.22 LR bullets any good?

[utk]

I want to turn .22LR bullets into boolits. Are they hard enough, like wheelweights?

I have the opportunity of getting fairly large amounts of these, mined from the berm.
All I need is hard enough for .38 special. Would be nice if they also worked in .357 Magnum.

Does anybody know how much antimony they contain?

Edit. Thanks Scrounger. There is a very similar thread elsewhere. In my case, this is .22LR bullets only. No mix. If pure lead or almost, I might ask my ML friends if they are interested. Would be interesting to know the exact alloy, though. Are they as soft as airrifle pellets?

[Scrounger]

They are extremely soft, probably pure lead.

[454PB]

As I recall, .22 rimfires are clocking over 1000 fps., so obviously whatever alloy they are made of is capable of .38 Special velocities. .357 Magnum velocities might be more of a challenge, unless you use gas checks.

[Ricochet]

I've got a post around here somewhere quoting what George Frost said about them in Ammunition Making. IIRC, he said they're about 1.5-2% antimony, which is about like the 50/50 WW/pure lead mix. He said that's a popular jacketed bullet core alloy, too.

Swaging makes the metal softer than it comes out cast, and of course this stuff will quench harden.

[utk]

I've sent an email to CCI and SK Munitions (european mfg). Will try to find RWS email addy too.
I "think" airrifle pellets are .5% antimony.

[Ricochet]

OK, I found the book. Mr. Frost, who worked for Winchester-Western for many years and then set up the Squires-Bingham ammo factory in the Phillippines, addressed it in two places. On page 27 in "The Bullet" chapter, he said:

"Pure lead is not used for lead bullets. It is too soft, damages too easily in handling and loading. Soft lead also upsets in the barrel when fired, losing both point and base shape. Pure lead is seldom used for bullet cores, again because it is too easily damaged and is more apt to separate from the jacket upon bullet expansion at the target." (Goes on to describe dual-core bullets with a soft front part and harder rear core.)

"Antimony is the usual hardening agent in the lead alloy. Antimony content may run from 1% up to 4 or 5%. .22 rimfire bullets from various manufacturers run from 3/4% up to about 2% antimony. 1 3/4% is a reasonable choice. A common core alloy runs 1 1/2% and works well in many bullets."

Tin-lead alloy has also been used for .22 rimfire bullets, and does make a good bullet. The percentage of tin needed to equal antimony hardness is about 4-5% tin vs. 1-1 1/2% antimony. Because tin costs much more than antimony, and requires greater quantities of material to get the same result, it is not a good choice for hardening lead alloys."

Then on page 135 in "The .22 Match Cartridge" he says:

"The lead is alloyed with antimony, arsenic, and if one can afford it, a bit of tin. One usable alloy is 1.5% antimony, .02% arsenic, and the balance lead. An even better alloy, but more expensive because of the high cost of tine, is .15 to .20% antimony, .02% arsenic, and 4 to 5% tin; the rest is lead."

[utk]

Very interesting to know, Ricochet. Do you know how this soft alloy would work in .38 special, say below 1000fps?

Btw, I've sent my question to RWS also.

[Ricochet]

Well, I've shot many 158 gr. SWC Speer swaged bullets that seem to be made of the same stuff in .38 Special. Mostly over 4.7 grains of Unique, I think the book indicates 913 FPS for that. Never had any significant leading. They're lubricated with the same thin dry wax coating as .22s.

(I've shot way more Speer .44 cal. 240 gr. SWCs in .44 Special and Magnum, and they do well up to about 1000 FPS. Above that they start leading, less so with Ball powders than with the hot burning flakes.)

If they do seem too soft to you, water drop them from the mould or heat them for an hour at 475°F and quench them in cold water. They'll get plenty hard after a few days.

The original bullets for .44 Magnum were gas checked swaged soft lead 240 gr. SWCs, and the ones I used to shoot from Winchester (and still have some of) were dry wax lubed but with more of it than the .22s or Speers. They were dipped or tumbled in paraffin, with the grooves filled and often with a glob of wax on the base. Winchester's recommended load for those was 25.0 gr. W296, not to be reduced. Book velocity for the load in revolver test barrel was 1550 FPS. Those loads never leaded my Super Blackhawk or Marlin 1894.

[StrawHat]

Another way to use them would be to alloy them with solder or other hardening agent.

I used to have a supply of organ pipes, too soft for some uses, that I alloyed with 50/50 solder. For me it worked well.

[utk]

I asked Hornady a long time ago about their swaged bullets and I think they said 5%, but I'm not sure.

I'll see in a few days how much I can lay my hands on, but it's definitely worth a try.

[Ricochet]

I thought organ pipes were principally made of tin?