help reloading 45 acp

[pbriggs7]

Hey how's it going looking for some wisdom. Shooting 45 ACP out of a 1911 and XD45. Problem, out of 100 rds. 4-5 failure to feed. It seems like the case is catching high on the throat into the barrel in both guns. Using 200 grn. cast WW, win Lrg. pistol primers and 4.8 grn. win 231. Bullets sized and lubed to .451". I posted on another site and got some anwsers of checking case length, or checking crimp size. I adjusted the crimp size to the rim of the case is sitting at .468". Haven't fired them yet that is coming tomorrow. I don't want to have to trim cases, alot of guiys says there's no need, they never do it. But the one guy who said to check the length, made me check my cases and most of the cases are at .905" or more and lyman manual says trim length is .888" right. Is this an issue using cast bullets that these other guys wouldn't have a clue about?? What's the thoughts of you gentlemen here on the issue.. Thanks for any help in advance.

[Kraschenbirn]

Which 200 grainer are you using...a "long nose" like the H&G #68 or something shorter like the RCBS 45-200? Over the years, I've run (literally!) 100s of thousands of CBs through my 1911s and, as a rule, have found that the "long nose" boolit designs feed more reliably in unmodified guns. And, btw, I've never trimmed a .45 ACP case in my life and taper crimp everything.

Bill

[NVcurmudgeon]

I got my start about 1960 loading .45 ACP. Out of many thousands of cases that I have measured for length, before I got smarter, I never found one that needed trimming. Your crimp diameter sounds reasonable, as well as load specifications. I hope you are using a taper crimp. You did not mention overall length. The old bullseye shooter's trick is to headspace the case on the shoulder of the boolit. With the barrel out of the pistol and muzzle pointed to the floor, drop a cartridge into the chamber. The head of the case should be even wth the barrel hood when checked with a straightedge. I use the same 200 gr. H&G 68 SWC as Krashenbirn does. You posted, "Haven't fired them yet that is coming tomorrow." That implies that you have only hand fed your ammunition so far, and actual firing may show that all is well.

[pbriggs7]

True enough, we'll see tomorow, but I'm sitting at home today with my daughter and I'm bored to HELL!! I'll come back and let you guys know. I just didn't know if it was a cast bullet issue the other forum wouldn't know about. and yes that's how I check overall length, with the barrel out of the gun. So we'll see.

[R.M.]

As others have mentioned, there's probably no need to trim cases for the .45 ACP.
For all my SWC bullets, I ignore the OAL, and leave about .050 of the shoulder proud of the case mouth.
Works for me. YMMV

[DLCTEX]

The only "hang' problems I've had were due to seating the 200 SWC too deep. Leaving about 20 thou. of the boolit shoulder out of the case cured the problem. As stated above, headspace on the boolit shoulder. DALE

[mooman76]

Try a real good cleaning and polishing the feed ramp. You didn't say what type bullet. I had trouble with SWC's in my 1911. I switched to rn and solved the problem. Plus I was using LLA which was building up on the feed ramp.

[shotman]

as a rule the mag will control the seat point i seat mine as long as will feed in mag with no binding light taper crimp no feed problems in a colt match-- kimber--or sig--i use the Lee TL 200gr shotman

[pbriggs7]

changed the crimp to .468 at the case mouth, range stats today with 200grn. SWC, no failure to fire, feed or extract. that's all I changed and accuracy at 25yds. was all over the center mass. Probably gonna polish the throat and fed ramp, and gonna look into a long or round nose for the future. We'll have to see how the 1911 does at the range next time as I shot only my Springfield XD 45 today. thanks guys and lata.

[TexRebel]

I have also found that useing a "Wad Cutter" mag helps with feed problems useing a SWC Cast bullet, that is all I shoot in my 45's any more

[DLCTEX]

I get better accuracy sizing to .452 instead of .451. When I bought my lubsizer it came with a .451 die and I struggled with accuracy until I got a .452 die, I was surprised that .001 larger made such a difference. DALE

[35remington]

If the gun is working correctly, stay away from "polishing the throat and feed ramp."

This "improvement" has been responsible for the ruination of more 1911's than any other bit of advice ever given on the topic.

Also, you need to understand how the overall length of the round affects feeding characteristics, and how different magazines work. They're not all the same, and some cartridges are not compatible with the feeding characteristics of some guns and magazines.

[MtGun44]

This problem is most often inadequate taper crimp.

Bill

[HeavyMetal]

I'm gonna open a can o' worms here I just know it!

Any varaition in case length is going to cause a varaition in crimp, taper or roll, because of longer or shorter case's.

This means you will have different "bullet pull" at ignition! If the case's are very close in length you might not notice but a big difference in length can be measured on the target.

Ken Waters did a second revision of the 9 mm Luger in Handloader years ago and found case length variation caused groups 25% ( I think) larger than case's that were sorted by length! This information is in the Pet Loads note book!

Now I will agree that triming case's is a pain and, in the 45 Auto, not really nessary if your just practising.

However any match ammo I make get's trimmed so that all case's are the same length! Anything shoter than my Lee trimmer is set for gets in the reject pile and anything longer gets cut to size!

I also check to see if the trimmed case's are actually trimmed all the way around! I have seen case's cut metal and then seen that it was only off one side! These case's also get put in the reject pile.

As for revolver rounds like 38 special, 357 Mag or 44 mag. yes thes get trimed because I've had case's not roll crimp and I've had case's buckle because the were to long! Again uniform length give's uniform crimp which gives uniform ignition which give uniform groups!

So anybody buckled a 357 case lately?

[Morgan Astorbilt]

I guess I'll throw my hat in the ring. Back before taper crimps, people were shooting CB's in .45acp using roll crimps, with no problem regarding seating depth(headspace). That's because, as we all knew, the .45acp, in 1911's, headspaces on the extractor, not the case mouth. Just my two pennies worth.
Morgan

[HeavyMetal]

I still put a slight roll crimp on my 45 case's! Just enough to turn the flaired part of the case mouth back in to touch the boolit.

This is the reason I started trimming to be consistant in that crimp!

[leftiye]

Pu a slight (as much as is necessary to stop the boolit from telescoping back inside the case) roll , taper if you want, crimp in behind the front edge of a lube groove, use a boolit that headspaces on the ogive against the rifling at this length. LOA to just be level with the back of the barrel hood.

[TAWILDCATT]

jacket bullets dont need crimp.how ever I have never checked my cases for length
and I have a AMT longslide.I can feed empties from clip[mag]and I roll crimp.my mags are cheapies $6.99 never had a jam.and shoot in x ring at 50 ft at 50 yrds I can score but my eyes were never that good. I did keep them in the 8 ring and better.my load is 200 gr swc H&G or lyman or lee.3.6 gr of 700X.standard spring.
I use same load in AMT hardballer and a Federal ordnance 1911.:coffee:[smilie=1::Fire:I am out that AOL cut me off again

[yodar]

The only "hang' problems I've had were due to seating the 200 SWC too deep. Leaving about 20 thou. of the boolit shoulder out of the case cured the problem. As stated above, headspace on the boolit shoulder. DALE

if yer gun is new, like what happened to me, I was shooting it rather casually,like I get away with in my 9mm, and I was told with a new gun, if you limp-wrist it, you will get FTF. The gun was new, stiff and needed all the kinetic energy of the slide to fully function. Limp-wristing steals some of that energy the slide needs to drive a cartridge into battery.

I Took a death grip on the gun while firing and it functioned perfectly. I only hadda do this for a while, maybe a box or two of ammo.

I was told once the gun is broke in you can shoot normally and I shouldn't use those super greases like break- free or Tetra till after the gun's broke in

yodar

[Echo]

My 2 cents (and well worth it!) is that I heard that the 45ACP headspaces on the bullet, so one should leave the shoulder of the SWC out of the case .050-.060, and taper crimp, no trimming . I do, and have no problems with either my house gun or my competition gun (452460/3.6 grs BE). So I agree with R.M.

EasyEd
USAF Ret
NRA Patron
O&U

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

pbriggs7

What I am about to say upsets some folks, so please take it as a reminder of the basics and not a doubt of your abilities. It seems strange to me that you would be having intermittent problems with your reloads in two different pistols. My "reminder" to you is to insure that you have firm grip on the pistol when firing. Allot of failure to feed or eject problems are caused by a loose grip when firing. The is especially true with tight chambered blow back design pistols. I have seen many shooter that while first having a proper grip tend to loosen their grip after firing more than a box of shells. Before I changed anything with your reloads I would re-fire a string of rounds using a firmer grip. I hope this will advert chasing any reloading ghosts.

Regards,
Everett