My new to me .54 cal Ardesa Spain BP Muzzle loader

[crackerjack57]

I am new to Muzzle loading and need some advice. I shoot BP in my 45-70 so not new to BP just needing some guidance. I bought an older Ardesa Spain .54 cal Hawken style rifle. after refinishing it and making it Uniquely me i bought Balls, pre lubed patches, grabbed some 2F and off to the range. i need to look at the box of round balls that I bought for size and will mike out the patch thickness but anyway......... it wasn't fun. i could start the ball, much effort to get the ball the first 4" to the end of the starter ball reach and then the fun began. i was wailing on the loading rod so hard that one of the times i completely pulled the loading rod out of the barrel and while down swinging now not having a proper back stop.......... well the barrel became the backstop to the bone in my palm connected to my pinky that broke. it will heal. anyway, what should my ball size and patch thickness roughly be?

.558 grove diameter, .542 bore diameter.

also, after getting the ball roughly 10" down the barrel things started to go easy. getting the ball the rest of the way was with minimal effort. is this normal?


167854
this is before.

this is after...

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[Edward]

I don"t think you mentioned ball dimension but I cast 53 and 53.5 for my TC54 with 10 thou linen patch ,the 53.5 needs help /the 53 goes nice and they both shoot good !

[725]

.530 ball with a normal patch or a .535 ball with a thin patch. With all your troubles, go with a .530. Experiment with patch size to get the best accuracy. It should load firmly but not so hard that you injury yourself or break the ram rod! If the bore is rough, you might want / have to lap it with something like "Flitz" or similar grinding compound. It should be smooth and uniform all the way. You didn't mention your load, but I'd start out with 60 or 70 grains and see how it goes. If the original owners manual is still available, get it. Do a computer search.

[mooman76]

Yes 530 ball to start. You had this much trouble on the first one. The next will be a little tighter. You might even need to do smaller on the ball. What size(thickness) patch were you using?

[crackerjack57]

I checked my ball and patch diameters. .535 ball diameter and .013 thickness patch.
Does anyone know if this barrel could be choked?

[mooman76]

When you first start balls or conicals, they generally loosen up after they first get started. They get squeezed down some as they start in the first few inches.

[dondiego]

That is way too hard to load! You should be able to start the patch and ball with your finger and not need a short starter. I would reduce ball diameter and patch thickness until it loads way easier and go from there.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

a firm push should be about all the tighter you need to go with a patch maybe a pop on the short starter with the heal of your hand but after the first 1/2 inch it should slide down with just firm pressure or you need to go smaller with the patch

I run a fairly tight pillow ticking patch at about .017 with a .490 ball in my 50cals and my 45cals I don't have a 54 but .010 under with a .010 to .020 thick patch most of the time around .015

there was a guy a t a local rondy that had patches cut from different thickness fabric from .010 .012 .015 .017 they were a buck a bag , it was worth it to toss a 5 in the can and try a bag of each and find out what worked best in that gun.

[Buckshot Bill]

Sounds like a rough bore to me. I use a .530 ball and .015 patch. If you want accuracy you want a combo that is tight enough you need to pop it in with a short starter as GREEN stated. But after you have it started it should slide down with moderate pressure. I have never achieved acceptable accuracy from a combo you can just shove in the bore with finger pressure.

[Fly]

Man you did a great job, refinishing it. I really like the leaf on the rear stock. Color is also
very nice. Good job!

Fly

[dualsport]

What's the twist?

[dondiego]

Sounds like a rough bore to me. I use a .530 ball and .015 patch. If you want accuracy you want a combo that is tight enough you need to pop it in with a short starter as GREEN stated. But after you have it started it should slide down with moderate pressure. I have never achieved acceptable accuracy from a combo you can just shove in the bore with finger pressure.

And that is why I stated it is where I would start. I rarely use a short starter and get fine accuracy.

[daleraby]

Guessing its a used gun. Most of those have pitted bores and in general, the further down the bore you go, the looser the fit... not by design, but by corosion taking its course. In an extreme case, you can have a dangerously coroded breach and not even know about it. Normally rifles are not choke bored, and muzzleloading rifles are NEVER choke-bored. If you want to find out, a gunsmith will have a bore gauge and he can tell you bore diameter at the muzzle and the breach. Another device called a bore scope will allow you to actually look at the surface inside the bore. I've never been brave enough to look in one of those as I know none of my rifles has a mirror-smooth finish inside its bore.
I have successfully used 0000 grit steel wool and 800 grit wet dry sandpaper on top of a cylindrical jag with a patch on it for lapping. Flitz and similar products work well, but if the bore is exrtremely rough, you probably need to start with something more coarse. Don't forget the lubricant... and it should be an oil, not a grease for this kind of operation.

I have a few rifles with tight bores. What I generally do is put the ball and patch on the muzzle in the correct position, then put that little quarter-inch starter nub on the ball and give it a sharp rap with my fist... but maybe you want to wait until your pinky heals up first. Some will use a wooden mallet. Once the ball and patch are in the bore, you should be able to use the longer rod on the ball starter to get it six inches or so down the bore. By this point, the ball will have been swaged to fit the bore and you should be able to use your ramrod with no major effort to seat the ball down on the powder charge.

Very important to get the ball seated firmly on the charge. If you don't, you don't got a gun, you got a pipe bomb that you are setting off right next to your face. Normally this happens when you have been shooting a while using some kind of petroleum based patch grease and the bore has been fouled. It can be so difficult to load that you may think its seated when it isn't. That's why some of us mark the ramrod for our favorite loads.

I know its non traditional, but after I got used to the idea and started shooting my QLA'd T/C Hawken, I decided that it was maybe not as bad an idea as I had at first thought. There have also been "false muzzles" that are used for loading and then removed before shooting... kind of the same effect. Hornady still markets their Great Plains conicals that have a smaller diameter at the base to facilitate bullet starting. The theory is that the hollow base expands like a Minnie ball to seal the bore when it is fired. I have some of these on order to facilitate my SBMLR (short-barreled muzzle-loading rifle), but have never used them before. In my experience conical bullets load easier than patched balls do. Your mileage may vary.

[crackerjack57]

Thanx all for the tips and thanx for the props on the refinishing of the rifle. the flag that I inlet on the stock is a Canadian flag but instead of the red and white i went with black as the black go's better with the color scheme. i think down the road that black will become red.

as for smaller round balls, I ordered some .530 round balls from cabela's. i can shove them into the barrel and they just barely roll down to the breach end and back. I think this will yield with better results. so thanx for those tips. im wondering if I could use up those .535 round balls with a patch behind the ball of some sort?? I measured the thickness of my patch material and its all around .011-.013" or does anyone have tips on where to readily get a thinner patch material as I am without any ideas on such an animal. I think however that the .530 sized round balls will fix the issue.
As for the bore, I did send a light down the barrel. the barrel looks very nice with very good pronounced rifling. in fact i wonder if this rifle had more then 50 shots down the barrel before i bought it