??? Alloy to stock up ???

[6622729]

So I have what may be a lifetime supply of COWW and pounds of Linotype and Monotype/Foundry to alloy it with. However, if I did want to put away ingots of specific known content, what would you buy? I'm casting for 9mm handgun (900fps) and 30 caliber (300AAC) rifle (1850fps gas checked).

[454PB]

I'm pretty much the same, and have enough to last my life. But, if I was going to "stock up", I'd go with hardball.

[reddog81]

Based on the fact you already have a lifetime supply of what you need i'm not sure why you would be buying more...
If you want to buy more alloy just to have extra i'd stock up on whatever I could find at a discount compared to market prices. Worse case scenario you can turn around and sell it for more than you paid...
Out of curiosity what do you consider a lifetime supply to be?

[6622729]

Let me characterize me first. I am strictly a paper target shooter. My rifles are almost all AR's that I built. Handgun is primarily 9mm. The nearest outdoor range is an hour away. In rifle I shoot 3 rounds, take a look, adjust, shoot 3 rounds. That is, I take 3 shots, not a burst of 3 rounds. If the barrel gets warm I let it cool. I am never a blaster who just lets loose with round upon round. In handgun it's 5 rounds then adjust, 5 rounds... I will shoot between 30-100 rounds rifle and/or maybe 100 rounds 9mm per visit to the range. At that rate, the 600, maybe 700lbs of COWW (ingots), Lino(raw) and Mono/Foundry(raw) on hand is probably more than a lifetime supply.

On the other hand, I have been told I have access to a 1500+yd range so there might be some long range steel shooting which will consume a lot more rounds AND I have started messing with 50 yd handgun which is also eating more rounds so my lead use is subject to a good swing greater.

In any case, lead could someday be outlawed or otherwise become unavailable or could simply become much more expensive. So, if I wanted to replace the stuff I am alloying myself with commercially available alloyed ingots, I am looking for input.

Rotometals Hardball or Lyman #2 come to mind quickly.

[runfiverun]

the hardball would be the easiest to get.
so would pigs of pure lead.

I'd get a 50-50 mix of those two.
then you can use some or both to make an alloy quite like ww's with tin or just a bit harder with less lead added.

if I was down to 700 lbs of lead I'd just cast what I had into boolits.
then sell off my molds and pots and sizers and be done with it.

[bangerjim]

As said, if you have what you think is a "lifetime supply" why buy more? I am not adding anyting to my huge stach anymore.

The only thing you could use with all the COWW pile is PURE Sn. Better than lino or anything else to add for fill-out. You do not need more Sb, so hardball would be a waste. Just get some Sn in either pure bars or pewter ingots.


And Pb will always be around! Our industrial engine in this country could not run without it. Some loony liberal left-wing states may ban it, but it will always be avaialble on-line from somewhere somehow.

banger

[Hardcast416taylor]

If you have an adequate supply, your words, on hand of the other types of lead to use I would lay in an adequate amount of soft lead to alloy in with the other leads if need be or for a muzzle loader.Robert

[6622729]

I can always hand it down and it could end up being an investment. It doesn't help that I am seriously OCD either. I'll use 10lbs and order 50lbs more. That's how I got in this mess. Lol.

[dondiego]

Unless you are over 90 years old, I wouldn't consider 700 pounds to be a lifetime supply. I would keep stockpiling all of the alloys that you can find, especially when you see a good price. You can always resell or trade it.

[Mk42gunner]

IF and it is a big IF, you do in fact have a lifetime supply of lead-ish alloy; do you have lifetime supplies of the other components? Like brass, primers, powder? Even boolit lube.

But I have to agree with bangerjim, tin makes a very good addition to WW. It doesn't take much either.

Robert

[fredj338]

I am 60, 600# would not be a lifetime supply, unless I died next year.[smilie=p: The way lead is disappearing from the cheap/free world, I would stock what ever I could find cheap or free. I have about 1100# of various alloys, I am always on the lookout for more. I shoot about 8-9k rds a year, mostly lead bullets, so that will only last me about 5yrs. I don't think there is a lifetime supply.

[RogerDat]

Soft lead or WW's are both good basic ingredients. Tin as mentioned is useful, especially since printers lead tends to be a bit too high a percentage of antimony for the tin percentage. I personally would scrounge but... if you wanted to purchase I think you should start with the swapping and selling section here. All three of the afore mentioned ingredients are available at better prices than you would get from a commercial supplier.

I would also leave the ingredients separate, at least most of them. You may find you want to try powder coating which will allow you to use softer lead, or get more into the long range shooting, or buy a 45 and want some slightly softer alloy. You can always add more of one thing or another to the current batch but you won't get the tin and antimony back out.

I keep a couple hundred pound of alloy in ready to use forms, the rest is whatever alloy it started out as ready to be used as a raw ingredient in a batch of casting alloy. This tend to allow me to repeat a recipe if I find one I like while still being able to try something new for a new mold or firearm. For a rich alloy I can always cut for other uses I tend to favor Lyman #2 since it is balanced. Being 5% Sn and Sb it can be cut with either COWW to end up with something pretty hard for rifle, or with plain to come down to just under 2% Sn/Sb and that is close to 50/50 WW/Pb +2% tin. A very popular pistol alloy. Might be a little soft for your 9mm but just don't come down as far Or throw in a bit more of the nice type metal to harden it a bit. See that is why you keep it separate.

I won't generally say ignore runfiverun but in this case you are dealing with a man whom I am fairly sure has more lead in the sprues that got dropped and tossed in a bucket when cleaning up than many have in their whole stash. That does not mean he is wrong. Just comes from a sort of fantasy island perspective. If you decide to cast 255 grain 45 caliber you would only be getting 27 per pound, so 20.5 lbs. would be around 550. Call it 11 boxes, so how long would that last? I would get it whenever I can at a good price unless the funds had a better use elsewhere. If you can't use it you can sell or trade it. The dies and brass I use to load 44 mag for one of the kids was a trade for lead. Heck I picked up 35 lbs. of mono/foundry mixed because the price was good, I'll use it or sell it and buy something else knowing I kept that good casting printers lead from becoming battery terminals.

[runfiverun]

are you saying that cause I'm at the 8-k mark of loading up 10-k 9m rounds right now, or because i'll be doing 10-k 45 acp next?
or is it perhaps that i'll be doing 3-4 k 40 S&W after those and don't even own one.

wait,,, I got it, it's because I don't have to cast any boolits to load them,
or go to the store to buy any brass/powder/primers either before nor afterwards.
:bigsmyl2:

[rancher1913]

banger may be right in that lead will always be around, but at what price. if I come across some at a good price and I have the money I pick it up and add it to the pile. lead most probably will never be cheaper than it is right now and it don't go bad. probably a better investment right now than silver.

[Bullwolf]

So I have what may be a lifetime supply of COWW and pounds of Linotype and Monotype/Foundry to alloy it with. However, if I did want to put away ingots of specific known content, what would you buy? I'm casting for 9mm handgun (900fps) and 30 caliber (300AAC) rifle (1850fps gas checked).

A shooting & casting buddy recently asked me a similar question.

I told him to pick up a 50/50 split of Hardball Alloy Ingots, and Pure Lead ingots.
(From Roto-Metals since they'll ship for free if you order over $99)

Figured if he needs softer, or to stretch it out he can alloy Hardball and Pure Lead. If he wants a ready to cast alloy, he can just cast with plain old Hardball. If harder still, or more Tin is needed, then he can mix in some type metal.

If money isn't an object, I would have said just buy Lyman #2, as its a fine but expensive casting alloy, and not worry much about adding any extra Tin

It's nice to have some inexpensive soft lead on hand to dilute a rich alloy with.

For those who don't mind doing the dirty work, and don't need or want a certified alloy you can probably find lead cheaper by scrounging, or from a scrap yard.



- Bullwolf

[6622729]

IF and it is a big IF, you do in fact have a lifetime supply of lead-ish alloy; do you have lifetime supplies of the other components? Like brass, primers, powder? Even boolit lube.

But I have to agree with bangerjim, tin makes a very good addition to WW. It doesn't take much either.

Robert

Brass, primers, powder? Check! Yes, I have a lifetime supply. Boolit lube is 45/45/10 so Xlox/Alox, Johnson paste wax and mineral spirits. Wouldn't surprise me if real mineral spirits were to become difficult to acquire. They already have some sort of substitute on the shelves around here.

[WRideout]

At the club I belong to, they don't care if I mine the backstop at the pistol range. Whenever possible, I try to bring home more lead than I deposit. As long as the equilibrium is in the positive direction, I consider this a lifetime supply. Range scrap turns into a very soft lead ingot, and the jackets sell at the scrap yard for the going rate for copper.

Wayne

[6622729]

At the club I belong to, they don't care if I mine the backstop at the pistol range. Whenever possible, I try to bring home more lead than I deposit. As long as the equilibrium is in the positive direction, I consider this a lifetime supply. Range scrap turns into a very soft lead ingot, and the jackets sell at the scrap yard for the going rate for copper.

Wayne

Yeah, I don't care to get into smelting. I can see the attraction for sure though and I like the logic. It's the same thing that causes me to want to buy more lead even though I've only cast about 10# of my supply in the last week or so. I want the net weight of lead on hand to be positive just as you said.

[runfiverun]

god don't use that water based GREEN replacement stuff to make 45/45/ lube.
you'll just ruin it and have to throw it away.
spend the 8 bucks and buy a quart now, that should be enough to last about 10 trillion boolits worth of the 45/45 lube.

[Cowboy_Dan]

This is jmho, but for anyone who is worried that lead may disappear, I would suggest buying pure because Sb and Sn are highly unlikely to get banned. Why tie up money in metals that can still be acquired after lead becomes scarce? Of course, since I'm just starting out I grab all of everything I can afford. Up to 400# now [smilie=w:

[Oklahoma Rebel]

I agree with some here ,why get more than you need, I have a long life of reloading ahead of my, age 29, and I have a whopping 200lbs, I shoot a 45-70 with 405-425gr boolits, and am about to start loading for my .38 then the mosin nagant. so save some lead for use little guys with no money. I understand you want to be secure. but you can get to the point of going overboard! but if you do continue your quest, good luck to you

[6622729]

god don't use that water based GREEN replacement stuff to make 45/45/ lube.
you'll just ruin it and have to throw it away.
spend the 8 bucks and buy a quart now, that should be enough to last about 10 trillion boolits worth of the 45/45 lube.

That 45/45/10 goes a LONG way! I know better than to use anything less than real mineral spirits. I should probably go ahead and measure out the remainder of the Xlox bottle and cook up the rest into a finished product then I can forget about lube for life. Lol.

So, getting back to the alloy question. I went home at lunchtime and reviewed my stockpile. I could probably do nothing about future lead and have enough lead for life. I have pretty strong quantities of FMJ projectiles in several calibers as well. I think if I add lead from here forward it will be certified Lyman #2 from Rotometals. Right now it's $2.55 a pound for a 125lb purchase and free shipping. That's a $320 purchase. I can swing that.

[runfiverun]

and you can double it with some pure lead.
2.5/2.5 is a good alloy for a ton of things, and cheaper in the long run.

[RogerDat]

are you saying that cause I'm at the 8-k mark of loading up 10-k 9m rounds right now, or because i'll be doing 10-k 45 acp next?
or is it perhaps that i'll be doing 3-4 k 40 S&W after those and don't even own one.

wait,,, I got it, it's because I don't have to cast any boolits to load them,
or go to the store to buy any brass/powder/primers either before nor afterwards.
:bigsmyl2:

:holysheep

Well we are both working on a lead stash of 10,000 pounds, you just happen to be ahead right now. Come to think of it most of us are still "working" on that 10k lbs. of stash. Some still working on the first 1k others a little tiny bit further along.

I thought I was doing a good job for spring casting 1k of 38 swc and 500 each in a couple of styles of 45.
Couple hundred 44 mag swc to finish out the spring fling.
Of course I am loading for revolver rather than bottom feeding magazine fed lead disposal systems. :kidding:

Yep primers are the key ingredient I am focusing on accumulating right now. Can fudge around with assorted powders and find something that will work, have a good supply of brass, always trying to add just a bit more brass, but that never ends especially the necked stuff. The rounds can be loaded with any one of several powders on hand but they always need a primer, of the right size, for each and every round. To balance against the lead I need a bit over 100k worth of primers. That is going to cost a bit, and take some time, but what the heck a man needs goals right?

[jimb16]

Wow! You guys make me feel like a hoarder! I've got almost 3000 pounds of prepared bullet metal in reserve. And I don't think I've got enough yet. But then I got through around 200 rounds/week plus I make my own shot for skeet (3 rounds/week [75 shots]). I spread a lot of toxic material around.

[labradigger1]

Wow! You guys make me feel like a hoarder! I've got almost 3000 pounds of prepared bullet metal in reserve. And I don't think I've got enough yet. But then I got through around 200 rounds/week plus I make my own shot for skeet (3 rounds/week [75 shots]). I spread a lot of toxic material around.

Me too. I traded an 1873 Springfield for about 3500 lbs of lead last year and added it to the ample supply I already had including a few hundred pounds of Lino and maybe a hundred pounds of tin.
I'm always looking for pure, not that I need it but with Lino and tin I can make any alloy I want.

[RogerDat]

I keep my inventory on a spread sheet. Easier to sub total the different source alloys. Plain, lino, WW's etc. I was thinking of plugging the whole thing into the alloy calculator just to see what it would make. My goal along the way was to try to make it so the entire she-bang if mixed would yield 3/3/94 not because I was going to make only that but because that middle of the road alloy would keep me from getting over invested in plain, printers type, or solder. Some revolver stuff was going to be lower percentage of alloy, some rifle higher so 3/3/94 seemed about the right target for may overall stash goal.

Last time I totaled the solder, pewter, Sn alloys it worked out to being 50% Sn if the whole batch was melted. Have added some pewter since then, but also some 10% solder so maybe it is time to re-trigger the summary.

The secret is to not waste money so you have it for a good deal, always purchase more than you use so that the reserve is steadily growing. Like the shooter that mines the berm to bring home a bit more than he shot. Even if you save for some specific goal for awhile, then use that money to purchase from S&S or Rotometals it is the consistently adding more than used that builds stuff up. Of course running into a ship keel or tractor weight don't hurt either.

[Lloyd Smale]

thought I had a life time supply about 20 years ago. Funny thing is that I used that much in 5 years. Keep collecting those ww's you can never have enough

[lightman]

Thats a hard question to answer. Most of us will continue to hoard lead until they throw dirt over us! If you are comfortable with what you have collected you might consider stopping your buying and continue to look for free or cheap. Looking at the alloys that you have I see a lack of soft lead. That might be a place to start. As others have mentioned, tin is always welcome.

[6622729]

Thats a hard question to answer. Most of us will continue to hoard lead until they throw dirt over us! If you are comfortable with what you have collected you might consider stopping your buying and continue to look for free or cheap. Looking at the alloys that you have I see a lack of soft lead. That might be a place to start. As others have mentioned, tin is always welcome.

I couldn't stop myself. I picked up 96lbs of isotope lead today. $1.58/lb delivered. Supposed to be about the same as COWW properties.

[lightman]

Yup, its addictive! The isotope lead that I have is super clean and cast good bullets just as it is.

[imashooter2]

I've stored enough past enough that I've stopped actively looking. Of course, if I trip over something at the right price it's not like the stuff spoils....

[6622729]

Yup, its addictive! The isotope lead that I have is super clean and cast good bullets just as it is.

Yes, this stuff looks very clean as well. It's a nice 96lb. addition to the stack.

166707

[RogerDat]

Once you get to a certain point it does pay to get selective. Buying the good stuff like tin, printers, or nice clean plain lead. The free or super good deal is never a bad idea. Maybe pick up the occasional bucket of WW's just to maintain the relationship with a source and replace some/most/a bit more than you use for shooting. If nothing else it does have some swapping and horse trading value in the S&S forum. If you are lucky enough to not need some good lead you find at a good price you can always get it and move it on to other casters on the site.

Long term supply is one of the reasons I use bread pan ingots, too large to use as is in a casting pot but good for storing larger quantities. Also easier for me to ship or heirs to dispose of 12 lb. slabs than buckets of smaller ingots. Oh and labeling, I am not going to stamp 120 1# ingots I will stamp 10 12# ingots :-)

Specifically to the OP's question. One of these days I'm going to go out and mix up some big batches of specific alloys. For me that will be (in order) Lyman #2, 50/50 WW/Pb + 1.4% tin, 3/3/94, and hardball. Hardball just because it is easy to make from Linotype. I will not use up more than 50% of my raw ingredients making these batches. I want to preserve some options. One thing that influences me is a lot of my "good" stuff is printers lead already in ingots. Not especially good form for swapping or selling so I might as well use some of it up making stuff I can get xrf gunned and then will know it is useful and ready to go alloy. Gives me time to adjust it if I'm off a bit on the alloy percentages too.

[6622729]

You guys are a terrible influence. I bought 96lbs of isotope lead I didn't need yesterday for $1.58/lb delivered and today I grabbed 125lbs of antimony lead for $1.10/lb delivered.

166717