ATF to stop issuing FFL to home based dealers

[pretzelxx]

Apparently, the week before I would have spent about $500 to open a home FFL the ATF decides not to issue them anymore.

They now require an actual store front and the dealers are following behind the ATF's wonderful idea that this will solve any issues at all with people getting illegal guns. I'm quite sad... at the same time I realize that maybe, just maybe... I should buy an island and run my own country.... Got the information from thetruthaboutguns if anyone is interested in the source.

[DougGuy]

What do they say about people working from home on firearms? You have to have an FFL to receive one to work on but if you are not actually involved in selling.....

[pretzelxx]

I'm not sure their stance on that. That would more easily be described as a "store front" I suppose. I guess I will have to follow the story more closely to find out more information on whether or not that is going to be effected as well. I'm pretty disappointed in the country this week. First california then the feds... ugh.

[Smoke4320]

Actually that's been going on for several years now
As an FFL holder I had to be Zoned as a business. Have an actual store front be open "regular hours " not say 8PM to 10 PM a couple nights and Saturdays but daylight hours.
I believe the Min opening hours was like 30 hours but it been several years so I might be off a few hours
An ATF agent "visited" to verify the Store Front and hours before they would issue the license
They also confirmed my zoning, business license and state resale permit

[salpal48]

Home base FFl. are the Biggest disaster to local Gun shops.. . Why should a cost of $30.00 let people be able to purchase @ wholesale. . i had a shop in Mt vernon NY. . just to Open The Door in The Am was @ a cost of $5000 per month Cost of Rent , gas & electric, Insurance , state fee, Inspection, security. After all That some Bozo asks if I can match the Shotgun news price.
That God I was able To Close after 5 years

[shoot-n-lead]

Home base FFl. are the Biggest disaster to local Gun shops.. . Why should a cost of $30.00 let people be able to purchase @ wholesale. . i had a shop in Mt vernon NY. . just to Open The Door in The Am was @ a cost of $5000 per month Cost of Rent , gas & electric, Insurance , state fee, Inspection, security. After all That some Bozo asks if I can match the Shotgun news price.
That God I was able To Close after 5 years

All other businesses have to compete with the "home" operators...why are gun dealers any different?

It probably was not the home dealers that put you out of business.

Did you actually do the due diligence to verify that the local area would support your gun shop, before opening up?

[AK Caster]

I am not troubled by the ATF new ruling. There are plenty of pawn shops and gun shops that will do transfers for a reasonable fee.

[dragon813gt]

This isn't new. They shut down all kitchen table FFLs a long time ago. If you're a gunsmith you shouldn't have trouble obtaining one. But you will need regular hours and proper zoning.

[Geezer in NH]

This isn't new. They shut down all kitchen table FFLs a long time ago. If you're a gunsmith you shouldn't have trouble obtaining one. But you will need regular hours and proper zoning.

Proper zoning yes hours no if you get the manufacture license. Did that for years in my old shop.

[dragon813gt]

Proper zoning yes hours no if you get the manufacture license. Did that for years in my old shop.

Yeah, I forgot about that one. Regardless you have to be some form of real business to have a FFL.

[500MAG]

I use a home based FFL to do all my transfers. He lives about a mile from me. In fact, I picked up one from him yesterday. Wasn't the Feds that gave him trouble getting started, it was our cities liberal leaders. I've been thinking about starting a gun range here and he says the city won't allow it at all.

[Geezer in NH]

Yeah, I forgot about that one. Regardless you have to be some form of real business to have a FFL.Buying and selling guns per them needs a license therefore why won't they issue one to you?

One day they are going to deny someone that has money to fight them and they will loose. Most of us regular folks don't have that pleasure.

A door with your info and advertising on it when you are zoned for a home store or shop will work, but you are nuts to have it in your home because that way they get to search everywhere when the want without a warrant.

Better to have a connex box with security installed as your work place IMHO.

[lefty o]

this isnt new by any means, and they did not totally stop issuing FFL's to home based guys with no store front.

[Petrol & Powder]

My understanding of this is home based FFL's selling guns is frowned upon but possible. The real problem seems to be local governments, zoning, business licenses, etc.

The assault on home based FFL's started years ago and many were forced out. A lot of the smaller FFL's operate out of other existing businesses to get around all of the headaches. I know several business that have a FFL as a side source of revenue and that seems to work well.

[dragon813gt]

Buying and selling guns per them needs a license therefore why won't they issue one to you?

I'm not trying to acquire one. I'm not home enough to warrant getting one. And I would also be competing w/ a friend of mine. He has a FFL and works on Glocks and ARs. It's run out of his home but he does have normal business hours.....but you have to call ahead to make an appointment w/ him ;)

As far as smaller FFLs putting larger ones out of business goes. The larger stores in my area charge a ridiculous amount of money for a transfer. They treat it like a burden. So the small FFLs charge a small sum and pocket all the cash.

But it's not all roses for the small guys. I can tell my friend what I want and he will attempt to get it from a distributor. But he's not a high volume dealer and is at the back of the line. I've taken to using Gunbroker because he can't seem to get me anything. I'm not upset because the same thing happens in my trade w/ the small guys at the back of the line.

My Grandfather and Great Uncle were victims of the ATF yanking their FFLs because they didn't have a storefront. My Great Uncle actually sold a good bit of firearms but he didn't want to go through the hassle of getting a business license, zoning changes and a storefront. It was actually a good thing because he died shortly after and it would have been a burden on his wife. Wish I was old enough to purchase from them when they had their FFLs :)

[AK Caster]

My Grandfather and Great Uncle were victims of the ATF yanking their FFS because they didn't have a storefront. My Great Uncle actually sold a good bit of firearms but he didn't want to go through the hassle of getting a business license, zoning changes and a storefront. It was actually a goos thing because he died shortly after and it would have been a burden on his wife. Wish I was old enough to purchase from them when they had their FFLs :)

No wonder they yanked it from your Uncle. He wanted the FFL, wanted to sell firearms, but didn't even want to get a business license.

[mrvmax]

Not true, nothing has changed and I am home based. I think there was an article on TTAG but it was garbage. As usual too much bad info about being an FFL.

[mrvmax]

My understanding of this is home based FFL's selling guns is frowned upon but possible. The real problem seems to be local governments, zoning, business licenses, etc.

The assault on home based FFL's started years ago and many were forced out. A lot of the smaller FFL's operate out of other existing businesses to get around all of the headaches. I know several business that have a FFL as a side source of revenue and that seems to work well.
All true

[dragon813gt]

No wonder they yanked it from your Uncle. He wanted the FFL, wanted to sell firearms, but didn't even want to get a business license.

You do realize that what he was doing was perfectly legal before they decided to change the rules. He wasn't doing it as a business. He was selling to friends and family. It would have cost him to much money to set up a store because it wasn't a business for him. I left out the main reason he had the FFL was because he was a collector. He had a very large collection. At the time the ATF was allowing his type to have FFLs. He did not get mad when they decided to take it away.

[aspangler]

Accordint to the local ATF agent here you can get one for things like transferrs. You can now get one for flea market or gun shows only. I don't need one but the info was interesting.

[TXGunNut]

Not true, nothing has changed and I am home based. I think there was an article on TTAG but it was garbage. As usual too much bad info about being an FFL.

They've been running this garbage up the flagpole for longer than most gun dealers have been in business. Yes, they want to discourage the home based dealer but don't believe everything you read or hear.

[Artful]

All I know is I had to get one because of the .gov saying I sold too many at gunshows
to be a private individual (needed to be a business) - then I didn't sell enough to keep one after change of administration - it's all subject to change without notice depending upon the whims of each administration.

[Mica_Hiebert]

This is no new thing I looked into running a ffl out of my home 10 years ago and was gunna do the gun show thing and the regulations kept me grounded.

[mrvmax]

Accordint to the local ATF agent here you can get one for things like transferrs. You can now get one for flea market or gun shows only. I don't need one but the info was interesting.
Nothing has changed, they still issue types 01, 02, 07 (and a couple of other types) for the same reasons. They do not give a special license for selling at gun shows and it is illegal to sell at a flea market unless you happen to own the place and it is listed on your FFL as place of business. There is not a special license for transfers, nothing has changed recently. You have to be in business and you have to meet all local requirements (i.e. city/county/state laws) and even an HOA needs to give you permission if you are home based. Those are the main reasons why people are denied a license. Do not listne to all the garbage out there, the ATF have proven over and over they do not know their own rules. Ask your local ATF agent to cite us regulations where it backs up his claims - I guarantee he cannot do it since it is not true.

[Geezer in NH]

Another problem now a day is the suppliers WILL NOT sell unless you prove to be a store front wanting photo's of your establishment. This is the gun suppliers asking that not the atf

[MrWolf]

Local zoning is what stopped me in my tracks when I looked into it about five or six years ago. That and all your firearms must be listed, etc..

[mrvmax]

Another problem now a day is the suppliers WILL NOT sell unless you prove to be a store front wanting photo's of your establishment. This is the gun suppliers asking that not the atf
This is true and getting to be the biggest detractor to starting home based. I am grandfathered in at a few but one recently stopped selling to home based (RSR) and I think more are going that direction.

[bstone5]

I had one for 30 years, working out of my garage as a gunsmith. The zoning requirement made me to have to give up my FFL. I got the FFL with some help from a BATF agent who wanted me to work on some long range black powder cartridge rifles for him and some of his friends.

This guy and his friends have all passed on from this earth some years ago.

I started as as Ordance Machinist in the military and have made long range shooting rifles for a long time. I got the lathe, milling machine and other equipment when I finished college and starting working full time as an engineer.

The BATF person who got my FFL said I could still work on rifles as a hobby but could not do work as a business due to the zoning requirements and the deed restrictions in my residential location.

It has been funny about the change in the BATF thinking but at age 70 I was about ready to give up on working on other peoples stuff.

A hobby is fine for me now, I never did transfer any weapons and was not a gun dealer.

Here in the Houston Texas area the BATF is actively using the zoning requirement to force a lot of FFL holders to give up their FFL.

[DerekP Houston]

Here in the Houston Texas area the BATF is actively using the zoning requirement to force a lot of FFL holders to give up their FFL.

When I first started purchasing, the home based FFL were much friendlier and cheaper than the LGS. Sadly my 2 favorites declined to renew their licenses as well and the list seems to be shrinking. I pay a bit more to use the pawn shop and they are slow as balls about sending paperwork and contacting you for pickup. Thanks .gov!

[higgins]

I once had a pawn shop owner pitch a fit because I asked him the reasoning behind the sign behind the gun counter that effective on some date he would no longer do transfers for guns ordered from Bud's. I asked him why he would run business across the highway to another pawn shop that would transfer guns from Bud's and I thought he would blow a gasket. His incoherent gibberish made no sense, but by God I'll bet he showed Bud's a thing or two while steering more business to the dealer across the highway.

It's his business and he can do what he pleases, but I'm convinced stunts like that run more storefront dealers out of business than home dealers do.

[dragon813gt]

Most FFLs around here will not handle transfers from Bud's. Same thing goes for NFA items through Silencershop. It's not an uncommon practice and I sort of understand why they do it. Especially w/ Silencershop because they cannot remotely compete w/ their prices.

[MtGun44]

ATF hates gun owners, wants to do EVERYTHING they can to make it more
difficult, expensive, time consuming and inconvenient to buy a gun.

Any time they can hassle someone in the business in any way or an individual,
they love it.

[Gaseous Maximus]

ATF hates gun owners, wants to do EVERYTHING they can to make it more
difficult, expensive, time consuming and inconvenient to buy a gun.

Any time they can hassle someone in the business in any way or an individual,
they love it. This is so true. Interestingly, the original purpose of a FFL was not to open a business. Back in 1968 mail order firearms were common. The $ 5.00 or some such low price FFL was offered as an incentive, by those who wanted to pass the 1968 Firearms Bill. Anyone who was interested in still buying mail order, with a fairly clean record, could obtain one with a minimum hassle. The situation has devolved into the sordid mess it is today. Clinton got rid of about 2/3 of the FFLs, this was before lawsuits sucessfully challenged some of the rulings. Also it was during his administration that the cost rose so drastically. Distributor policys. and pressure from MFGs have pretty much made them useless. I still have one, why I don't know. I guess because it makes it easy to order of Gun Broker, plus I have about a dozen modified Mausers that I keep promising myself that I'm going to get rid of.

[Smoke4320]

I once had a pawn shop owner pitch a fit because I asked him the reasoning behind the sign behind the gun counter that effective on some date he would no longer do transfers for guns ordered from Bud's. I asked him why he would run business across the highway to another pawn shop that would transfer guns from Bud's and I thought he would blow a gasket. His incoherent gibberish made no sense, but by God I'll bet he showed Bud's a thing or two while steering more business to the dealer across the highway.

It's his business and he can do what he pleases, but I'm convinced stunts like that run more storefront dealers out of business than home dealers do.

Higgins
You don't know from the dealer's end what happens when a buds transfer goes wrong. It's not good.
He has decided he does not want that hassle
All you have to do is read a few of the negative reviews and you will get just the beginning of understanding.
When you are caught in the middle of a customer who demands what he ordered
( with all good rights) and a company who refuses, dodges and delays making THEIR error right and cost free to THEIR customer
You will gain more understanding

[shooterg]

I'm still mad they created this mess in 1968(I turned 18 and was ready to start mail ordering guns !) . NOBODY should have to have an FFL. The biggest dealer herabouts would still do business - they finance, no home based guys do that

[brian1]

ATF hates gun owners, wants to do EVERYTHING they can to make it more
difficult, expensive, time consuming and inconvenient to buy a gun.

Any time they can hassle someone in the business in any way or an individual,
they love it.

That's the impression I've always had, based on stuff I read. I had never met or dealt with anyone from ATF. I just got my home-based FFL, with zero hassles. When the ATF agent came out to my house, I expected the third degree and a nit-picking inspection designed to challenge and try to find a reason to deny my application. It was none of that. The agent couldn't have been more helpful and collaborative. He spent 4 hours going over all the paperwork, rules, details, and answering my questions about how to operate and stay within the rules. When he left he said I'd probably get the license within a couple weeks, which is exactly what happened.

My zoning was not an issue. I think that's the reason many home-based FFLs get turned down; zoning laws that liberals have put in place. We have relatively little of that **** here, so it was a non-issue.

It is true that distributors like Jerry's and RSR won't sell to home-based, but there are plenty of distributors who will, so they are the ones who will get my business.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup like was said if your selling guns out of your home and your not zoned commercial your probably already breaking the law. Seems to me if your zoned commercial and meet all the local laws and put a sign on your door saying your open say 9-noon on Monday and your sitting in your recliner during those hours then you should satisfy the batf. Even that said the local gunshop here is in an addition to the guys home and is open 5 days a week but ive gone there before during business hours and nobody is around so I doubt they could even hold you to being there during the hours you put on the sign. Id bet its more of an economic thing for the batf. My buddy who used to own that same shop had the batf come in every year to spot check his books. Id bet it just cost the batf to much money to run all over the country checking every joe blow who wanted a license to save themselves a couple hundred bucks a year by being able to buy at dealer cost. Bottom line is it is our tax money paying for that agent doing it and I shouldn't have to pay more taxes to make guns cheaper for you to buy. Heck I remember back in the 80s when I worked at a small power plant that had 52 employees and 4 of them had ffl licensees. Real gun dealers who make there living and feed there familys off selling guns have good reason to applaud. You don't see ford giving anyone who wants it a dealership paper and cars at dealer cost. one crazy thing that had me shaking my head just recently was Palemetto state arms. they have deals all the time that if I order a upper its shipped free to my dealer. If the dealer orders it they don't give them free shipping. He said he gets guys all the time that see there prices and want them to order them a gun and sell it at the price psa lists it at. He said some even get angry when he tacks on the shipping (that he had to pay) and 20 bucks for the transfer

[jmort]

this isnt new by any means, and they did not totally stop issuing FFL's to home based guys with no store front.

This is true. My guy operates out of a subdivision in the country. It is a house surrounded by other houses in a residential zone.

[William Yanda]

Re: local zoning-that varies, widely from place to place. I live in a rural community, and am on the Zoning Board of Appeals. Currently our code is being rewritten-an ongoing process for over 2 years. Home based businesses are specifically allowed with some minor restrictions.

[salpal48]

It is about Time this was done. In the north east NY& NJ. This has been Going On for years. The home base FFL is just a scam for People to buy and sell For Cheap. This loop hole does Nothing to Help LGS who have a Physical store and running a business.
If you can't afford to Have a store . , Pay rent, Overhead, Utilities. Then You don't need one For Yourself.
I had a storefront. It was bad Enough to Make a Living But Competing with Guys sell For $20.00 over shotgun News prices . The FFL system was Just a scam For Phony Cheap Gun Dealers

[jmort]

^^^ This makes no sense.

[AZ Pete]

It is about Time this was done. In the north east NY& NJ. This has been Going On for years. The home base FFL is just a scam for People to buy and sell For Cheap. This loop hole does Nothing to Help LGS who have a Physical store and running a business.
If you can't afford to Have a store . , Pay rent, Overhead, Utilities. Then You don't need one For Yourself.
I had a storefront. It was bad Enough to Make a Living But Competing with Guys sell For $20.00 over shotgun News prices . The FFL system was Just a scam For Phony Cheap Gun Dealers

bad attitude??


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[phaessler]

Zoning and the sheriff's office control it here more than you might think. "Used to be you could....." doesnt mean a thing anymore. Best you can do is patronize your LGS and make a friend who won't beat you up on transfers too much, I am thankful for private sales.

[Love Life]

It is about Time this was done. In the north east NY& NJ. This has been Going On for years. The home base FFL is just a scam for People to buy and sell For Cheap. This loop hole does Nothing to Help LGS who have a Physical store and running a business.
If you can't afford to Have a store . , Pay rent, Overhead, Utilities. Then You don't need one For Yourself.
I had a storefront. It was bad Enough to Make a Living But Competing with Guys sell For $20.00 over shotgun News prices . The FFL system was Just a scam For Phony Cheap Gun Dealers

Wow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[EDG]

There is absolutely nothing sacred about owning and running a gun store. No one owes you a living just because you want to peddle guns. If you can't compete you go out of business like millions of farmers and ranchers who cannot compete with large agribusiness or the doctors that can afford to ranch as a hobby. I refuse to do business with an entitled attitude. I sure as hell enjoy the bargains I get from gun show amateurs.





It is about Time this was done. In the north east NY& NJ. This has been Going On for years. The home base FFL is just a scam for People to buy and sell For Cheap. This loop hole does Nothing to Help LGS who have a Physical store and running a business.
If you can't afford to Have a store . , Pay rent, Overhead, Utilities. Then You don't need one For Yourself.
I had a storefront. It was bad Enough to Make a Living But Competing with Guys sell For $20.00 over shotgun News prices . The FFL system was Just a scam For Phony Cheap Gun Dealers

V

[lefty o]

It is about Time this was done. In the north east NY& NJ. This has been Going On for years. The home base FFL is just a scam for People to buy and sell For Cheap. This loop hole does Nothing to Help LGS who have a Physical store and running a business.
If you can't afford to Have a store . , Pay rent, Overhead, Utilities. Then You don't need one For Yourself.
I had a storefront. It was bad Enough to Make a Living But Competing with Guys sell For $20.00 over shotgun News prices . The FFL system was Just a scam For Phony Cheap Gun Dealers

if someone else chooses to run a business in a different manner than , thats your problem not theirs.

[rl69]

It is about Time this was done. In the north east NY& NJ. This has been Going On for years. The home base FFL is just a scam for People to buy and sell For Cheap. This loop hole does Nothing to Help LGS who have a Physical store and running a business.
If you can't afford to Have a store . , Pay rent, Overhead, Utilities. Then You don't need one For Yourself.
I had a storefront. It was bad Enough to Make a Living But Competing with Guys sell For $20.00 over shotgun News prices . The FFL system was Just a scam For Phony Cheap Gun Dealers

I understand what yor saying ( I don't agree with it but I understand) the few people I know that have their ffl for the purpose of buying wepons cheaper are all collectors. They may buy 10 20 guns a year. The mass majority of people don't buy anywhere close to that. And they are the ones who come to you for their needs.

[Blanket]

It is about Time this was done. In the north east NY& NJ. This has been Going On for years. The home base FFL is just a scam for People to buy and sell For Cheap. This loop hole does Nothing to Help LGS who have a Physical store and running a business.
If you can't afford to Have a store . , Pay rent, Overhead, Utilities. Then You don't need one For Yourself.
I had a storefront. It was bad Enough to Make a Living But Competing with Guys sell For $20.00 over shotgun News prices . The FFL system was Just a scam For Phony Cheap Gun Dealers No just the opposite you are required to have an FFL to buy and sell interstate by the GCA of 1968, but yet that gives a storefront guy the chance to jack up the true cost of a firearm so they can profit

[salpal48]

I guess It a matter Of Getting The bargain. Bargains always Cost somebody , somewhere In the US something. My view Is Plain and simple Unless You have a Legit Business Operation. You should Be Denied

[Lloyd Smale]

I agree with salpal but for a differnt reason. What I saw back in the 70s and 80s when everyone was getting licensees was all the local gunshops dried up and went away and you couldn't even find one to go and look at the new guns or find deals on used ones. Heck for a while I had to drive a 150 miles to Greenbay WI to find a gunshop to buy powder and primers at or to look at guns. Since they've made it harder for in the home dealers weve had two new gun shops open, one 5 miles and one 35 miles from here. Lots of suppliers only delt with store front dealers so there was even limited run guns that I just couldn't order. Now ive got two stocking dealers that have to compete with each other on prices so in all reality a guy is paying about 25 bucks over cost for one at the gunshop. Then two the one here has a range so I can go and test fire it immediately and if I have problems down the line I can just drop it off there and they send it in for repair for me. No brainer which way I prefer. Heck if nothing else it gives me a place to go have a cup of coffee and talk guns.

[Blanket]

I guess It a matter Of Getting The bargain. Bargains always Cost somebody , somewhere In the US something. My view Is Plain and simple Unless You have a Legit Business Operation. You should Be Denied it's not about the bargain, it's about being forced to have to go thru a license to buy a firearm,

[salpal48]

I really Do not use Or support any So called business That Does not have a " Store" other Than There Home or truck.
I never use Construction People, Electricians, Plumber and Trade . That works Out Of there Truck. . That the old Tail light Guarantee. No place Of Business No job From me. License without a Place of operation Just does not Cut it

[Walkingwolf]

It's kinda ironic when ya think about it. Before the gun control act anybody could order a gun online, but small business anything from a local grocer to a gas station could sell guns. KMart, Monkey Wards, Sears among others all sold guns. FFL was a business opportunity that took from the pockets of local businesses that used gun sales to support their customers. Now small dealers are making it difficult for people/companies to have a tight hold on firearm sales. That is not pure captialism, it is no different than subsidies for crops, IOW government support.

I will not do any business with FFL that has a statist attitude, they don't belong in this country. They can go to a hot place reserved for evil, and greedy people.

[lefty o]

I guess It a matter Of Getting The bargain. Bargains always Cost somebody , somewhere In the US something. My view Is Plain and simple Unless You have a Legit Business Operation. You should Be Denied

plenty of people run a legit business from their home, just because you dont like it, doesnt make it wrong.

[ATCDoktor]

I really Do not use Or support any So called business That Does not have a " Store" other Than There Home or truck.

I guess you never buy anything out of the classified here on the Castboolit forum.

I guess you never buy anything off the internet either.

You’d be surprised at how many internet businesses aren’t businesses at all by your definition.

[nannyhammer]

I love to frequent the LGS for small items and accessories. However probably my last ten gun purchases have been either Glock Blue Label or via online sources to include Buds. When I can buy the gun, pay shipping and a transfer fee and still beat the LGS that's where my business goes. Case and point...when I was looking for a Super Redhawk, everyone local was $775 or higher plus .08% tax. I purchased the gun with free shipping for $650 or a savings of over $150 even after the transfer fee. I'm just like most others in trying to stretch my dollars as far as possible.

[starmac]

I have never ordered any firearm except for muzzleloaders, period. If I could have found a shop that had a lefty in stock in a 400 mile radius, I wouldn't have ordered it either. I tend to like to look and feel what I am buying, and generally want it then instead of next week too. lol

All that said I have no problems or hangups with what size dealer I do business with, and gun show dealers are fine too.
We have a very good gunsmith/dealer that operates out of his house. You would be surprised how much parts, equipment and stock is crammed in that garage, even the rafters is full of used stocks.

[Shawlerbrook]

Most farmers run businesses out of their houses. Since when is it the government’s business to decide what constitutes a store front. There are many large volume internet dealers of many products that legally operate a home based business. No one is going through all the bureaucratic red tape and money to buy a few guns cheap. Not anymore. Please don’t give the government any more control of our lives, they already have much too much.

[Elkins45]

I really Do not use Or support any So called business That Does not have a " Store" other Than There Home or truck.
I never use Construction People, Electricians, Plumber and Trade . That works Out Of there Truck. . That the old Tail light Guarantee. No place Of Business No job From me. License without a Place of operation Just does not Cut it

Who do you buy your capital letters from? You certainly seem to have gotten a bargain on them.

[cainttype]

Some of the most talented gun builders, true craftsmen, I’ve ever known worked without a formal “storefront”. Some of the best gunsmiths and most knowledgeable shooters I’ve known also survived just fine working part-time from their homes.
By contrast, some of the gun shop owners I’ve known through the years have been complete idiots, and although many of them claimed to be “gunsmiths” they were total incompetents that I wouldn’t let turn a screw on a firearm that belonged to me. They ran shops that were frequented by even dumber clients that enjoyed hanging around and “talking guns” to share their stupidity.

That said, I don’t care how you choose to do business as long as you follow the rules... If you are competent and do good business you will hopefully survive. If you are one of the incompetents, the sooner you are out of business, the better.

[GhostHawk]

Back when the powder and primer shortage hit I tried every single store in town to find Powder and primers I needed.

I got NADA. Nothing. Then I looked at gun prices. Same gun I could buy new from Buds or lightly used from Gun Broker for 300$ + shipping and 20$ FFL fee cost over 500$ in the local stores.

So I cut out the middleman.

My FFL has a full time job, not as an FFL or gun store owner.

He does have a store front, aprox 8 feet by 8 feet. Desk, 3 chairs and a filing cabinet with a few shelves in the back. But he only charges 20$ per transfer and in 4 years I have yet to have a problem with any transfer. All smooth as silk. Gun comes in, he emails me, we work out a time that will work for both of us. We meet, I fill out the form, he calls it in, I sign, pay him, he gives me the gun. Hey presto.

Need an FFL in Fargo ND, Tom Challey at Fargo Arms is the guy. info@fargoarms.c0om.

Solid guy.

He is not taking business away from a brick and mortar store. The brick and mortar stores LOST it because of choices they made.

No one locally bent over backwards to get my business, heck they never even met me half way.

BPI does, great deals, great service, quick shipping. And a phone call solves almost any issue I can imagine. Including "I have this hull, this powder, which wad should I look at".

As a result they get my business, as does Bud's Gun Shop (Yet to have a problem) and Gun Broker. On gunbroker you the buyer need to do the due diligence.

If in doubt, ask questions before committing.

Personally I look for listings that

A Indicate they are a FFL.
B Has a good write up describing the item.
C Has more than 3 clear pictures, and not stock photo's. I want to see the item I am considering.

Any given item may have one strike against it. But I never bid or buy with 2 strikes.

If they take the time and energy to do a good write up, with good pictures. Chances are they will take the time to see that you are happy with your purchase. Someone in a hurry is likely going to be in a hurry with me as well. Easier to just pass them by.

There is a LOT of stuff for sale. If your patient, have the funds handy, watch for the item you really want in good condition and strike hard when you see it. Well there are IMO good deals to be had.

Same is pretty much true for buying here IMO.


There used to be a lot of book stores around too. Then Ebooks happened, and people found easier ways to find what they want. At better prices, more convenient, more selection.

Local Gun stores are going to go the same way. Adapt and survive, or fail to adapt and die.

[MaryB]

I had an FFL, I didn't sell. All I did was laser engraving and needed it so people could ship complete guns to me to be worked on. So in your opinion I should not have ran a business form my home!


I guess It a matter Of Getting The bargain. Bargains always Cost somebody , somewhere In the US something. My view Is Plain and simple Unless You have a Legit Business Operation. You should Be Denied

[M-96 Hunter]

Amazing how many posters on this thread who are IN FAVOR of governments having the right to restrict legal free capitalism in the name of lies about safety.

Need some people to read Adam Smith.

"That government which governs least is best."

[Bzcraig]

I got a FFL in 1985 (allowed it to expire because of crazy CA REGS) and was required to have a "business address." There was no requirement to have a brick & mortar gun store. So things must have changed.....

[CLAYPOOL]

I got my F.FL. in 1985. I have all ways been a home operation. But now the whole house is "JUST FULL". I am the only person here just like some of the MOM + POPS gun sales were back in the day. I am open to calls DAY OR NIGHT. Some do call me at night because they have to work for their family's daily. I have helped the A.T.F. once to stop a person from buying a large amount of hand guns from boarding a plane for over sea's. The other call from them was for a certain pistol. They never told me those details. I also have a firing range. The neighbors 10 miles from here stop a shooting range from going in. That will fix a lot of criminals wagon's wont it..! My records are impeccable, PERIOD.. Lots of people get a license and are gone the next round. Why is that, its hard to have every item people want. Next is pricing. Rural King locally is not very much over dealer price. Will they keep selling guns..?? After a few years we will see. NO RECORDS or won't keep them current.. Want to play expert when talking to some one. Walmart is out of gun business locally. They killed a bunch of dealers back 20 years or so. John Deere is trying to puit all the smaller dealers out right now. They also don't want you to service thjeir newer stuff. What do you think their going with that..?? HHMMMmmmnnnnn?

[Lloyd Smale]

Guess I'm lucky to have a decent gun shop locally that doesn't rape people. I was on psa about a month ago and they had lcps for a 169 bucks. I went over and asked the shop owner if he would except shipment of one. He told me Lloyd there two of them in the gun case for 200bucks a piece. time you pay shipping and tax your saving nothing. When I put together my last AR (still in progress) I wanted an 8.5 in pistol. He sold me a lower for 50 bucks. I had the lower parts kit and pistol buffer and he offered to slap it together for me for free. I showed him on line the upper I wanted from psa and asked if he would order it for me. He told me id be better off ordering it myself because psa's no shipping charges deals are if I order it. If he as a store front dealer orders it he has to pay shipping. His store policy too is anything he sells that breaks he will ship it back for repair and pay the shipping costs if any. He makes maybe 25 bucks on a gun and says hed rather get more business and make 25 bucks off each gun then have half the business because he jacked that up to 50 bucks. He is kept in check by the other gunshop close by and allways beats there price by a few bucks. Bottom line is no store front dealer is going to stay in business long unless they sell at competitive prices. A store front and advertising brings in customers and allows them to sell more so they can sell for less. I don't see many store front gun shop owners driving porches!

[andre3k]

This is an old thread. Original Poster hasn't logged in since June 2017.

[Handloader109]

It is an old thread, and nothing the current BATFE is doing to stop or discourage a person from obtaining a license. I got mine last year because if the regulations. As MaryB stated, to do laser engraving or cerakoting you need an ffl. I'm home based, I have a business license, and yes an ffl. Do I sell? I will, I don't advertise to,I don't stock any firearms. I will do transfers, I can't undercut everyone, a local dealer that has a storefront has already done that for us all. $20 is cheap for dealing with folks in my opinion. The local dealers that have a storefront are no different than any other store. Internet sales. Places like buds that sells everything that they are allowed to for $10 over wholesale price and ships with no taxes where allowed makes it hard to justify spending piles of cash on a storefront when stores currently open are having a hard time competing. Good store here just added on, zero gun additions, just now selling clothes and stuff that is not related to firearms. He's trying to diversify... There just isn't a large margin on anything popular. But again, I'd rather not have to have a ffl but it is REQUIRED...

[Idaho45guy]

If it wasn't for a home-based FFL, I'd have to drive an hour and a half to a gun shop to pay too much for firearms. I live in a town of 1200. No gun shops. Closest "large" town is 15 miles away and has 30k people. No gun shops but has five pot shops. My FFL lives 15 miles away in another small town and is a full-time sheriff's deputy. He is the only FFL in my entire county.

Closest gun shop in my state is 50 miles away and is an Ace Hardware store. Not too much of a selection.

My dad started a little gun store in the early 70's and it grew into a 3-store chain in the 80's. He sold off the other two and kept one that I expected to inherit when he retired. Nope. He said he couldn't make enough money off of guns and fishing tackle anymore . He sold it in 2006 and it was torn down to make room for an Autozone. I still have the original sign and some pictures I took of it the last year it was open.

[woodbutcher]

[smilie=s: The no home based dealers is nothing new.Back when I was 21 I tried to get an FFL.Was told I had to have a business address and store.That was 51 years ago.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[EDG]

I do not support any business that cannot compete price wise or attitude wise. There are a lot of incompetent and offensive jerks in the gun business. The only way they get my business is with a competitive price and product. Otherwise the guy can go broke because I can always find another dealer.


I really Do not use Or support any So called business That Does not have a " Store" other Than There Home or truck.
I never use Construction People, Electricians, Plumber and Trade . That works Out Of there Truck. . That the old Tail light Guarantee. No place Of Business No job From me. License without a Place of operation Just does not Cut it

[waksupi]

There is a small store front gun business locally that sells guns for just above their purchase price. They make their money from the smaller things that go along with the rifle, plus other hunting and shooting related products. They do well, as they get the customer through the door, and treat them right. That keeps them going back. Too many ffl's gouge customers. Gun people DO look at Shotgun News and other sources to see what the wholesale prices are, and know when they are being screwed.

[starmac]

I have to wonder if it is not a lot like car dealerships and most other types of retail dealers, where the wholesale prices is connected to volume. I have a feeling that a big online seller that sells 100 to a 1000 guns a month gets a much better wholesale price than one that sells 10 to 20. I have known several small shops that would order you what you wanted for 20 bucks or so above costs, but still couldn't compete with wallmart on long guns.

In Eastern New Mexico where I lived for years, most gun shops eventually quit stocking long guns after wallmart came in. Some of these had been established for years and were pretty good shops, those that stayed in business went to special order and only really kept handguns, some used guns, and some even collectible rifles, but eventually most quit stocking long guns. They made their money on gunsmithing, ammo, accessories and used guns.

[lefty o]

I have to wonder if it is not a lot like car dealerships and most other types of retail dealers, where the wholesale prices is connected to volume. I have a feeling that a big online seller that sells 100 to a 1000 guns a month gets a much better wholesale price than one that sells 10 to 20. I have known several small shops that would order you what you wanted for 20 bucks or so above costs, but still couldn't compete with wallmart on long guns.

In Eastern New Mexico where I lived for years, most gun shops eventually quit stocking long guns after wallmart came in. Some of these had been established for years and were pretty good shops, those that stayed in business went to special order and only really kept handguns, some used guns, and some even collectible rifles, but eventually most quit stocking long guns. They made their money on gunsmithing, ammo, accessories and used guns.

in just about any business, if you can get enough volume you will get a price break, which in effect will allow you to have lower prices, and sell more, etc etc...................

[MaryB]

Small gun shops near me do 70% of their business online via Gun Broker... and they take care of their loyal walk in customers. I went in one day for a brick of 22 and a guy who buys there maybe twice a year(and never a large purchase) had just bought one for $39.

Owner hands me my brick, says I put it on your tab, it was $25.

Other guy has a fit about paying $15 more until the owner tells him he can take his business elsewhere if he wants, you buy under $100 a year here, Mary spent $2,200 here in the last year so she gets a discount for volume. Dude stomps out the door saying he will never come back... yup a month later he was back wanting more 22lr because that shop was the only one with stock. He glared at me as he paid full retail then stomped out as we broke out laughing soon as the door closed. Heck I wasn't even buying that day, I came in to test a pistol on his range to see if I liked it and would buy it. Glock17, grips just don't fit my hand right... didn't buy that one but I tested the PK380 he had and put it on layaway right then and there.

[starmac]

Mary, why, especially since he was putting it on your tab, would your shop owner let a buyer know he is paying more. Sure sounds like someone I would try not to do business with.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup I wouldn't be to pleased either. He would sure loose any future business of mine. He could have at least had the class to wait till the guy left. How would you feel if you were in the grocery store in line and and had the identical cart of grocerys and the cashier charged you twice as much as the person ahead of you because you lived alone and didn't need as much food every month?
Mary, why, especially since he was putting it on your tab, would your shop owner let a buyer know he is paying more. Sure sounds like someone I would try not to do business with.

[lefty o]

dont believe everything you hear folks!

[RED BEAR]

I may be the odd one out I don't believe the gov. Has the right to regulate the gun industry. The court has ruled it is an individual right . another court just ruled that Florida had to let fellons vote because it is there right. I just don't think the gov should regulate rights under the constitution. The gov should stop regulating drugs ( then no war on drugs ). I am not a anarchists I do think we need laws. But as long as you are not harming any one but your self its nobody's business. A message I wish the gov could learn.

[MaryB]

Because the other customer was a pain who wasted a lot of his time he could have spent working on rifles... he was trying to get rid of him LOL


Mary, why, especially since he was putting it on your tab, would your shop owner let a buyer know he is paying more. Sure sounds like someone I would try not to do business with.

[SP5315]

That's the impression I've always had, based on stuff I read. I had never met or dealt with anyone from ATF. I just got my home-based FFL, with zero hassles. When the ATF agent came out to my house, I expected the third degree and a nit-picking inspection designed to challenge and try to find a reason to deny my application. It was none of that. The agent couldn't have been more helpful and collaborative. He spent 4 hours going over all the paperwork, rules, details, and answering my questions about how to operate and stay within the rules. When he left he said I'd probably get the license within a couple weeks, which is exactly what happened.

My zoning was not an issue. I think that's the reason many home-based FFLs get turned down; zoning laws that liberals have put in place. We have relatively little of that **** here, so it was a non-issue.

It is true that distributors like Jerry's and RSR won't sell to home-based, but there are plenty of distributors who will, so they are the ones who will get my business.

Same experience here. I was issued a FFL license for my new home based business last October. 67 days from submission to receiving the FFL. And of course a 30 minute interview with the local ATF field agent. I live in the county area of Reno NV. All I was required to have was a County business license, resale license and a IRS taxpayer ID. I opted to forming a LLC instead of a DBA. Other folks I know around here also run FFL's out of their homes within the city limits. Now If I was in California where I had to gave up my last FFL run as a home based business 25 years ago, it was then, and now totally out of the question there. I do most of my selling online and do a fair amount of transfers for folks buying from Gunbroker, Palmetto State Armory, and a couple from cheaper than dirt after signing up as a transfer dealer on their websites.

[gandydancer]

Apparently, the week before I would have spent about $500 to open a home FFL the ATF decides not to issue them anymore.

They now require an actual store front and the dealers are following behind the ATF's wonderful idea that this will solve any issues at all with people getting illegal guns. I'm quite sad... at the same time I realize that maybe, just maybe... I should buy an island and run my own country.... Got the information from thetruthaboutguns if anyone is interested in the source.

After you buy your island and it becomes a country "your country" Declare war on the USA, The USA will win the war & pump tons of money into your economy so your country will remain friendly to the USA. You will have it made.