load manuals

[runfiverun]

as i go round the net and look at what is being discussed
the no.-1 question i see is
i need a load for my whatsinbanger, or the one that really kills me is
i need a load for my 243.
okay....... if you got a wild-cat or want to compare notes on a 7x57 ackley
i can see it.
but a 243 come on.

DOES ANY BODY BUY A MANUAL OR TRY ANY LOADS ANYMORE.???

[docone31]

I don't think it is that no one has a manual. I believe everyone who even takes time to write and ask for "pet" loads is just staying involved in their interest.
Personally, I ask. Even if I know the answer. Sometimes another answer gives me more depth and expands my total experience.
I am getting gung-ho on paper patching. Getting supplies, making a designated space, mentally preparing myself for what is probably much more simplistic than I can imagine.
There is something about gunnery. That fresh good morning aroma of opening a jug of smokeless for the first time. Something exciting about making the first bullet. Then the first reload chambered and fired. Wow, it actually did what it was supposed to do! The excitement, the fullfilment, the creative mental juices wondering what else can be done.
I got a friend who trickles EVERY single load! He shoots Palma and probably has the lowest score ever recorded. I outshot him with some MilSurp M2 ammo in an old 03-A3. He has a Krieger barrel, Norma everything, Lapua powders, precise everything.
I believe all those questions are really people trying to learn more.

[Boomer Mikey]

It's the information age... I work at a community college and young people nowadays "network" everything; they study together, work on projects together, and use the Internet for instant access to research material they consider factual because it's on the Internet.

Computers make us lazy too... it's much easier to post a new thread with a question than search the threads for the same to find the same answers in 30 threads or in 30 threads on a dozen different websites.

It's too hard to look at the manuals in an attempt to figure out which combinations may meet with success but with the considerable volume of information on the Internet including great resources like this site, one can get a general idea of what boolits, powders and loading procedures will work in that 243 best for the application.

I personally appreciate the reports about various boolits and powder combinations that work well together. The articles writen by Paco Kelly, Glen Fryxell, John Goins, Ken Watters, Marshall Stanton, and many others that; when combined, put forth a pretty good Idea of what will work for your intended purposes from mild to wild in a particular application. It's also a pretty good bet that if 10 or more reports come back that X boolit with a charge range of Y powder works to produce accurate loads at Z velocity in the same application; a considerable amount of effort can be saved compared to testing all the combinations in the manuals to find similar results.

For me, manuals are a valuable reference to authenticate that loads are within reason and to evaluate their suitability for my intended purpose. What concerns me is how many shooters apparently don't have or won't read them.

Boomer :Fire:

[1Shirt]

For me, there is no such thing as reading to much or knowing to much or compairing to much. Even collecting old manuals for comparison is fun to me. There are wealths of knowledge on line, in manuals and by comparisons. All of my rifles are female and require adjustment to achieve what loads will shoot best. Reloading in my grayhair years (make that whitehair), is kind of like dating in my teenage years. Lots of trial and error until you come up with what works for you and than if you are smart, you stay with it. Have 3ea. 243's, and all of them have different personalities and want to be fed differently. If everything in the gun rack shot min of angle 10 shot groups with every load tried, there would be little challange and we would probably get tired of shooting. It is the unexplained 5th shot flier that takes that 4 shot .375" group out to 2" that keeps us (or at least me) at it, frustrates us, and if we are smart keeps us humble. Also gives us bragging rights when everything does work right. The words of wisdom of the old long gone writers, those on line today and on this web, and those who write and put together the manuals are to be appreciated. Soooo, my bottom lines are, "to each his own", "what ever works", and "don't fix what isn't broke"!
1Shirt!:coffee:

[jlb300]

:coffee:I think for comparison ............ I will ask someone for their favorite load. Not necessarily to use as the only load I ever try. I like to vary the load from what the book or manuals say. You can get different results from gun to gun with the same recipe(stay within the max-min window ). I like to see if I can reproduce the favorite of others and maybe it will be one for me too.
I do hope that those who ask for load info are not strictly going by the posts that some give?
Please get a manual and read it, there is no such thing as too much info ......of corse unless it is info about your mother-in-liw.................[smilie=1:

[Down South]

I’m also curious about why folks ask about common calibers with common bullet weights & styles with common powders. I always use my manuals for this which I have a shelf full of. There is usually a generous amount of published data for this without asking on line for it. There is a good chance that someone else’s pet load is not going to perform the same in your gun. A pet load comes by doing your homework. Deciding on powder type, charge weight, bullet weight and bullet style involves a lot of bench and range time.
On the other hand, sometimes there is no published data for some loads with some of the newer powders. I’m having a problem with one now and I turned to the forums to try to find some answers.
The problem that I am having is finding load data for a 357 magnum using Winchester WSF powder. Neither Hodgdon nor anyone else published data for this cartridge using WSF. Hodgdon does publish data for the 38 Spl using WSF but that’s it. The good thing is that I can use the 38 Spl data for a starting point.
I am in contact with others that are working on a load for the 357 using WSF. For the time being I’ll have to work up slow, use my coronagraph and watch for common signs of high pressure.

[Scrounger]

I have said the same thing here and been called 'crabby' for it. I don't like dealing with those who are too lazy to look up their own answers and go through the learning process we went through to get where we are. (Wherever the H=== that is.)

[blackthorn]

And then there is the saftey issue....If you are asking questions to see what others use and then checking any information against published information, fine, BUT my concern is that a novice will load up somebodies super dooper screaming high-end load in his/her brand new cut to SAMMI minimum rifle and blow it (and him/her) all to h@#l. On ocasion I have been asked to load for someone elses rifle, with the request to "just load to the book max". At that point we used to have an educational conversation that wound up with an offer to let him/her use my equipment to make thier own bomb! Nowadays I just cut out the chaffe and go straight to "why dont you drop over and i'll let you use my stuff".

[leftiye]

A corolary to Scrounger's comment- One should be leery of having too much of their load be someone elses opinion. Not just because it is potentially dangerous for a number of reasons, but because it may be taking the place that possessing understanding should occupy. Sorry, thinking and possessing knowledge are both required,

"I don't like dealing with those who are too lazy to look up their own answers and go through the learning process we went through to get where we are." Scrounger

[runfiverun]

i thought scrounger would have taken the opportunity to
be himself here and give us at least a paragraph.
i like what he said before about this being high school , some knowledge should be gained
the old way, bend a decapper rod, stick a case, burn your fingers type stuff.

there are so many new people getting into loading and casting that i am prettty
reluctant to give a specific load out
and most of the time i go pull a few books off the shelf before i do
would be faster to pull my note-book. but they are my notes for my stuff.
and the computer is not in the reloading room.

[AZ-Stew]

I will give out the load I use in my .41 Magnum beacuse it is a very low pressure load and quite safe. I will not give out the load I used in a .22-250 I used to own. It was exceptionally accurate in that rifle. I used H-380 powder and a STANDARD primer. Because so many people use Magnum primers with that powder I won't list the powder charge. It was above book, where the book loads used Magnum primers. With the Standard primer it was within pressure specs.

The ones that get me are those posts requesting info that should have been learned in Handloading 101. That's the part where you read the text sections of the handloading manual and learn about primers, powders, bullets, pressure, adjusting dies, etc. I, like Scrounger, was held in contempt for telling someone to go buy a manual and read it when he asked a simple primer question that he should have gotten the answer for from his handloading manual.

Personally, I don't think one manual is enough. A beginner should buy at least three and read them before unpacking his press and dies. But I'm just a crabby old goat.

Regards,

Stew

[DLCTEX]

The manual should be a late edition, I have noticed that charges have come way down for a lot of loads as chronograph and pressure testing equipment has gotten more available. For instance, 7mm mag. H4831 in my old Lyman manual is way over current load maximums. DALE

[carpetman]

dale clawson-----I have a 1967 Lyman and the newer one and for .243 with 95 grain cast,the new starting point load is actually higher than the old maximum with one powder.

[river-rider]

I try to get every old load manual I can find. I really want to find a load in a published load manual before I try someone's pet load. Most sources ask you
to reduce the load by a % (usually 10 %) but how many people follow this advice?
I had a friend who gave a man a load for a 44Mag. Later the man brought in his
gun with the top half of the cylinder missing. My friend asked to see some of his
loads and he had trimed some of the cases util they looke like 45 ACP's. The man
told my friend when a case split he just trimed it down past the split. He was reloading but did not have a clue on safe reloading. I hate to think what advice he may have given other people. Read every thing you can on reloading and then think.

[tomf52]

Sometimes there is just not a lot of good info about a particular load or caliber. Unless I have been loking in all the wrong places, I have trouble finding info about the .32 H&R Mag in the books. Asking on these forums has been much more productive.

[Down South]

I have several old manuals. The oldest is a Speer No. 7, copyright 1966. I also have the Speer No. 9 & No. 12. I’m always surprised in the difference in charge weights over the years. I do have a few other name brand manuals that are newer.
When I’m working out a new load, I always consult every manual that I have then establish a starting load. In no way would I ever just ask someone for load data and take it for gospel.

[monadnock#5]

I think that a lot of new reloaders go out and buy a manual or two, and then buy maybe three rifle powders and two pistol powders thinking that with those powders they can load for anything in the gun safe. Many of the questions on load data I see relate to how to use IMR4064, Unique, Trailboss etc. in their loudenboomer.

The better question would "who knows of a manual that gives data on the powder in the caliber I want to load?"

[leftiye]

Sometimes there is just not a lot of good info about a particular load or caliber. Unless I have been loking in all the wrong places, I have trouble finding info about the .32 H&R Mag in the books. Asking on these forums has been much more productive. Tom F.
__________________
Despite my earlier post, I have been forced to do this several times. And, I've got to admit that in those cases I welcomed other people's experience with the given caliber. It goes beyond the manuals. I also bought manuals at that time that had loads for the caliber in question.

[qajaq59]

Something people that ask for loads should keep in mind is how badly many of us type. One little typo could take out a very expensive rifle or hand gun. To say nothing of eyes, hands, etc. Manuals are just so much safer.

[river-rider]

Have you ever noticed that as a old reloader you have twenty different powders,25 sets of dies,3 different brands of bullets in a given caliber that the GREAT load in the current gun magazine uses something you do not have. You rush down to your favorite gun store, and susprise they don't that component either. After you work on your reload you discover that in most cases close works.:Fire:

[7 MM]

I likr the emblem.
I have one too.
when did you retire.

7 MM