velocity for hunting

[canuck4570]

I have read and it seems that in general velocity for hunting is around 1900 fps

my question his…… most of my shot will be at 100 to 200 hundred yards should I try to get this 1900 fps at the muzzle or at the range that I will hit the game

my rifle is a 308 winchester and cast bullets his 200 gr saeco 301 and the game is moose

[white eagle]

velocity plays a back seat to accuracy
speed of light make no difference if you miss

[canuck4570]

I have tried Hogdon 4985 up to 2300 fps and all are very accurate up to 200 yards …… longest range at the club….

my sako 85 carbonate with the 1/11 twist seems to love the Saeco 301

[tdoyka]

for deer i use either a 30-40 krag with a 165gr ranch dog at about 1800fps and a 444 marlin with a 280gr wfn gc at 1800-2000fps(still have to test it).

i've only killed one doe since i started using cast, but it was 93 yards with my 30-40 krag. the boolit hit the shoulder, both of the lungs, took the top of the heart and broke another rib on the way out. i can take the 165gr rd coww(around 12bhn) at 1800fps out to 200yards but i have a self imposed limit of 150 yards.

velocity doesn't make much of a difference, but the alloy of the boolit does. someone will be along with a better alloy(bhn) than i. my guess would be lyman#2(bhn15), but that is just a guess.

[runfiverun]

boolit weight counts when the animals weight goes up.
I consider the 7mm marginal when using cast on a deer, 30 is about my minimum for that.
for an Elk then stepping up to a 200gr 30 cal boolit would still seem rather borderline to me.
your just taking too much of a chance.
7mm with jacketed is fine for cow Elk but I'd rather have a 30 and jacketed for a Bull.

and I want penetration, cast will provide that for sure.
what happens between hole A and hole B determines how far I have to drag something or how far I have to track something.
I'd rather use a heavier larger diameter slow moving projectile if I'm going to use naked lead.
if I have to take a shot over about 100 yds I want something I don't have to think about how much it drops on the way.
especially if I have all of about 2 seconds to think about it.

spend the 30 bucks and buy 100 165gr bullets.

[canuck4570]

have over 200 sierra 165 gr. hollow point
but want to try lead
I used to hunt with my 458 and 4570 but these rifle are heavy
I practice all summer shooting positions and I always shot my moose in the head and only when I am certain of doing so

[runfiverun]

you still have to have performance when the boolit gets there.
think about the angles on a mooses head.
now test your boolits against what they have to penetrate.
lead will go through a lot of stuff and do it straight if the nose impacts straight.
but an angled blow it won't do.

[canuck4570]

my first moose I shot was with a 165 gr. speer round nose no longer made from my 30-06 and the moose was at 178 yard
to my surprise the fore head only had a caliber entrance and no exit and there was only small amount of blood coming out of the ears

yes moose bones are thought

[quilbilly]

My experience is primarily with elk. IMO a terminal velocity of about 1400 FPS with a cast lead 200 gr projectile ought to do just fine even if you hit a major bone reducing the penetration. A 200 gr boolit has a lot of momentum at 1400 fps. " Big and slow" can often be a good thing at closer ranges.

[canuck4570]

think I am going to have a good summer with all the test I want to do on penetration expansion and so on
will post result

[runfiverun]

cool, I'd like to see some good tests.

[rodwha]

I'm also quite interested in the results.

[canuck4570]

I want forget

[Duckiller]

If you are shooting 200gr boolits then use 44/40 as your base line. 12-1300 MV to kill deer at 75-100yds. If you are going to shoot to 200yds you will probably need a little higher MV.

[MT Chambers]

You have made a good choice for moose, I've shot 2 with smaller cals. using cast here in Sask. Kanada, the .32/40 and a .44 mag....the only advantage to raising the velocity will be to flatten the trajectory a bit, but if you hunt in the bush you should be good to go.

[BrentD]

Haven't shot a deer or moose but as moose are heavier boned, I'd say 2400 (close to max jacketed) with #2 maybe toughened with sulfur or Cu would do the job. .

Funny, my Yukon moose succumbed to about 1200 fps and 40:1 lead/tin. 2400 is excessive if all you want is dead. Really.

[canuck4570]

Funny, my Yukon moose succumbed to about 1200 fps and 40:1 lead/tin. 2400 is excessive if all you want is dead. Really.

at what distance where you when you shot your moose

[BrentD]

80

Would have been the same result at 300 or more

[canuck4570]

80

Would have been the same result at 300 or more

are you telling me your 1200 fps is effective at 300 yards
if so you must of done a lot of kentucky windage

[BrentD]

are you telling me your 1200 fps is effective at 300 yards
if so you must of done a lot of kentucky windage
Not really. The wind wasn't blowing that hard.

This guy died to a 1180 fps (at the muzzle) bullet at about 60 yds. He is much bigger than the moose.


http://www.public.iastate.edu/~jessie/PPB/Africa%202006/Eland%202006%20small.jpg


This guy, same trip, same bullet, 200 yds. Same result. He is about elk sized.
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~jessie/PPB/Africa%202006/Hartebeest.jpg



You guys make way too much of a deal about velocity. The industry has been pounding it into the heads of American hunters since the .30-30 wonder cartridge was invented, but you don't NEED it.

[Don Fischer]

hard to believe 1200 fps will work well at 300 yds. Problem being a heavy bullet, probably rather low BC will shed a lot of velocity in that distance. At low velocity, weight is a huge help in penetration but at 300 yds with a bullet starting at 1200 fps at the nuzzle?

[canuck4570]

OK I do believe you I shoot 450 and 4570 with 550 gr. at that velocity

but a 308 won't be that effective

nice sharp rifle my dream of owning one

[sharpsguy]

My 45-70 with a 480 grain FN bullet at 1242 fps shoots through and through both shoulders of a 2000 pound buffalo. With a 510 grain Govt bullet at 1200 fps, it shoots end to end through a buffalo from brisket to pelvis. I have taken kudu, black and blue wildebeast, and springbuck at distances in excess of 300 yards on the laser. There is NO hold over at these distances with a Sharps. You simply set the ladder sight for the correct distance, take a six o'clock hold, and pull the trigger. I get complete pass through and don't recover bullets as a general rule. Properly loaded with the right bullet, a 45-70, 45-100, or a 45-110 is absolutely effective at 300 yards and 1200 fps.. I consider a kudu, elk, or buffalo a gimme at that distance. I have a lot of this on DVD, so I'm not blowing smoke.

[BrentD]

Don, they don't shed velocity so fast as you think. The rate of velocity loss is less the slower the bullet is. Even at 1000 yds, these bullets are totally lethal to anything. If you ever have the chance to be in the pits at a target match when one comes in and smacks a target frame, you will understand this better.

Anyway, you don't really need that much velocity.

[MT Chambers]

A 45 or 50 cal. boolit weighing from 500 to over 600grs. at 1200 fps is very different then from a .308.

[BrentD]

you can be well under 500. Shooting 600 really isn't done with .45s that I'm am familiar with. 1900 just isn't needed, even in a 30.

How fast was the original .30-30 loads?

[BrentD]

yup. learn to crank.

[canuck4570]

I have a rugger no 1 in 4570 that was modified to take a scout scope Burris 2.75x and ad the reticle modified by burris in a ballistic plex
after some practice with it with a 500 gr. round nose at 1300 fps I could with the help of my laser range finder hit anything the size of a 2 litter milk jug
just a matter of choosing the correct line in the scope

[canuck4570]

but pratice keep the odds of loosing a game with a good hit….

[BrentD]

It is only practice if you intend to actually do it in real time. If you are going to shoot heavy, slow bullets, you do have to learn that there is more to shooting that jerking triggers. It is not hard, but it does take some learning, practice, patience, and skills. Only you can decide if it is worth it for you. For me, it is the only way I'm interested in hunting.

[Digital Dan]

Mostly with Brent on this. Lead doesn't need speed, but like all bullets proper placement is required.