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Blackcat
05-21-2016, 03:33 PM
Many of you have probably heard about the .454 debate (small rifle primers vs small rifle mag primers) and (H110) powder. If you load H110 light and use the wrong primer it can fail to ignite the powder and cause all kinds of problems.

Anyway this was my issue... Last time I reloaded I had bulged brass and a number of rounds that completely failed to ignite.

At the time I was using H110 (forget the grains off hand)
cci small rifle primers.
300 grain lee cast with GC and a heavy crimp

I went by the load data in the manual for a 300grain XTP jacketed.

So I now have a small surplus of cci small rifle primers and H110.

I havent purchased any more because the cost of powder and = ridicules.

Recently I came into a little money and want to finally complete my reloading project but dont want to waste money on componants for (experimental) loads.

Here is what I have:

1000 rounds of brand new Starline .454 brass.
two pounds of H110
1000 cci small rifle primers
300 grain lee cast boolits
a few thousand gas checks

My goal is a good reliable, accurate bullet for my Taurus revolver.

Around 1600fps or higher without getting into pressures that will cause long term permanant damage to the firearm.

Something much like the Hornady 300grain XTP mag JHP at 1600fps but in my cast.

So heres my question/s:

I could use the H110 at max load and buy new primers.
That doesnt leave much room for error when it comes to grains/capacity and I would need a change in primers for it to be reliable.

Freedom Arms now recommends small rifle MAG primers.

Q: Will cci small rifle mag primers fit the primer pocket in Starline brass?

I could change powders to something like 2400. That would get me all the velocity and pressures i'm looking for. It "should" be more reliable with my current cci small rifle primers or winchester small rifle.

Q: Is that correct?

I dont find much load data for either of these using 300 grain cast.

Q: How do I adjust a jacketed recipe for a cast?

Q: Can I get away without GC on loads like this?

So it looks like I will either have to change primers too "MAG" or change powders.
I've read about other powder options such as lil gun but I would likely stick with 2400 if I had to make a change.

My final and most important question is before I go out and invest in new componants. Which of these options would be the best route to go with, change primer or change powder to 2400. Pros/cons?

44man
05-21-2016, 05:37 PM
How many times I have posted is crazy. NO STARTING LOADS WITH H110 or 296. ONLY MAX. The SR primer is wrong an any form.
If you want freedom, cut down .460 brass and use a LP mag primer.
EVEN EVERY SR MAG FAILED. it does NOT solve it. The primer is WRONG.
It is not a debate. My testing has proven it. To even consider a recommendation that might harm you or the gun does not exist here so if you choose other I will always say "I told you so."
Bulged brass is an SEE event and you are lucky the gun was not damaged.
Never, ever use starting loads with the two powders.
The SR primer was the worst thing ever done in the .454.

Blackcat
05-21-2016, 06:26 PM
I wouldnt load down H110.
As far as .460 brass... Would love too, but I have 1000 rounds of starline .454 and nothing else I can do with them.

How about reaming the primer pockets to take a different primer? I'm sure I read someplace last year that it can be done.

Actually now that I think about it... Primer pocket in .460 isnt as deep.

Why not 2400 with the starline and small rifle or small rifle mag?
I know "rifle is bad" with H110 but ive never heard of it neing an issue with powders like 2400.

I hate to say I know it all because I dont but i've long since lost track of the number of hours over the years ive been reading about this one topic and havent found anything new in a long time.

According to everyone it's all wrong and its all right.
So go to the manuals... Ok but then the manuals are apparently wrong.
So go to the manufacturers... Ok but the manufacturers are apparently wrong.

Perhaps I will blow of my hands idk...

Because apparently it's impossible to load .454.

On a side note... I sometimes get the feeling theres more too it than a primer/powder issue.

For every .454 load with H110 and primer of your choice you get jist as many people saying it doesnt work as there are people saying they ised that recipe for years with no issue.

I've been sitting here with a large collection of guns for a few years now collecting dust because the price of ammo in my country is stupid. I was looking at .308... Gone up almost $6.00 per box simce last year.

I have a pile of reloading componants that sit here because whatever I buy seems to be the wrong stuff, and I cant give it away in this economy.

Other than my motorcycle the only other thing in this world that really interests me is shooting. I started years ago with the goal of competitive shooting. Now I cant use the words here to describe how I feel about it.
Or rather how I feel about investing thousands into a collection of paperweights.

So I guess as it stands I will change to 2400 and either use my current cci small rifle primers (beacuse i'm stuck with the brass) or i'll switch too 2400 and cci small rifle mag primers.
Because i've never heard of an issue with a combination of those.

Just slow burning bulky H110. I'm sure I can find another use for the two pounds of that.

It really shouldnt be so complicated.

sw282
05-21-2016, 07:17 PM
I would sell the 454 brass on GB and use 45 Colt brass..Or do like 44man said, and cut 460 SW brass.. Using the 45 Colt loads for Ruger or TC will satisfy 99% Of the Trackers needs..Besides it will live longer...Small Rifle primers in 454 Casull brass was an answer for a question not asked

Tom W.
05-21-2016, 07:50 PM
When I had my 454 I used starline brass with the srp without any issues at all. I did use Lil' Gun powder in most of my loads, with a few H110 loads to see what would shoot better. As stressed before, NEVER use light loads with H110.

Blackcat
05-21-2016, 07:54 PM
Like make .45 colt loads? Good idea :) but that's ome for another time. It's actually a Raging Bull .454 so i'm trying to stock up on .454 rounds but .45 colt is useful too.

Blackcat
05-21-2016, 08:12 PM
When I had my 454 I used starline brass with the srp without any issues at all. I did use Lil' Gun powder in most of my loads, with a few H110 loads to see what would shoot better. As stressed before, NEVER use light loads with H110.

No light loads here. But this does describe my earlier point exactly. Why is it that some have constant issues with this combination and others have no issue at all?

I imagine it's in the technique... The grains, well some people do load H110 down and have issues but some load at max and still have issues while others do not...

Then theres the crimp... Some also claim this fixes the issue which makes some sense but many dont seem to be aware of the heavy crimp and how it's applied in this case.

Other than that... Whats going on, some sort of weird voodoo?
Because if we were to give the benefit of the doubt here that both gunny A and gunny B are experienced reloaders, both are following the same recipe with the same components, why is one having steady issues and the other has no issues.

Across many forums and hundreds of posts i've read on this the number of people in group A is very close to the number in group B.

Ok I just had another random thought. I used to fire a whole lot of Hornady XTP.
Their rounds are .454 brass and I would guess small rifle primers. I'm courious to know what primers and powder they use. Cant say i've come across that data yet.

If they are indeed using H110 and small rifle primers in their .454 then why are they not having issues? I find their XTP quite reliable.

In fact yes they must be using standard small rifle primers because I reloaded some of those a few years back (if I recall)

So if my goal is too achieve a round that is like their factory XTP 300 grain. And I follow their process... Why would it have issues.

Sorry i'm half talking to myself here because it doesnt make sense. It's like square pegs in round holes (or primer pockets lol)

Perhaps i'm just not coming across very clear or not recieving because it feels like something is being lost in translation.

DanWalker
05-21-2016, 08:38 PM
I used 20-22 grains of 2400 under the LEE boolit in an FA 83 with no ill effects. I was lighting it with regular small rifle primers with no issues. Velocity was in the 12-1300 fps range.

jaydub in wi
05-21-2016, 09:05 PM
I too have read all of the threads concerning h110 and small rifle primers. 44 man has posted a lot of good info on this topic. I was going to use a different powder than H110. I would try 2400, 4227 or maybe alliant powder pro 300mp. 300mp is recommended for use with a standard primer in large pistol, so a small rifle should be able to do it. There is data for it on alliant ' s Web site. When I get a chance, that is the route I will go.

Sent from my SCH-I545L using Tapatalk

Blackcat
05-21-2016, 09:31 PM
I too have read all of the threads concerning h110 and small rifle primers. 44 man has posted a lot of good info on this topic. I was going to use a different powder than H110. I would try 2400, 4227 or maybe alliant powder pro 300mp. 300mp is recommended for use with a standard primer in large pistol, so a small rifle should be able to do it. There is data for it on alliant ' s Web site. When I get a chance, that is the route I will go.

Sent from my SCH-I545L using Tapatalk

That's exactly what i'm thinking... But had not considered 4227 or 300mp I will look into those too thanks!
A lot of people swear that it cannot be done reliably with .454 brass and small rifle primers, but as you pointed out it can be done.

Also, after all the big manufacturers do it (small rifle, .454 brass) and it's very reliable. Perhaps not with H110 (not sure)

All I want to do is duplicate the Hornady factory .300 XTP .454 with the same reliability, using my cast .454, not re invent the wheel.

44man
05-21-2016, 10:08 PM
Yes, another powder. Is is ONLY starting book loads and up to near max that has been a problem with H110 and 296. Once you get very close to max, ignition is good.
The only explanation I have is he SR primer has enough force to move a boolit and increase airspace so flame does not ignite the powder. Too many times the boolit stuck in the bore with the full load of 296 packed behind it and hardly discolored at all. PUT MORE POWDER IN!
I did cut pockets for a LP primer in brass but can tell you is is VERY hard to keep even for fit. Some will be loose. Don't even try a lathe for it. However, even with a standard LP, all listed loads ignited but the LP mag is more accurate.
The simple answer with both powders and a SR primer is to just load to max or very close. I still carry the brass rod and hammer in my bag for guys that start at the bottom book loads and think they should be removed.
2400 or other can light the candle.
Remember, Dick used duplex and triplex loads with Bullseye next to the primer and thought the SR could take more pressure. He blew many guns but not because of primers, just over loads. The LP can take over 55,000 without a hitch, I have done it many times. If it was wrong why does the .460 work?
Came the .500 S&W that works with a LP mag and someone got an itch to take it to a LR. Brass was for either and guys got LR primers in LP brass and had slam fires. Warnings came out and brass was marked but LP mags still work in either.
The .475 is made from 45-70 brass with a LR pocket but powder companies said NO, too much pressure.
.44 mag is better with a standard LP and guys complain about cold weather but never consider they did not have enough 296 or moved the boolit.

44man
05-21-2016, 10:17 PM
300 MP might be too slow. It could be worse then 296. I have not tested primers for 36 years to be a smart butt. It was for accuracy and to save stupid. Did not change much when 2400 was top dog 296 was different.

Blackcat
05-21-2016, 10:30 PM
44 man THAT is one of the best explanations i've read!
I do recall the duplex and triplex loads, pretty interesting stuff (never seen it in person though)
"2400 will light the candle" Sorry never heard that expression. I take it you mean with 2400 and SR primers there "shouldnt be ignition issues?"

I would love to go to LP mag primers with my brass (still considering it)

But as far as i'm leaning ATM it sounds like 2400 in the .454 Starline with SR is the way to go and should be reliable.

I have no qualms about using the H110 in the same way at max load (so long as it's near factory reliable) Is that the case?

I hear as far as SR primers go, all are not equal. Sounds like winchester SR burns hotter then there's cci's SR mag. Idk much about the cci SRM but is there any evidance that either of these primers would be a better option than standard cci SR in both of these cases, with 2400 or max loads of H110?

jaydub in wi
05-21-2016, 11:23 PM
The reasons I included 300mp was because alliant has data available and that Brian Pearce used it in the 454 in an article a few years ago. It was developed just for this type of application. It is slower than H110 /296 but is easier to light .

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Lloyd Smale
05-22-2016, 07:36 AM
I will agree with 44man. The 454 is not a round that does good downloaded. It was never intended to be used like that. Its kind of like putting regular gas in a Ferrari. If you want a 45 colt buy one. I also agree with him in that 460 brass cut down is the best altenative. That said ive loaded 454s for over 20 years and have about allways seen a bit better accuracy in my guns with the ww small rifle standard primer if using 454 brass. don't know if its more stout then the rest or why this is but it has happened enough that I don't even fool with any other primers when loading it.

44man
05-22-2016, 09:09 AM
I never tried MP300 but if it ignites easier, that would solve it. I don't think airspace would be a problem since more can be used to fill the case better.
H110/296 has always been a fussy powder. It has to be held close to the primer. Now we never downloaded it in the .454, all loads never went below book starting loads that are considered safe. Most shots fired but then at any chamber we got the funny sound, could be first or last shot. Pull the cylinder and the powder was packed pretty tight behind the bullet/boolit, jacketed or cast. Back end just barely discolored. Much primer pressure to drive everything so far into the bore but it appeared there was not enough flame.
Going to a LP standard lit everything off but we found the LP mag primer increased accuracy a great deal. Same in the .475 and .500 JRH and if I remember my friend tried the Fed 150 in his .500 S&W but again, in all the Fed 155 was much more accurate. Same with all CCI primers. 300 or 350 had ignition. 350 more accurate in large cases.
I found the opposite in the .44 with standard primers cutting group size by 2/3's. Going down to the .357, we had trouble with any load and accuracy but none of us had any standard SP to test so that is still up in the air until I buy some. Hate to spend money since I do not have a .357, just have all the equipment so friends can load.
Then John bought a new S&W revolver in .45 ACP and it sprayed cardboard at 25 yards. I sat and stared at the brass and told him, "primer is too much." We had no SP brass so I cut bushings and we tested again. The difference was amazing from the revolver and even in his 1911 showed improvement but the semi is not as picky. Boolit held back better. He bought 1000 SP cases. Speer and they shoot great.
In the .44 I have used the Fed 150 since I started to use 296, 1980 or so, before that I used 2400 but IHMSA needed 200 meter accuracy and ram slammers. My experiments with tension measurements and primers let me win almost every production revolver shoot and Ohio state with 79 out of 80, shook on the last ram. If I had only 2400 today I would still be happy, still a great powder. Production revolver shooters hated to see me show up, they all used 4227's and mag primers. Can't hold 50 meter chickens! How about 20 straight turkeys at 150 meters, center punched? I tried to help but stubborn is the word--THE BOOK SAYS! 4227 is the worst powder EVER in the .44 but works in calibers like the .357 max.
Stubborn is alive even here.
Primers are always an issue but one can have 2000# more pressure.

jaydub in wi
05-22-2016, 10:08 AM
blackcat,
I'm kinda in the same boat as you are. I purchased a 454 a year or so ago. I also bought a bunch of brass from starline. I use H110 in 41 and 44 mags already, but I have read 44 man's posts about ignition failures. I was going to use IMR 4227 when I get time to load some. I have also picked up some 2400 and 300mp recently and think those would also work. I don't have a target velocity of 1600 with a 300 grain bullet, but would guess 300 mp would probably get there better than the other two. I can find Brian Pearce's 300 mp loads if you want. That powder is much easier to find than 2400 right now. Let us know about your results.

Blackcat
05-22-2016, 03:25 PM
jaydub I would be very interested to see Brian Pearce's mp300 data if you can find it thanks!
Mp300 has my interest but I cant find a whole lot of info on it in general (perhaps because it's so new)
Not sure if it's even available where I live. Even tracking down common powder here is like finding a unicorn lol.

It's all actually quite interesting when I read about this topic. It feels like organized mass confusion. Sure there will be disagreements about much of this stuff generally (that's the nature of the internet) but every now and then I come across articles written by the manufacturers that implies that they dont even know the exact details, just (heres a powder and a primer, heres what we thnk it does... Now go out and test it for us GOOD LUCK) lol.

Spooky

Now scratching my head (perhaps i'm reading it wrong again but) it seems like any time I bring up the topic of reloading .454 everyone assumes i'm loading too light lol :p
I dont know where this is coming from. Other than a few rounds back in the day as an experiment I havent really started to load yet and becides that I have absolutely NO interest in a light load.
.454 full house loads are my light load lol.

All I want is a load that matches factory for consistency and accuracy, specifically the Hornady 300 grain XTP mag at 1600fps. According to my load data taken from the Hornady handbook 8th edition that is a max load of H110.

Not to say I dont want lighter loads for plinking... Just not in .454. I have plans to work a .45 colt load separately for my .454 revolver. Not a .454/.45 but a true .45 colt.

The reason I keep going around in circles is not because I want to "create a new load"
I just want to know if .454 brass, with SR primers, and H110 at MAX load are as reliable and accurate as factory.

My thought is that it should be, as I believe the factory load uses a combination like that.

About squibs and other issues... I dont want them lol (who does) but on the other hand I dont worry about them (dont consider them terribly serious in my case) Not to say they arent serious but I know the sound and feel of my gun. I dont just load er up and start plugging away at the trigger. I contemplate each shot and the slightest feel or sound that isnt quite right and I stop to check.

44man I dont disagree with your advice in any way really. I dont believe SR primers are right for this load, but after much thought on this I think the confusion is in the wording/details perhaps.

The primers are not so much "wrong" as they are a "poor choice" they are soso for H110 only at max load. They are also soso for other powders. The LP mag would be a better choice I would think (not having tried it myself but the theory is sound)

I like the way you put it "bring the .454 to life by cutting .460 brass" thats exactly how I see it.
loading .454 to the book is very limiting as there is really no room for error. The LP mag primers would have been a better way to go... I wonder why .454 was never designed for LP? Seems like a pretty big miss too me. Perhaps it's time someone created a new .454 brass with LP pockets without having to cut down .460 (call it .454v2 lol)
Could be a market? Starline? Anyone?

So with my load: I wonder if Starline would exchange my .454 brass for .460? That would make it easier. It's pristine and every case is neatly in ammo boxes to keep them like new.
The downside is I bought these years ago and now see the price of the brass has doubled.
(another reason i'm reluctant to get rid of it)

I will contact Starline.
I will change to the winchester SR primers.
I will get some 2400.

I will test a hundred or so of each combination:

Winchester SR primer
cci SR primer

H110 max load
2400

And see what reults I get.

I will also try a batch of .450 brass in each with LP mags.
and .454 with pockets reamed for LP mag.

To find out for myself which of these are consistent.
Using cheap/used brass because it all comes down to cost.

This plan is based on the advice of everyone here that has helped me. I think it's a reasonable plan? It allows me to test all of your loads for myself and come to the same conclusions.

One more question on the side I have is... My data is all for jacketed .300 grain
How does one generally adjust for cast lead?

Sound good/other thoughts?

Just wait till I get into the .308 and .45/70 lmao :p Coming soon...

Blackcat
05-22-2016, 03:39 PM
Omg... It looks like replacing my .454 brass with .460 will cost me just over $1000 Dollars Canadian. That's almost on par with buying factory loaded .454. A lot of work and not a lot of savings there.

44man
05-22-2016, 04:56 PM
I see the problem so just load right. All will be good. .460 brass needs work to cut down too. A real pain.
I did not see you lived in Canada. So prices and freedom stinks. I am amazed you can even own a revolver.
WV passed a law that any law abiding citizen can carry without a permit. I will feel safer even though I don't carry unless a big BFR in a shoulder holster! But if the man or woman next to me has a gun, thank you. I live in a safe area but still love the ability to carry. I will not change and buy a carry. but I am free. I am an American and damned proud of it. 33 states allow carry across borders. Why not all 50? Do not go to MD with a gun. I can now buy a gun and so can my wife and carry it anywhere. In WV and some other states. I just feel no need but have the option.
Liberals are up in arms but nothing will change.

Blackcat
05-22-2016, 09:27 PM
I see the problem so just load right. All will be good. .460 brass needs work to cut down too. A real pain.
I did not see you lived in Canada. So prices and freedom stinks. I am amazed you can even own a revolver.
WV passed a law that any law abiding citizen can carry without a permit. I will feel safer even though I don't carry unless a big BFR in a shoulder holster! But if the man or woman next to me has a gun, thank you. I live in a safe area but still love the ability to carry. I will not change and buy a carry. but I am free. I am an American and damned proud of it. 33 states allow carry across borders. Why not all 50? Do not go to MD with a gun. I can now buy a gun and so can my wife and carry it anywhere. In WV and some other states. I just feel no need but have the option.
Liberals are up in arms but nothing will change.

I have often thought about moving to the USA just for the freedom and gun laws. The onlything that keeps me here is the politics and the law. I clash a little with the American political and legal system, but the people are good. Our laws are stiffer (far less freedom) but the enforcement of those laws is far more lax (our law enforcement and political leaders are a bunch of mild mannered pot smoking hippies lol :p )

As far as owning guns here... What a pain in the butt! Our firearm regulations change like the weather. All of our firearms and ammo come from your side of the border and somewhere along the way the prices get jacked WAY up and if it looks black and scary its not allowed lol.
limits and restrictions on just about everything. Heck they even pin our sks mags to five round limit and dont even think about an AK in this country lol (it's too scary, some liberal might look at it and have bad thoughts)

As far as firearms go I have more of a collection than most Canadians I think. As I mentioned earlier I got into it with the intention of competitive sport shooting. It's cost me thousands... Plus many courses to take and exams to pass and licences to apply for. After all that half my firearms arent even allowed out of the house unless the ammo is stored away from them, the triggers locked the gun must be in a box and I have to apply for special permits to go to and from the range or too the local gun shop with them. Much of the reloading supplies you have we cant even get here.

After all that... Theres always the chance our firearms can be taken away or banned at any moment because we dont have any rights like the second amendment that gives us the right to bare arms.

So lol idk... It stresses me a little but i've come to far to quit now.
The time and the money spent and countless hours teaching myself because theres nobody near me to learn from.

The advantage I have is a 1000 yard range in my back yard, right on my property.
disadvantage... No money to buy ammo lol :p (that's why I try to tweak every little thing)
Save brass, only buy componants once if possible, try not to waste time on guns and loads I wont use, sell what I dont need, make every shot count.

Thats the biggest concern for reloading, it's too easy to spend hundreds on components, powder, primers, brass, tools then find out they arent the right ones. You cant give this stuff away around here. So i'm trying to get it right the first time.

Anyway thanks for all the help! I think the plan I posted above is the one I will try first.

Some 2400 powder and a hundred of each primer to test with the 2400 and H110. Once I find a reliable, accurate load that wont burn my gun out too quickly I plan to load all my brass.

I havent even been able to track down factory .454 within 300-400 miles from my location for a few years. I'm told if I order it the wait is four months to a year! Thats so crazy lol.
The price for a box of 20 rounds of .454 last I checked here is $50. My .308 is $26 for 20 rounds of federal.

44man
05-23-2016, 09:25 AM
Cast in the .454? Yes and loads seem to be the same as jacketed but mostly you could use more powder because there is less pressure and friction. We used 26 gr of 296 with the 335 LBT and I made a mold for a 325 gr PB that I also used 26 gr but did exceed it for testing but don't remember where I stopped. 26 worked so we wrote that down.
You would not expect a PB to work at such high pressures but it does. Just WD WW metal too.
Now I do not own a .454 but many friends do and come for help and testing.
Jerry was having problems with cylinder alignment issues, wore throats oblong and the side of the cone getting into the rifling on one side. I reamed the throats but still had spots the reamer did not touch and I cut the forcing cone to 11°. Then I added some cylinder play in the right direction.168691 Left target is factory loads at 50 yards and the right is my PB after working on the gun. Both of us stared at the stupid PB and now it is all he will use. His son can hit pop cans at 100 off hand. Just regular .454 brass from fired factory loads so they CAN work if powder is enough.
I ran into another problem when another friend brought factory cast loads. They had massive full profile crimps. I picked one up and asked him "why so much crimp?"
We shot them from a SRH and 2 shots locked the gun from recoil pull but only 1 shot from a Freedom stopped it. Roll in pepper if bear hunting! Remove the front sight too.
Do factories get it right? I have doubted every single thing and all that is in gun rags.
I have been loading for 62 years and few things are right. Max load info is vital as is any load info but even it can be wrong.

44man
05-23-2016, 09:49 AM
Why don't I own a .454? I shoot only cast and hunt only deer so the gun is just too fast and needs special boolit work because it can lose deer or blow them to mush. It is better at long range or for much larger animals. There is a place for it but I am too lazy to do more work.
Yet the advance of the revolver started with it. Dick has a place in history like Elmer.

runfiverun
05-23-2016, 10:31 AM
Blackcat you'd be amazed here.
I was at the stop light yesterday filling one of my AR-15 magazines while waiting for the light to change when one of our city cop's pulled up next to me and seen the magazine [as I was shoving rounds in it]
he frantically motioned for me to roll down the window.

then asked where I was going hunting.

44man
05-23-2016, 11:13 AM
We really have little problems with LEO's They are great people with families that worry all day. But they must obey or be fired. Big brother in control. Some states and cities under liberal control will take every dollar you earn for taxes and hate the constitution. They have the most crime and the poorest people that suck tax money.
Even here Carol watches a real FAT woman pay for steaks we can't think about with a Snap card. Shopping carts filled to the brim. See the picture? Those that will not work and get free VOTE. It ruined Canada and England. Canada is a socialist country. I might pain you but it is true.
Our founding fathers knew the gov't was the enemy and made protections for the people.
Why does not Canada toss the liberals?

...

Blackcat
05-23-2016, 01:37 PM
Blackcat you'd be amazed here.
I was at the stop light yesterday filling one of my AR-15 magazines while waiting for the light to change when one of our city cop's pulled up next to me and seen the magazine [as I was shoving rounds in it]
he frantically motioned for me to roll down the window.

then asked where I was going hunting.

Rotflmao! I just read that too my family. If that happened here it would be all over the national news and half the country would be losing their minds :p Most Canadians wouldnt know what an AR mag is anyway. They seem to have a tendancy to refer to anything that fires a bullet here a "high powered sniper rifle" media huh lol.

44man I agree... I didnt mean that the LEOs are a problem or are bad. I'm not really a LEO hater :p Just that yours are more... Idk the word (tougher?) Although i've never run into any myself.
It could just be our media here. All I know about American police is based on American tv and movies (where they show them as the tough guys to he feared) I have seen a few live news shows with real LEOs being interviewed and they kind of seem the same way as they do in the movies imo. Almost military like. In contrast... Ours remind me of glorified meter maids :p
I went for a walk one night too the local skate park a few years ago. There was a bunch of underage teens hanging out drinking beer and doing extacy, the local cops showed up.
I hung out with them and talked about this and that. They talked to the teens but didnt charge them or take their beer or drugs. They just hung around and waited for them to finish the drugs and told them to clean up their empty cans. One cop even tried one of the teens skateboards lol
(probably how I would have handled it too :p)

Ours have been known to stop and smoke pot with people :p

Socialist... Yes I kind of agree.
I'm middle of the fence as far as politics goes. They are all 50/50 too me as far as options go.
I think our whole political system in general is dysfunctional. That's why I dont worry about it a whole lot. Many of us do want the liberals out... But memory is short it seems. Because people forget that when we had our conservative government in power just as many wanted them gone too.

I dont think i've seen a government in power in my lifetime that people were really happy with.

Ok on a side note: I'm not a conspiracy nut (for the most part) but at least here in Canada I dont think who we vote for really matters all in all.

First a new govt can be elected even if they dont get voted in (by technicallity).
When one political party is in power they pass bills and make changes, example (bringing in a gun registry) After an election the new political party in power immediately sets to work undoing the bills and changes of the previous party. Next election... Back it goes again, round and round.

Another thing is when a party is elected they often change their political platform and views completely once in power. I've seen liberals take up conservetive policy and vice versa.
They just have to say "sorry... My personal veiws have changed"

Meanwhile it seems to effect the average citizen "much" there are a few small changes, but all in all life goes on.

My current conclusion is that it's really all just a show, cheap entertainment (at least here it is)

Anyway back to guns and reloading lol

44man you seem to know a fair bit about revolvers.
I have had my .454 apart many times. Cleaned and stoned some of the internal parts, took meaurements and made a few small adjustments. The gun near as I can tell is in great working order for a "factory" gun. As is i'm fairly accurate with it but i'm always looking for new ways to improve accuracy even more.

Those groups you showed with your friends revolver were very interesting!

Any thoughts on what can be done to this revolver or be looked at to improve it's performance even more, above "factory" ? A gunsmith friend of mine tuned it a bit so it's very smooth and has a great trigger pull compared to other large factory revolvers. Things like polishing and boring chambers ect is what i'm thinking of (I dont know how any of that is done)
Better for a PM?

Lloyd Smale
05-24-2016, 06:29 AM
I live in a small town and the local police and sheriffs dept use my range to qualify at. Had one person who is an @@@ call in and ***** that I was making to much noise one Saturday morning with one of my ars. Sherrif stopped by to tell me about it and laughed and told me he suggested the guy try some earplugs!! The next wee the same guy came driving up while I was shooting and told me I had to quit. I told him that if he didn't turn his truck around and get the @@@@ off my property I was either going to call the police and charge him with trespassing or I was going to fix it so that he had some tire changing to do before he left. Never heard a word from him again. Its the one problem we have here. Pretty little tourist town and lots of city people decide to retire here and bring there liberal ideas with them.
Blackcat you'd be amazed here.
I was at the stop light yesterday filling one of my AR-15 magazines while waiting for the light to change when one of our city cop's pulled up next to me and seen the magazine [as I was shoving rounds in it]
he frantically motioned for me to roll down the window.

then asked where I was going hunting.

DougGuy
05-24-2016, 06:42 AM
In all honesty SELL the Taurus and get a Ruger! Since the Taurus apparently can break just from looking at it, and their customer service is nothing to speak of, it doesn't have a lot of fans here. Some yes but not many.

A Ruger in .45 Colt loaded to 30,000psi with your same boolits and H110 will take any game on the North American Continent.

You could use the same exact loads in your Taurus but even these are quite a handful so back to square one.

44man
05-24-2016, 09:37 AM
TV and the news will always portray the police in a bad light. Small towns all over want as many speeding tickets written until the book is empty. It would be my only gripe.
One place I hated to drive through was VA. 50 mile trip to work and every road had radar, even back country roads. I once counted 5 different departments in a mile. I learned to not drive too fast. They would have radar out in one spot and just past them would be another because once past the first, guys would speed up.
I like WV and can drive for years without seeing a police car on back roads. No radar, just on main highways and not that often. But small towns you better drive the limit. Money is the devil.
I live a half mile from Bakerton and shoot with huge guns, even hear shooting in town and all around, nobody cares. I am not allowed to shoot, living in one of those communities with a paper you sign but I set my range up the first year. Most of us hunt and shoot anyway and I can hunt all of my neighbors lands without even asking. We even shot a .50 BMG a few times.
Now Doug makes a point but how do you sell a gun in Canada? Then to buy another? I have only played with one Taurus, .44 and it did 1/2" at 50 for me. I have no opinion about them with just one experience.
As everyone knows, most of the time a gun will be decent and how you load is where accuracy comes from. The .454 is--well-- different! You will have a hard time working loads but it shoots where it is made for. Funny thing is when I changed primers, it still shot best at top loads. I was able to work from starting up but as I got to max, it shot better and loads for either primer were still the same. Case tension and dies used still work. I favor Hornady dies over all else. HARD lead but if you want expansion, fiddle with the nose only. Be careful, you can blow deer parts to another country.
Trouble with the .44 had me buy BR collar dies, special made to fit my Big Max press and they worked but are a pain. RCBS went to make other tools. Many die makers have no idea.

rosewood
05-24-2016, 01:41 PM
I just started loading .454 in my encore 12" pistol. I am using Lee 316 WFNGC (cast myself, COWW water dropped) with IMR 4227 and Winchester small rifle primers. I am using 26 grains just below the max for a 300 grain in the Lyman manual. So far, I am getting very good accuracy and was consistent. I have not chronographed yet, but was getting about 1.5" at 100 yards with the loads.

I didn't know small rifle primers was a big deal in the .454.

Rosewood

rosewood
05-24-2016, 01:43 PM
Blackcat you'd be amazed here.
I was at the stop light yesterday filling one of my AR-15 magazines while waiting for the light to change when one of our city cop's pulled up next to me and seen the magazine [as I was shoving rounds in it]
he frantically motioned for me to roll down the window.

then asked where I was going hunting.

Now, that is funny...

44man
05-24-2016, 03:32 PM
I just started loading .454 in my encore 12" pistol. I am using Lee 316 WFNGC (cast myself, COWW water dropped) with IMR 4227 and Winchester small rifle primers. I am using 26 grains just below the max for a 300 grain in the Lyman manual. So far, I am getting very good accuracy and was consistent. I have not chronographed yet, but was getting about 1.5" at 100 yards with the loads.

I didn't know small rifle primers was a big deal in the .454.

Rosewood
Only with h110/296 at starting loads. Never tried 4227 in it. I don't like it in the .44 but it was choice in the .357 max.
You add to information. i would like to hear more.

rosewood
05-25-2016, 07:22 AM
I traditionally had used H110 for magnum loads. But I tried 2400 in the 7mm TCU and had great results, then for some reason got IMR4227 and had good results in that also. I used the IMR4227 in 45-70 too. I had been loading hot 45 colt to shoot out of 454 rifle for several years using H110 but never loaded in 454 brass and since I got the 12" encore decided to use 454 brass to reduce the jump to lands. My LYMAN manual suggest that the most accurate load with the 325 grain cast boolit is with IMR4227, so I decided to start with it. The accuracy is great for a fat 45 caliber boolit, so I will probably not try anything else.

It is also my understanding that IMR4227 doesn't have the "reduced load issue" that H110 does. I don't think you get the top velocities you can with H110, but I think I am past the days of "how fast can I push it", now favoring, "how accurate can I get it".

Rosewood

44man
05-25-2016, 08:34 AM
The problem I had with either 4227 in the .44 was as the gun heated, velocity climbed fast. So I think it needs tested in the caliber you have since it did not do that in the .357 max.
Why in the .44? Wish I knew.

rosewood
05-25-2016, 12:39 PM
The problem I had with either 4227 in the .44 was as the gun heated, velocity climbed fast. So I think it needs tested in the caliber you have since it did not do that in the .357 max.
Why in the .44? Wish I knew.

I can't say if it does that in the .454 or not. I haven't shot over the Chrony yet. It may very well do the same. I did fire probably 30-40 rounds in about a 20 minute period, so not sure if it got hot enough to do what you are saying. The last group was one of my best and not a whole lot better than the first, so no real indication of major fluctuations.

Ha, maybe it was because of the small rifle primers. Hehe.

454PB
05-25-2016, 01:24 PM
I have a Ruger SRH, Freedom Arms 83, and a Taurus Raging Bull, all in 454 Casull. I've been loading for .454 since 1992 and faced the same issues discussed here. If you are using any of the slow ball powders, you have to use small rifle magnum primers, or carry that brass rod that 44man mentioned. That includes H-110/296, AA#9, and WC820. Lil'Gun has been the exception for me......I've never had any ignition problems with it. Still, I've made it a habit to use magnum primers with the slow burning ball powers. I've experimented with opening up the primer pockets to accept large pistol primers, but it's a lot of hassle.

runfiverun
05-25-2016, 02:42 PM
Jim:
I think it's column height.
look at the differences between the x57 rounds and the 308 family of cases.
I get loads in the X57 cases to work perfectly that give me velocity variations in the fatter case.
I think the longer case shape mitigates the primer blast and changes the burn rate of the powder slightly.

I know when I ackleyed the 7mm it sped up the burn rate of the powders slightly.
so I went to the slowest powder speed that filled the parent case 100% and gave the velocity's I wanted.
using that same load in the Ackley case gave me velocity's which were 100 fps faster than in the standard case.
no other changes,, just a case shape change and a slight increase in case volume.

44man
05-25-2016, 08:43 PM
That is true, Why I think a .44 is too small for a mag but the .475 and up love them. As the case gets larger so can primers.
What I have not figured out is if a larger bottle absorbs pressure better of if more kernels of powder need ignited faster to get burn up. Maybe both.

leftiye
05-26-2016, 08:18 AM
Any data on using Accurate 300MP?

Tar Heel
05-26-2016, 09:50 AM
How many times I have posted is crazy. NO STARTING LOADS WITH H110 or 296. ONLY MAX. The SR primer is wrong an any form.

Sometimes they just have to learn the hard way. Oh well.

READ YOUR LOADING MANUAL AND USE THAT DATA

44man
05-26-2016, 10:20 AM
Sometimes they just have to learn the hard way. Oh well.

READ YOUR LOADING MANUAL AND USE THAT DATA
That was the problem, starting loads failed but stopped funny stuff as loads neared max by a half gr. i really believe the load info can be wrong too. What they use to measure pressure is not what we shoot.

High Desert Hunter
06-01-2016, 06:59 PM
I have loaded and fired thousands of 454 Casull rounds in Starline Brass with H110 and both SR and SRM primers, I have never had a single hangfire or a misfire of any kind. I do not use starting loads, except those in the load data provided by Freedom Arms, I use mostly data in the middle of the load data spectrum. I now use mostly SRM primers due to buying 4K of them on clearance, and I save the regular SR for the 223. I have used up about 4 lbs of 300-MP so far, about half in my SBH 480, the other half split between the 44 and the 454, it is a little slower than H110, and has proven to be a good powder so far, a long way to go before it catches up with the amount of H110 I have used over the years. I will say, my accuracy increased when I started using a Redding Profile Crimp Die, it really applies a nice crimp.

Dano in Mexico
06-12-2016, 05:12 PM
I have been reloading the 454 Casull for quite a while and have learned that consistent case length is crucial for a consistent crimp which equates to accuracy. I personally like to use Redding dies as I seem to get a well sized case that provides excellent neck tension along the bearing surface of the bullet whether I use Starline or Freedom Arms brass. Lastly the only primer I will use is the Remington 7 1/2 BR primer. I have tried all of the other mag and non mag SR primers and my personal accuracy suffered until I circled back to the Rem 7 1/2's, so now I'll never look back. I have many rounds documented over the top of a chronograph that prove (to me) better FPS velocities and more importantly lower extreme spreads when using the Rem 7 1/2's. I would highly recommend a chronograph when you are working on tweaking a recipe as it will tell you many things that you wouldn't otherwise know. I would also recommend that you consult the bullet makers loading data and not so much the powder companies data. I recently looked at some powder company data that suggested pushing the 45 caliber Hornady 250 XTP at 1758 FPS with almost 50K psi in the 454 Casull. One quick look at Hornady's reloading manuals for the last few years doesn't show or suggest using that bullet. I personally like cast and jacketed bullets between 260 and 335 grain and I am not biased to any one powder. I like H110, IMR 4227, MP 300 and HS-6. In today's environment we have so many good choices that it is almost mind boggling. Be consistent in your reloading procedures and it will pay dividends. Good Luck.