My gun sets off store alarms

[SSBNsquid]

Not sure if this is the correct place to post this. With the changing of the seasons I've gone from carrying my 1911 or Glock 22 to my S&W .38 Bodyguard. Just about every store I walk into I've set off their anti-theft alarms and it happens again when I leave. Usually I play it off but today what I thought was going to be a quick trip to Old Navy to get the kids some shorts turned into me having to explain the bulge in my pocket and show my license and military id to the girl that called me out for shop lifting and then to the manager. At least the manager was understanding if not a little nervous and didn't call the police. But I got a lot of scornful looks from those hippy dippy soccer moms. It also happens at Barnes & Noble, Walmart, and Sears. Does anyone else set off alarms when they carry?

P.S. I'm sure it's the gun. I set the alarms off with and without the pocket holster, with and without the speed strips. I don't seem to have this issue with the Glock or 1911.

[gilgsn]

Hi, I am just guessing here but your gun might be magnetized. I think there are services to demagnetize ferrous metal objects, but don't know any more than that...

Gil

[BigMagShooter]

have the clerk run the "demagnitzer'' tool over your gun, see if that helps.

[tomme boy]

There is a security tag somewhere on the gun.

[w5pv]

My weapon 380 Bodyguard has never set any alarms off.

[osteodoc08]

Check for one of those stick on strips in your holster

[4719dave]

under the grip ?

[500MAG]

^^^what he said

[SSBNsquid]

Under the grip is about the only thing I can think of. Just checked the holster nothing on or in it, other than some pocket lint. I'm gonna have to do some research and see if I can find a degausing kit or something.

[Artful]

Any of the stores should be able to Degauss with same pad they use on the security tags.

[SSBNsquid]

I think I'll go to Sportsmans Warehouse and see if they'll do it. I don't think Barnes & Noble would appreciate me pulling out my pistol and asking them to degause it LMAO.

[bangerjim]

If you have a Weller or similar soldering iron ( the ones with the lights in front and big coils inside) you can de-mag anything with that. TV servicemen back in the golden days of color TV use to use those to degause the CRT. I have a couple watch repairman's de-mag coils I use on stuff I do not want to be magnetic.

Turn it on, bring close to the metal, "scrub" around a little as you back off. Turn off after away from the metal item.

[bdicki]

Why not remove the grips and check for security strip?

[TXGunNut]

There is a security tag somewhere on the gun.


I agree, I think they use some type of RFID sensors and there may be a chip in the gun somewhere. Maybe under the grip?

[SSBNsquid]

I'm going to pull the grips off tonight. I'm too busy right now sitting out in the yard enjoying the sunshine surfing this fine site on my phone and watching the kids play.

[rondog]

I'm going to pull the grips off tonight. I'm too busy right now sitting out in the yard enjoying the sunshine surfing this fine site on my phone and watching the kids play.

Jeeze, it's only one screw.....

[SSBNsquid]

Well I pulled the grips. No tags or anything underneath.

[buckwheatpaul]

Jason, I carry 100% of the time and have yet to set off an alarm......go to Wal-Mart, Tractor Supply, Atwoods, movies....etc....they may be getting more sophisticated in their alarms.....

[leeggen]

It's not the gun, it is his magnetic personality.
CD

[bob208]

I carry a browning hi-power never set off any alarms. but I often thought about it. if you know any one that has a macnine shop that does grinding they had a demagnetizer. I have one in my shop. but we are a little far apart.

[2wheelDuke]

I've never had alarms set off, even when I carried a newer J-frame. I've been through all sorts of stores on and off duty without any issues like that.

[rockrat]

If your gun is magnetic, you might be able to check it with a compass, if you have one of those ancient devices.:)

[45workhorse]

I've never had alarms set off, even when I carried a newer J-frame. I've been through all sorts of stores on and off duty without any issues like that.
Same here!
I usually (read always!) carry a 1911, won't leave home without it.

[Blanket]

I call BS. What set's off store alarms is RFID tags, not metal or guns. And yes I have carried a sidearm for 36 years

[SSBNsquid]

Not BS. The only time the alarms go off is when THAT gun is my pocket.

[OptimusPanda]

You could put the gun in metal box (or similar Faraday cage like device) to remove any possibility of an RFID tag being the cause. Beyond that it has to be the metal if it's the gun at all.

[tomme boy]

Pull the mag apart

[Ballistics in Scotland]

It sounds like it is happening in the sort of stores that don't have much reason to use simple metal detectors. Like airlines, their security procedures are probably secret to some extent. Maybe they want to detect guns.

It wouldn't, by any chance, have been some kind of police or other institutional surplus item? The British army in Northern Ireland used to install undetectable transponders in weapons found in arms caches, and leave them in the hope of giving someone a nasty surprise later. It would make sense if you didn't want your bodyguard choosing a bad day to leave his gun at home.

[2wheelDuke]

Too bad you're not local. I am on pretty good terms with a few different loss prevention departments after responding to their store so many times. They'd have no problem helping narrow down the source of the false alarms. Some of them even have a portable scanner for the anti-theft tags.

[pmer]

Did you buy it used because it set off alarms for the original owner LOL? Try it once with different ammo or empty? Maybe just bring the slide and see if the alarm goes off. Then the receiver ETC.

Divide and conquer, it works for the Left.

[StolzerandSons]

Those aren't metal detectors at the front of MOST store, they are RF/RFID scanners.

Is your holster stitched together? If it is I would guess that you have an RF or RFID sewn into the holster somewhere.
My wife bought a pair of shoes online a couple years ago that had one sewn into them and they would set off the door alarms all the time, it took us a while to figure out what it was specifically. A friendly store manager was nice enough to swipe her with a handheld and find it for us and deactivate it.

If you can't find a manager that will run a hand scanner over it, you could figure it out by a process of elimination.

There are probably a few stores still using magnetic tag detectors but most have converted their inventory to RF/RFID.

[Mica_Hiebert]

http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=74860

[mozeppa]

If you have a Weller or similar soldering iron ( the ones with the lights in front and big coils inside) you can de-mag anything with that. TV servicemen back in the golden days of color TV use to use those to degause the CRT. I have a couple watch repairman's de-mag coils I use on stuff I do not want to be magnetic.

Turn it on, bring close to the metal, "scrub" around a little as you back off. Turn off after away from the metal item.


my dad was a t.v. man ....he had a degauseing coil that was about a foot in diameter.

when color t.v. was in its infancy these were used at the customer's home
because women would play havoc with the color on the screen by vacuuming the carpets right up to the screen.

and once in awhile kids would try sticking their magnet toys to the screen..."oooh, look at the pretty colors i made mommy!"

[flyingmonkey35]

That's odd ball . have a manager or security guard try the fire arm buy itself.

And the holster.

And if the its just the gun that goes off call the manufacturer. They may know something we don't.

Sent from my draconis using Tapatalk

[Hickory]

You may have one of those guns that just comes to life. You know, the one gun in 10 million that comes to life and throws its owner into a trance and goes on a shooting spree. The guns the democrats tells us that kills people.
These guns have been known to set off security alarms at store entrance.
Before this gun puts you into a trance and goes on a shooting spree with your hand attached to it, destroy it as soon as possible. Who knows how many lives will be saved.

[Beef15]

Those aren't metal detectors at the front of MOST store, they are RF/RFID scanners.

Is your holster stitched together? If it is I would guess that you have an RF or RFID sewn into the holster somewhere.
My wife bought a pair of shoes online a couple years ago that had one sewn into them and they would set off the door alarms all the time, it took us a while to figure out what it was specifically. A friendly store manager was nice enough to swipe her with a handheld and find it for us and deactivate it.

If you can't find a manager that will run a hand scanner over it, you could figure it out by a process of elimination.

There are probably a few stores still using magnetic tag detectors but most have converted their inventory to RF/RFID.

I had a sweatshirt that had the RFID strip in between the layers of the hood. Have also had a belt that had the strip between the layers. They've gotten very creative with them. Unfortunately it will drive you nuts trying to isolate the item. I asked many times for loss prevention to check me so I could figure out WTH was going on, they refused, eventually I isolated the items.

If it wasn't under the grip I kinda doubt it's the gun, not much free space and a heck of a lot of effort to put one in the internals, also not an item customers generally have unsupervised access to.

[OS OK]

Those RFID tags have an antenna that resonate with the particular signal that they are being scanned with and actually send back a small signal or attenuate the signal the receiver in the scanning device is set to intercept…this is as best as I can understand this technology. Perhaps a spring in that weapon is the exact length of the antenna in the tags...resembling the corresponding tags those stores use and depending how sensitive each stores unit is determines whether or not you get detected.
At first thought I was thinking that you were sporting a new belt or cell phone case or anything that had one of those tags in it and not deactivated.
But…I wouldn't put it past the HSA, NSA or any of the Alphabet agencies to try and track CCW licensees.

Our world is getting crazy screwed up as each day passes…OS OK

[Hogdaddy]

Tell em to call the "law" Scroom. walk on ; )
H/D

[Handloader109]

Holster is my bet. Not the gun. And not magnetic.

[rockrat]

Long shot, and I am just speculating, but maybe put the holster in the microwave for about 5 seconds. Might "burn out" any RFID chip buried in the holster.

[Bonz]

I would carry just the gun in and let my wife carry just the holster in just to see which one sets off the alarm

[Ballistics in Scotland]

My wife helped me with domestic tidying up once, by putting my small micrometers and some small micrometers in a bowl together with a really vicious neodymium magnet which I bought for making a case neck thickness gauging device to stick to the bedplate of a dial height gauge. So in use I ended up measuring x plus various steel chips. I bought a very cheap electric demagnetizing device on eBay, from China, and it worked fine. Some have a little gate you slip tools through, but I needed one with a little flat bed.

In a spirit of scientific inquiry I tried to see whether it would demagnetize a smaller neodymium magnet. It promptly did a small-scale imitation of an electrostatic rail gun, but both the device and the magnet, when I found it, seem to be unimpaired.

[BigMagShooter]

sure it's not your BELT?

[Walkingwolf]

OP do you have a defibrillator/pacemaker? If you do you can show the staff your card. The frequency, and strength of the wireless in the device can be adjusted. It is strong enough to mess up cell phones, and wireless devices close to the device.

[garym1a2]

I think the barrel an cycl are stainless and the frame is Al. None of which was magnetic. Small internal parts are probably not an issue also.

[koehlerrk]

OK, the store sensors are RFID... Not magnetic.
Having a spring the "right length" isn't the issue. RFID tags don't work like that. They send a radio pulse at a fixed frequency, and they "listen" for a response chirp on a different frequency. Tags a small, thin, and flexible. They are often sewn into the tags on clothing nowadays.

I agree the holster is the likely culprit, but there could be one embedded in the gun somewhere. Underthe grips, molded into the grips, inside the magazine, lots of places one could be hidden.

[Bad Water Bill]

Call S & W and explain your problem.

If they had installed the strip they can tell you how to find and remove the strip.

If they did NOT install it now you need to contact the place you purchased the gun from.

[SSBNsquid]

I'm going to try unstitching the holster this afternoon, thankfully my wife can put out back together for me. If that fails I'll call S&W.

[jakharath]

Gen 2 RFID tags are about 2 cents each, purchased in volume. Before un-stitching, I would take just the holster thru one of the readers that you have set off.

The RFID reader sends out a pulse that is received by the tag. This pulse powers the tag up and it then transmits its data out and the reader receives it. The tags are passive, dumb devices and will send out a number.

[gunoil]

has not happened here at Walmart or 70 other places ive been.

[NavyVet1959]

There was this one store that my wife and I went to many years ago whose alarm would go off when we entered the store. Through the process of elimination, we eventually determined that it was something with her underwire bra. LMAO...

[Blanket]

Funny thing, I have never had a store alarm set off by the handgun(s) I have been carrying. Have been asked what was under my shirt a couple of times, but the asker always became passive when I showed them. IT IS NOT THE GUN

[2ndAmendmentNut]

There was this one store that my wife and I went to many years ago whose alarm would go off when we entered the store. Through the process of elimination, we eventually determined that it was something with her underwire bra. LMAO...

Now that is funny!

[jeepyj]

Wife bought me a new 637 couple Christmases ago, my daughter bought her a new purse off the internet. We would set the alarm off going in and out of Wally well we both though it was my new S&W and after some process of elimination we found a tag in the side compartment of her purse. We both got quite the chuckle from that. Just wondering if you may have purchased some new shoes or a new coat about the same time you started carrying that new sidearm?
I believe like others there a tag somewhere.
jeepyj

[Bad Water Bill]

A friend bought a top of the line pair of Red Wing boots.

Even the store he purchased them from could find the chip or what ever it was that kept tripping the alarm at his nearest Home Depot.

It became a joke there when he entered..

BEEP BEEP

OH OH sounds like Larry is back, "HI LARRY" would echo through out the store.

[David2011]

I used to set off the alarm at a Wally World every time I went through the door. Finally the greeter, a retirement aged gentleman, found a strip in the sweat band of my Stetson.

David

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Curious to hear a follow up from the op.

Ever find out what was tripping the store alarms?

[Outpost75]

There are several types of “loss protection” systems on the market.

The ones in common use may be either magnetic, acoustic-magnetic, or radio frequency identification, the latter type being an application of a tank circuit or “dip meter.”

One of the most common RFID detectors is "Sensormatic" and the oddest things set them off.

RFID tags on employee badges and Castle key cards are the most common problems, but even a coiled telephone earphone is also known to have set them off, as well as laser-cut decorative zipper pulls, intricate metal earrings, or even a pocket of paper clips!

Diagnosing “false positives” is a source of wonderment and delight for those servicing the equipment.

While not the current usual practice, a few firearms manufacturers experimented with RFID tags for automated inventorying; one maker in particular got into trouble for doing so. Since then I haven’t heard of any other gun companies applying them to the guns themselves, but only to their BOXES.


I am not aware of false positives being caused by the presence of a firearm. When such an alarm occurs it was almost always because the person was carrying something ELSE which activated the sensor.

This provides all the more reason NOT to try to sneak a gun into a place where doing so is prohibited by the management, — lest you get charged with criminal trespass, especially if you’ve bought new cowboy boots, belt, hat or imported Italian silk shirt or gold jewelry recently!

[thegatman]

If it has a laser as I think bodyguards do, take off the "protective " laser tag. It might have an RFID strip or as My NSA "friend" says good luck.

[TXGunNut]

I used to like guns that would set off car alarms. ;-) Last time I set off a store security alarm the guy in front of me hollered "RUN" and I just giggled and kept walking. At some stores the alarm goes of constantly, as a rule I ignore them and most employees do as well.

[lightload]

Wouldn't Cabela's "gun" manager help you eliminate figure out what's going on?

[Mad Jack]

Gen 2 RFID tags are about 2 cents each, purchased in volume. Before un-stitching, I would take just the holster thru one of the readers that you have set off.

The RFID reader sends out a pulse that is received by the tag. This pulse powers the tag up and it then transmits its data out and the reader receives it. The tags are passive, dumb devices and will send out a number.


That is exactly how most of them work. I worked at Intermec and tested the first RFID scanners. This was in 1998/99.

Our RFID product was for military use on weapons that were not laser friendly.

[dragon813gt]

At some stores the alarm goes of constantly, as a rule I ignore them and most employees do as well.

This would be me at Home Depot. I don't break stride and don't even look back. It's not my fault if they don't deactivate something in my bag. The amusing part is that no one looks up or stops you when it goes off.

[Storydude]

This would be me at Home Depot. I don't break stride and don't even look back. It's not my fault if they don't deactivate something in my bag. The amusing part is that no one looks up or stops you when it goes off.

Home depot has a "do not Stop" order in effect.

Meaning if you walk out the door stealing, an employee that stops you may be subject to termination.

[NavyVet1959]

Home depot has a "do not Stop" order in effect.

Meaning if you walk out the door stealing, an employee that stops you may be subject to termination.

Just don't try that in Texas since a righteous citizen could legally shoot you.

[dubber123]

Just don't try that in Texas since a righteous citizen could legally shoot you.

That's a handy piece of information to have right there :)

[NavyVet1959]

That's a handy piece of information to have right there :)

http://nation.time.com/2013/06/13/when-you-can-kill-in-texas/

Of course the problem is that sometimes you end up with a leftist DA who will side with the criminal who has been shot and you'll have to fight it in court when it really should have never even made it to trial. And once in court, you end up with juries who are too stupid to understand the law and want to just make *someone* accountable for poor little Leroy / Juan / Miguel / whatever who was such a good boy that he just *had* to steal stuff.

[ArrowJ]

http://nation.time.com/2013/06/13/when-you-can-kill-in-texas/

Of course the problem is that sometimes you end up with a leftist DA who will side with the criminal who has been shot and you'll have to fight it in court when it really should have never even made it to trial. And once in court, you end up with juries who are too stupid to understand the law and want to just make *someone* accountable for poor little Leroy / Juan / Miguel / whatever who was such a good boy that he just *had* to steal stuff.

I am not sure I could end someone's life over stealing. Maybe if I did not they would escalate to more violent crimes, but that is nothing more than pre-crime conjecture. Now if it were in my home maybe I would feel differently depending on the circumstances, but walking out of the store with a bottle of soda or a gold watch? Not sure. I reserve the right to be wrong.

[rosewood]

Nope, never had a gun set one off. Not sure how that is possible. My brother however had the issue for a long time before he realized there was a theft tag in his wallet. Took it out and no more issues.

[Sasquatch-1]

I believe you said early on that this was a .38spl body guard, which is a revolver, I believe. Have you checked under the side plate? As mentioned before, the easiest way is to find a degausser. Also why tear the holster apart when you have taken the gun without the holster through a detector and still have the problem?

[NavyVet1959]

I am not sure I could end someone's life over stealing. Maybe if I did not they would escalate to more violent crimes, but that is nothing more than pre-crime conjecture. Now if it were in my home maybe I would feel differently depending on the circumstances, but walking out of the store with a bottle of soda or a gold watch? Not sure. I reserve the right to be wrong.

So, if you owned a jewelry store and someone tried to walk out with a $20K Rolex, you would just let 'em? What's the difference between that and someone robbing you of $20K?

[2wheelDuke]

Home depot has a "do not Stop" order in effect.

Meaning if you walk out the door stealing, an employee that stops you may be subject to termination.

Maybe that's something new, because the ones in Florida didn't used to be that way. I've seen the LP's at the Home Depot in some knockdown dragout fights with shoplifters. I've also seen plenty of times where they handcuffed suspects before we arrived as well.

It's been about 6 months since I covered the zone with the Home Depot, and I'm not in patrol anymore. So Home Depot might have changed their policies.

This might also vary by state because of differing legal environments.

[2wheelDuke]

And on a semi-related note, my girlfriend bought some new clothes at Kohl's last weekend. The alarm sounded as she was walking out, but there were other people walking out at the same time so she didn't pay it any attention.

When she went to wear the new pants she bought, she found the security tag still on them. I just happened to have a sidecutters within reach, so I carefully removed it for her.

After the fact I thought of some other ways I might've been able to remove it, but it was already handled.

Back when I was a kid working retail, it was a game to hide those tags on each other.

[Light attack]

I used to work at Lowe's. The only person that was allowed to try to stop someone was the "Official security associate"

[dragon813gt]

Just don't try that in Texas since a righteous citizen could legally shoot you.

So if the alarm goes off because the store associate didn't do their job a citizen would be able to shoot me in Texas? No wonder it was a fight to get open carry there.

No material possession is worth taking someone's life over. A jewelry store owner shouldn't be able to shoot a shoplifter unless their life is in danger. There are to many risks involved w/ gunning down a shoplifter. Most notably shooting innocent bystanders.

Don't take this as I think shoplifting is okay. Because it's definitely not. But we have a legal system in this country for a reason.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

So if the alarm goes off because the store associate didn't do their job a citizen would be able to shoot me in Texas? No wonder it was a fight to get open carry there.

I believe the comment was intended as a joke. Petty theft is certainly not grounds for bystanders to start shooting. I also agree that no material possessions of mine are worth killing for. That being said TX does have odd property laws and I have heard of shootings being justified over items and legal jargon such as "defense of a 3rd party." Has something to do with if it is your property or if you have been asked to aid.

[rosewood]

So, are we saying there is no legal way to stop someone stealing from you? Can you tackle them? Stun gun them? Pepper spray? Or do you just watch them walk away? What legal way is there for a LEO to stop someone? Just tackle them? At one point chicken theft or horse theft was a hanging offense. Guess we have came a long way from that.

[farmerjim]

Just don't try that in Texas since a righteous citizen could legally shoot you.
I remember that 911 call. Walton and Johnson played it often.
I wish we had those laws over here, not to shoot to kill someone, but to put the fear of death into them if they think about trying. Back in my younger days there was a group of thug kids driving around vandalizing property. ( they threw a brick through my back car window) . They were emptying garbage cans over one of my friends front yard. The son saw this and tried to stop them. They jumped on him and proceeded to beat him up. The father came out of the house with his 9mm and told them to stop. Two of them then went after him. He told them to stop again. They did not. He shot both of them, one dead and the other paralyzed for life.
All the vandalism stopped.

[NavyVet1959]

So if the alarm goes off because the store associate didn't do their job a citizen would be able to shoot me in Texas? No wonder it was a fight to get open carry there.

No material possession is worth taking someone's life over. A jewelry store owner shouldn't be able to shoot a shoplifter unless their life is in danger. There are to many risks involved w/ gunning down a shoplifter. Most notably shooting innocent bystanders.

Don't take this as I think shoplifting is okay. Because it's definitely not. But we have a legal system in this country for a reason.

I guess that just shows how living around too many liberals can affect how someone thinks.

Technically, the law states that it must be "theft during nighttime". If it's broad daylight, deadly force is not authorized, but the force and the *threat of deadly force* is authorized. If upon using the threat of deadly force, the person does something that makes you think that your life might be in danger, then you could say that "you were in fear for your life" and thus deadly force could be authorized. Of course, that doesn't mean that some liberal DA and police force isn't going to try to make your life miserable for proving that they are useless. They want to justify their existence and if that means by screwing you over, so be it.

Deadly force is also authorized here for "criminal mischief during the nighttime". That means that those gangbangers that want to "mark their territory" with spray paint need to watch out at night since it could be a hazardous endeavor.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Let us hope a lot of what we hear about shooting people for property theft is just the lesser vice of empty talk. I don't believe I know any jurisdiction where the person doing so wouldn't get a lot of allowance for distraction which prevented clear thinking, if it was an unarmed intruder in his home, the loss of property such as records that would doom his business, arson which would do the same. etc. etc. But otherwise only a reasonable danger of serious injury or worse should justify it. But there is always another way good enough for minor property theft.

I hear stores have cameras nowadays, and even a hair or traces from someone's garments are enough for a DNA identification. In every jurisdiction I know, again, any citizen is entitled to make an arrest for theft, and use reasonable force to secure handing over of the culprit to the police. Shooting him isn't reasonable, though, and shooting a criminal on sight is the way you make criminals who will shoot on being sighted.

[dragon813gt]

Those laws aren't much different then here. Except for the criminal mischief one. My view has nothing to do w/ living around liberals. No material possession is worth killing someone. If a life is threatened than deadly force can and should be used.

I get that theft and destruction if property is bad. But we live in a society that has laws. If no one abides by them we will end up like Mexico and every other third world country.

[NavyVet1959]

Shooting him isn't reasonable, though, and shooting a criminal on sight is the way you make criminals who will shoot on being sighted.

Actually, shooting criminals on sight is the way you *reduce* the number of criminals.

[NavyVet1959]

Those laws aren't much different then here. Except for the criminal mischief one. My view has nothing to do w/ living around liberals. No material possession is worth killing someone. If a life is threatened than deadly force can and should be used.


On that, we must then disagree.

Besides, it's not us that decides that an item is worth killing someone over. It's the thief that decides that an item is worth *dying* over.


I get that theft and destruction if property is bad. But we live in a society that has laws. If no one abides by them we will end up like Mexico and every other third world country.

And our law states that if you try to steal something at night, you can get shot.

Oh, and I actually enjoy visiting Mexico (except for their restrictions on firearms for honest citizens). I don't speak Spanish, but I get by well enough by knowing the two most important phrases:



Dos cervezas, por favor
¿Baños?



Past that, I just wait for someone else to order something at a restaurant and point at what they're having. :)

[762 shooter]

Reminds me of one of the last conversations in Guardians of the Galaxy. The raccoon has been pardoned from his past crimes and is being admonished not to break any laws.

Rocket: Pardon me sir, but what if I see something that belongs to some one else and I want it more than he does and I take it.

Law enforcement: That would be stealing and against the law.

Rocket: No, you don't understand. I want it more than he does.

People that have no regard for their own life should be allowed to take anything they want?

762

[dragon813gt]

And our law states that if you try to steal something at night, you can get shot.


And as such I am fine w/ that. Is the law written that has to be your property? If not I can see some potential for vigilante justice. In most cases the thief is going to be in your house which is all you need for your life to be threatened. Castle doctrine may extend outside your home to your property as well. If that's the way the law is written I have no issues. Now shooting a thief that you see running out of Home Depot is another issue all together.

[NavyVet1959]

And as such I am fine w/ that. Is the law written that has to be your property? If not I can see some potential for vigilante justice. In most cases the thief is going to be in your house which is all you need for your life to be threatened. Castle doctrine may extend outside your home to your property as well. If that's the way the law is written I have no issues. Now shooting a thief that you see running out of Home Depot is another issue all together.

Nope, it can be in defense of a third party (or their property).

[TXGunNut]

Nope, it can be in defense of a third party (or their property).

Legal, yes. Good idea? Maybe. Yes, I'll defend a third person if I'm sure I understand the situation. As far as property it would have to be a situation where I would do the same for my own property, I set that bar pretty high.

[TXGunNut]

So, are we saying there is no legal way to stop someone stealing from you? Can you tackle them? Stun gun them? Pepper spray? Or do you just watch them walk away? What legal way is there for a LEO to stop someone? Just tackle them? At one point chicken theft or horse theft was a hanging offense. Guess we have came a long way from that.

Yes, many legal ways to stop a thief, including deadly force in some situations. I won't shoot a thief in most situations but may beat on them enough that they may wish I'd go ahead and shoot them. I was an old school cop. Saw more than I wanted to see, did more than I wanted to do. Wouldn't hesitate to do it again but hope I go to my grave without raising a hand (or gun) to another person, no matter how sorry and useless he may be.

[smokeywolf]

A crook who wishes only to steal your hard earned possessions will normally wait until you're not at home to break in and steal your property.
Assuming that someone breaking into your home while you're there, will not harm you or your family, may result in you and your family being moved to a cemetery and the perpetrator spending a decade or two in prison followed by probation (because he was such a model prisoner).

[shaune1022]

So.... did we figure out the culprit. What was setting off the stores' security alarms?

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Actually, shooting criminals on sight is the way you *reduce* the number of criminals.

Then you should have fewer criminals than the rest of the developed world sometime soon. Let us know when it happens.

[6bg6ga]

Pulling the BS chain. Been thru hundreds of stores carrying a 1911, Glock, and other firearms and walked within a foot or less of the sensor and never set anything off. I'm wondering if there is a chip in your body possibly from a alien encounter.

[NavyVet1959]

Then you should have fewer criminals than the rest of the developed world sometime soon. Let us know when it happens.

Unfortunately, we don't kill 'em off faster than they can breed. The government has put too many limits in place on when and where you can kill 'em off. It's kind of like the Department of Wildlife and Game who puts limits on the number and when you can harvest game so that there will be plenty for others to harvest in later years while also maintaining a stable population. It's like they are putting these limits on us because they want to keep the judicial system and prison industry fully employed. :(

[rosewood]

Unfortunately, we don't kill 'em off faster than they can breed. The government has put too many limits in place on when and where you can kill 'em off. It's kind of like the Department of Wildlife and Game who puts limits on the number and when you can harvest game so that there will be plenty for others to harvest in later years while also maintaining a stable population. It's like they are putting these limits on us because they want to keep the judicial system and prison industry fully employed. :(

Well, actually they do have a process in place to reduce criminals and for population control. It is called abortion. When you think about, how many of the folks that have an abortion would have raised the child in a single parent home, or sent the kid to be raised by grandparents or grandparent because the cycle perpetrates itself. Or would that kid had to raise itself? Don't get me wrong, I am totally against abortion. It is murder regardless of what they want to call it.

Rosewood

[NavyVet1959]

Well, actually they do have a process in place to reduce criminals and for population control. It is called abortion. When you think about, how many of the folks that have an abortion would have raised the child in a single parent home, or sent the kid to be raised by grandparents or grandparent because the cycle perpetrates itself. Or would that kid had to raise itself? Don't get me wrong, I am totally against abortion. It is murder regardless of what they want to call it.


And I think that *all* Democrats should get abortions since the offspring of liberals is more likely to be liberal anyway. If they want to voluntarily decrease their numbers, let 'em! I just don't put a high value on the lives of liberals, even unborn potential liberals.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Pulling the BS chain. Been thru hundreds of stores carrying a 1911, Glock, and other firearms and walked within a foot or less of the sensor and never set anything off. I'm wondering if there is a chip in your body possibly from a alien encounter.

I think the op will need to start walking in and out of Walmart naked with and without the gun until this mystery is solved. At my local Walmart I don't think such actions would even be noticed.

[farmerjim]

Walk through without the gun. If it does not set it off add only the gun, nothing else. If it sets it off, partially dissemble the gun and take the parts through. Continue this process till the offending part is found. I want to know what is causing this to happen. The intrigue is too much.

[NavyVet1959]

I think the op will need to start walking in and out of Walmart naked with and without the gun until this mystery is solved. At my local Walmart I don't think such actions would even be noticed.

You're probably right...

http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/category/short-shortsno-shortsunderwear/

[OS OK]

Have you walked in without your wallet?..but with your sidearm? Something in there could be responding to the signal.

[NavyVet1959]

I seem to remember that with some of the old systems that even calculators or cell phones of that era could set them off.

[KenH]

Well, we sorta got off topic of OP here, and I'd sure like to learn if he ever found the problem.

BUT - there is a statement I'd like to comment on:
It's the thief that decides that an item is worth *dying* over.

That's what I was always taught as a kid growing up, make sure if you wish to steal, what you're stealing is really worth your life. I've heard of folks getting shot for stealing a watermelon from the patch in the hill country.

Later

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

None of several different handguns I have carried through shoplifting detectors have set them off.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

A follow up from the op would be nice on this one.

[NavyVet1959]

A follow up from the op would be nice on this one.

Well, assuming he's active duty on boomer, it might be another 90 days before he sees the light of day... :)