What is a Decent ES and Std Dev for Pistol Rounds

[edctexas]

I finally got to run my LabRadar on a variety of Loads for 9mm, 40S&W, 357Mag, and 44Mag. Nearly all of the loads had ES of 45-50 FPS and Std Dev of around 10FPS. Does this sound in the ball park for good ammo? The Average velocity for each load was about what I would expect. All rounds were PC coated. There was a series of three X 10 rds in 44Mag with all the same except boolit diameter. It was interesting because 0.002 over had the best Std Dev beating 0.001 and exactly bore dia. That had the most variation. So anybody who has chronoed pistol rounds please chime in!

Ed C

[reddog81]

I don't have a chronograph but based on what I've seen posted over the years your numbers seem pretty good. I'm guessing an average SD would be around closer to 20 FPS.
You could try some factory ammo and seem if your SD's are lower. That would be a good baseline for your guns.

[chutesnreloads]

Doubt you'll be shooting handguns far enough for the SD or ES to matter a hill of beans.How're your groups?

[Hick]

I get SD down around 15 with an easily metered powder like W231, more like 20 or higher with hard to meter powders like 700X--but I have to agree with chutesnreloads, groups mean more. Unless I have a very solid rest my skill (or lack thereof) seems to have a bigger effect than consistent velocity.

[Shiloh]

In rifles, particularly at distance, ES and SD come into play. The further the distance, the more you will see the effects.
Find someone that shoots distance on a regular basis and ask them. Things change rapidly past 500 yards.
Temperature will also affect your SD and ES. What works well at 45 degrees or a bit cooler, probably won't be the same at
90 degrees plus.

Shiloh

[10mmShooter]

OP

1. Your target will tell you what loads your gun likes best,(sometimes, SD/ES do not correlate with accuracy, sometime they do)
2. yes <20 SD with pistol rounds is very good and acceptable. Lots of factory ammo will not be that good.
3. My best .44 mag target loads are have 7 SD and 23 fps ES. I only have a few loads that chrono this good.
4. Most of my hand loads are <20 SD <50 ES, If I get number higher, I usually start look at what may cause the high numbers, such variations in brass, bullet weight etc.

[runfiverun]

that larger diameter test you done should point you in the right direction.

anyway if you wanna see something you never considered before bolt that thing on your shotgun barrel.

[Loudy13]

I have moved from using the Chronograph when testing rounds unless I am trying to get to a specific FPS to match an original load or something along those lines. I use a rest and shoot for the best group, recoil, function and so on. I did learn that when all the groups look great start shooting farther out and see what happens.

Just my deuce cents

[fecmech]

IME ES's in the 40-50 fps range for 10 shot strings with SD's in the teens is pretty common with good pistol ammo. That said, I always shoot for group when testing ammo and the chronograph for me is just incidental information. When doing machine rest testing years ago I witnessed many times high or low velocity shots go into the center of a group at 50 yds and some of the median velocity shots go to the edges of the group. Bullet quality is the # 1 concern if accuracy is your goal.

[Blackwater]

Some good advice above. Your results are pretty good for good ammo, and probably somewhere near average, to a tad better than avg. Shiloh and Fecmec make excellent points, too. ES and SD's don't necessarily indicate best accuracy. Only way to determine that is to shoot on paper and test it out. And with handguns seldom being shot at long range, except in Sihouettes, etc., ES and other specs aren't nearly so important as accuracy and being able to simply hit what we're shooting at. Even with rifles, one has to be shooting at something pretty far out there for ES to make a noticable difference, and I doubt any real hunter will ever tell the difference. Those super long range shooters pretty well HAVE to hit as exactly as possible, because even those big, long, heavy, pointy bullets lose most of their velocity way on out there, and don't expand nearly as well as thy would on closer shots, so precision of delivery becomes even more important while ability to achieve that diminishes at a geometric rate. I just can't for the life of me respect what they do, though their skill when successful is truly exemplary. I love long range shooting at targets, but not at live animals. It's just not within my nature.

[Don Fischer]

I have seen SD's that everyone say are terrible, shoot well! My 30-06 I was working with and 180gr cast i was getting SD of 100+, stuff shot great! Explain that. I don't recall the extreme spread any more but it wasn't the best! Sometime's I'm sure we were better off before the chronograph came around and we simply looked for load's that shot well!

[35remington]

Want to see what ES and SD really can be in varying scenarios? Especially with many powders that fill only part of the case?

Try several shots will powder near bullet (simulating a draw from a holster) and powder near primer. This reality check is rarely done. It should be done all the time in load evaluation.

[shooter93]

I don't generally pay much attention to either unless I'm going to be shooting the gun long range. Then I watch extreme spread closer because I think it takes a lot of rounds fired to get a true sd. But a big jump in es will show up quick at long range.

[Cherokee]

I like small SD and ES but primarily I shoot for group and the Chron info is just part of the load history unless there is a targeted velocity for some reason. Lots of my pistol loads hit 9-10 SD and around 50 or so ES. Haven't tested that many rifle loads to have an opinion.

[OS OK]

OP, lets talk and throw a few thoughts against the wall and see if anything sticks...

If the SD/ES numbers are low, it tells me...this is my thinking and I sometimes take that too far...but...if they are both low I think that there can be some assumptions made regarding the components we put together and the pistol we test them in. I say pistol because it was the pistol I have had the most opportunity to mess around with here behind the shop and it is those numbers that takes me down this rabbit hole...So...

If I choose a particular primer, then particular speed of powder and a certain amount of that powder, and that combination propels a certain weight, type and size boolit out of a particular barrel, either auto or single shot or revolver, and this combination does this consistently with low numbers...then I start assuming that this combination is igniting very well, and the powder is burning completely for the particulars relating to the boolit I'm pushing out the muzzle.
The other assumption is that I have stumbled on to a good method of handloading these components...consistent powder drop in weight, proper expansion of the case and proper seating depth and crimping, all these aspects in a nutshell so to speak.
In my little brain, any deviation or poor choice of the above wouldn't allow a consistent set of low numbers.
Whether your pistol is going to like the results of this combination has to be determined as said in the previous posts especially regarding position of power in the partially filled case which was an excellent point.
OK, so that's my .02 cents from an old grey retired fella that has too much time on his hands to ponder the vexing mysteries.

OS OK

[44man]

Like everyone else I never found the numbers mean much for accuracy. I have always worked groups first, then run over the chrono just to see what I wound up with.
My worst shooting load ever was down to 1 SD and ES.
My best .44 load runs about 29 ES. I reduced that with more powder but groups went away.
Too many other things at play and 50 to 100 fps change can take your boolit out of twist range.