quiet hunting

[roundgun]

Any hunters out there use a suppressor? Or do you use quiet loads, close to subsonic.

[dk17hmr]

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/image_zps7crk4oq8.jpeg (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/dk17hmr/media/image_zps7crk4oq8.jpeg.html)

I'll shoot small game with anything, this jack was with my 22-250 pushing an 80grain bullet at 3150fps. The only way I'm using sub sonics for hunting big game is if it's at least 45 caliber and 300+ grains.

[Digital Dan]

Any hunters out there use a suppressor? Or do you use quiet loads, close to subsonic.

Yes and yes. Hogs.

[MT Gianni]

The few times I have hunted game with multiple tags it has made no difference. When an antelope drops, IME the herd is off and running. I have shot multiple whitetail on one occasion and they did not no where I was due to fog not noise. I was opposite on a hillside 125 yards away and they were confused. If you hit with the first shot the noise doesn't play any factor. I believe the whine of a bullet missing and impacting frightens them as much or more than muzzle blast.

[shoot-n-lead]

The few times I have hunted game with multiple tags it has made no difference. When an antelope drops, IME the herd is off and running. I have shot multiple whitetail on one occasion and they did not no where I was due to fog not noise. I was opposite on a hillside 125 yards away and they were confused. If you hit with the first shot the noise doesn't play any factor. I believe the whine of a bullet missing and impacting frightens them as much or more than muzzle blast.

I agree with this...seen to many stand still at the shot and no really know what to do.

Suppressors might have a place in legit hunting...but it may be more applicable to poaching.

[BK7saum]

I use a suppressor on 30 caliber and under rifles sometimes. Makes them hearing safe. I have shot pigs and deer with 300 whisper subsonic and the sound of the boolit impacting is LOUD and frightens them just as much as the boom of an unsuppressed rifle does. The blackout is a bolt action and loaded with a light boolit and fast pistol powder is just about Hollywood quiet.

I posted here last fall about my daughter getting her first deer with this rifle. She was using a 125 sst at 2350 fps. It is super nice to be able to whisper to her when she is lining up a shot and know that shooting the rifle is still hearing safe.

[M-Tecs]

Suppressor work very well when shooting prairie dogs. Spooks them less than without suppressors so you get more shooting. I don't own one but I a have shot with a buddy that has one on his 223. With the sonic boom from the bullet and the suppressor the report it seems to spoke them about the same as a 17HMR with no suppressor.

[BigMagShooter]

suppressors are legal in some states, more to help the hunters preserve their hearing than anything else.

poaching? really? most of europe it's considered RUDE to hunt without a muffler.

I wish americans had the same view on suppresors as europe does. Meaning, no extra tax, no tough regulation to own or buy and no 'stereo type' on suppressors, like 'only for assassins an poachers'.

well at least that's my thoughts on them.

i personally would like to get one to use for hunting, just can't afford it at the moment.

[MT Gianni]

In MT the fish and game is against suppressors as they feel it makes their job harder if they cannot follow the shots.

[Mica_Hiebert]

In MT the fish and game is against suppressors as they feel it makes their job harder if they cannot follow the shots.

Fish and game is an extortion scam! Of coarse it makes them upset if something makes it harder for them to Harass people and fine them.

[taco650]

The only time I want a suppressor on anything it at the range. In the field I hardly hear my shots as it is. After I shot my deer this year with my 30-06, I remember thinking how much quieter it was out in the woods than it was when I sighted it in LOL!

However, I wish they weren't so restricted to own.

[dragon813gt]

I agree with this...seen to many stand still at the shot and no really know what to do.

Suppressors might have a place in legit hunting...but it may be more applicable to poaching.

Poaching......really? You'd think we would have moved way past this propaganda point from 1934. Suppressors are PPE and should be treated as such. The report is still plenty loud. But anything you can do to reduce the decibels is great for your hearing.

If they were removed from the NFA you would see a good majority of hunters adopting them. Especially w/ current factory offerings coming w/ threaded barrels.

[Smoke4320]

Yes I hunt deer with a suppressor for several years now.. Love it ..
Killed em both sonic and subsonic..
Wish I could have for the last 40 years ..if so might not have damaged my hearing
An interesting trick I have used several times hunting large fields .. I have shot Over deer that were across a large field. The sound will bounce off the tree line and the deer will run towards me giving me a much closer shot

My favorite right now is a 300 Blackout bolt gun , NOE 247 HP soft lead Pc'ed at 1425 FPS 100 yds or less and they are DRT
impact sounds like hitting a baseball bat against a building

[nekshot]

doesn't do diddly squad for poachers in my area as poaching is a red neck right! I do think any time we can reduce sound around urban area or when too many homes pop up in a country setting it is good for the shooting fraternity.

[HABCAN]

I would dearly LOVE to have suppressors on ALL my firearms, both for MY hearing AND as a courtesy to others. I think the shooting sports would gain a lot more general acceptance if they made a lot less NOISE that disturbs (scares?) non-shooters. "We have the technology......................!" And yes, OP, I use a lot of quieter midrange loads. Ninety percent of 'shooting' does NOT require a Loudenboomer.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

suppressors are legal in some states, more to help the hunters preserve their hearing than anything else.

poaching? really? most of europe it's considered RUDE to hunt without a muffler.

I wish americans had the same view on suppresors as europe does. Meaning, no extra tax, no tough regulation to own or buy and no 'stereo type' on suppressors, like 'only for assassins an poachers'.

well at least that's my thoughts on them.

i personally would like to get one to use for hunting, just can't afford it at the moment.

I must be in some other Europe. I know there are Scotlands in at least five American states, and it is nice to be appreciated.

In the UK a suppressor requires a variation to the firearm licence, which used to be quite difficult to get, for anybody but a farmer or pest exterminator. Then legislation was passed on industrial and farm working conditions, which said that a very wide range of equipment had to be usable without hearing protection, and not harm the operator's hearing. They realized they might be sued for forcing hearing loss on people, and now will practically press the things into our hands, with no apparent effect on crime.

But only a small minority use them for hunting, and being considered rude for not doing so is an amazing notion. It certainly can't be any ruder than the far more common use of shotguns.

[Grampo]

Just made my first Form 1 can. I got a custom mould made for a 195gr .279 bullet for my 6.8 spc. I'm looking to start shooting pigs with them come summer/fall. Still have to load test and see if they will cycle the AR-15. Just have to get through all the spring kid's birthday parties and I can get back out and shoot!

[Digital Dan]

Grampo, when you get around to it, try some Li'l Gun or SR4759. The Sneezer project I'm working uses a case capacity (loaded) which is within a very short step of equivalent to the BO. I'm getting 1025 fps with 6.4 grains of LG and 1050 fps with 7.8 grains of 4759. Both loads are in the MOA ballpark with a 183 grain 30:1 alloy bullet...with a red dot sight. I doubt seriously that the load will cycle an AR.

On point of the OP, and in light of some of the responses, I offer the following comments. It is entirely possible that adolescent mentalities should not play with grown up toys. Application of conventional metrics for hunting rounds is a poor basis for condemning use of a suppressor and subsonic loads for hunting and bespeaks of ignorance. If one is inclined to follow this path there are several things that need to be understood.

-Precision of placement is not only the key to a quick kill, it is the only thing relevant to the task.
-Expect no expansion of your bullet. See the first item.
-You must know your quarry, quite literally inside and out.
-You must know the ballistic characteristics of your round within its effective range. Drops and wind are profoundly important. See the first item.
-You must have the discipline to wait for the right point in time for the shot, and the strength to NOT pull the trigger when you have doubt. The latter is the more important of the two.

The factors above are my personal mantra on the topic, and they work. So far, they work 100% of the time. Since 2005 I've put down over 100 hogs with subsonic rounds and quite a number of pests. One of the hogs required a second shot (see the third item), but the others have all been one shot drops. If one wishes to pursue this, take the time to know what you're about, what the capabilities of you and your gun are and the layout of the plumbing of your quarry. It is, at one time, simple, trying and rewarding.

If you can't be bothered to do these things then suppressors, subs and quiet may not be your cup of tea, but don't think for a second it isn't a viable approach to hunting.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/pig%20pen/DSCN3597_zps969347ea.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/pig%20pen/DSCN3597_zps969347ea.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/Sneezer/800X-3_zpsbn9jap3b.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/Sneezer/800X-3_zpsbn9jap3b.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/Sneezer/Sneezer%205_zpsnfujhrsr.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/Sneezer/Sneezer%205_zpsnfujhrsr.jpg.html)

[BK7saum]

Hey very nice and well thought-out write-up regarding hunting with subsonic ammunition and suppressors. I would just like to Echo the fact that again shot placement is the only thing that matters. Knowing yardage to the target is very important because most subsonic ammunition will drop about 7 to 8 inches at 100 yards from a 50-yard zero.

I use a 75 yard zero which is 1.8" high at 40 yards and 4" low at 100 yards

[white eagle]

The few times I have hunted game with multiple tags it has made no difference. When an antelope drops, IME the herd is off and running. I have shot multiple whitetail on one occasion and they did not no where I was due to fog not noise. I was opposite on a hillside 125 yards away and they were confused. If you hit with the first shot the noise doesn't play any factor. I believe the whine of a bullet missing and impacting frightens them as much or more than muzzle blast.


I have to agree with the noise not really frightening deer
have shot many deer and the others traveling with that
deer did not spook off from the noise

[rosst]

http://images.fishnhunt.co.nz/images/Rossi45/2xanimals.jpg

i use this rifle the most for Goat control with a few Fallow and Red Deer thrown in occasionally using a combination of 197grn. RCBS at 1020fps with a 50yrd zero and 1600fps which luckily zeros at 100yds.
currently has a 3.5-10 Mk4 mildot with M3 dials - very good setup for working around built up areas without scaring people

[shoot-n-lead]

Poaching......really? You'd think we would have moved way past this propaganda point from 1934. Suppressors are PPE and should be treated as such. The report is still plenty loud. But anything you can do to reduce the decibels is great for your hearing.

If they were removed from the NFA you would see a good majority of hunters adopting them. Especially w/ current factory offerings coming w/ threaded barrels.

It is not a "propaganda point"...it is a fact. Poacher's in my area adopted the 22mag YEARS ago to minimize the report of their illegal activity...and I am sure there are plenty of them using suppressors now.

It is ok for you like a suppressor...fine by me, but don't give it the lie, that it is not used in poaching.

[Mica_Hiebert]

It is not a "propaganda point"...it is a fact. Poacher's in my area adopted the 22mag YEARS ago to minimize the report of their illegal activity...and I am sure there are plenty of them using suppressors now.

It is ok for you like a suppressor...fine by me, but don't give it the lie, that it is not used in poaching.

Thats like saying all guns should be more heavily regulated because they are used in illegal activities by a select few... sounds a little left to me...

[dk17hmr]

It is not a "propaganda point"...it is a fact. Poacher's in my area adopted the 22mag YEARS ago to minimize the report of their illegal activity...and I am sure there are plenty of them using suppressors now.

It is ok for you like a suppressor...fine by me, but don't give it the lie, that it is not used in poaching.

It was in the 30s and still is propaganda. There are alot less hoops to jump through to get a crossbow, anyone spending the time and money to get a legal suppressor can see that. Maybe crossbows should be more regulated because someone might use them to kill animals illegally.

[M-Tecs]

It is not a "propaganda point"...it is a fact. Poacher's in my area adopted the 22mag YEARS ago to minimize the report of their illegal activity...and I am sure there are plenty of them using suppressors now.

It is ok for you like a suppressor...fine by me, but don't give it the lie, that it is not used in poaching.

NFA controlled firearms and items used in a crimes tend to make the news. With the internet finding examples should be easy. Anyone have any links to a suppressor being used in a crime or poaching?

[dragon813gt]

NFA controlled firearms and items used in a crimes tend to make the news. With the internet fining examples should be easy. Anyone have any links to a suppressor being used in a crime or poaching?

You'd have to go back before 1934 to look for news articles about it. If it was really an issue they should be all over. The NFA put them out of reach of most until decades later. No firearm owner should bring up poaching when discussing suppressors. It's isn't proven and we should be doing everything to point this out.

[M-Tecs]

From what I have read it wasn't a problem before 1934, however, some believed it might become a problem so it was included in the National Firearms Act of 1934. BS than and BS today!!!!!

[Bangbangman]

I use a moderator for all my hunting: .22LR, .17HMR, .223Rem, .243Win, .308Win, .300Whisper, .284win, 7WSM.

My only guns that aren't threaded for a mod: Marlin 1894 .357Mag, 1894 Cowboy 45Colt, 1895 Cowboy 45-70, Ruger No.1 45-70, Ruger SuperRedhawk .357Mag.

Upside: Better for my ears, controls recoil and muzzle flash, less obtrusive near Joe public, sometimes less obtrusive for quarry. Downside: weight at muzzle, length, corrosion of crown if not removed after use, small risk of mod-clipping.

The only truly "quiet" ones of mine are subsonic .22LR, subsonic homeloads in .308 (180gr over trail boss) and 300Whisper (230gr cast).

For all our stupid UK firearms laws, at least it's not too hard to get a moderator and a 30-40rnd mag!

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i10/xavierdoc/more%20pics/729826E9-A95B-433D-B5D5-C9ECBD065FFA.jpg (http://s68.photobucket.com/user/xavierdoc/media/more%20pics/729826E9-A95B-433D-B5D5-C9ECBD065FFA.jpg.html)

[Smoke4320]

Bangbangman what brand stock is that ?

[Bangbangman]

I think it's an early Magpul UBR

[DanWalker]

It is not a "propaganda point"...it is a fact. Poacher's in my area adopted the 22mag YEARS ago to minimize the report of their illegal activity...and I am sure there are plenty of them using suppressors now.

It is ok for you like a suppressor...fine by me, but don't give it the lie, that it is not used in poaching.



From what I have been told,(by some ex poachers) is the 22 mag is used because a 22lr won't reliably penetrate a deers skull at 100 yards. Suppression for poaching isn't necessary according to them. They told me the first rule for poaching is," never shoot twice."

[44man]

Just to reduce noise on my range for neighbors but for deer? Not needed. Cost is stupid and a new gov't list you are on. Why can't I make a can?

[shoot-n-lead]

From what I have been told,(by some ex poachers) is the 22 mag is used because a 22lr won't reliably penetrate a deers skull at 100 yards. Suppression for poaching isn't necessary according to them. They told me the first rule for poaching is," never shoot twice."

I KNOW the 22lr will not reliably penetrate a deer head...so you have to have something more powerful...generally that would be centerfire...they don't want the noise of centerfire...SO...22mag is an obvious choice. And, poaching in my area, tends to be in certain areas, not spread all around. In these areas...one loud shot can bring someone investigating. I don't need any of you to "agree" with me...I know that suppressors are being used in my area of this world, for poaching. Some have been using an adaptor and a spin-on fuel filter...with the advent of all of this plethora of companies offering them now...they can eliminate the risk of a felony, for a reasonable sum. Your area may be different...

[M-Tecs]

Why can't I make a can?

You can but it still has to be registered. Same for short barrel rifles or shotguns.

https://www.gunandgame.com/threads/legally-making-homemade-silencers.115234/

[M-Tecs]

You are correct I don't agree with you.

When I was a kid I worked at a small town gas station. It was the only one open on weekends. The owner kept a 22 in the wrecker for dispatching deer and cattle hit by vehicles. None of the deer or cattle that I dispatched with the 22 were a problem. Nor was the one horse I dispatched with a 22 pistol. Same for butchering hogs and cattle. For the baloney bulls we did use a 22 Mag.

The property that I used to hunt deer on is a deer rich river bottom. The landowner grow up on the property and as a kid in the 30's, 40's and into the mid 50's he killed a deer a week with 22 to feed the family. If you place it properly a 22 will get the job done. The same land has a shotgun only public game management area next to it. Seeing deer with the lower jaw shot off or half the face mangled by a slug was not uncommon. A 12 gauge slug won't get the job done if you don't place it properly.

I have a friend that is a game warden at the edge of a large metro area. Most poachers he catches are due to the lights and suspicious activity. He did catch a poacher with a cross bow but never a suppressor. Per the game warden most use cheap equipment that is easily pitched without being traceable. Each can is serial numbered plus $200 to the transfer stamp plus another$300 to $700 for the can. Not cheap or untraceable. While I don't doubt that a suppressor has been used by poaches that facts don't support any type of common or widespread abuse.

With registered or unregistered NFA items used in a crime tend to make the news. Where are the reports of suppresser being used in crimes? I did find this one from 1994. I didn't work out very well for them. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.backcountry/HfOuG7IpX_g
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/110/66/527208/

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/05/robert-farago/suppressors-enabled-poaching-debunked/

https://www.arsenalattorneys.com/firearms-blog/hunting-with-suppressors-now-legal-in-34-states This is over a year old. I believe the total is 40 states that allow suppressors for hunting.

[Mica_Hiebert]

I KNOW the 22lr will not reliably penetrate a deer head...so you have to have something more powerful...generally that would be centerfire...they don't want the noise of centerfire...SO...22mag is an obvious choice. And, poaching in my area, tends to be in certain areas, not spread all around. In these areas...one loud shot can bring someone investigating. I don't need any of you to "agree" with me...I know that suppressors are being used in my area of this world, for poaching. Some have been using an adaptor and a spin-on fuel filter...with the advent of all of this plethora of companies offering them now...they can eliminate the risk of a felony, for a reasonable sum. Your area may be different...
actually if these poacher are using the filter adapters and not paying their $200 tax to register them as suppressors they are ensuring themselves an additional felony on top of their poaching charges. I can gurantee almost certainly the same people who are breaking the law poaching are not going to follow the nfa regulations associated with suppressors.

[shoot-n-lead]

actually if these poacher are using the filter adapters and not paying their $200 tax to register them as suppressors they are ensuring themselves an additional felony on top of their poaching charges. I can gurantee almost certainly the same people who are breaking the law poaching are not going to follow the nfa regulations associated with suppressors.

CAN YOU READ? That is what I said in the post..."they can eliminate the risk of a felony"...honestly.

I don't care whether anyone agrees or not...it is done here...in GA...but, it HAS to be the only place in the United States of America that it happens because Y'ALL say that it is not happening ANYWHERE else. And, I am sure y'all know...

[M-Tecs]

How do you "KNOW"? Unless your are personally using a suppressor for poaching or you are with someone poaching with a suppressor you are just guessing as to use. Opinions are opinions. Nothing more. Facts have documentation . Were is your proof?

Have you ever fired a suppressed high velocity rifle? The bullet still makes a supersonic report. Even the very best are still as loud as a 22 pistol. With subsonic ammo they can be very quiet.

Most poachers are caught by methods other than chasing the shot. Again were is the proof like all the news reports of poachers caught with suppressors in this wide spread epidemic??????????????????????????????

[roundgun]

Thanks for all the input gents. some great info here. I am going to try heavy bullets at modest velocity first before investing in a can and tax stamp.

[Mica_Hiebert]

CAN YOU READ? That is what I said in the post..."they can eliminate the risk of a felony"...honestly.

I don't care whether anyone agrees or not...it is done here...in GA...but, it HAS to be the only place in the United States of America that it happens because Y'ALL say that it is not happening ANYWHERE else. And, I am sure y'all know...

Yes I can read! Your saying they can make an illegal silencer which is a felony and use it to keep from getting a felony poaching charge... so when they shoot a fish and game decoy out in a field using a spot light with an oil filter screwed to the barrel of their 22mag the judge is going to let them off the hook I read your post fully and understand it completely!

[M-Tecs]

The adapter mount for the Econ-Can is only $75.00 but it still has to be registered http://www.americanspecialtyammo.com/Class_III.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haiqFcIXTqs

[44man]

It was in the 30s and still is propaganda. There are alot less hoops to jump through to get a crossbow, anyone spending the time and money to get a legal suppressor can see that. Maybe crossbows should be more regulated because someone might use them to kill animals illegally.
Happens here at a neighbors. Shot from a truck, back straps removed and the rest left to rot. Bad apples are all over so they want to regulate EVERYONE.
I think a can should be legal without a fee or paperwork. Sure it will be used to poach but noise never stopped the creeps anyway. They shoot, drive away and come back later to take choice cuts.
Use of anything will not turn a good hunter to a criminal but you will never stop the activity by regulating all of us.
I deer hunt with LOUD revolvers that you can't make quiet and never seen it disturb other deer. Other deer leaving fast depends on the one shot and if it runs. I have dropped deer to have a herd bed near the dead one. Noise reduction is for other people only. I once shot at a deer and rolled a neighbor and his girl friend out of bed! :bigsmyl2:
England is one of the hardest places to get the chance to hunt but they want cans used.
Why would I have to make out paperwork and pay $200 tax to the gov't to be forever on record? I guess the can is more lethal and they know where you are. Would I ever poach with one? WHY? I have free access to much land to hunt. It is those that trash or don't ask that poach.
I seen a truck with young kids cruising the roads looking for deer where they had no permission. Teach the kids to poach, redneck way I guess. Why did they all wear orange?
I love it when robo deer is put out to catch them.

[dk17hmr]

Happens here at a neighbors. Shot from a truck, back straps removed and the rest left to rot. Bad apples are all over so they want to regulate EVERYONE.
I think a can should be legal without a fee or paperwork. Sure it will be used to poach but noise never stopped the creeps anyway. They shoot, drive away and come back later to take choice cuts.
Use of anything will not turn a good hunter to a criminal but you will never stop the activity by regulating all of us.
I deer hunt with LOUD revolvers that you can't make quiet and never seen it disturb other deer. Other deer leaving fast depends on the one shot and if it runs. I have dropped deer to have a herd bed near the dead one. Noise reduction is for other people only. I once shot at a deer and rolled a neighbor and his girl friend out of bed! :bigsmyl2:
England is one of the hardest places to get the chance to hunt but they want cans used.
Why would I have to make out paperwork and pay $200 tax to the gov't to be forever on record? I guess the can is more lethal and they know where you are. Would I ever poach with one? WHY? I have free access to much land to hunt. It is those that trash or don't ask that poach.
I seen a truck with young kids cruising the roads looking for deer where they had no permission. Teach the kids to poach, redneck way I guess. Why did they all wear orange?
I love it when robo deer is put out to catch them.

I agree poachers are going to poach either way.

We were sold out 50+ years before I was born on suppressors and short barrels. I'll be 30 this fall and figure one more list isn't a big deal, so I have two suppressors and a short barreled rifle to make it worth it.

[44man]

They are nice but why are they regulated? It is money and to keep you on record. You must be a bad person to want quiet.

[M-Tecs]

A little history for those interested http://www.westerncriminology.org/documents/WCR/v08n2/clark.pdf