Powder magazine -- outdoor

[9w1911]

hey guys quick question, if one were to exceed the allotted county powder storage limits
how would you create outdoor magazine ?

[RPRNY]

Only addressing magazine design: concrete floors and walls sunken in earth (brick would do if you can apply a weather sealant), fairly frail roof, focus on keeping damp out.

[M-Tecs]

No....

[C. Latch]

Store some powder at your neighbor's house?

Kids or parents who'd let you leave a few pounds in their garage?

[dannyd]

The sad thing is how much the fire dept and government don't know. 1 gallon of gas is equal to 60 lbs of powder. Just think about what is in the car in the garage with the 20 gallon tank. 20 * 60 = 1200 lbs.

[dragon813gt]

If you live in an area where the fire code restricts how much you can store in a residence. I would talk to the building code department to find out if an outdoor magazine is even allowed. I'm betting one isn't. If it is they will be able to tell you the requirements for building one.

[Mark Daiute]

I have given this some thought, simply to get the large quantities of powder out of the house. My solution will be a simple framw and board structure made to look exactly like what we called an "outhouse" when I was growing up

[sig2009]

What they don't know won't hurt them.

[country gent]

A true powder magazine has several regulations to comply with. Shelves thickness and capacity inside. I have heard of a 1 hour "burn thru" rating also. construction is supposedly to be weak so no pressure build up can occour. Sides and roof again seale from weather and weakly constructed to minimize pressure build ups. I believe a couple louvered vents high on walls to allow heat to vent escape might be helpfull also. Actually the out house anology probably isnt far off from what is recomended. Securing it to keep nieghborhood kids and other out is a bigger issue. The needed specs can be gotten online or from local fire marshal easy enough.

[ReloaderFred]

The biggest problem would be keeping it cool, since heat is the biggest enemy of powder, other than politicians and fire marshalls, most of whom have no real clue about gunpowder. They will tell you it's an explosive, when it's actually not.

Where I used to live, my best friend was a Battalion Chief for the county fire department, a department with about 1,500+ employees. He's an avid shooter like myself, and knew the stock of powder I kept on hand, which exceeded what the county would allow. His stash also exceeded what the county would allow. I had my FFL at the time and we would order powder together to cut down on the shipping costs. His advice was to simply not volunteer the information that you're a reloader to any of the regulators. We felt it was none of their business, and that they should be much more concerned about the propane tanks we had, since there was no natural gas in that area. The 500 gallon propane tank next to my house worried me much more than the kegs of powder I stored in my shop. And as mentioned by dannyd, gasoline is a much bigger problem than powder. Powder doesn't release fumes that can ignite from the pilot light on a water heater, etc....

Hope this helps.

Fred

[lcclower]

Put it in an Igloo ice chest and if you can bury it above the water table but
deep enough to reach moderate soil temperatures.

[imashooter2]

See 14.3.9

http://hamyarenergy.com/static/fckimages/files/NFPA/Hamyar%20Energy%20NFPA%20495%20-%202006.pdf

Good luck with the permits...

[JSnover]

I keep mine in a working (locked!) refrigerator. And I'm the only person who needs to know what's in there.

[rancher1913]

several gun show merchants use those "knack" boxs like you see on construction sites.

[SciFiJim]

I use an old ice chest with lead ingots on the bottom to act as heat sinks and maintain a more even temp during the day.

The archives on this site are great. This is from 2009.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?56165-Inexpensive-Underground-Powder-Storage

[9w1911]

I would be worried about temp variation, and humidity build up, but I live in the Sierra Nevada it is rather moderate, record high is 99 and the low is -30. Potential for massive snow.

[Garyshome]

powder magazine or root cellar? I could build another small shed out back, without the building dept's knowledge.

[waksupi]

I use an old refrigerator.

[9w1911]

My old lady would kill me if I came home with an old fridge to store powder in and leave it outside for everyone to see haha.

[William Yanda]

I saw one solution utilizing old truck tires to build an underground structure. As I recall, that was in a drier climate than the Finger Lakes.

[JimB..]

Not saying anything is a fine approach if you just want to avoid the regulators, but it probably won't stay a secret if your house burns. Recovering from insurance might prove difficult.

[JSnover]

Not saying anything is a fine approach if you just want to avoid the regulators, but it probably won't stay a secret if your house burns. Recovering from insurance might prove difficult.
Sometimes all you can do is take the chance. Where I live right now, outdoor storage is not an option.

[9w1911]

No one knows I reload, I dont even like people to be able to see my press or bench. I like to have things out of view.
Today I was thinking maybe one of those job boxes like a Rigid may work for the time being.

[starnbar]

The rigid boxes are very stout but they aren't vented high humidity could make a problem for you and a fire could really build up pressure in one with a few pounds of powder.

[M-Tecs]

Not saying anything is a fine approach if you just want to avoid the regulators, but it probably won't stay a secret if your house burns. Recovering from insurance might prove difficult.

If the house burns the evidence is gone with the newer plastic jugs

[dverna]

I like the idea of a root cellar type of structure away from the house. Little chance of a fire and less temperature swings.

I do do worry about insurance not paying a claim so I have no powder in the house. I set up an insulated loading room in a detached garage. BTW, most codes only allow 10k primers. Another item to be concerned about if a fire occurs. And it is easier to exceed that limit.

[imashooter2]

If the house burns the evidence is gone with the newer plastic jugs


That's a pretty big assumption.

[9w1911]

I am around 6000-6500ft so not much humidity, but I see your point. The root cellar can be made pretty easy here I think, I need to Google how to make one, but I would dig it out then frame(I am terrible with wood) a floor and walls.

[9w1911]

My neighbor has about 5 or 6 of those job boxes, one good sized one with a set of good wheels. I am considering asking him for a trade,sale or rental of one of these. I guess I can wheel it into the garage on a hot day.

It is a shame the attached garages cannot be considered detached. haha

For the root cellar I think I want a loader to come shovel it out, then I can frame that in, however I do not expect to be living here past a year, the lady and I were renting and the owner up and sold the house without us knowing so we had to jump on the current one post haste. Now we are eyeing moving back to the old neighborhood.

[JimB..]

I am around 6000-6500ft so not much humidity, but I see your point. The root cellar can be made pretty easy here I think, I need to Google how to make one, but I would dig it out then frame(I am terrible with wood) a floor and walls.

You'd want to use brick, stone or concrete...not worth the effort for a 1 year rental. Wood construction below grade is possible, just not optimal IMHO.

[9w1911]

I am thinking wood outer box with an old fridge laid down inside, line the hole with plastic, lay down the plywood frame and then drop the fridge in.

[JimB..]

I am thinking wood outer box with an old fridge laid down inside, line the hole with plastic, lay down the plywood frame and then drop the fridge in.

Oh, I was thinking walk in. Unless you really want to bury a fridge you might find it easier to handle cheap coolers.

[9w1911]

I would much rather bury coolers hahaha

[Bonz]

167863

[smokeywolf]

I like it! Just a little obvious though. I'm thinking when the gov't types or those global police types with the blue helmets decide to confiscate anything that might pose a threat to the public well-being (read, anything that might be of value or allow you to resist being conscripted as slave labor), they're gonna open that up first.

[9w1911]

Hahah I plan on hiding it. :)

[9w1911]

The hoard has moved :) secure location, concrete floors. Not totally what I wanted, but you would really have to work to find it, and you cant just stumble upon it.

[JimB..]

The hoard has moved :) secure location, concrete floors. Not totally what I wanted, but you would really have to work to find it, and you cant just stumble upon it.

So now it's a geocaching challenge for us all?

[leeggen]

Just a thought, (yes I know) one could auger a hole drop in a linerpvc plastic whatever then put your powder in a smaller pvc pipe and cap both ends. Drop the smaller inside the larger and cap the larger alsothen cover back with dirt. Nice dry inside area and with pvc inside pvc water would not be a bother nor would temperature as long as you keep it a foot under surface. A person could also store guns or such just adjust pipe size. This is being done on scale to preppers storing food.
CD

[RogerDat]

Normal shed, section of floor you can remove storage in cooler(s) inside whatever seems like an appropriate underground construction for storing a cooler in your area. Make sure you provide for adequate drainage for your area and weather.

You might look into these Styrofoam concrete forms. They would provide a lot of insulation R value and do a good job of sealing out moisture with a coat of sealant. With a good part of it buried and sides brought up to even with the shed floor with wood top. Weaker wood top than sides so it becomes a tube pointed straight up if the powder blows. Which I think is better than blowing outward. Buried concrete wrapped in Styrofoam is going to be very temperature stable especially with part of it under earth. If you wanted you could even use coolers inside for extra insulation and to keep the pistol and rifle separate.

http://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/concrete-cement-masonry/concrete-forms/fox-blocks-straight-block-with-4-core-insulated-concrete-form/p-1444423371782-c-5653.htm?tid=-681382394678432392

[9w1911]

Yes a shed is necessary for my life moving forward.

[RogerDat]

Yes a shed is necessary for my life moving forward. I made a shed in part to store lead stash in, ended up with a bunch of stuff from the garage in the shed so I had room for the lead in the garage. Sweet eh?

[mold maker]

For a year temporary storage, I'd drill/dig the hole for insulated container and cover with a urethane foam well cover. Low cost, dry, fairly temp stable and easy to remove when you leave.
I think most are over thinking this.

[9w1911]

Agree

[Idz]

get the real info on storage at:

http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/SAAMI_ITEM_200-Smokeless_Powder.pdf

As many have already stated the energy available in gunpowder is less than many common household items.

[Echale3]

I have a reloading shack out back behind the garage that has some woodworking tools in it and all my reloading/bullet casting stuff. I have probably 30# or thereabouts of powder stored there, as well as the primers. I keep all that stuff in cabinets that I snagged from in our house when we were doing some remodeling.

[NavyVet1959]

How many pounds of powder are you talking about? A 55 gallon plastic (open top type) drum can hold quite a bit...

[9w1911]

How many pounds of powder are you talking about? Hey hey lets pump the brakes there. :)

Drums would work great.

[smokeywolf]

Better have a batch of insulation or your likely to end up with condensate inside your drum.

[NavyVet1959]

Better have a batch of insulation or your likely to end up with condensate inside your drum.

But if your powder containers are sealed well, the powder will still be dry.

I like to use 2-liter soda bottles for things that I want to keep dry (e.g. sugar, corn meal, rice, etc).

[smokeywolf]

I think just for peace of mind I'd throw a few good sized desiccant packs in.