CB Hardness for a 1911

[Lonestar22]

I have read that .45ACP bullets shot through a 1911 need to be hard, as the harder bullet will grip the shallow rifling more efficiently. If that is true, how hard does a CB need to be?
I cast, using WW’s + 2% Tin, and air curing, then load in the 750fps-850fps range for target shooting.

[UweJ]

Hello Lonestar
I don´t believe the bullet has to be to hard for the 1911. BH should be around 8-10 for a .45ACP. Your WW´s are hard enough for that . If the boolit is to hard chances are it won`t
grip at all. Very important is that you fit the diameter of the boolit to your gun, you might want to slug your barrel.
I shoot competition with plain WW´s . 200grain SWC over 4.5grains of Bullseye.
Hope this helps a bit.
Uwe

[runfiverun]

if you are running dick casulls loads with blue-dot and a 22lb recoil spring you will
be fine with ww's and 1%sn

[Ricochet]

I cast mine out of very soft scrap. It hardens some when I water drop it, as it isn't strictly pure lead, but it's pretty close. 230 grain Lee boolits I cast last night weigh 240 grains.

The .45 isn't really demanding of great hardness, mainly because the working pressure's low.

[bobthenailer]

must of shot almost 100,000 45 acp cast bullets, ive allways used straight ww water dropped , must of owned at least 10 1911 over the years, still have 6 , i shot BE and action pistol and bowling pins , with mine. i have 4 different moulds for the 45 acp 3 saeco a 170 gr, 200 gr , 215 gr and a rcbs 230 gr. BE works very well as does tightgroup but my favorite powder is ww super light , 5.0 gr is a tack driver with all bullets and pistols, 4.5gr with the 230 gr bullet

[looseprojectile]

I have had wonderful results with an old Lyman 452 460 BM mould. It is a 200 grain semi wad cutter sized to .452. 1 inch at 20 yards in a Taurus PT 1911 and a Para ordnance compact 45 . The only load I use is four grains of Bullseye.
Seat the boolit front band about twenty thousandths out of the case and slightly taper crimp. Use just enough tin or linotype in your melt, pure or WW to fill out good. These are fairly soft. I am still using the thumbnail hardness tester.
Hope this helps.
Life is good

[trickyasafox]

I water drop WW and size at .452- works great for my 1911

[DLCTEX]

Air cooled WW work fine for me. DALE

[405]

The bullet hardness may also have something to do with reliable feed- just don't know. Seems the most critical parts of shooting cast through the 1911 are: best OAL for feeding and chambering, correct bullet diameter for chambering, correct case length, correct taper crimp, best bullet shape, spring that matches range of bullet weights/powders.

Having said that- I shoot a 180gr PB cast RN with very small meplat out of my Colt in the velocity ranges you're talking about. The OAL is 1.165 and the sized bullet diameter is .451. The cartridge is taper crimped. The hardness of the bullet is BHN 20 +/-. The gun has about a 14-15 # spring. The barrel is a Storm Lake SS. That combination with med load of fast powder has proven extremely reliable and accurate. Leading, fouling is minimal to non-existent.

[NVcurmudgeon]

H&G #68, 200 gr. SWC, air cooled WW, Javelina NRA Alox, 4.25 gr. 231. Excellent accuracy, no leading, and works in my Gold Cup with 15# spring. For a carry practice load I use Lyman 452374 230 gr. RN and a maximum load of 231, all other particulars as above.

[R.M.]

The Star swedged SWC used by many Bullseye compitition shooters are dead soft.
What's that tell us?[smilie=1:

[HeavyMetal]

I think your alloy's just fine they way it is! If you haven't cast straight WW you might give it a try but I think you'll go back to your original alloy cause it will fill out easier!

By the way Tin does not harden boolit alloy, it allows it to flow better thus making nice sharp edges in your casting efforts. You can add to much tin and I think your right on the ragged edge at 2%.

The hardening "agent" is Antimony and WW have plenty of that. If your air cooling your alloy and haven't had a leading problem leave everything alone and continue what your doing cause your doing it right!

If you encounter leading you can play with different sizing dies ( .451,.452,.453,) I think you see where I'm going. You can also water drop these which will harden the antimony in the WW, just be careful about how close you get water to you lead pot!

I hope this info helps.

[kooz]

I have been using the LEE 230TC with 5gr WW231 with no leading at all and they have been extremely accurate. These bullets are made of range scrap, LEE hardness tester says about 8 BHN.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive tested gaziillions of bullets in acps in just about every alloy possible and have found that i do get better accuracy for the most part with harder bullets. You might find a gun that prefers one bullet at out of a softer alloy but for the most part i get my best accuracy with at least a bullet cast out of #2. You can get away with a much softer bullet if your consern is leading but harder just does seem to shoot a tad better.

[DonH]

The bullet hardness may also have something to do with reliable feed- just don't know. Seems the most critical parts of shooting cast through the 1911 are: best OAL for feeding and chambering, correct bullet diameter for chambering, correct case length, correct taper crimp, best bullet shape, spring that matches range of bullet weights/powders.



I have never seen a .45 ACP case that was spec'd length, course I gave up measuring them years ago. I started out thinking cases needed to be match prepped and started measuring to determine what length to set a trimmer up for but found all cases to be considerably short. Then I looked at the quantity of brass that would need to be "uniformed" and suddenly got lazy. As years went by and proficiency progressed I came to believe case length to be not so important and stopped thinking about it.
Concerning O.A.L., a trick I picked up from old bullseye shooters is to headspace the round on the bullet rather than the case mouth. With the barrel out of the gun and turned muzzle downward, the bullet is seated into the case until the case head is fluxh with the barrel hood. With H&G 68 and 130 and thier Lyman equivalents as well as the Lyman 452460, feeding has not been an issue as long as the gun is clean, oiled and properly held. Bullet alloy has been mostly WW but nore recently has been range scrap of 9-10 bhn.
There are many ways to get to the same place but having been able to shoot score as high as low 290s on the NRA National Match course (one handed, offhand) has given me confidence in my method.

[Dale53]

DonH is absolutely correct on bullet seating depth for the .45 ACP (1911 platform). As he suggests, seat the bullet until the case head is flush with the barrel hood (dropping the cartridge in of its own weight). Any slight irregularities of overall length will be handled by the slide pushing the bullet into the lead. Ignition is extremely consistent and that leads to better accuracy.

This method works whether you are shooting "soft" match loads or full house loads.

One caveat: you may have trouble using jacketed bullets in this manner. They are unforgiving for overall length and for reliability you must give a bit more clearance (seat a bit below the hood) as the jacketed bullet WILL NOT "press" into the lead (pronounced LEED) as lead will.

Dale53