Question about steel cases vs. brass (off subject I know)

[wallacem]

Guys I need advise from this group of knowledgable guys. I was thinking about storing up a few thousand 45acp rounds, (just in case), and was thinking about getting the cheapest thing which is steel case Wolf. A friend told me not to buy that because the steel cases will wear the ejector out on my gun. Is this true? Wallacem in Ga

[Don Fischer]

I'm not sure anything could convince me steel is a good case to reload. Never tried them and never will. it would seem to me that they would be much harder on dies than gilding metal. And I wonder about crimping them. Case's would not stand up to re-sizing as would gilding metal I would think. If there was some place I'd say don't try to save much money, it's on case's! I recently bought 100 piece fired 9mm case's. I forget the cost right now but it wasn't much. How many time's can a straight wall handgun case be reloaded? I haven a clue but to say a lot is an understatement.

[M-Tecs]

When I first stated shooting bullseye I was given 5K of primed steel cases. Shot them out of one 1911. Never noticed any ill effects on the extractor or ejector. It has many times that amount of standard brass cases since and no ill effects.

[spfd1903]

wallacem,
You did not say you were intending to reload the steel cases, but shooting them should not be a problem. In the last few years of WW2, the Government produced a lot of steel cased .45 auto. I have shot 9 mm and .30 Carbine steel rounds by the hundreds several years ago, never caused any issues.

[bangerjim]

YOu can't beat good old brass!

I never use steel as they are hard on the dies.

I leave that Russian Tulammo carp laying at the range......many hundreds of them.....and never bring any home. Same with aluminum.

Brass all the way, baby!

[376Steyr]

On the subject of "just in case" ammo, have you thought about buying some once-fired brass and rolling your own with either homemade or commercial cast bullets? You could then have a superior product for less cost than the imported steel stuff.

[EMC45]

Wallace,
I have loaded 100s of steel cases by Wolf and Tula. The carbide ring in your resizing die is harder than the mild steel cases you will be reloading. Brass is better, but often times the boxer primed steel cases can be picked up when others have left them behind...... Evan

[2wheelDuke]

I have a little bit of Wolf/Tula put away still. As far as cheap ammo to pack away "just in case" I don't think it's bad. Sure it could wear on your extractor after a while, but that may be the least of your worries if push came to shove.

I don't like to feed my guns a steady diet of the steel cased stuff. It's not even the case that I'm worried about as much as the bullet. The jackets are steel as well, just washed in copper so that they look like regular jackets.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n73/2wheelduke/Guns/IMG_20130402_115034_733_zps92981e35.jpg

That's a .45acp Tula hanging from a fridge magnet.

When I shoot Tulas, I swear I can see a spark traveling downrange that I don't see with a copper jacketed bullet or lead bullet in the same lighting conditions.

[runfiverun]

the cheapest thing would be to buy some once fired cases and reload them.
I doubt your gonna buy tulammo/wolf/whatever for 5.00 a hundred.
you could buy 1,000 brand new starline cases for about 200.00 actually more like 165.00 delivered.
https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/45-Auto-Brass/
30.00 for the primers, 25.00 for the powder, and the boolits you make yourself from 35 lbs of lead.
even buying the lead at a buck a pound and your in it 250 bucks for 1-k rounds.
cheaper if you buy once fired cases.

[Four-Sixty]

An indoor range I shot at would not permit the Wolf ammo because the bullets were steel. Just something else to consider.

[mdi]

I doubt if steel cased ammo would wear out a gun much faster than brass. The steel used for cases is dead soft, not a lot harder that brass. Same with dies, the steel cases are much softer than steel dies. For "just in case" ammo, go ahead and stock up.

A lot of threads go off on "bunny trails" and the main idea of the original post is often lost. OP never mentioned reloading anything (I've reloaded 45 ACP steel cases, but the draw back isn't wear and tear on the guns or equipment, it is the extremely short case life.). If steel wears out guns and loading equipment would so many manufacturers and countries military use so much? If steel wore out guns/loading equipment it would prolly take more than the average shooter's lifetime...

[Beef15]

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/
Little reading. Rifle cartridges but should be fairly applicable. Have heard reports of accelerated extractor wear/damage in 1911s, but they are a wear item anyway, wise man will have a tuned spare in the bag.

[2wheelDuke]

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/
Little reading. Rifle cartridges but should be fairly applicable. Have heard reports of accelerated extractor wear/damage in 1911s, but they are a wear item anyway, wise man will have a tuned spare in the bag.

That was a great test, but they left out the bore, which I think could be a huge deal.

[Outpost75]

The WW2 steel cased ammo was intended for use in the Thompson and M3 SMGs and the M1917 revolver.

Limited use in 1911 pistols does no harm, and steel cases reload OK using carbide sizer dies, but you will only get 2-3 reloads out of it until it splits. I use it to load for a friend's M1A1, which runs it fine, and a pair of cow magnets make for easy range cleanup.

[DerekP Houston]

YOu can't beat good old brass!

I never use steel as they are hard on the dies.

I leave that Russian Tulammo carp laying at the range......many hundreds of them.....and never bring any home. Same with aluminum.

Brass all the way, baby!

I use tulammo/animal brands for friends that don't shoot often ;). They don't notice the difference and I don't have to chase the brass down.

[warf73]

When I shoot Tulas, I swear I can see a spark traveling downrange that I don't see with a copper jacketed bullet or lead bullet in the same lighting conditions.

Girlfriend and I noticed the same thing when she was shooting Wolf ammo in her 380acp. Looked like a sparkler when she fired the little P238, she shot up the box there's still 3 boxes of the stuff setting on the shelf.

[Bullwolf]

I've reloaded a fair amount of the soft steel WWII 45 ACP cases. I never noticed any extra wear from shooting steel cases on any parts of my 1911's. Much of it was corrosive, so cleaning the empty cases as well as the gun soon after firing was crucial.

I haven't personally reloaded much of the Wolf steel case stuff for myself. I have heard the wolf steel case ammo has a lacquer coating to retard corrosion but can not confirm or deny it.

I will say under the right conditions that steel cases will easily rust, especially if you leave it on the ground outside in the weather for any length of time. I have learned to put a cap full of automotive wax in the tumbler with the steel, it seemed to help retard corrosion with steel cases.

If I was going to do load a bunch intentionally, I would just load brass cases simply for the extra corrosion resistance.

Can it be done? Sure.

Will it hurt anything? Maybe, although I've seen no extra wear and tear on my dies using case lube, and at work if a steel case slipped through sorting we just reloaded it as well.

Should you do it, or should it even be done... Well that decision is up to you.


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=67531&d=1366008637



- Bullwolf

[wallacem]

Guys, I just got back to here and read all above, and was misunderstood. I do not plan to reload those steel cases, was thinking about buying about 3 thousand factory loaded ammo, maybe wolf or Tula, because they are cheap. Will not be reloading them. they will just sit on the shelf along with the 4 thousand other 45 acps I already have, part new and part reloads. they will stay there and be there, "just in case". I already have about 2 thousand once fired brass, sitting in the drawer that I use. Was thinking about this because 45acp is the only caliber I don't have enough of "just in case".

[pakmc]

The steel cases are soft! I've reloaded and shot .45 ACP in steel cases and, using the same loads in steel,brass and nickle cases there is no difference in accuracy. I also reload steel in 7.62x39. I think the steel is softer than the brass the US companys use. I have berdan primers and the steel cases are good for about 3-4 reloading then the anvil in the case wears down.(that's pretty soft) I can tell when a steel case has been fired in a AK/SKS or AR platform. the steel case rim will tuck under the rim a little when (you would have to see it, it's hard to tell about)fired in an AK/SKS which means that the rim has to filed down a little(by hand). this doesn't happen in an AR platform.(I know, I have two 7.62x39 uppers and I prefer to reload my own cases, not range pickup). My take, the steel is softer than the brass and I have no problem with using it.("O", one of my 7.62x39 uppers is pushing 3,000 rounds and the other is only about 1,500 rounds. I have two spare bolts and haven't need either one yet!(for the extracters)

[GRUMPA]

In this case I would concern myself with storing them. I live in a rather dry climate, things seem to store rather nicely. Now I know we've all seen corroded ammo in our lives, me included. Steel anything and moisture just don't seem to get along, and I've seen ammo corrode even when stored in ammo cans.

Personally......for long term storage I would be going with brass cases, not steel.

[ioon44]

I don't shoot factory steel ammo because when reloading steel cases there are a lot of steel burrs inside of the mouth of the steel cases.
The burrs have to be removed to reload with cast bullets.

So I wonder how much of the steel burrs go down the barrel when shooting factory steel ammo.

I reload steel cases for shooting when I can't pick up my brass.

I agree with GURMPA that steel would not be good for long term storage.

[OS OK]

In the light of 'just in case' or 'shtf' they will be the best most valued currency you could 'horse trade' with.

I too have reloaded them just to see how it would go…one time was enough for me.

[GONRA]

GONRA picks up LCS WOLF .45 ACP range brass (as recorded elsewhere on his forum)
then reloads 'em Just Fine for 1928 Thompson SMG blasting.

[Shiloh]

I've loaded .45 acp still cases. I did it for the novelty and had no issues doing so. You have to look through. There are both boxer and burden primed cases.

SHiloh

[6622729]

In this case I would concern myself with storing them. I live in a rather dry climate, things seem to store rather nicely. Now I know we've all seen corroded ammo in our lives, me included. Steel anything and moisture just don't seem to get along, and I've seen ammo corrode even when stored in ammo cans.

Personally......for long term storage I would be going with brass cases, not steel.

I agree. I'd only buy brass cased ammo. How much cheaper can steel case possibly be that we're even having this conversation? If it really becomes a just in case situation I want the highest quality, most reliable stuff I can put in my hands, err, guns.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

I haven't bought factory ammo in 8-9 years, but I remember overhearing the clerk at the local gunshop telling customers that the Wolf brand 45 ammo was fine in Glocks and XDs but don't run it through your Colts or Kimbers. I have always thought that was just a gunshop rumor and never thought to much about it.

[JSnover]

On the subject of "just in case" ammo, have you thought about buying some once-fired brass and rolling your own with either homemade or commercial cast bullets? You could then have a superior product for less cost than the imported steel stuff.
That's the plan at my house.

[35remington]

Please pay attention to the following, as it was not mentioned previously, and it is the only real issue in extractor wear.

The material the case is made out of does not matter.

Rather, look at the width of the extractor groove on the case. If it looks like that on a .308 case, it is proper for the extractors on 45 ACP pistols. The 1911 is the type most affected. If it looks like the extractor groove on a 30-06 case, it does not have enough relief for a pistol extractor, 1911's in particular, and the case will cause undesirable issues. Other guns also will suffer depending upon the size of the extractor hook and the distance from the breechface.

Problems arise, particularly when the gun is fired. The improper extractor groove relief may slam into the nose of the extractor upon firing.

Apologizing for the poor picture quality, but this shows what I mean. The one on the right is not good, as 45 ACP ammo is supposed to have a larger extraction groove than this. Look at the groove for extractor wear, not the material.

169478

[big bore 99]

Seems to me, I would want the best possible stuff for storing for just in case.

[35remington]

Incidentally, the cases above were Winchester on the left, fairly new production. The one on the right is WW2 steel case, marked E C 43 and is unfired with purplished hued primer.

When using such a small extractor groove case, remove the 1911 slide/barrel assembly from the frame and slip a round under the extractor hook and chamber the case. Then open the breech with the round captured by the extractor hook, and try to push the head of the case against the breechface. You will find the front of the extractor groove will strike the front of the extractor hook before it gets there. If you push hard enough you can get the case to touch the breechface, but it has to flex the extractor out of the way to do so. When you fire the gun the front of the inadequate extractor groove relief slams against the extractor with a lot more force. The case head strikes the breechface come hell or high water and the extractor pays the price......eventually.

How could 1911's get away with this in wartime? Well, the extractor can take a fair amount of abuse, but the only 1911's that got shot much in wartime were range instruction guns that could be serviced. 1911 field pistols were shot very little, and battle did not absolutely prove the narrow extractor groove invalid....solely because they weren't used much to save soldier's hides, not because it was the greatest idea. Other 45 ACP arms used for battle may have dimensional differences that made such ill suited cases less important.

Properly tempered 1911 extractors should be springs and can stand up to this abuse somewhat longer. Many 1911 extractors today are not as "springy" as they should be and repeated abuse will cause them to lose proper tension and possibly break. Springy extractors can hold up to this somewhat longer and resist losing tension but breakage of the hook can still occur, and tension can suffer with enough punishment.

Don't shoot ammo the gun wasn't meant to shoot in large quantity. This would be small extractor groove cases. The 45 ACP has a large extractor groove in the case for a reason. Use those cases for volume shooting.