Gus's Gun?

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Just started reading Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove and got to the part where it describes Augustus McCrae's pistol as a "Colt Dragoon with a 7" barrel." Anyone know which model dragoon McMurtry had in mind? I know Robert Duvall in the miniseries carries a Colt 1847 "Walker" but just curious to know what was used in the book.

[Mk42gunner]

Artistic license?

Cut off barrel?

Off the top of my head, I think all the Dragoons had 7½ or 8" barrels stock. I'm not all that sure, but I seem to remember the Walker having a 9" barrel and reading the Dragoons had a ¼" shorter cylinder and a 1½" shorter barrel.

Robert

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Artistic license?

Cut off barrel?

Off the top of my head, I think all the Dragoons had 7½ or 8" barrels stock. I'm not all that sure, but I seem to remember the Walker having a 9" barrel and reading the Dragoons had a ¼" shorter cylinder and a 1½" shorter barrel.

Robert

Well at least the Uberti reproductions of the first model Dragoons on through the Whitneyville model all have 7-1/2" barrels.

[45 Dragoon]

Yap, 7 1/2" . Guess that half inch made it it just a taaaaad too long! Lol!! (That Gus musta beena picky feller!!!)

Just for the heck of it (not being too picky myself), Whitney's were the first Dragoons of the Dragoon series. So, from the Whitneyville through the 3rd model.


Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Just for the heck of it (not being too picky myself), Whitney's were the first Dragoons of the Dragoon series. So, from the Whitneyville through the 3rd model.

Thank you for the correction/information.

I am inclined to think the missing 1/2" of barrel is do to the author and not meant to indicate a custom barrel.

What would a post civil war retired Texas Ranger likely have owned?

[Mk42gunner]

My understanding is that Colt only made ~1100 Walkers, with 1000 going to the Army; so that leaves them very uncommon in civilian hands.

The various Dragoons were from I think 1850 on, I do not know if Colt continued making them after the 1860 Army came out or not.

It has been a long time since I read the book so I don't remember the details, but my guess is the most common .44 cal C&B revolvers in the immediate postwar era were either 1860 Colts or Remingtons.

There were immense technical advances in that decade and a half, so it could have been anything.

Robert

[2ndAmendmentNut]

My understanding is that Colt only made ~1100 Walkers, with 1000 going to the Army; so that leaves them very uncommon in civilian hands.

Pretty sure the 1000 Walkers went to the Texas Rangers. That would make them rare for a civilian, but likely for Gus seeing as he is supposed to be a retired Ranger.

[bubba.50]

Larry McMurtry was a hell of a western author but didn't know beans about guns. if you'll notice, he also has Gus usin' a Henry rifle & out-shootin' a buffalo hunter with a Sharp's at hundreds of yards 'cause he misunderstood the use of the term "firepower" to describe the Henry. in the case of the Henry firepower means it'll shoot a bunch of times not that it'll outshoot the Sharp's at about 1/4 mile range.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Larry McMurtry was a hell of a western author but didn't know beans about guns. if you'll notice, he also has Gus usin' a Henry rifle & out-shootin' a buffalo hunter with a Sharp's at hundreds of yards 'cause he misunderstood the use of the term "firepower" to describe the Henry. in the case of the Henry firepower means it'll shoot a bunch of times not that it'll outshoot the Sharp's at about 1/4 mile range.

Good point. McMurty is one hell of an author. While there are a few gun mistakes I am pleased to see he really tried to do his homework and I have yet to notice any gun anachronisms.

[dondiego]

One of my all time favorite series. I would really like to read the book.

[curator]

Lonesome Dove is certainly McMurtry's best book, and I have read them all. On historical gun accuracy he is "not bad" but definitely not exactly correct. Robert DuVall's character "Gus" in the TV mini series carried a Walker Colt cartridge conversion. No doubt so the Hollywood guys could load it for him with their standard "5 in 1 blank" cartridges which are the film industry cowboy standard. Historically, it would not been out of character for a retired Texas Ranger to have a Colt 1847 Walker (or a .36 Paterson Colt for that matter), but in his book Mc Murtry specifically claims Gus carried a "Dragoon" which is the 1849 Colt Army revolver with a 7 1/2 inch barrel. No surprise that McMurtry dropped the "1/2" from the barrel length. As most of you know, cap & ball revolvers soldiered on well after the Civil War, particularly on the frontier. McMurtry's description of the first cattle drive to Montana is mostly spot on historically as to what difficulties these men faced. His best work! Too bad his books that followed did not keep the high standard he set with this one.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Mc Murtry specifically claims Gus carried a "Dragoon" which is the 1849 Colt Army revolver with a 7 1/2 inch barrel.

Would that be considered a 3rd model Dragoon? Or the 31cal pocket revolver?

[curator]

The 1848 Colt Pocket pistol was known as the "baby dragoon." This gun would not have been taken too seriously on the Texas frontier as an Indian fighting weapon. Since McMurtry did not elaborate, any of the 1989 Colt Army models could be correct. McMurtry's novel took place after the Civil War, and Colt had made more than 18,000 of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd 1849 Army revolvers from 1849 to 1860, and a lot of them ended up in Texas where the story takes place. Not much is to be gained arguing over what a fictional character "might" have used. The Texas Rangers were the first mounted indian fighters to successfully utilize the Colt revolver in combat against the Indians. McMurtry's story portrays their dependance on the Colt revolver for Indian fighting quite accurately despite his inability to accurately describe individual gun models.

[Hellgate]

In reading Vigilantes of Montana, Dimsdale described the weaponry confiscated from a road agents camp: " The result of their search was the capture of seven dragoon and navy revolvers, nine shotguns and thirteen rifles". This was during the 1860s gold rush in Montana where road agents had murdered over 100 travelers and miners in the gold fields of Virginia City and Bannock. Many of the murdered had made their fortunes and were heading back to their families when killed & robbed.

[daleraby]

I work at "Gus's Guns". Had to do a double take!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

His publishers wanted ½ instead of 1/2, and he couldn't be bothered with numerical codes? It would be about typical of authors with firearms.

I would suspect that "dragoon" in its heyday was looked on by many as a term for any non-pocket Colt. It was a much smaller (!) and handier weapon than the Walker, except possibly for the man that has to treat someone's horse as part of the target. It was, understandably, a far more common revolver than the Walker, as you will see if you try to buy one, although the pocket revolvers outsold the belt and holster models.

[salvadore]

Hellgate, I also read Dimsdale's book 40+ years ago, bought it from the museum up on the hill as you enter Virginia City. I read that he wrote positively about the vigilantes because he was scared to death of them and his book is the only documentation of all the supposed murders that took place. I also read that the vigilantes were feared and dispised by the general population. It should be noted that all the victims of the vigilantes were southerners except sheriff Plummer who may have been getting in the way.

[John Taylor]

Larry McMurtry was a hell of a western author but didn't know beans about guns. if you'll notice, he also has Gus usin' a Henry rifle & out-shootin' a buffalo hunter with a Sharp's at hundreds of yards 'cause he misunderstood the use of the term "firepower" to describe the Henry. in the case of the Henry firepower means it'll shoot a bunch of times not that it'll outshoot the Sharp's at about 1/4 mile range.
Read a book once that talked about the fire power of the Volcanic 41 caliber. Got a big laugh as it only has 28 foot pounds of energy.

[lobogunleather]

My understanding is that Colt only made ~1100 Walkers, with 1000 going to the Army; so that leaves them very uncommon in civilian hands.

The various Dragoons were from I think 1850 on, I do not know if Colt continued making them after the 1860 Army came out or not.

It has been a long time since I read the book so I don't remember the details, but my guess is the most common .44 cal C&B revolvers in the immediate postwar era were either 1860 Colts or Remingtons.

There were immense technical advances in that decade and a half, so it could have been anything.

Robert

Most manufacturers, including Colt's, would have continued production of earlier models until all parts on hand were used up. Colt's factory suffered a devastating fire along about 1863 or so, resulting in about a year's interruption in all production as well as the loss of inventory and parts on hand, thus I think it likely that Dragoon production ceased completely at the time of that fire (if not before).

Another effect of that fire was that Remington was awarded a contract for its New Army model to meet Civil War needs. The War Department was a bit put out about that because the Remington revolvers cost $0.50 more than the Colt 1860 Army model.

For those unfamiliar with the term "dragoon" it refers to mounted infantry troops. Horses were used for movement to the battlefield, then the troops dismounted and engaged as infantry "foot soldiers". This is a distinction between the dragoons and the cavalry, which engaged as mounted troops and were used mostly for scouting, patrols, and rapid maneuver tactics in battle.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Larry McMurtry was a hell of a western author but didn't know beans about guns. if you'll notice, he also has Gus usin' a Henry rifle & out-shootin' a buffalo hunter with a Sharp's at hundreds of yards 'cause he misunderstood the use of the term "firepower" to describe the Henry. in the case of the Henry firepower means it'll shoot a bunch of times not that it'll outshoot the Sharp's at about 1/4 mile range.

Can't remember if they highlight it in the miniseries, but in the book Gus is noted for his remarkably sharp eyesight and coolness in a fight. Both eyes and nerves are far more important then caliber.

[bubba.50]

with a Henry goin' up against a Sharp's he ain't gonna outshoot a seasoned buffler hunter at 1/4 mile i don't care how good his eyesight or how cool under pressure he was. those ol' boys routinely shot buffs at ranges measured in the fractions of miles.