Hard to size bullets

[Black Chrome]

Hello everyone. I finally took the plunge on Sunday and cast my first bullets. Lee 158-358 mold. WW and range lead mix alloy and I water dropped them. I have been powder coating bullets that a friend from work cast and sized so I knew I wanted to powdercoat my own bullets as well. What I ran into with the lee push through sizing die is that these were really hard to push through. It took a lot of force on some of them. These were raw bullets no lube or powdercoat. After sizing I PC them and sized them again. These all pushed through like butter. How are you guys sizing before PC and not having any issues? I know the lee sizer says to use lube but that is counter productive to PC in the next step. Any advise? Thanks!

[rancher1913]

why are you sizing twice, cast-coat-size-load. as long as your cast boolit is not way to big works fine.

[birdadly]

Your raw bullets could be leaving lead in your sizer and shrinking it; I believe that's why you're supposed to lube them. Have you measured one after sizing to check?

Maybe your mold is dropping them too big and you're trying to size down too much? What's your original size and size you're sizing to?

I do like Rancher said, cast, PC, size and load. Works well for a lot of us. -Brad

PS, congrats on your first cast! It's an awesome hobby!

[OS OK]

Are you water dropping because you intend them for a .357 and high pressure?
If not and they are for a .38 Special, you have sufficiently hard cast from that mix already. Size is everything anyway.
Some hard or too big cast need lube before sizing then wash it off before PC'ing. That's if your casting/sizing/PC'ing/sizing/loading. Some of us do.
Some Lee push through sizers need some polishing inside also to get them smooth.

Try to indicate exact measurements when you have problems…use your mike or calipers, makes it easier for the fellas to figure when trying to help you…OS OK

[dragon813gt]

Bullets need to be lubed beforehand when using a push through sizer. It's no wonder they are hard to size. PC them first and then size. You shouldn't have any issues this way.

[blackthorn]

Try sizing wet. Use a bit of dishwashing liquid in water and run them on through. The soap and water should rinse off a lot easier than trying to remove most conventional lubes.

[dogmower]

did you mike the boolits after casting? mold could be too big, out of spec, etc.
I cast, then PC, then size, no lube. Unless i'm trying to reduce diameter more than .005 or so, usually little resistance.

[runfiverun]

stop water dropping them and use a little dish soap.
if that don't help they are waay big.

[drifterdon]

Seems like they need something to slick them up other than just bare lead.

[tja6435]

I use a qtip and froglube inside the lee die to allow hard/fat boolits to slide through much easier. I've also use Hornady One Shot and it works as well. You'll have to reapply the lube to the die as needed

[mdi]

Measuring is a large part of troubleshooting. Measurments/facts are needed to start correction in a specific direction. Mike your bullets...

[gpidaho]

I always size before and after coating. This is a good way to sort out any boolit that didn't quite fill out when casting. As mentioned, a little dishwashing soap and water mixed make for a good lube that rinses right off. I size some boolits down a large amount but do it in small steps and very rarely use any lube with the Lee push through dies. Gp

[fecmech]

If you are going to continue water dropping, make it a point to size the same day you cast. The bullets will size much easier as they are not fully hardened yet. If for some reason to can't size that day, put the bullets in a freezer till you can, that slows the age hardening process.

[Black Chrome]

Measuring is a large part of troubleshooting. Measurments/facts are needed to start correction in a specific direction. Mike your bullets...
Some dropped at .358 and some others that I checked were .360. I was trying to size before PC because I saw that a lot of people are doing it this way. I water dropped the bullets because they will be loaded in 3 different revolvers. From just .38 special plinking loads all the way up to .357 magnum loads over a stiff charge of H110. I still have a lot to learn.

[TXGunNut]

Congrats on your first cast and yes, there's lots to learn and but it's all good. Be safe, have fun.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Some dropped at .358 and some others that I checked were .360. I was trying to size before PC because I saw that a lot of people are doing it this way. I water dropped the bullets because they will be loaded in 3 different revolvers. From just .38 special plinking loads all the way up to .357 magnum loads over a stiff charge of H110. I still have a lot to learn.
Does your PC process include baking the PC coated boolit ?
If it does, you're basically removing the hardness gained from the "water drop" during casting.

[Black Chrome]

Does your PC process include baking the PC coated boolit ?
If it does, you're basically removing the hardness gained from the "water drop" during casting.
yes I bake them @ 400° for 10 minutes. I just powder coated some then sized them immediately after they were cool to the touch. They went through easily. I guess for some reason I had it in my head that I needed to size before costing for fear that I would be trying to take too much off afterwards and strip the PC off of the driving bands.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

well, my point is, there is no need to water drop if you are going to Bake the PC. Thus making the first sizing (pre-PC) much easier.

[Black Chrome]

I finished powder coating and sizing the rest of the bullets that I already had cast today. Once I got the new batch cooking I would immediately go size the bullets that had just cooled out of the oven. After I got done with all of those I started casting again with the little bit of lead that I had left in my pot. I didn't water drop these. Instead I dropped them on a towel. Once they cooled I powder coated them and then sized them like I had the others. All of these sized just fine. There were a few in the first batch that stripped the PC off of the driving bands but I just melted those down and cast them again. Thanks again for all of the help. I won't be trying to size before powder coating anymore and it doesn't look like I need to be water dropping either.

[OS OK]

You might think about this…they say to cook at 400 degrees for ten minutes…how much of that time is spent bringing that lead mass up to the 400 degrees?…just thinking…so…I run a cold batch of PC'd boolits for 20 minutes, giving them time to come up to the correct temp before the timing of the PC coating. I put an oven rack thermometer in the PC oven to watch how much time it takes for the temp to stabilize at or above 400 degrees…5 or 6 minutes in mine so I rounded it off at 10 minutes to 'come up' so to speak. I have never had PC come off the drive bands in sizing…do you get my drift? If I remember correctly, that 10 minute bake time is suppose to be after the powder gets shiny and starts to melt. That part takes about 3 minutes in my cheapo-chinese-oven.

OS OK

[Walter Laich]

I believe the slow heating and cooling when you bake the PC on negates the hardness you get from water dropping

I do know I tried water dropping 'back in the day' before I started up with PC and they were definitely harder to size.

I do like the fact that folks are always coming up with modifications and I can try them out; keep some, ignore others