32-40 Brass Shortage Solved!

[rr2241tx]

As has been endlessly discussed, seasonally available, periodically available, etc., brass has about dried up for many older chamberings. Now that Winchester is apparently out of the business of supplying brass and possibly even loaded ammo for 32-40 Winchester those of us who enjoy shooting ours have to get by on gun show/estate sale finds or make our own. My rifle is a Falling Block Works Model J with an RKSmith gain twist barrel, shuetzen rifle so a few cases will last a long time. But, here's the problem: I've only ever had 20 cases for this rifle and there is a 100 Shot offhand match coming up. Breech seating and reloading one case 120+ times in July heat and humidity isn't my idea of a good time. So to prepare for (heresy) shooting this match I bought a new NOE 4 hole bullet mold, a big box of Starline 38-55 Winchester brass and a set of RCBS Cowboy 32-40 Win dies. And, yes, my chamber is the Winchester (2.085") depth not the older 2.125". Still working on alloy, temperature and pace with the mold but that will get sorted out.

Starline says their brass is hard and the case mouths may be dented. They aren't kidding. I began by trying to size the cases in one step. I got 20 made but lost 5 in the process. So the first step was to run a batch over a .375 expander to round out their mouths because almost any visible defect in the case mouth resulted in a folded case. As long as I was at it I set up the annealer and ran 200 of the expanded cases through it. This greatly reduced the reject rate but I still got a few folded cases. Each of the folded cases had a nick or burr on the case mouth before swaging, so maybe I should have trimmed and deburred after expanding them. All up I ended up with 216 usable cases and 12 fatalities. They all drop right in, so they're not too long and once trimmed to uniform length, inside and outside chamfered are ready to be loaded. All in all a pretty good way to spend a rainy afternoon. Here's a photo of the results:
http://i.imgur.com/wYN2PPI.jpg

[MarkP]

Any defect will cause problems, in industry the trimming operation after head turning would sometime cause a little nick which result in a scrapped case. To reduce loss a mouth ironing operation is preformed just prior to the first taper die to iron out the imperfections. The punch fits the ID of the draw and a spring loaded die with an ID that is slightly larger than the OD of the final draw slips over the mouth. This is done on a double acting press (sub axis on the main ram)

Die setup would be similar to a reloading die where the expander would be adjusted into the neck section of the die.

[CWME]

Those look good from over here. I made mine out of range pickup 30-30 cases but then I am not shooting the old Marlin in competitions. Enjoy your project!

[rr2241tx]

MarkP, the industry guys obviously have a better method than mine. I had 6 of 200 fold on me and one that I discovered a crack in the mouth after I ran them through the annealer and 38-55 expander to round out the mouths. It seems to me that the folds began before the 32 expander would have come into play had I used that die to begin the reduction instead of going directly to the 32-40 full length size die, but maybe not. I'll try that next time.

CW, range pickup 30-30 cases evaporated like spit on the sidewalk when the 2006 Mid-term elections were held. I have been shooting this rifle in competition since 2012 using a single W-W case. The Independence Day 100 Shot Offhand Match last year was the first time I'd attempted to shoot it in that match and by the end of the day I was turning in 10 shot targets with 4 hits on them. This year, I'm going in with sighters and record rounds preloaded and seated long enough to engrave the first driving band when chambered. May not improve my score, but I won't know that until it's tried.

[Baja_Traveler]

I'm still perplexed as to why Starline isn't already making these.

When I obtain a 32-40 barrel for my CPA, I'll have to duplicate your efforts.

[rr2241tx]

Starline recently did make a run of correctly headstamped brass for 32-40 for a company that plans to complete the transformation from 38-55 blanks to 32-40 but sieve-like memory has lost the name of that company. Apparently Starline feels that the demand does not justify the investment in tooling to make 32-40.

[Frank46]

Like the idea of using the rcbs cowboy dies to form 32-40 cases from 38-55 ones. I have a rcbs case forming die around here some place now only if I can find it. I have 40 rem 32-40 cases and 40 Canadian CIL cases so that if in the case of me aquiring a 32-40 rifle at lease I'm set for cases for awhile. Frank

[gandydancer]

I have 12 20 round boxes of new winchester 32/40 Brass I've had for over 30 years also a hundred more in a plastic bag. guess i should look for a 32/40 rifle. :bigsmyl2:

I have a 32-40 rifle to use. I will be using new winchester Brass that's 30 years old. annealing this new/old brass a good idea or no? thanks for any information. Tom/gd

[rr2241tx]

Gandy, I feel your pain. I have 19 rounds of 30-40 Krag and 47 rounds of 22 Mag that were given to me four or five years ago and I still don't have a rifle in either caliber. For that matter, there's 6 empty 32 WS cases I picked up at the range and haven't managed to find a rifle for as well. If all this stuff was Beany Babies instead of reloading gear my wife would think I'm a hoarder.

[bwgdog]

Name of company making 32/40 is Load X in N. CA . hope this helps .

[rr2241tx]

Thought I'd pad my post count by letting you know how this all worked out. First, the cases I made in May didn't get used in July as planned. Long story, I shot that match with another rifle after wasting a lot of time experimenting with the new mold and several alloy mixes. I finally did find an alloy that made uniform bullets and performed well as fixed ammo during testing and made a pile of them.

A couple of days prior to the October match, I greased the new bullets for the match and loaded up what I judged to be enough for sighters and record shots. That night, a fellow competitor commented that he was going to be close on having enough bullets to shoot the second day's 100 shot match. Hmm! Didn't see that on the announcement. So, I dug through the stash and located a box of 100 of the tapered bullets I had shot previously. Those were re-greased and hastily loaded up. All of which meant I had enough ammo but it was in two lots and needed to be shot in a specific order in order to have sighters for the 100 shot match and one round for the King Target. I wrote it all down and then promptly forgot to read the note while on the bench at the match.

The new alloy/bullet shot pretty well but engraving more than a few at a time with my thumb proved to be a painful and ultimately fruitless endeavor. Lacking a cartridge seater, I pressed a small Grace screwdriver into service and managed to get them all seated for the first day's matches. In order to shoot the 100 shot match the second day, I needed to shoot at least two targets with the harder new bullet, switch to the sighter target and re-zero with the old, softer and heavier bullet then shoot the last eight targets with those rounds. This would leave me a few extra cartridges of that series to shoot the King Target. That plan went out the window. Conditions were very different the second day and I used all the sighters just getting on paper. About midway across target nine, I realized I had no cartridge to shoot the King Target with once I shot target ten. By that time I was getting pretty well satisfied with just keeping all the hits on paper so I pulled the best looking cartridge I had left and put it aside, leaving me one shot short.

A brainstorm turned out to be just a mental disturbance and I decided that I could bum components to make the required 100th shot. A greased bullet of unknown age, weight and lube content was borrowed, a loose primer of unknown origin was scrounged, another competitor charged my case with powder from a measure labelled as 13.1 gr #9 which while safe, was quite different from the load I was zeroed with. The bummed bullet was barely started into the case and the whole conglomeration rammed home with the screwdriver handle as all the guilty parties looked on in anticipation as I fired the final mutt round. It hit the target posted 1 row up and 1 column left of target 10! Worse, it just nicked the paper, which cost me a shot that would have scored 25 on that target and left me short on target 10 resulting in the loss of another potential 25 points.

Later on in the afternoon when the King Target was being shot, I pulled out my hoarded cartridge and did my best to hold steady on the target after a long day and nearly 140 shots already fired that day. The 20X scope barely had enough field of view to keep the target in the field of view. I missed the target so badly that the backer was unmarked! Luckily, the berm is high or I might have hit myself in the back of the head.

Conclusions: While 214 cartridges is plenty for a 100 shot match, it isn't enough for a 201 shot match. Hard bullets need to be seated OFF the lands, engraving them by pushing the cases in by hand is hard on thumbs. If you're short of ammo, just be short. It costs fewer points to be one hit shy than to have extra hits on a target you have already shot and still be short on the last target. A bad day at the range is better than a good day at the office!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Reverend Al]

I've mentioned this on other similar posts, but will repeat it again here. I have several .32-40 rifles and for years have fire-formed and used short .30-30 brass in them with very good results. Still bothers me to not have full, chamber length brass though so I finally broke down and bought a "Kal Max Case Stretcher" from Red River Rick out in Winnipeg, Manitoba. It's a jig with an extruding die which is used in conjunction with a 10 ton (in my case) porta-powder cylinder to stretch short cases in up to 3 draws to much longer lengths. Since I have a LOT of .30-30 brass and .32-40 and .38-55 rifles I felt the cost of purchase was justified. I also bought his accessory dies to extrude and lengthen .45-70 cases for my .40-82 WCF and .303 British cases for my .35 WCF 1895 rifle. The other advantage is that the cases can be stretched longer than the individual rifle's chamber and then trimmed back to exact chamber length (for best target shooting results in quality rifles). In the end it cost me about the same as buying another medium price range rifle to add to my already large collection of guns so I felt the cost was justified in my case. Unfortunately, since I have a LONG list of ongoing projects I haven't really played around with it too much yet, but plan to stretch a lot of short cases to suitable longer lengths ...

http://kal.castpics.net/CaseStretcher.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGzQsrPT4Qs

[RGRWJB]

I would love to find some 32/40 cases.

[turtlezx]

ive had far better luck forming 32 40 s from 30 30 than 38 55 who cares if there short your not filling them to the max on powder anyways
iam i missing something here? is it too easy

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I have two 32-40 rifles and to supply ammo for them I simply run 32 Special brass thru my cowboy action sizing die. It only takes one pass and since it is already 32 caliber there is no need to expand the neck. I bought a gun collection a few years ago and with it I got several boxes of new 32 Special ammo. I pulled the bullets and used the brass. Works great.

[salpal48]

Starline does make 32/40 brass but by Contract only . One as above Load X the the other is Track of the Wolf. under contract agreement

[cwlongshot]

I found a bag of about fifty primed cases last night rumaging thru my stash looking for misplaced 444 Brass! I had a bad of 100New 32/40 somewhere! Always wanted to build a single shot on a low wall in 32/40.
Probably never will. ;)

CW

[toot]

if you use 30/30 brass to form 32/40 what is entailed? is it the same for 32/W,SPL.? and is 32,W,SPL. short also?

[uscra112]

I've been wondering when somebody would come up with a tool like this.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

if you use 30/30 brass to form 32/40 what is entailed? is it the same for 32/W,SPL.? and is 32,W,SPL. short also?

Yes but your rifle will not know the difference. If you use 32SPL brass, at least the brass will have a 32 stamped on the bottom.

[toot]

GOPHER SLAYER, thanks for the information.

[15meter]

Yes but your rifle will not know the difference. If you use 32SPL brass, at least the brass will have a 32 stamped on the bottom.

Alert! Alert! Thread drift!

GOPHER SLAYER, do you do it like a crazy old guy around here killed gophers (ground moles)?

He would sit in a lawn chair in his front yard with a Ruger #1 in one of his Boomer calibers and waited for the dirt to move on the mole run he had tramped down, then shot in the ground at the movement. Claimed you didn't have to hit them, it was kinda like horseshoes, close was good enough. He then dug up the slug and reloaded it. Solids don't expand much.

He had #1's in virtually every caliber Ruger made and a couple of customs.

Got mad at the 416 Rigby, had to have a buddy with a metal detector come over to find the slugs, they went way deeper than anything else.

Scared the @#$& out of the people driving by. Cops couldn't stop him, he said he was target shooting and was on his own place property.

Some people just have a different reality.

And I like it!

[toot]

i have been getting 32 WINCHESTER SPL. and 30/30 WINCHESTER brass from AMMO BRASS TRADER, and have great success with just lubing them and running then through the 32/40 dies.! my WINCHESTER HIGH WALL doesn't know the difference?

[xbeeman412]

here is a link to S&S 32-40 brass for sale

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?18-Swappin-amp-Sellin

[bob208]

I have been forming mine out of .30-30 for years. loading with b-p and wining matches with both my 94 and Stevens 44.
after looking at the brass not being made .32-40 .38-55 .25-35. I would not reform .32 special. I think that will be the next one to drop off the list.

[Chev. William]

Side Comment:
.32 Colt (the smaller diameter .32 Cases) are Very Hard to get now in Southern California, thanks to bans on Mail Order ammo purchases and its "Low Demand" according to my Local Gun Shop.

At least I can still reform S&W .32 cases into usable Colt cases.
And .327 Fed Mag into .32 Extra Long replacements.

Chev. William

[tankgunner59]

I would like to thank you gentlemen for discussing these older calibers and cartridges here on the forum. I never found any of these guns locally and now on limited income can't afford them. When I see them here I look them up and read the history of them and enjoy them through this forum. Thanks again.

[beshears]

Graf and Sons has 32-40 WW in stock.

[uscra112]

Winchester has made a run. Get it while it's available; it probably won't be for long. I got 100 from Duck Creek last month.

[74Monster]

Some trickled up to Canada, bought 100 but they were really proud of it. $75 per 50 cases

[Warhawk]

I’ve got an old (1897) Winchester 94 in 32-40. I also have several hundred pieces of 30-30 brass. I bought a set of RCBS Cowboy dies and some cast bullets. Loaded up a batch of trail boss loads only to find out that they won’t feed through my gun. The mouth of the 30-30 case catches on the edge of the chamber, every time. The Cowboy dies won’t adjust enough to apply any crimp to the formed 30-30 cases.

HSM apparently still loads 32-40, but I can’t find any in stock. The loaded HSM ammo is cheaper per round than buying 32-40 empty cases from Midway.

[15meter]

Check on Lee collet crimp dies, if it's not a standard size Lee should be able to make one for a reasonable price.

More crimp will probably allow the 30-30 converted cases to feed properly.

[beshears]

32-40 brass on Gunbroker with correct headstamp

[smkummer]

Starline recently introduced 32 French long ( 30 Petersen). One would think they would find a bigger market with 32-40. I don’t have a 32-40 but I have been picking up cases here and there.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Starline is listing 32 Special brass, might go easier than 38-55. Should be a 'simple' resize, though I would go very slowly with maybe a couple different adjustments into the 32-40 sizer, maybe start with the 32-40 seater.

[Warhawk]

32-40 brass on Gunbroker with correct headstamp

I bought 100 of these, just showed up today.

[toot]

they look good from my house!

[leadeye]

I've had good luck over the years with converting 30-30 to 32-40.

[turtlezx]

me to and lee dies 1 step sizing

[rjmelehan]

I've had good luck over the years with converting 30-30 to 32-40.

So tell me please if you happen to see this reply to an old thread,
what is the length after resizing the 30-30 to 32-40..?

Thanks

Bob in Saint Augustine..

[pworley1]

I have had a 32 40 for years and it has never had anything except cast shot through it in the years that I have had it. I have never had a factory 32 40 case, I have only used 30 30 brass annealed and run through the 32 40 die. Load and enjoy.

[rjmelehan]

Thanks to those that have posted and have also affirmed their experience with using 30-30 brass
resized to use in their 32-40's

Because I am shooting "Soft" cast bullets I was wondering if after you resized
did you end up with a case that is at least 2.125" long...?

If shorter than that, the lead obturate's and fills the gap between the top of the case and the top of the chamber. = Bad for accuracy... leading, lead ring etc.

Thanks in advance to responder's

Bob in Saint Augustine



I have had a 32 40 for years and it has never had anything except cast shot through it in the years that I have had it. I have never had a factory 32 40 case, I have only used 30 30 brass annealed and run through the 32 40 die. Load and enjoy.

[turtlezx]

no
checked fired cases
38 55= 2.065
30 30= 2.045
but i think i trimmed them . most likely longer when 1st formed
but are not gonna see the 2.125
my idea was to seat boolit long to get near same oal length ( if it matters)

[rjmelehan]

no
checked fired cases
38 55= 2.065
30 30= 2.045
but i think i trimmed them . most likely longer when 1st formed
but are not gonna see the 2.125
my idea was to seat boolit long to get near same oal length ( if it matters)

Turtle,

Thanks for taking the time to measure and of course your observation.

Bob

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello rjmeiehan,

I've formed 32-40 from 30-30.
First I ran them through a 32 Special sizer,
then I ran through a 32-40 sizer.
Because I use the RCBS 32-170 cast,
I trim to 2.045" and crimp in the groove.
Here are two of my formed cases with a John Wayne 32-40.

AntiqueSledMan.

[rjmelehan]

AntiqueMan,

Thank you for your reforming technique and recommendation.
You mentioned you trim to 2.045", in your process, do you recall, does your brass ever get to the prescribed published length of 2.130" prior to trimming...

Thanks in advance

bob in st. augustine


Hello rjmeiehan,

I've formed 32-40 from 30-30.
First I ran them through a 32 Special sizer,
then I ran through a 32-40 sizer.
Because I use the RCBS 32-170 cast,
I trim to 2.045" and crimp in the groove.
Here are two of my formed cases with a John Wayne 32-40.

AntiqueSledMan.

[turtlezx]

do mine in 1 step wright to the 32 40 die

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello rjmeiehan,

They don't make full length after forming.
But I can't remember how short they are.

Hello turtlezx,

The reason I used the 32 Special die is because my 32-40 dies are Lee Dies,
the expander will pull out of the die after expanding the neck.
But if I size them with a 32 Special (RCBS) first, I don't have any issues.

AntiqueSledMan.

[turtlezx]

my dies are lee also maybe i use more lube or tighten nut down tighter

[rjmelehan]

Thank you both..!

Bob


my dies are lee also maybe i use more lube or tighten nut down tighter

[wwmartin]

38-55-2.08 star-line will stretch to around 2.115. I used them before I bought WW 32-40 brass . At the time (April 2012) Black Hills Shooters supply had them in stock at $274~500. Not that much more than the WW 38-55 ($240~500) and no work. Sadly Winchester hasn't seen fit to run another batch of the odd stuff.
Bill

[DonHowe]

One does what one must however the way to get correct length .32-40 cases is to start with Starline 2.125" .38-55 brass.

[rjmelehan]

Don, and others

Thanks,

RCBS sells a specialty reforming "CSDS 2 Die set" designed to reform 38-55 to 32-40

Is this unnecessary if one already has a 32-40 die set.?
After reading numerous posts I noticed that some were having issues with either folded or damaged cases.

Does this sound like a marketing ploy or useful die set...?

TIA

Bob