Noe 432 277 Keith

[RedHawk357Mag]

So anybody shooting this yet? Beautiful mold, drops great looking bullets fairly easily, but having a devil of a time to get a group under 5" at 25 yards with a ultra dot on 5.5 RedHawk. Alloy is wheel weight with around 2 percent tin. Using Randy Rat lube. Tried CFE pistol, Longshot, Unique, and a start load of 20.5 of 4227. Nothing really grouped well. This gun and shooter consider 2" at 25 yards acceptable and achieved fairly routinely with other loads. Although these smaller groups have been shot with RNFP style bullets specifically 432640 clone and the Accurate 240T. As for source data I have conservatively used the 270 gold dot data from the for pay manual from Hodgdon and crossed it with Speer 14 with the 250 Keith loads and a third opinion from Lyman 4th edition using the Saeco 265 gn RNFP. Finally not seeing much posted about this mold I expected folks to be raving about it. Thanks for reading.

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[osteodoc08]

In my RedHawk, I've noticed the cylinders have undersized throats and have given me fits. I need to send them out to DougGuy. IIRC, he was on vacation or out of town and would be back this week.

I'd start by slugging the cylinders and barrel. See what you get. You should be getting better accuracy than that.

Try working up the 4227 which has always been an accurate powder for me in all my magnums.

[RedHawk357Mag]

Thanks Osteo, I had cylinder done by Cylinder Smith when he was doing 44s. And yes there was cylinder drama as well as barrel constrictions, fire lapped one completely gone, and the second one is barely detectable. I chose to keep it under observation as opposed to possibly taking it too far. Before putting the ultradot on my sight picture was the limiting problem. I have three other semi wad cutter molds to cast and test to see if maybe I need to stay with lighter weight with my desired load range. Although I bought a pound of 110 and 4227 just to find out if I am not giving this bullet enough gas. Also got carnauba red and couple other White Label lubes to try if that is the source of the problem. I agree it should do better and I in no way feel it's a mold issue. Thanks.

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[376Steyr]

Have you checked the as-cast diameter of the bullets, just in case they are coming out way under-sized? After that, I think you probably have a gun problem. There have been a couple of threads about revolvers with cylinder alignment issues, where round nose ammo shoots fine, but SWCs shoot poorly. I personally have a Ruger Vaquero in 45 Colt that scatters SWC loads, but loves RNFP. The other thing that comes to mind is the NOE 277 is significantly longer than the Accurate 240T, so you might have a stabilization problem. Per Ruger, the Redhawk is supposed to have a 1:20 inch twist, which should be plenty fast enough to do the job. You might verify your gun's twist rate, just in case it is something a lot slower.

[csatrustburg]

I have the redhawk also but 7.5 using the 432-265 Keith design best I got was 21.5 h110 plain base. Sized to 431 done great around two inch groups.

[RedHawk357Mag]

That's a good description of my rounds "scattered". Bullets are better than .431" as I size them on a star with expected resistance. Gotta read some on cylinder alignment, that might be something to investigate further. I was thinking stabilization as well as I really don't hot rod my 44s. I bought a can of 110 and 4227 to check and see if turning up the gas might change anything. Got a couple hundred of the Winchester large pistol in a drawer somewhere to go along with the powder to check it out. Thanks.

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[44MAG#1]

I have the H&G 326 that drops a 275 gr Keith. I use 20.5 2400 with it and have had no problems. Sized .430".
22.5 to 23.0 H110/W296 with Standard primers such as the CCI 300 or Fed 150's will do well too.

[Mal Paso]

I've got a few hundred cast. I'll get them loaded today and see how they fly tomorrow.

25 yards is pretty close to have aerodynamic issues. Hmmmm

It is a nice casting mold. Many Keiths don't release from the mold easily.

[Don Purcell]

Hopefully I will be shooting this afternoon with the hollowpoint and hollowbased versions in the .44 Special but will load up some more for the .44 Magnum and report back. All this is depending on my rusty abilities to time the sights with the trigger.

[RedHawk357Mag]

Awesome! I was hoping some folks with the mold would post some results. The mold casted fantastically. I am happy with everything about it except for the fact it is being finicky about a load in my RedHawk. CFE pistol has worked with just about everything I have tried it with but it was no joy with this gun and bullet. Longshot is another powder that does well for me as well although I have not worked it all the way out with it. I tried Unique with about four different loads and it was about the same. I don't use Unique often because it's tendencies to throw inconsistent in my Redding powder measures. 4227 I have used in 357 quite a bit as I came into a deal of about 4 lbs super cheap. Metal cans from the early 80's. I had a pretty good load with it and the Noe clone of the 429421 bullet. I bought a new can of it in case I needed some more to complete some work ups. Some one mentioned 2400, I think I might try that before I break the seal on the h110. As for cylinder alignment I think I might be able to accomplish the "range rod" task with my set of minus pin gauges. I seriously hope that's not case as gunsmiths are rare as chicken teeth in these parts. Are I didn't even use the qualifiers of "revolversmith" or "good". Although it seems to shoot the RNFP well enough. I may have to break the 629 out and see if it might be able to shoot this bullet well. My only issue there is I tend to baby my Smiths and that's a heavy bullet.

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[Mal Paso]

I worked all day yesterday and last night all I wanted was to soak in the claw foot tub. Got a hundred cases primed this morning. Trying to decide what powder, 2400, duh. Because it was Elmer's powder. Filling the cases now and will try to be at the range when they open. Just needed an excuse.

[Mal Paso]

Unfortunately 4" is about as good as I'm shooting offhand at 25 yards now and I never could shoot from a bench. Had to remind them of my name at the range today too. Anyway here is a 4" target with 18 shots at 25 yards with a 6" S&W 629 iron sights, 19g of 2400 and Fed 150 primer behind the 432277, Glen's Lube, averaged 1253 fps Standard Deviation of 22 with 976 ftlbs Muzzle Energy.

Also tried 19g AA#9 and Fed 150 averaged 1298 fps with a SD of 31 and 1047 ftlbs ME with not so good a group. The burn did not tighten up with the heavier boolit like the 2400 did. Accurate says Mag Primer and I'm using it with the H&G #503 now. Doh!

I was six for six with the AA#9 load on some bowling pins at 20y and only moved them a couple feet. They were laying in the reactive target area and may have been too shot up.

A buddy asked today and my 629 must have 80,000 rounds on it. These are S&W friendly loads.

OP: I shot my Redhawk enough to have timing issues and had to stretch the Hand as they didn't have an oversize hand for repair. Shooting cast blows lube and crud up the crane inside the cylinder that causes drag and accentuates timing issues. Pain to pull the cylinder and clean too but it takes almost no tools. Just throwing that in as the NOE 432277 didn't blow me away but I didn't see any red flags either.

[RedHawk357Mag]

Much appreciated Mal. I plan to get back after it tomorrow. I got several powder suggestions to work up. I just expected it to wow me like the Mihec 432640 did. Again thanks posting.

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[Mal Paso]

Much appreciated Mal. I plan to get back after it tomorrow. I got several powder suggestions to work up. I just expected it to wow me like the Mihec 432640 did. Again thanks posting.

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That may be the Tell. I have that mold and the bullet nose may be making the final cylinder/barrel alignment. Make sure the hand is pushing the cylinder all the way until the bolt under the cylinder locks (and not too far). I have warn out the timing on 2 guns and it one of those things that sneaks up on you.

Any fired cartridges with off center firing pin strikes?

[44man]

Keith got the meplat right but the shoulder---NO. It was made to cut paper as target shooting was a big thing so he designed the boolit for hunting and paper. The shoulder fails at the cone so the boolit must be HARD, my experiments have showed 28 to 30 bhn will clock the cylinder. Keith shoots from a perfect alignment only.
The RH has grip issues too. Hits vary with your hold.
4227 in a .44? NO! Very heat sensitive in the caliber but works in others. Warm barrel and throw the gun.
LP mags---NOT GOOD either. I use only the fed 150 in the .44.
25 yards??? How about 200 yards? 168749 Then off hand at 100 yards. 168750 Yeah, 3/4" at 100.
Can't see for beans anymore and a gun waves all over with shoulder injuries. But guns do not change when right.
This SBH has gone to 82,000 heavy loads with brass loaded over 40X.
Lee and LBT have better boolits, the 265 RD will do 3/4" at 50 all day. The Lee 310 is a deer smasher with accuracy bar none.

[RedHawk357Mag]

Nah, this is one of those guns a guy bought because it was a magnum. When he or she figured the blast and cost of factory ammo it found itself in a pawn shop. I bought it and had drama with leading and accuracy. After a few years of reading and working kinks out its actually being shot on somewhat normal frequency now. I would say 99 percent of rounds are mid-level 44 magnum. With the addition of the red dot on this gun my ability to shrink groups, and shoot informative groups at 25 yards has really improved. So today I tried higher work ups of Unique 10.5 yielded 3 3/8" for 5 rnds. Four of them grouped at 1 1/4" I will reshoot that load with 10.3 and 10.7 in test queue for tomorrow. Work ups of 2400, 19 gns worked best 4 1/4" for five rnds four rnds at 2 1/4". I feel a little better now. ☺.

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[44MAG#1]

168798

I believe I may be having stability problems with my H&G #326.
Ruger FT Blaxkhawk Bisley 4 5/8's inch, 44 Special, 275 gr Keith, Alliant PowerPistol, 8.5 gr, Rem 2 1/2 primer.
25 Yards. 2.5 inches outside to outside of the widest holes.

[44MAG#1]

168802

Same gun and load as above but at 100 yards. Shot two to get "the lay of the land" then shot 6 shots.
Shot 2 went high, felt the grip slip and knew the shot was high, but put five inside 7 5/8's inches.

[Don Purcell]

Threw together some loads for the new Keith slugs. Powder charge of 23 grains 296 with Fed 150 and hollowbase version. Alloy was 10 on hardness, not the best for the loads involved. Fired out of my old Smith 8 3/8 at 25 yards. First off I don't shoot as much as I used to but barring inabilities most groups went 1 1/2 to 2 inches throwing out my own caused flyers. Sometimes a little larger. Definitely nothing to write home about. The hollowpoint version was about the same with 22 grains 296. Nothing makes up for trigger time but I'm going to cast up some more at around a 14-15 hardness. I got the hollowbase version expressly for my Colt Single Action .44 Special because of the large mis-match between the barrel and cylinder throats, .428 and .433 respectively. See what happens later.

[Don Purcell]

44MAG#1, that's pretty good at 100. That would correlate to around 3/4 inches at 25 yards. Right?

[RedHawk357Mag]

44 Man, what does "clock the cylinder" mean?
Thanks for the tip on Federal primers. Not been a Federal guy since shooting Federal Gold Medal Match 308s. Fantastic accuracy but brass is absolutely dung. Great shooting in spite of all the detractors. Way to stay with it.

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[Don Purcell]

Nope, sorry. Brain fart, didn't sleep well last night, meant to put around 1 3/4 inches at 25 yards. Right now I would take that.

[44MAG#1]

1.91 inches at 25 yards. It would correspond to. 7.281 MOA at any distance you want to figure it.

[44man]

Not bad for a short barrel. Darn good in fact.

[44man]

44 Man, what does "clock the cylinder" mean?
Thanks for the tip on Federal primers. Not been a Federal guy since shooting Federal Gold Medal Match 308s. Fantastic accuracy but brass is absolutely dung. Great shooting in spite of all the detractors. Way to stay with it.

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It means a little play in the cylinder to turn to alignment as the boolit nose enters the forcing cone. A soft Keith can rub the shoulder off and the boolit is no longer straight to the bore. Best cylinders have movement to let the boolit align to center. But the Keith shoulder loses it.

[RedHawk357Mag]

Thanks 44 Man for explaining that term. You mentioned a couple of other molds being better suited for 44http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160524/fb6e23d983f0b686d3a446d88e082fc7.jpg magnum. I wonder if might care to weigh on this design from Accurate. I have it in 357 and it shoots extremely well in the 357 RedHawk. And it shoots pretty well with pretty much any powder I try with it with a fairly wide range of powder weights. Of course I fully understand one bullet design may or may not shoot well from one gun to the next but I figure you might have insight to this design that I might not have considered. Much appreciated.

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