Lube sizing problems!

[Jim K.]

OK I am pretty green at casting and seem to have run into a problem! I cast about 1000 of the Big Lube Dutchman bullets for my 44-40's about 4 months ago. Finally got around to trying to lube size them to .430 on my Star sizer. First bullet in I smeared a little lube on and pushed it into the sizing die, it seemed to get real tight the end of the stroke but I went ahead and put another bullet in and pushed it to the first bullet and now have two bullets stuck in the die. Used a punch to gently tap the die out of the star. Have not removed the bullets from the die yet but am concerned about the bullets I am trying to size. Measured about 50 of the bullets and they measured from .433 to .437, most around .4345-.435. Are these to large to size to .430 in one step? What would be my next step, besides removing the bullets from the die.

Jim K.

[MT Chambers]

Unless they are dead soft, I would not try to size those down so much on the Star, why are they so large? Get mold/s that drop closer to .431". Even if you did force them through the Star or any other sizer, you will collapse the bands into the grooves of the bullet. My .44/40 uses .428" boolits.

[runfiverun]

mine does good with 430.
I have sized down 1 or 2 45 colt boolits in my 430 sizer on accident before, but they went through.
the base was mashed up around the push rod and I didn't shoot them.

just put your die in the vice and tap the boolits through with a flat punch.
I'd run them through a 433 die first and lube them then run them through the 430 die.
I'd also see if I could run them a bit bigger than the 430 to try and cut down on the amount of sizing.

[Jim K.]

I did tap them out and they were .430 ... I slugged the bores, one pistol is .428 the other one is .430. the rifle slugged at .430. I was wondering about getting a Lee sizer die to go into my Rock Chucker. Thinking (and that could be dangerous) to size to .433 with that and then to .430 in the Star. The diameter inside the groves on the pistols both measure .417 and the rifle is .424.

But the bullets I pushed out of the die have the crimp grove almost wiped out.... so maybe need to do something with the mold! Think I will send Big lube a note and see what he says.
Jim K.

[runfiverun]

if you put lube in the groove before sizing it down you'll keep the shape.

[fryboy]

That's the best way I know to keep the grooves when sizing down that much,i've had to pan lube to do that in some instances
Makes me curious about your alloy ...the big groove molds were designed to hold a lot of lube - for use with black powder mostly if you're using a alloy with a bit of tin or antimony they'll cast bigger and consequently need more sizing than one of pure or pure with a spot of tin ( aka most BP type normal alloys )
Also controlling the melt and mold temp more closely would result in more uniform castings

[Jim K.]

I talked to Dick and he gave me a few hints. My alloy is wheel weights with 2 lbs of pure lead added to every 10 lbs of wheel weights and yes these will be loaded with American Pioneer Powder. Have 27 lbs to remelt and try again. Going to add a little more pure lead as they still seem hard for what I'm doing (Cowboy Action).
As for the melt temp I bring it to about 725-750 and do not add anything till the pot is about half, then add sprues and rejects then more alloy and wait for temp to come up again.

[454PB]

I use a Lee (or one of my home made) push-through sizing die first when I run into this situation. Much cheaper than replacing broken parts on my Star.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Are you water dropping the boolits ?

[Jim K.]

Not water dropping...dump them on a damp towel

[fryboy]

to be fair I don't shoot cowboy action ( just to put that out there ) I do however shoot a 44-40 ( lots of fun ! ) some more lead would help , i've ran as low as 4 parts pure to 1 part ww's with good luck ( awesome in the 45 acp as well as the 38 special btw ) meh, some of us mix pure to stretch ww's out while other's add more ww's to stretch pure out lolz , usually they all can work well if properly sized and launched at a velocity decent for the alloy
after you re-adjust your alloy try working on your cadence ( tempo ) to keep it uniform , that will help keep your castings closer to the same size ( eg; no sudden "why'd that one size so hard " etc ) dont even keep the first few when you start casting again after a break until the mold's back up to the cadence temp

[243winxb]

Cast at a high temperture to get more shrinkage. Bullets should have a frosted appearance.. Lyman's FAQ- don't size down more then .003" for accuracy. Adding pure lead will make diameter smaller, but not a lot.

[Wayne Smith]

Check your mold. I'll bet you have something holding it open - piece of lead most likely. Had the same problem with a couple of molds in my time casting - and big boolits was always something in the mold or me holding it slightly open on the Lee six cavity - holding it with a glove pushed the sprue handle which opened the mold a touch.