Dropping Heavy

[sutherpride59]

So I recently purchased an RCBS 452-201-SWC iron mold to try my hand with an iron mold. Well my first problem I used my lee pot and some WW and my bullets dropped at 219 grains!!!!! Holy snot this doesn't happen with my lee 230-TL mold so I did some looking on this forum and realized ok they are going to drop heavy till I add some tin to my alloy. So I went to my local thrift and consignment store and found about 6 pewter cups that weighed 1/2 lbs a piece for a total of $15, score. I went home and weighed them and perfect just a bit over 8oz a piece. So I melted one of these in with a 5lbs ingot of WW and began casting, good fill out and nice bullets, stopped after about 10 and weighed them, 214 grains. JEEZE I assumed this pewter was mostly tin but ok so I added another pewter cup, 209 grains. I continued to add till I hit 201 grain bullets. I figured when I got to the right weigt I would end up close to the 10-1 alloy that RCBS recommends using. I guess adding all the Pewter isn't the worst thing in the world it just seems like I'm wasting a lot of pewter cuz after adding a couple of oz's of pewter the fillout was great and the bullets in a 45 only need to be so hard. I almost feel like these are a bit brittle.

Here is where the fun started. The boolits were dropping great with just the first cup added then as I added cups it got harder and harder to get the boolits out. After a while I cleaned the cavities with some Kroil on a Q-tip. IT GOT WORSE!!! Finally when the mold got too hot I noticed it was actually pulling a small piece of the band off the bullet!!!!! I tried to cool the molds and the bullets started to wrinkle, I turned my pot down and it didn't really change much.

I am so lost, I have a PID setup coming in the mail next week so If it's really just the temp screwing me up that wont be an issue for long. I thought about lee-menting this mold with some JB Bore Paste but I don't feel like that should really be an issue with an RCBS mold. I cant see any visible bur's in the mold.

[Tim357]

First off, don't overthink a few grains extra weight. The weights advertised are nominal weights. Whatever alloy was used to cast them and weigh them is probably lab grade alloy. I use alloy that makes found boolits that don't lead up the bore. I don't care what the boolit weighs as long as it comes out round with a good, sharp base. Seems like a waste of tin in your alloy, but then again, it's not my alloy.

[lightman]

I agree, the weight is not that big of a deal. I am surprised that they weighed that much over. And yeah, you are really wasting tin by adding that much. The reason that they became more difficult to drop from the mold is because of such good fill out and lack of shrinkage.

When I first started casting, my first lead score was a bunch of type metal, mostly foundry and mono. Not knowing ant better I cast bullets with some of it. Talk about purty bullets! They were hard to knock out of the mold and even harder to size.

[sutherpride59]

That makes a lot of sense that they are probably over filled out if you will. I agree that it is a big waste of tin but how else do I get them in the weight range I want. I feel that at that heavy i'm going to have issues using a faster powder like bullseye or tightgroup.

[C. Latch]

There's no way in the world I'd shoot bullets that had that much tin in them.

If you're worried about differences in load data between an actual 201 grain bullet and yours that drop at 219, drop your max charge weight by 5%.

Those 5-lb ingots of WW that you're casting with need an ounce of pewter, at most. Half of that will probably be enough to make shiny bullets that fill out well. Beyond that, you're absolutely wasting tin. Pewter is hard to find as cheaply as you found it. Save it for something else.

[runfiverun]

you got enough tin in there for about 200 lbs of ww alloy.
your tinning the mold and welding everything together.
hopefully this ain't a brass mold.

[MediumCore358]

I would have stopped adding tin the moment I had good fill out then worked up a load with what ever weight that alloy dropped.

[Mk42gunner]

Gunner,

Been a while since I saw the crossed beer bottles.

A few thoughts:

1. I don't think I have ever had a boolit weigh exactly what the nominal weight of the mold is supposed to be. Some are close, most are over by three to five percent. None have been lighter that I can think of right now.

2. Bullseye has been used to load uncountable billions of rounds of .45ACP with anything from 185 to 230 grain projectiles from numerous factories and Gov't arsenals over the last century plus. If you are nervous loading a 219 grain boolit, just use 230 grain data.

3. I'd make new ingots of your tin rich mix (and mark them well) and use them to sweeten the next few pots of plain WW.

Robert

[Leadmelter]

That is a great boolit. Don't sweat the weight. Consistency is the key.
Leadmelter
MI

[fryboy]

So I have a Lyman mold advertising States 180 grains ,Lyman uses #2 alloy as a standard ....with certified #2 alloy my mold drops at 202 grains ...#2 alloy is kind of umm rich for low pressure/velocity loads ,do I add more of the expensive stuff when the original idea was to shoot more cheaper ? So I just played with alloys until I got one that was soft as sin and mushrooms at the low velocity ,as a plus the sizing die barely kisses it,true it is a bit heavier than Lyman states but heck it was with their recommended alloy anyways ,I just figure it adds a lil more thump and destruction to the target ,as if the flying ashtray that turns inside out doesn't do enough lolz which BTW doesn't do it with the rich harder alloy ( mold is the 452-374 DV hollow point )

[sutherpride59]

I figuered it was entirely too rich it's really just aggravating, I planned on getting into bullseye shooting with this mold useing the swc's it drops but I don't know how well that's going to work out I know most of those guys use the 185-200 swc's and this is dropping pretty heavy for 50yard work is what my boss told me. He shoots bullseye and keeps telling me to ditch my molds and buy swaged rounds, I was aiming to prove him wrong. I'm sure these will be plenty accurate but I wonder what the effect will be at 50 yards.

[Mal Paso]

If you haven't shot them, you can add the tin rich bullets to other pots of lead. 1-2% tin is good.

More important is consistency bullet to bullet than being 10% heavier overall.

[lightman]

The heavier bullet will work fine with the faster powders. As others have posted, 230 grain bullets have been used for 100 years. I expect your bullet will shoot fine at 50 yards but the proof is in the shooting, so take a few to the range and try them out.

I'm still surprised that they are that heavy. Have you checked your scale or are you sure you are reading it correctly? Just ruling out the possibilities, no offense meant. Bullets from my RCBS 45-201 weigh 197 grains cast from old wheelweights. It probably is older than yours, made in the 80's.

[LenH]

I have a H & G mold and the alloy used to weigh the bullets was lino. That stuff is too precious to cast bullets wit and I use hardball alloy cut with pure about 60/40.The bullets
made with lino are supposed to weigh 160 gr. With my alloy they are about 168 to 170 grains.

The guy that built my wad gun recommended a 160 grain bullet made by Valiant, they actually weigh about 163 or so, he gave me load data for that bullet of 5.4 gr of Bullseye.
He built the gun for that load and I use it with the H&G bullet of the same profile as the Valiant and they shoot the same. I just weighted the bullets out of curiosity that is all
and never worried about the little bit of extra weight.

I save my lino for alloy mixing.

[OS OK]

Don't let the 'others' influence what you are doing…especially when they get you in the mindset where your trying to 'cross bridges' that you haven't got to yet. Listen to these guys about the mix, enough said about that.
They are trying to shoot fast-n-flat, nothing new to that concept…next thing they will have you switching springs, adding a muzzle brake…before long you will have a 'race gun' looking nothing like what your starting with…and a lot more expensive.
Stay with your first ideas and beat them at their own game. Group thinkers just spend a lot more collectively and will drag you along by the nose if you let them.

OS OK

[imashooter2]

I figuered it was entirely too rich it's really just aggravating, I planned on getting into bullseye shooting with this mold useing the swc's it drops but I don't know how well that's going to work out I know most of those guys use the 185-200 swc's and this is dropping pretty heavy for 50yard work is what my boss told me. He shoots bullseye and keeps telling me to ditch my molds and buy swaged rounds, I was aiming to prove him wrong. I'm sure these will be plenty accurate but I wonder what the effect will be at 50 yards.

Your boss is giving you bad advice. Cast your SWCs at whatever weight they drop. Look for consistent weights, not a particular weight. Load them with any of the classic fast powders that are usually used in Bullseye competition (Alliant Bullseye for instance). Go shoot. Your ammunition will not be the limiting factor on how you place in matches.

[mdi]

FWIW, I don't compare my bullets' weight to the mold maker's listed weight. First, I prolly won't match the alloy the maker used. I may not cast with the temperatures the maker used (melt and mold temps.). And I prolly wouldn't match the maker's method/timing. etc. My biggest concern when casting is little variation in bullet diameter and I usually start with the starting loads when loading a new to me cast bullet/powder combo. No worries about a few grains heavier bullet causing pressure problems...

[sutherpride59]

The heavier bullet will work fine with the faster powders. As others have posted, 230 grain bullets have been used for 100 years. I expect your bullet will shoot fine at 50 yards but the proof is in the shooting, so take a few to the range and try them out.

I'm still surprised that they are that heavy. Have you checked your scale or are you sure you are reading it correctly? Just ruling out the possibilities, no offense meant. Bullets from my RCBS 45-201 weigh 197 grains cast from old wheelweights. It probably is older than yours, made in the 80's.

I didn't double check but I have a beam scale that I will drop a couple of these on and see if I'm getting the same as my digital but I don't imagine its going to change much.

[sutherpride59]

I'm going to load up a hand full of these and see how they do, I melted 10 of these with about 2 pounds of WW and made some more, I'll compare the two when I get the chance but I'm also going to call RCBS today just to make sure everything is ops normal with this mold. I know everyone says it will cast a bit heavy but like I said I'd like to hear it from RCBS just for comfort sake. If it is that is kind of sad, you would think the people who make the equipment would know that the alloys they are suggesting are entirely too hard and a pure waste of tin and antimony. Heck I re-read the part in my mold instructions about the alloy and it said they were made to be used with 10-1 alloy but linotype is a good substitute. That's crazy!!! From what I've learned on this forum you only use pure linotype for magnum rifle rounds and magnum pistol rounds, even then sometimes it's a bit too hard.

[runfiverun]

I couldn't even tell you what most of my molds throw for actual weights.
I can tell you what my rcbs 22-055s and accurate 30-165A mold throws with my alloys.
other than that I got no idea what the other 60 sumthin molds throw.

[Mohawk Daddy]

sutherpride59, I arrived at a similar place by coming in a different door. I also scored a good supply of pewter cheaply, and after that I felt that I was "rich." The problem came from trying to stretch the use of a single mold too far (I think). Bought a Lee C312-185-1R and planned to use it for Mosin-Nagants, a couple of 1891 Argy Mausers, and possibly a Marlin 30/30. (I'm cheap as well as poor). Long story short, I added too much pewter to the pot, the mold cast bullets bigger than I expected (.315) and the boolits were too hard to go through a 311 sizer for the Marlin. (water dropping probably didn't help). I managed to size some to 314 and add gas checks; this will work in one of the Mosins and one of the Argys. The Marlin either needs another mold or softer boolits that will size properly. For me: next time do the math more carefully when making a mix of range lead, pewter, and magnum shot. Good luck to you.

[scottfire1957]

18/7000 of a pound. That makes your boolit 219 gr. Use 225-250gr load data.

[fryboy]

I'm going to load up a hand full of these and see how they do, I melted 10 of these with about 2 pounds of WW and made some more, I'll compare the two when I get the chance but I'm also going to call RCBS today just to make sure everything is ops normal with this mold. I know everyone says it will cast a bit heavy but like I said I'd like to hear it from RCBS just for comfort sake. If it is that is kind of sad, you would think the people who make the equipment would know that the alloys they are suggesting are entirely too hard and a pure waste of tin and antimony. Heck I re-read the part in my mold instructions about the alloy and it said they were made to be used with 10-1 alloy but linotype is a good substitute. That's crazy!!! From what I've learned on this forum you only use pure linotype for magnum rifle rounds and magnum pistol rounds, even then sometimes it's a bit too hard.
Umm lino cast like a dream ...for most of us it's a wee too precious to waste but ...if it was all I had .... I believe i could make it work lolz

[44man]

I have the Lyman 320 gr for my Vaquero and it falls at 347 gr. SO WHAT? Working loads and it uses the same charge as the 335 LBT and 300 Lee. And I just use WW metal.
Weight is not a big deal with cast. Size is what counts. Don't chase your tail! You always work loads anyway.

[DocSavage]

I don't think any of my molds drop the exact weight that the maker claims. I just cast up a batch of bullets from an RCBS block for 7.62x39. RCBS say the bullet should weigh 130gr with gas checks. Weighed a few and guess what bullets weigh between 135 and 137 grs.
Whatever the maker claims as weight I always figure minimum 3% increase in weight. The alloy I use is Lyman no 2 purchased from either Rotometals or Missouri Bullet Co.