The Infamous Ford 5.4 Triton Cam Phaser Dealer Rip Off

[jonp]

I bought a used F150 last year with about 140,000 miles knowing it would need timing chains so i built that into the offer and did ok on a clean truck.

I was looking around the internet on a noise it began making and found out about the well known cam phaser problem. I even found the TSB on it. Sure enough that sounded like mine so to be sure i follwed advice and changed the sensors first. No dice. Noise a little quieter but still there so i took it to the local Ford dealership to confirm it.

Girl called me back several days later to tell me the "tech" said it was the sensors. Kind of hard since they were brand new. Several days later i called her and surprise! Cam phasers so went in to talk about it. I had already looked them up online to get an idea of what to expect. They came up with 3 options

1) replace cam phasers with a bunch of parts added i didnt recognize. $1,650
2) Phasers and timing chain job due to mileage. $2,600
3) New Engine? $7,000

Told them id think it over, went home and got on the internet. Essentally you take off the valve cover, pop off the old phaser and put on the new one, new valve cover gasket and close it up. Instead of a page full of parts i ordered 2 phasers, a wedge tool to keep the timing chain tight and gaskets for $150 and im doing it myself. Guess they havn't figured out the internet is out there and that type of crud aint flying anymore. Not sure what all those other parts are but $150 beats the heck out of $1,600.

Where did that new $7,000 crate engine come from? "We like to give the customers several options". Yeah, well one of mine is never come in here again

I thought i had scrubbed the stupid sign off my forehead before going in but some must have still been on there.

Oh, the $125 Cam Phasers i ordered online the Ford Dealership wanted about $400

[Artful]

Nothing new in this - Stealership's pricing has been that way ever since they redesigned cars to get rid of shade tree mechanic's.

[Rufus Krile]

Similar, yet different... local mech I'd used for years decided he hasn't seen enough of me. Asked him about shocks for a '06 Silverado... was told '$600'. Asked another guy and got the same answer. Bought the shocks at parts store and, 10 bolts later, saved $500. Still don't like crawling around under a truck but for that much money I can be a little uncomfortable. That much markup is just taking advantage... I know he has a business to run but a neighborhood mechanic requires return​ business.

[FISH4BUGS]

Similar but different......I had a Mercedes 300cd with 125,000 miles on it. The transmission started slipping badly and I took it in to the dealer. They said $5000 for a new transmission.
I thought it might be good to check the trans fluid level and it was amost bone dry. I put in 6 liters of the fluid and proceeded to put 250,000 miles on a car that "needed a new transmission".
The Rockingham County Attorney, who was good friend of mine, refused to prosecute for attempted fraud. The local police was not interested either.
Dreher Hollowy Mercedes in Greenland NH is a thief. No other way to describe them.

[osteodoc08]

A how-to would be pretty cool if you had the time

[dkf]

You can get a kit to lock out the cam phasers also. You'll need tuning with the lockout though. Livernois Motorsports is one that offers a kit. Of course if you have a broken or worn chain guide or tensioner the new phasers won't help much. Dealerships and a lot of other shops shaft you. They are not content just to make money on labor, they want to make good profit on parts too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsoU2zEWTyE
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsoU2zEWTyE)

http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/product/LPP822133

[jonp]

dkf: i saw that and the video. The lockouts were $35 or so but consensus was you had to reprogram the motor anf the program was $400 i think so replacing the phasers was cheaper for me considering the age of the truck and the miles. Another 100k and it will be ready to retire. If it was a newer truck id go the lockout route and not worry about them again

[dkf]

Yeah you have to have tune the truck and that is where most of the cost of the lockout kit is. Though the tuning does do much more than just take care of the lockout. I can't stand to go back to stock since I have had custom tuning on my truck. Hopefully the new phasers will last 100k miles. It seems the 3V 4.6l and 5.4l were kinda Fords guinea pig for cam phasers. The newer engine like the 5.0l 4V has not had all the issues with the phasers the earlier 3Vs had.

[higgins]

Another scam I encountered a while back at a Toyota dealership that was new to me was that when they take your car in for an oil change, as a courtesy they check the wheel alignment (they don't tell you this ahead of time). guess what? A couple of my wheels were out of alignment! Since I had even tire wear, and no pulling to either side on a good surface, I immediately sensed a scam. I didn't bother to ask how much out of alignment, are they out of perfect alignment but still within =/- range, etc. Everybody who brought a car in for an oil change while I was in the waiting room had tires out of alignment.

They offered a one-time alignment price, and a "special" lifetime alignment offer. While I was waiting, they hooked an elderly (older than me) lady on a lifetime alignment. Another elderly lady called someone who told her not to get alignment "fixed", and a younger woman told someone on the phone that they had tried to pull an alignment scam on her.


Oh, they overfilled my crankcase by about a quart so I went back and had them drain it down to the full mark. Somehow, I expected better of a Toyota dealer, but I guess they're like all the others some are straight up people and some are thieves and con artists.

[MT Gianni]

Nothing new in this - Stealership's pricing has been that way ever since they redesigned cars to get rid of shade tree mechanic's.
In their defense I don't believe their genuine (*&^ parts starts with high prices at the dealer. It starts at the factory with original parts and is passed through to distributors and dealerships all along the way. Local shop is just trying to compete with those smart enough to buy @ NAPA for 1/2 what they want. One of the more interesting weeks of my life was a juror in a trial of wrongful discharge from a car dealer. First day and a half was how a dealership makes money. The answer is hand over fist but the real $$ come in at the higher levels.
AS Fish4bugs said to leave a dealership with a transmission 6 quarts low is fraudulent if not criminal.

[mozeppa]

three days ago i went to 3 places for a quote to replace the switch controls for my cruise control ...the switches on the steering wheel.

$320 to $360 was the average.

$175 for the parts....2 hours labour for the balance.

i went to autozone...bought the parts for $142 including tax...and put it in myself in 10 minutes flat.

thieves!

[garym1a2]

Having worked as a design EE for 24 years designing aftermarket electronics for car parts I must say the OEM parts typically are made much higher quality than our parts where. Even more so since production went from US to China in 2004.

[Storydude]

In their defense I don't believe their genuine (*&^ parts starts with high prices at the dealer. It starts at the factory with original parts and is passed through to distributors and dealerships all along the way. Local shop is just trying to compete with those smart enough to buy @ NAPA for 1/2 what they want. One of the more interesting weeks of my life was a juror in a trial of wrongful discharge from a car dealer. First day and a half was how a dealership makes money. The answer is hand over fist but the real $$ come in at the higher levels.
AS Fish4bugs said to leave a dealership with a transmission 6 quarts low is fraudulent if not criminal.
Napa buys it's parts from the same china parts houses as Autozone.

Napa is no assurance it's a good part.

[jonp]

Yeah you have to have tune the truck and that is where most of the cost of the lockout kit is. Though the tuning does do much more than just take care of the lockout. I can't stand to go back to stock since I have had custom tuning on my truck. Hopefully the new phasers will last 100k miles. It seems the 3V 4.6l and 5.4l were kinda Fords guinea pig for cam phasers. The newer engine like the 5.0l 4V has not had all the issues with the phasers the earlier 3Vs had.

That's pretty much what I read on the F150 Forums. If the truck had 50k less miles on it I'd go for the lock out and tune. Even if the new phasers last 20k I could buy 10 sets for less than the dealer wanted and put them in. I'd still have a 350k truck if it runs that long. I know I'll need the timing chains done shortly but I don't use it as my primary driver. More drive to the dump and occasional drive around to Lowes for lumber or tow my motorcycles somewhere. Maybe 6,000 - 7,000 miles a year.

The cam phasers are a well known problem and there should be a recall on them. I am to blame for buying the truck without looking it up first. Type "5.4 Triton" into a search engine and you can read about the phasers. My fault for not doing this before buying. If I had seen it I'd not touched the truck and kept looking. I should have bought another Tundra like I wanted but too late for that unless I fix the phasers and dump it.

[dkf]

The 5.4l 3V isn't a bad engine and they have been known to obtain very high mileage. The cam phasers and the spark plugs where just two areas on them when Ford screwed the pooch. Look on the bright side, you could have bought a 6.0l or 6.4l diesel, talk about expensive to problems and repair expense. Luckily the 6.8l never got cam phasers. I don't know what oil you use but you may see less noise with using a 5w30 vs 5w20. All I use on modulars is 5w30 (or sometimes 0w30 in the winter). Ford actually changed the specs for the 2016 MY for the 6.2l and 6.8l to 5w30 due to wear related failures.

[nvbirdman]

A friend of mine took his '95 Ford truck to the dealer and was told it needed a part that was no longer available. A few days later he called Ford home office and they sent him the part.

[MaryB]

Cam phasers ddn't come into play until 2004, my 2001 Triton 5.4 doesn't have them. Just has the crappy plugs and I think I have one that is in need of a helicoil...

[Mk42gunner]

Its not only car dealerships and local mechanics that try to scam you. Back in 93 before I went to Adak, I put four new tires on my Datsun 4x4 and the Firestone dealer tried to do a "complimentary alignment" since I bought four brand new tires.

Surprise, surprise, I needed four ball joints. I think the total was going to be $250 or $300. I said no, and replaced them myself at the base hobby shop for something like $65.

The truck didn't drive any better or worse, and never did wear the tires out until I sold it right before I retired in 2004.

Robert

[Lloyd Smale]

you guys want that high technology that's the price. You might want to buy new and trade it in every 5 years or so. Just wait till those fancy turbo ecotec motors get up around 120000 miles and stuff starts breaking. Your local garage might just send you to the ford dealer because he doesn't have the tools to work on them. No thanks. give me a single cam v8 that breaths on its own. Funny thing is ford does all this stuff and it might by them 2mpg at the VERY MOST over a dodge or chev v8 and that's driving 55 down the road. Put a load on it and id bet the normally aspirated motors get better mileage that that v6 with 10lbs of boost being shoved in it. ford needs to get back to its basics like the good old 302.

[6bg6ga]

Currently have 200K on my company 2008 Ford E250 van with the Triton 5.4 engine. Nothing done on the engine as of yet and no problems.

[jonp]

Similar but different......I had a Mercedes 300cd with 125,000 miles on it. The transmission started slipping badly and I took it in to the dealer. They said $5000 for a new transmission.
I thought it might be good to check the trans fluid level and it was amost bone dry. I put in 6 liters of the fluid and proceeded to put 250,000 miles on a car that "needed a new transmission".
The Rockingham County Attorney, who was good friend of mine, refused to prosecute for attempted fraud. The local police was not interested either.
Dreher Hollowy Mercedes in Greenland NH is a thief. No other way to describe them.

Wish I had a dollar for every meal I've eaten in the T/A in Greenland.

I once bought a brand spankin new Nissan Pick-up. The XE V6 King Cab. Loved the truck but it ate tires. One place I went into told me it ate tires because "it was made a few inches higher on the drivers side to make up for the weight of the driver and would level out when you got into it. If a lighter driver drove it then the truck was not level and the tires would wear out faster". Sounded fishy to me. It also came to me with the 4wd transfer box almost empty.

Years later I bought an '06 Tundra V8, the reason for this thread as my daughter wrecked it so I bought the Ford. The Tundra was brand new off the lot. The next year I took it back for a service and general check up and I asked about greasing it. "No grease needed, these things have permanent parts. You just replace them when they wear out". I thought that sucked but they were the dealer so I believed them. A couple of years later I got under the truck to change the oil and hmm...that looks like a grease fitting. I found about 15 of them on everything that moved under there. Figures Toyota built the darn thing right in the first place. Sure wish now that I'd have bought another one instead of this F150

[jonp]

Cam phasers ddn't come into play until 2004, my 2001 Triton 5.4 doesn't have them. Just has the crappy plugs and I think I have one that is in need of a helicoil...

Leave it to me to buy a 2004 F150 with that motor. I seem to bat about 1,000% when it comes to non-gun stuff. If it has a motor I generally am really lost of the new stuff and I think that is by design. The auto companies do not want you to work on your own vehicle any more and the politicians are in bed with them.

http://jalopnik.com/carmakers-want-to-make-working-on-your-car-illegal-beca-1699132210 Ran across this earlier this year. They want to force you to go into a dealership and get ripped off with no recourse except.....public transportation. Same Idea as gun banners out west. Make vehicles so expensive you can't afford them and there will be less of them out there.

[jonp]

The 5.4l 3V isn't a bad engine and they have been known to obtain very high mileage. The cam phasers and the spark plugs where just two areas on them when Ford screwed the pooch. Look on the bright side, you could have bought a 6.0l or 6.4l diesel, talk about expensive to problems and repair expense. Luckily the 6.8l never got cam phasers. I don't know what oil you use but you may see less noise with using a 5w30 vs 5w20. All I use on modulars is 5w30 (or sometimes 0w30 in the winter). Ford actually changed the specs for the 2016 MY for the 6.2l and 6.8l to 5w30 due to wear related failures.

I changed from 5w20 to 5w30 but it didn't seem to make any difference in the noise. I got the info on trying that from a F150 owners forum but they also indicated that the thicker oil might not be a good idea as the oil ports (?) were undersized and the thicker oil might not flow correctly. IDK about that but I changed back to a 5w20 full synthetic and added some Marvel to it. Personnaly I think that using the slightly thicker oil in the summer when its 90 here wouldn't do anything bad to it. Ford did change the specs on the rear end fluid specifying a full synthetic instead of the regular and changing the viscosity a little. I don't see the big deal as you would change it out if you submerged the axles up to the rocker's anyways at least I would.

[pdumont01]

I worked for ford, and in my experience those 5.4 3 valves are junk. They could very well put in phasers, and you may need an engine a month later. That's why they give you the option, so when it does go, it isn't their fault. My advice- get a junkyard engine with a warranty. Most of the phaser failures and engine damage is due to the use of aftermarket oil filters and just plain neglect. Good luck. Aftermarket phasers are junk will end up in the same boat sooner.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[Geezer in NH]

Read that since 2005 90% of all Fords are still on the road. Only10% made it home. :bigsmyl2:

[MrWolf]

Read that since 2005 90% of all Fords are still on the road. Only10% made it home. :bigsmyl2:

Guess the old Found On Road Dead (FORD) still applies :oops:

[bedbugbilly]

Those kinds of rip offs aren't limited to Ford. The last time we had our Toyota RAV in for service - all it needed was a LOF and I wanted the tires rotated . . . the service manager told me that they should change "all" the fluids in the car. HUH??? The mileage isn't that high was my retort. I then pulled out the service booklet that is in the glove compartment and asked him to show me where Toyota recommended it at that mileage . . . he got red faced and then said that the "dealership" recommended it. Nope . . . just do what I asked to be done. A half hour later, he comes in to the waiting room and informs me that the battery terminals had "some corrosion" and needed to be cleaned. I did a double take and asked him how much? It will be $65.00 he replied. I just stared at him and then asked "for what". He informed me that they used a "special kit" to clean terminals. I told him to get the car ready and we would be leaving . . . probably to never return. I then informed him that I had cleaned the terminals the week before and there was no way there was any corrosion or problem. Personally . . . I don't mind paying for work that NEEDS to be done . . . but I'm sure as heck not going to be ripped off.

[Tackleberry41]

I worked in more than a few dealers, some are worse than others, some its management, others its the tech. Many dealerships are only in it for the money, who they screw to get it isn't really relevant. My mom always calls me before she has anything done, saves her alot of money. Many places want to do fuel system cleanings, yea whatever, its just free money for them. Other push oil changes when you do not need them. Whats the point of using synthetic oil if you still change it every 5k miles? I have worked at places, usually not long, that push to sell stuff. Had a boss that would walk thru the shop and say that car needs shocks, really you have xray vision? Got mad when I would not go in and lie to some little old lady and scare her into buying shocks she didn't need, he wants to screw, hes gonna have to do it. Honest mechanics may be popular with customers, dealerships hate them.

And there are plenty of dishonest techs. Some only stick it to the company, others are equal opportunity. I worked at a mercedes shop and a good scam was the transmission on the ML 4 wheel drive. The tech would write it up as replacing the entire transmission and all the associated labor, but never even take it out of the crate. Just swap out some part and send the new trans back. You would think somebody would say whoa this trans isnt even dusty. There are plenty who will claim to rebuild your calipers, when all they do is spray paint them. Alignments are an easy scam. I knew guys who had them preprinted so he could show you how bad it was, and never even turn on the machine. Dealer doesn't care, money is money. And many cars now only thing you can even adjust is the toe.

The mark up at dealers is pretty bad, the cheaper the part the more the mark up. And some can be really bad. Worked at a VW dealer, and the part price depended on who quoted it. The managers quote was always higher, he would get out his calculator and depending on his mood decided how much he added. And the back/front counter prices were different. He got caught one day, a customer had came in got a quote thru the shop, decided to do it themselves. Saw the very different prices for the same parts on the same day for the same dealer. The owner made a scene to please the customer, then it went back to normal once he left.

As for alignments, it really can depend on the driver. Porsche had specs where you needed x amount of fuel in the tank and weight in the drivers seat, I would ask the driver how much. Other cars nothing was ever said about driver weight. And we have all seen the people waddling around anymore. I guarantee the specs would need to be different for me as a driver vs someone weighing 2x what I do. What about when husband and wife are both big? We had a mom and daughter, both overly large. Well they bought the smallest car on the lot, a struggle for either to get in and out. They would pull up to the door and honk until someone came out vs all the effort to get out and waddle inside. Their complaint, it wore tires out fast and was slow. Really? Who would think when both weigh more than a family of 4.

The other side of the coin is the customers. In Fla I dealt with alot of low riders. They would go spend thousands on tires and rims, but skimp on the $20 bolts to get the alignment right. So ate the tires off the cars. And ***** all day about your alignment skills. Or they would come in with some muffler, the bug in a can type. You could see where it had been welded in several cars. Kid wanted me to put it in, ok but not gonna do much the car has 2 mufflers. He didn't want to pay to cut out the other one. Needless to say he was not happy when it still sounded normal. I got out of cars because of the people. Got tired of being accused of damaging things I didn't, stealing things, on and on.

[Smoke4320]

Brother once left a dodge truck at a dealer to have the trans filter/oil changed (had just went mudding the week before, then washed outside bodywork real good) when to pick his truck up after repair He asked to see the wizard mechanic that worked on his truck.
Service manager looked at him real strange till he said I want to see the mechanic that could pull and reinstall a trans filter thru the drain plug..
There was still mud covering the entire trans including all the bolts
Service manager made a fuss .. Got a call a week or so later wanting to know how the service went .. They hung up when he started explaining they were a rip off ...

[Handloader109]

I do everything I can physically manage on all my vehicles. I bought a new Kia a decade ago. Took it to the dealer for the first service. Checked the oil a week or so later and it was so thick I had to change it twice to get it cleaned up. Never there again. Now a local Ford dealer did good service on my 97 flywheel that was damaged (another one of those recalls that didn't happen). I've a triton that I'm now worried about.....

[ShaneLyall]

I feel your pain. I have a King Ranch sitting in the driveway as we speak in need of cam phaser work.

[Superfly]

Can you post a link to the page with the info you Found I am looking for a newer pickup and would like to be informed


Thanks Much Jaime

[Budzilla 19]

As for Ford 5.4 Triton, I had a company F150 with 125,000 miles on it when I gave it up, never any problems. My second F150 had their 5.0l in it, good engine, no power! Just my .02.

[wv109323]

My father has a 1995 or so Cadillac with the Northstar engine. That engine has a gasket above the oil pan.(modular engine). The car was leaking some oil in the garage. He took it to a GM dealer. The gasket was less than $40.00 but the labor was $2700.00. The labor would have as much as the car is worth.

[Alvarez Kelly]

My father has a 1995 or so Cadillac with the Northstar engine. That engine has a gasket above the oil pan.(modular engine). The car was leaking some oil in the garage. He took it to a GM dealer. The gasket was less than $40.00 but the labor was $2700.00. The labor would have as much as the car is worth.

That is a common problem with that engine. They have to pull the engine to replace that gasket. I almost bought a Caddy with the Northstar engine. A little research sent me running the other way.

[jmort]

Mileage is not great, but the 6.0 Chevy/GMC engine was good on the trucks we used for some heavy construction work. Beat them bad, treated them bad, and they kept ticking. Even the 4L80E transmissions did well under circumstances.

[garym1a2]

I had a 2002 trailblazer with the 4L60E tranny. At 135k miles it started shifting soft. Had a flush done at it was good for a couple weeks. Than it started acting up. So I dropped the pan and changed the filter. Still it was bad so I took it to a large local shop, they said it was the tranny bad and cost will be over 2K for a rebuild.
I decided to goto a tranny shop and the mechanic figured it as the shift solenoids. cost was only $150.
2 years later at 180K miles it started to act up again. So I got two solenoids from Advance for $20/each. Dropped the pan, it was one screw and a connector to remove each solenoid. When I removed the solenoid the plunger was sticking, I pressed it a couple times and it came out with a lot of grey sluge. But it worked and was still working when the truck was traded in at 235k miles.

[Lloyd Smale]

not a truck but brought my Polaris rzr that was under warrantee into the local Polaris dealership to get the oil changed. It was running kind of sour after I got it back and after about 10 miles locked right up. Took it back to the dealer and found out instead of draining the oil the service tech drained the transmittion and dumped more oil into the crank case so I had no oil in the tranny and it was coming out of the motor. they had to put a whole new tranny in it and I was told the tech was fired on the spot.

[dkf]

I changed from 5w20 to 5w30 but it didn't seem to make any difference in the noise. I got the info on trying that from a F150 owners forum but they also indicated that the thicker oil might not be a good idea as the oil ports (?) were undersized and the thicker oil might not flow correctly. IDK about that but I changed back to a 5w20 full synthetic and added some Marvel to it. Personnaly I think that using the slightly thicker oil in the summer when its 90 here wouldn't do anything bad to it. Ford did change the specs on the rear end fluid specifying a full synthetic instead of the regular and changing the viscosity a little. I don't see the big deal as you would change it out if you submerged the axles up to the rocker's anyways at least I would.

The clearances and oil passages are more than fine with the 5w30. Both did not change any from when the engines specd 5w30, it was changed to 5w20 in the early 2000s to try and increase fuel mpg for CAFE. That is it. Matter of fact in the 90s the modulars used to spec 10w30, though there really is no advantage to use a 10w30 over 5w30. If your rear axle specs 75w140 then it is synthetic no matter what you buy. Ford and Sterling seems to like 75w140, Dana seems to like 75w90. My front Dana60 take the 75w90, the rear Sterling 75w140.


Cam phasers ddn't come into play until 2004, my 2001 Triton 5.4 doesn't have them. Just has the crappy plugs and I think I have one that is in need of a helicoil...

Yep the F-150 got the 3V 5.4l in 2004, the F-250 and heavier got it in 2005. The E-series never got any of the 3V engines at all. If your 01' has a stripped spark plug hole the Timesert kit is the best fix for it available. It is not the cheapest nor the least involved but they have been proven to handle abuse and last.(even on engine running high boost levels)

[RogerDat]

Wife had a low speed stalling problem with her Pontiac, ran fine at speed but stalled pulling out of parking space and things like that. Seemed like it could be fuel or spark. So I started with new fuel and air filter, cap, rotor, wires and plugs. All those parts were getting near replacement anyway, got the ECM read and it indicated it could be the O2 sensor. Priced the part at the Pontiac dealer, then read up on it, looked at the location and decided for the labor it would take to replace it better to have the shop do it ( I hate anything screwed into exhaust as a rule). Wife took it to the dealer they came back with a laundry list of parts to replace, including the O2 sensor for $28 more than when I checked at parts counter. Around $1,600 worth of list. Here is the kicker, most of those parts on their list were the ones I had just replaced. We went elsewhere but not before I reamed the service manager. I asked did anyone even open the hood? And do you have blond women pricing on 02 sensors?

Took it to the tire and repair place I usually go to. The took one look and said need an exhaust pipe, see how the hanger broke and the pipe dropped and bent almost closed. And your tie rod ends are totally shot, your tires don't wiggle they shake. Your front wheels are going pidgin toed at low speed and stalling. $400 out the door, with new tires since the old ones got chewed up. Took the old parts with me. Went to the dealer, yanked the ball and socket joint apart and snapped it back together on his desk and pointed out that not only where they less than honest but that they were a danger to the public. My wife was that close to being unable to steer her car.

Going directly to the OP's start. That internet thingy is darn useful for auto issues. Had shop and dealership both tell me I needed a new rear end for my all wheel drive Honda CRV. Big bucks. Went online did a little research and did you know if you buy only 2 new tires and put them on the rear of a Honda all wheel drive the difference in diameter between used and new means they are spinning at different speeds, AWD kicks in thinking the front is slipping, on dry pavement this makes the rear wheels howl.

Just had two quotes on my exhuast system one was $750, expensive because it had two catalytic converters and it was shot from the engine to the muffler. Another shop fixed it for $193. First shop said it was all bad, second shop said section of pipe, hanger, and muffler. Oh and car only has one catalytic converter. Price would have been $20 more if I wanted the muffler with two tail pipes so it would look "sporty". One or two pipes on the muffler work exactly the same.

[MtGun44]

I have done all my own vehicle service and repairs since the late 60s. I figure I have saved in the range of $100,000 over that time, and
the avoided wear and tear on my heart dues to stress that never happened has been wonderful, too.

I DO occasionally have to get a vehicle worked on at a dealer, usually because it is a warranty issue. So far, not too bad, altho there was
the turned rotors that looked like they had been done with a dull cold chisel.....vibrated more after the warranty "fix". I discussed it with
the service advisor, and he immediately offered to do them over. I asked exactly WHAT would be done differently - different tool, different
operator, new cutter on tool, what - because unless something was different, why would I expect a different result? He immediately offered
to install new rotors under warranty, and I agreed.

Some good, some bad, lots in between. I was once working on a female engineer's
Pinto which had failed to start to drive her home after work. A few minutes of
inspection showed nasty rotor and cap, so I offered to show her how to do a tune
up (this was about '77 when such stuff was needed). On Saturday, during the
points, condenser, rotor and cap and sparkplugs and new leads installation..... I asked
who had been maintaining the vehicle previously, afraid that it would be dear old Dad,
and I couldn't slam the bad work. She said, "Oh, I always take it to the great mechanic
that my father has used for many, many years - he won't take his cars to anyone else."

A bit later we found that the rearmost plug, a bit of a bear to get to, was an Autolite when the
front three were Champions.......the "great mech" hadn't ever bothered to change that rear plug
since the poor beast was new (Autolite came from the factory, and that plug was GONE). I broke
it too her gently that the "great mechanic" was either a thief or an incompetent, or maybe both.

Just replaced the rear fuel tank (rusty), new filter and fluid for the auto tranny, and new coolant
in a friend's 98 F350 dually crew cab as part payment on borrowing it for a hauling job this summer.
I figure I saved him $1000 on the work.

Bill

[osteodoc08]

My local Ford dealer is a pleasure to work with and does what is needed. Never had any issues with them.

[s mac]

My local Ford dealer is a pleasure to work with and does what is needed. Never had any issues with them.

Thank you for that, I've worked for a Ford dealership for 28 years and we strive to be fair. We make a living but we don't gouge customers in the process. Everything is high priced these days, not just automotive.

[rockrat]

My Toyota dealer is pretty good. Course, I know the owner and service writers pretty good too. They know I am familar with vehicles (Aircraft A&P at one time)and they treat me well.

[snowwolfe]

My worse story involves my 81 year old mother. Seems she took her 2 year old Honda Accord to the local Honda dealership for a winter tire swap. Service manager came out and told her she should have all 4 brake rotors replaced because they had rust on them. She called me asking for advice. Told her to drive the car home after the tire swap and all the "rust" would be done. Drove home and rotors were shiny:)
Oh, almost forgot. Owned a Plymouth once awhile back. Trannie was making a clunking noise. Service management told me they adjusted the universal joint, lol

[jonp]

Well, the dealer in the $1,650+ quote to replace the cam phasers wanted about $650 for the phasers alone. I ordered them on Ebay and they just arrived. I paid $120 for them. All told instead of the page of parts the dealer wanted to install I got the phasers, 2 valve cover gaskets and a wedge tool to hole the timing chain in place for $165 saving myself $1,500.

I'm going to give it a shot this weekend. I also ordered the entire suspension kit (ball joints, tie rods etc) for my CRV online for $65. I wonder what the cost at the Honda dealer would be just for a ball joint job?

[shoot-n-lead]

Well, the dealer in the $1,650+ quote to replace the cam phasers wanted about $650 for the phasers alone. I ordered them on Ebay and they just arrived. I paid $120 for them. All told instead of the page of parts the dealer wanted to install I got the phasers, 2 valve cover gaskets and a wedge tool to hole the timing chain in place for $165 saving myself $1,500.

I'm going to give it a shot this weekend. I also ordered the entire suspension kit (ball joints, tie rods etc) for my CRV online for $65. I wonder what the cost at the Honda dealer would be just for a ball joint job?

How many miles on it.

It is a lot of work to pull the front off the engine...if it has a lot of miles, I would put the chains and tensioners on it, too. JMO

For the record, I did not need the wedge tool when I did mine...but I had it handy, just in case.

[jonp]

I got the wedge tool as I figured what the heck with the money I saved and it was $25. Looking at it I think I could have ground down a plastic splitting wedge and drilled a hole in the end or used a bungie but that's ok. It has 148k and will need the chains done. When this is over I'm going to order the kit and I found one with everything on ebay for about $200. I only drive it to the dump and around town occasionally so there is no big hurry to get the chains done.

[Plate plinker]

We have a parts distributor in elkhart that a cousin worked for that is were your mark up pricing really starts. Don't recall the numbers but the liner of a corvette hood sells for something like $900 but the buy it for $150? it was a sounding the level of markup they had on each item.

[rr2241tx]

2004 Silverado 2500 HD 4X4 that I bought new. At ~36K the instrument cluster went black. Dealer verified that there was a "silent recall" on them and he could order the part and have the work completed in two days, so I took it to him and hoofed it for 2 days. When I got it back, the passenger wiper spray nozzle was broken off the wiper arm. Would not fix it. OK, glad I won't be needing your services anymore. Sure as night follows day: 72K the instrument cluster goes black again. Called two other dealers and was told that the recall was only good until 70K, but they could do the work in two days for $600. Didn't like that answer, so called a local garage reputed to be reputable and was told that the work would require a "dealer only" part and would take 4-5 days and cost $600. Drove across the street to a discount parts house and ordered a remanufactured part for $300 with a $150 core charge. Filled out enough papers to overload the springs and had to guess the actual mileage because the odometer was not working. The next morning, the part was available and I installed it in the parking lot in 10 minutes, including 8 minutes to watch the YouTube video and wouldn't you know it, the dead part was from the same remanufacturing facility as the one I installed! Walked my core back inside and I'm done for $150. Turns out the odometer reading is stored on the ECU or somewhere because not only did it know the exact mileage (which was a couple thousand less than I guessed), but it also had the trip mileage since I'd bought gas last time.

Same truck, AC fan died a noisy death. Mix door also flapping. Local AC shop says $1K to drop the dash to access the mix door and fan, plus parts. Ended up taking it to a mechanic recommended by my gunsmith and the whole job was $200 including the fan and the mix door problem was a loosely connected wire from the dealer repair several years ago under warranty.

Half this town is college students and the sharks definitely smell blood in the water.

[starmac]

Any shop that stands behind their work is going to charge the customer list price. Likewise anyone can buy the part for 1/2 of list, less if you want to buy off the internet and wait. Many shops will install your part if you supply them, but most will not warranty the labor, and sure don't warranty the part.

[Lloyd Smale]

ive got an extra 2005 instrument cluster with only 10k on the milage you can have for 50 bucks. If they charged you more then 50 bucks to install it they ripped you off. Is about a 10 minute job that any idiot can do.
2004 Silverado 2500 HD 4X4 that I bought new. At ~36K the instrument cluster went black. Dealer verified that there was a "silent recall" on them and he could order the part and have the work completed in two days, so I took it to him and hoofed it for 2 days. When I got it back, the passenger wiper spray nozzle was broken off the wiper arm. Would not fix it. OK, glad I won't be needing your services anymore. Sure as night follows day: 72K the instrument cluster goes black again. Called two other dealers and was told that the recall was only good until 70K, but they could do the work in two days for $600. Didn't like that answer, so called a local garage reputed to be reputable and was told that the work would require a "dealer only" part and would take 4-5 days and cost $600. Drove across the street to a discount parts house and ordered a remanufactured part for $300 with a $150 core charge. Filled out enough papers to overload the springs and had to guess the actual mileage because the odometer was not working. The next morning, the part was available and I installed it in the parking lot in 10 minutes, including 8 minutes to watch the YouTube video and wouldn't you know it, the dead part was from the same remanufacturing facility as the one I installed! Walked my core back inside and I'm done for $150. Turns out the odometer reading is stored on the ECU or somewhere because not only did it know the exact mileage (which was a couple thousand less than I guessed), but it also had the trip mileage since I'd bought gas last time.

Same truck, AC fan died a noisy death. Mix door also flapping. Local AC shop says $1K to drop the dash to access the mix door and fan, plus parts. Ended up taking it to a mechanic recommended by my gunsmith and the whole job was $200 including the fan and the mix door problem was a loosely connected wire from the dealer repair several years ago under warranty.

Half this town is college students and the sharks definitely smell blood in the water.

[30Carbine]

Well I have done a lot of work on those *** 5.4l. and no one really fixes the real problem with them, the real problem with them is the oil pump see you have got a major design problems starting with the aluminum housing and steel gear rotor. when you tear them apart and see the damage inside them you realize real quick that the last thing to get oil is the first thing that goes out. ie cam phasers because of the lack of oil to the top of the engine. now your probable thinking that I have plenty of oil psi on my gauge but what you don't realize is you gauge is not a real gauge. put a real gauge on that engine and you will see the difference right away. putting new phasers in is only a bandaid until the real problem is fixed..

[shoot-n-lead]

Well I have done a lot of work on those *** 5.4l. and no one really fixes the real problem with them, the real problem with them is the oil pump see you have got a major design problems starting with the aluminum housing and steel gear rotor. when you tear them apart and see the damage inside them you realize real quick that the last thing to get oil is the first thing that goes out. ie cam phasers because of the lack of oil to the top of the engine. now your probable thinking that I have plenty of oil psi on my gauge but what you don't realize is you gauge is not a real gauge. put a real gauge on that engine and you will see the difference right away. putting new phasers in is only a bandaid until the real problem is fixed..

At 191k before replacement, of mostly city driving...I am pretty pleased with the life of my cam phasers...and, I guess my oil pump, too.

[castalott]

Ok...I can hear the groans now..... Story off the net....

Woman takes her car to the mechanic that makes a noise like the wheel fell off going around a corner....thump, thump, thump, BANG! Mechanic drives it and it does the same thing. He gets out , opens the trunk, and takes the loose bowling ball out......

No idea what he charged for this....