.45-70 necked down to .416? .375? .35?

[44minimum]

Any of you guys been curious enough about necking down the good old 45-70 to a smaller diameter to actually try it? I'm quite certain there is someone out there crazy enough to do it or that has experimented with it already. Can one of you point me towards some information along this line? I'm awful curious about the ballistics attainable.

[badgeredd]

A man after my own heart!
I haven't tried anything quite like what you are asking about; but I did look up similar wildcats in my reference books. One that is somewhat similar is the 10.6x51 (.40x2) that is listed in "Wildcat Cartridges" published by Wolfe Publishing. It is a belted magnum case necked to .40 caliber. With a 300 grain J bullet, they list 2072 to 2381 fps, and with a 330 at 2088 to 2211 fps and lastly a 400 at 1896 fps.

Also P.O. Ackley lists a wildcat named .40-.348 Improved. It is listed at 1820 to 2200 fps with a 300 grain bullet, which is very close to the same cartridge dimensions as the .45-70 Gov. There is also a .35 and a .375 version of this wildcat. The case head is a bit larger (I think) and it is definitely stronger than the .45-70 case.

Obviously these are both strong action cartridges but goes to show you are close to some pretty mean 4000 foot pound @ the muzzle cartridges.

Good luck with your idea if you proceed with it.

Just looked in Cartridge Conversions and what you propose is also similar to the .40-60 WCF, .40-70 Peabody "What Cheer", and the .40-70 Remington ( although the last is longer) along with 3 or 4 even longer cartridges,

[Ricochet]

Winchester long ago necked down the .45-70 to .333", making the .33 Winchester. A little below your range. I'm sure the other versions have been done by someone.

[JeffinNZ]

Just buy a .40-65 and be done with it.

[Hayfield]

It's been done already. In 1887. It's called a 38-56. Check out Mike Venturino's info on it. If I remember correctly, it was Liver Eat'n Jones' last caliber before he died. (Not that I was there of course) It's a good hunting cartridge in the 86 Win but it's a terrible silhouette/target round in a single shot. (My opinion)

[Firebird]

Winchester made the 38-56 and 40-65 from the 45-70 case, but I believe most of the wildcatting has been on the larger 50-110/348 Winchester case, i.e. the 416, 450 and 50 Alaskan cartridges.

[Wayne Smith]

Sharps put out the 40-70BN, I have one. 400 gr boolit.

[Glen]

Frank Barnes did the .416/.45-70 back right before he died. It was written up in Handloader back in the 90s. As I recall, he did two rifles, one Marlin levergun and one bolt gun (Siamese Mauser?). Off the top of my head, I don't recall what kind of ballistics he was getting out these guns, but I do recall that he was very pleased with the results.

[Dark Helmet]

.411 JDJ and .35 Win also?

[MakeMineA10mm]

Frank Barnes did the .416/.45-70 back right before he died. It was written up in Handloader back in the 90s. As I recall, he did two rifles, one Marlin levergun and one bolt gun (Siamese Mauser?). Off the top of my head, I don't recall what kind of ballistics he was getting out these guns, but I do recall that he was very pleased with the results.

Glen, you beat me to it! :drinks:

It's also got a full-page (extra-large) write-up in Frank Barnes "Cartridges of the World" (7th Edition). He reports he got over 2100fps with 400gr bullets. There's a couple loads with cast boolits as well. Pretty powerful stuff! Only 250-300fps behind a real elephant gun, but out of a lever-action...:twisted:

[Firebird]

.411 JDJ and .35 Win also?

35 Winchester is the middle member of the 30-40 and 405 Win family for the model 1895 rifles; not based on the 45-70 case at all; (perhaps you are thinking of the 33 Winchester, the only smokeless powder factory cartridge on the 45-70 case). I don't know what case the 411 JDJ is based on.

[badgeredd]

Glen, you beat me to it! :drinks:

It's also got a full-page (extra-large) write-up in Frank Barnes "Cartridges of the World" (7th Edition). He reports he got over 2100fps with 400gr bullets. There's a couple loads with cast boolits as well. Pretty powerful stuff! Only 250-300fps behind a real elephant gun, but out of a lever-action...:twisted:

That is where I saw it. After posting what I could find, I had a nagging feeling I'd read about a very similar wildcat somewhere else. Thanks for the insight.

[Glen]

The .411 JDJ is based on the .444 Marlin case.

[Ron Coleman]

While I was loading some 45-70's for my H&R I came across some 45-70 MKI 1943 WCC fired brass that had been squeezed down ( constant taper) to a neck size .391 ID.
What do you suppose they were ment to be?

RonC

[Ricochet]

Priming tubes for artillery.