powder for my 6.8mm SPC and the N.O.E. 279-124-FP. But, that’s another story…

Fifty-Ten Pull Down, IMR-30-31, and IMR-4198 showed very good potential at 50 yards with many of the 3-shot groups at or a tad less than .5”. But, that accuracy at 100 yards went “right down the drain”…

The boolits did put nice round holes at 100 yards so they seemed to be still stable. Groups opened to 2+ inches which is not good enough for the life-sized ground hog silhouette at 250 yards. Probably not even good enough for any consistency at 200 yards either…

So, I just cast a couple hundred 311041’s (This Contender seems to like boolits in the 175-grain range) that have been very good with WC-860 or WC-872 with 35 grains of either powder producing 1303 fps and 1297 fps respectively. Interesting as I chronographed both loads, it took ½ grain more of WC-872 to produce 1305 fps or almost exactly the same as the WC-860. The WC-872 filled the case approximately 1/8” more. I used the mic adjustment screw with the RCBS Uniflow to roughly determine this. It appears that WC-872 is about 95% as dense as WC-860. Pretty much worthless information, but it is something I wanted to know as sometimes WC-872 is available when WC-860 isn’t. I really like both of those powders for some cast boolit loads. No velocity, much unburnt powder in the bore, and dirty as hell but the accuracy has been quite good, especially in the 30-30 and the 7-30 Waters. And the price is always right…

And that’s the way it is with the T/C Super 14 in 30-30 Winchester cartridge…

Good-luck…BCB