Need molds dies for 45colt-rifle application

[edadmartin]

I'm wanting to add a lever gun in 45colt this year and thought I'd start adding dies,6 hole mold ,maybe 2 etc. I'm loading for 45acp now. Will the lee fc die work for 45colt. In my area I'll probably end up with a Rossi 92, don't like online sight unseen buying. should my mold be .452 or larger,same for sizer.also if I powder coat what size smaller should I go to?

[Outpost75]

LFC Die for .45 ACP WILL NOT work for .45 Colt, because .45 Colt max. cartridge diameter is .480:, versus .473" for .45 ACP. A .45 ACP LFC die will size bullets down inside case to be way too small and accuracy will be poor, with leading and keyholes resulting!

I don't know about the chamber and barrel dimensions of Rossi rifles, but .45 Colt rifles in general have sloppy chambers. The throat diameter ahead of the case, before the rifling starts in my H&R .45 Colt Handi Rifle and 1894 Marlin Cowboy run very large, .457-.458," but rounds with bullets larger than .455-.456 will not chamber.

I get best accuracy using .454-.455 bullets, same as I use in my Colt New Service M1909. Cylinder throats of Ruger revolvers run TOO tight, and for best accuracy absolutely MUST be reamed. DougGuy is the best deal for this, I had him ream both .45 ACP and .45 Colt cylinders on my Ruger Blackhawk convertible and Vaquero to .4525" - I cannot speak to powder coat, as I have no experience with it and prefer tumble lubing Lee Liquid Alox or LSStuff 45-45-10 with smokeless and pan lubing 50-50 Goya Manteca and beeswax with black.

For modern revolvers size bullets .452 and for older revolvers and all .45 Colt rifles load bullets as-cast and unsized, IF they chamber and extract loaded rounds freely, typically .455" is best. I use only SOFT alloy, so that slightly undersized bullets will upset to seal the throats, I typically use 50-50 wheelweights and plumber's lead or 1:30 tin/lead from Roto Metals. Using fast-burning powders also helps moderately undersized bullets upset in a large rifle ball seat.

I don't use hot "Ruger Only" or "Rifle Only" loads, because it defeats the purpose of interchangible ammo for rifle and revolver. In the .45 Colt I load 7.2 grains of Bullseye, metered by Rotor #13 from the RCBS Little Dandy Measure, which is a full charge, standard pressure load with 250-260 grain bullet, approximating older factory "Pre Cowboy Mousefart Era" 900-950 fps in a revolver and 1050-1080 or so in the rifle, which is quite "enough."

Being able to use any soft scrap alloy and getting nearly 1000 rounds to a pound of powder is attractive. Factory .45 Colt and ACP loads were assembled with Bullseye powder for 100 years, there is no need to change from a proven formula that works. Load 5 grains in .45 ACP to approximate hardball energy with 230-grain bullet, 7 grains in .45 Colt with 250-260 grain bullet.

I don't use Keith type SWCs because they do not feed reliably in the levergun. I use rounded flat-nosed Cowboy style bullets with a large meplat, not less than 0.6 of the bullet diameter, and not larger than 0.7 of bullet diameter, because the very large meplats do not give good 100+ yard accuracy in the rifle. It is absolutely necessary that bullets to be used in revolvers and tubular magazine rifles have a crimp groove.

These are bullets I use in .45 Colt, which are suitable for loading either smokeless or black powder, having adequate lube capacity. For dies I use the RCBS Cowboy Die set, because it does not over-work the brass, as modern sets intended for loading jacketed bullets do. I have an extra old style .45 Auto Rim roll crimp seater, which I recommend that you special order to use for .45 ACP and Auto Rim revolver loads. A taper crimp is OK for autopistols, but is less than ideal for revolver use.

I don't use the Lee Factory Crimp Die in .45 Colt because chamber sizes are universally large, read that "huge, because they are cut to black powder tolerances" and the factory crimp die is neither required, nor recommended in this case. You want SOFT, FAT bullets loaded to standard pressure and velocity.

If you need supersonic rifle velocities buy a .44 Magnum!


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[edadmartin]

Thanks for all the good info on the factory crimp die vs roll crimp now which brand roll crimp is available? I'm searching for .454-5 boolit molds now, thanks for the part numbers.

[454PB]

With regard to powder coating, you will see an increase from the "as cast" diameter of around .004". If you use a press mounted sizing die (like the Lee), that is no problem.....they can be sized down .005" with no visible damage, but a dedicated lubrisizer will be somewhat stressed doing that much.

If you're going to custom order a mould to use for powder coated boolits, I'd suggest one that drops a .451" boolit. That would allow sizing from .455" on down.

My .45 lever gun is a Puma in .454 Casull, and it shoots very well with boolits sized .452".

[Outpost75]

The RCBS Cowboy dies in the brown box are correct for lead bullets and do not work the brass excessively. They will size .45 ACP, Auto Rim, Schofield and .455 Colt or Cowboy Special adequately for lead bullets. To roll crimp ACP or Auto Rim brass for revolver use, you want to order a separate .45 Auto Rim roll crimp seater. This is also correct for the .45 Cowboy Special and. 455 Colt and can be backed off for use on Schofield or .45 Colt.

[jcren]

Before ya go too crazy with a custom mold, give the Lee tl452-230 tc a try. Shoots like a dream in my FIL circuit judge carbine and another 45 he has, I pc and size .452 for his stuff (same as my acp's) and over 9 grains of unique it will slobber knock a hog.

[runfiverun]

i'll go with a different tact.
if your getting a Rossi then a 452 size will be fine, the lee 250gr rnfp is their version of the 452664 and you'll be hard pressed to find anything better [the 45 260-M outpost shows is the correct diameter version of the lyman, lyman seems to have an issue making molds throw anything close to right so they just change the number]
the 452664 used to be the 454664

now if your getting the taurossi then I'd wait to get the gun in hand and order my sizers and mold after cleaning it up and measuring it.

[TXGunNut]

My Ruger 45 Colt NMBH likes .452 boolits just fine. It also likes the RD/Lee 454-290. Use what you have and if that doesn't work try something else. NOE did a run of the RD 454-290 awhile back, I have one but haven't tried it yet. RD designs are hard-hitting hunting boolits. They work.

[JeffinNZ]

Good advice Outpost75. Especially the bit about .44 Magnum.

[45-70 Chevroner]

I agree with Outpost about the 44 Mag. The 45 Colt can be a real boomer in the Rossi but the 44 Mag has the edge.