Best bullseye round

[sutherpride59]

So I've done some research on old threads in this forum and I've found some good recipes for an rcbs 452-201-swc but none has really said what the best hardness is to shoot for with their loads. I've been useing 50/50 WW and pure lead for my lee 452-230-tc rounds over 6.4 grains of power pistol with good success. However using a lower power load like 3.5grains of bullseye or 4 grains of tightgroup the lead is going to need to be softer to obturate wont it? And if so what hardness should I shoot for? I don't have a hardness tester just yet but that is already in the mail on its way. I'm going to be shooting this out of my government 1911 with a freshly fitted kart barrel. I plan on useing lee liquid alox like I have been for all my other bullets unless pan lubing with 45/45/10 will give me better results. I just got home from 2 days of back to back duty so I apologize for the lack of organization in my thoughts.

[dverna]

If you size the bullet larger than the barrel you do not need to mash the bullet to make it fit. I would not worry about it and use your current alloy.

[sutherpride59]

I'm sure my current alloy will work fine but I would like to get as close to perfect as I can. I know my gun will outshoot me but I would like to spend my effort casting the best bullets I can. Changing the alloy is minimal amount of work to shrink my groups a hair and if they shrink any I would consider that a good return on investment.

[44MAG#1]

"I'm sure my current alloy will work fine but I would like to get as close to perfect as I can. I know my gun will outshoot me but I would like to spend my effort casting the best bullets I can. Changing the alloy is minimal amount of work to shrink my groups a hair and if they shrink any I would consider that a good return on investment."
First, let me ask, how well can you shoot standing with a one hand hold at twenty five yards for five ten round groups?
How well can you shoot standing with a two hand hold for five ten round groups at twenty five yards?
Where would you rate as an NRA bullseye competitor?
Unless you are a very good shot, which you may be one, unless your alloy change makes a very significant improvement you probably will not be able to tell the difference.
The biggest problem in shooting well, provided you don't have a load that is just totally unacceptable, is the shooter NOT THE GUN OR LOAD.
Lets say with your gun in a PROPERLY SET-UP Ransom rest your alloy with a proper bullseye load will hold one and a quarter inch ten shot groups at twenty five yards and with an alloy change it will hold a one inch ten
shot group at twenty five yards how do you think it will affect your offhand standing ability?
It will help very little to none if you are a mediocre shot and a little if you are way above average. And by way above I mean WAY ABOVE.
There is no free lunches on the way to getting good. As always the way to better shooting is the refining of oneself the vast majority of the time.
You may be the next greatest handgun shot already and can shoot well enough to be able to tell the difference in a load with just a piddling increase in accuracy. Who knows.
I am saying all this to get you to understand that most handgun shooters will make a lot more progress if they practice more and in the process tweak themselves instead of spending a lot of time plastered on the sandbagged bench looking for the holy grail of loads.
But, if that is what you want to do I wish you the very best of luck.
More power to you.

[dondiego]

The fit of the boolit is more important than your alloy at that velocity.

[runfiverun]

you don't pan lube with 45/45 lube it is a substitute for the alox.
all you need is for the boolit to fit the barrel well enough to prevent gas cutting, and for it to be hard enough to grab the rifling and spin up to be stabilized without trying to jump the lands.

most bulls-eye competitors I ever talked to told me that recoil slightly changing their grip from shot to shot was the biggest factor they faced in good scores.
changing how the recoil impulse and how much of it there was would give them more x's and fewer 9's.

[mdi]

I believe a gun must be more accurate than the shooter. If I wanna hit what I'm aiming at, be it a tin can or a 1/2" bullseye, I want the gun to be as accurate as possible. I can't keep 4" groups off hand, classic "Bullseye Stance" with any gun, but I want my guns to be able to. So, I may improve my abilities, but if my gun can't, why bother?

[Char-Gar]

If you size the bullet larger than the barrel you do not need to mash the bullet to make it fit. I would not worry about it and use your current alloy.

This gentleman has it right! Folks confuse revolvers and autopistols when it comes to this issue. Size your bullets .452 which will be larger than the nominal .450 - .451 barrel groove and you will be good to go.

If you want to try and shrink your groups, make certain you have uniform case length of the same make, use a .451 or .452 case expander and be certain to taper crimp.

If you have good castings and a good lube, then all that is left is finding the sweet spot for the powder charge and then practice.

[44MAG#1]

"I believe a gun must be more accurate than the shooter. If I wanna hit what I'm aiming at, be it a tin can or a 1/2" bullseye, I want the gun to be as accurate as possible. I can't keep 4" groups off hand, classic "Bullseye Stance" with any gun, but I want my guns to be able to. So, I may improve my abilities, but if my gun can't, why bother?"

Okay think about it. If you have a load that will do one and a quarter at twenty five and one that will do one inch at twenty five and you cant keep four inch groups off hand how can you tell the difference. You aren't good enough.
Unless you can shoot extremely well you aren't good enough to worry about load development you need shooter development.
You would be far, far, far, far better off working on yourself than the load looking for the holy grail of loads that will make up for the shooter problems.
Not picking on you but it goes for me, you and everyone else that thinks playing with loads will somehow turn a mediocre shooting into a hot shot.
It does not happen. Not in real life.

[lightman]

I agree, size to .452 and go with it. Wheelweight alloy with 1 or 2% tin should work great. Any alloy between that and what you are using should work great if the bases of your bullet fills out sharply. Bullseye was the standard 45 powder for decades and still works fine. So does Winchester 231. Your bullet choice should be fine but you might try one of the 185 grain H&G 130 clones. Do you weigh your bullets and select those that are near the same weight? Have you considered buying a custom mold like an Accurate with a diameter of .453 so you can size back to .452? Maybe in one of the H&G clones like a 130 or a 68? Wheelweight alloy falls out of my RCBS 45-201 mold at .451.

[Alstep]

I'm using the same mould and alloy, sizing in a Lee .4515 die, 45-45-10 swoosh & shake lube, over 4.0 Bullseye, no problems. Shoots better than I can hold. So keep on shooting, don't worry about your load. Spend your off time dry firing.

[sutherpride59]

you don't pan lube with 45/45 lube it is a substitute for the alox.


Sorry someone mentioned it on a thread I had just read and it was still on my mind, I meant Ben's red or another suitable soft lube.

[sutherpride59]

"I believe a gun must be more accurate than the shooter. If I wanna hit what I'm aiming at, be it a tin can or a 1/2" bullseye, I want the gun to be as accurate as possible. I can't keep 4" groups off hand, classic "Bullseye Stance" with any gun, but I want my guns to be able to. So, I may improve my abilities, but if my gun can't, why bother?"

Okay think about it. If you have a load that will do one and a quarter at twenty five and one that will do one inch at twenty five and you cant keep four inch groups off hand how can you tell the difference. You aren't good enough.
Unless you can shoot extremely well you aren't good enough to worry about load development you need shooter development.
You would be far, far, far, far better off working on yourself than the load looking for the holy grail of loads that will make up for the shooter problems.
Not picking on you but it goes for me, you and everyone else that thinks playing with loads will somehow turn a mediocre shooting into a hot shot.
It does not happen. Not in real life.




I don't shoot bullseye yet but I have been thinking about getting into it. The best I've shot recently was 5 sub 2" 5 round groups at 25 yards when teaching a friend to shoot. He bought match ammo and I was sighting in his Springfield range officer because the sights were way off to the right. I guess what I'm saying is I'm good enough that I will see a difference in shooting a crappy slopped together round and a precise handload. I just want to make that handload as high of quality as I can within reason but I'm not going to slap all my components together without getting the best bang for my buck.

I figured it wouldn't add any real effort to figure out and use the perfect alloy as appose to using the wrong one. So again more return than investment.

I do agree that shooting more produces better accuracy. However, my original question, that you skipped completely to lecture me instead of answer, was a simple what's the correct alloy for a low power 45 load.

[44MAG#1]

"I don't shoot bullseye yet but I have been thinking about getting into it. The best group I've shot recently was a 2.1" group at 25 yards when teaching a friend to shoot."

Was that offhand and if it was was it a once in a great while thing or can you consistently shoot 2.1 inch groups offhand?
I did answer your question. Piddling increases in accuracy is almost never detected in offhand shooting unless you are CONSISTANTLY good. And, I don't meant an occasionally small offhand group. So the answer I gave was unless something is terrible wrong with your alloy, which I doubt, a change at bullseye velocities is piddling.
But the answer was in the post.
Can you CONSISTANTLY shoot 2.1 inch groups offhand at twenty five yards?
If you can you can pass on bullseye as you will be already Master Or High Master class so no need to get into that. You have already arrived with a band playing.

[fredj338]

The fit of the boolit is more important than your alloy at that velocity.

^^THIS^^ I would try the alloy you have with the faster powders, see what you get accuracy wise. I used to shoot lino in my 45colt cas loads @ 750fps, shot great. I used lino back then because I had a bunch. Younger & dumber.

[Lefty bullseye shooter]

I am using range lead with 2% tin for my bullseye loads. I believe that would be very close to your 50/50 mix. I am casting an Accurate 190g bullet that drops at 194. Sized to .4515 with 4gr of Bullseye for the long line (50yds) and 3.4gr of bullseye for the shortline (25yds). My custom wad gun also has a Kart barrel. I lube with white labels's BAC and get no leading. Most commercially cast bullets are usually considerably harder and there are MANY masters and highmasters shooting them. I don't think you would see a difference in such a small change of alloy and definately not at 25yds. I am a highmaster and my boolits shoot really good at 50. At 25 I don't care. I want the gun to reliably function and the boolit to punch through the paper. Recoil recovery is much more important than a little accuracy. There is a saying in the bullseye world that lubed rocks will shoot good enough at 25yds.

Scott

[wv109323]

I have shot Bullseye over the last 35 years. I don't think there is an ideal alloy for the cast .45 ACP load. I have seen excellent accuracy from swaged bullets(Star 185 HP,which is no longer made) to the very hardest alloys. The size of the bullet to barrel diameter and the consistency of the bullet base far out trump the bullet alloy. I think you can go very soft and get away with it. Just make sure your alloy will cast a sharp base and you should be fine.The .45 ACP is one of the easiest rounds to load for there is.
I ABSOLUTELY recommend that you confirm your loaded ammo's accuracy. Remove all doubt that you have gun or ammo accuracy issues. I have seen many people chase an accuracy problem that does't exist. It is simply a failure of the fundamentals and not a gun/ammo problem.
Mt recipe for a Bullseye load would be: Federal,Winchester or other consistent brass( avoid mixing R-P brass in with others as R-P has a thinner wall and will produce a different crimp than others),a WLP primer, 3.8 to 4.2 grains of Bullseye powder, A well cast bullet that fits your barrel( Kart barrel should shoot with a .452 bullets), seat so 1/32" of the bullet shoulder extends beyond the case mouth, and taper crimp to .469-.470".
Make sure your neck expander opens the brass up large enough that your bullets are not sized down when seated. This is common with neck expanders.
Whether your ammo shoots 2" or 2 1/2" at fifty yards will not make a difference until you are knocking on the door of becoming a high master.

[swmass]

I shoot that bullet sized to 0.452 in my SR1911 over 3.9 grains of bullseye using straight wheel weights, lubed with 45/45/10. So your 50/50 will be even softer than mine which I've had no problems with. Not that I think it will matter either way, you should be just fine.

[mdi]

"I believe a gun must be more accurate than the shooter. If I wanna hit what I'm aiming at, be it a tin can or a 1/2" bullseye, I want the gun to be as accurate as possible. I can't keep 4" groups off hand, classic "Bullseye Stance" with any gun, but I want my guns to be able to. So, I may improve my abilities, but if my gun can't, why bother?"


Okay think about it. If you have a load that will do one and a quarter at twenty five and one that will do one inch at twenty five and you cant keep four inch groups off hand how can you tell the difference. You aren't good enough.
Unless you can shoot extremely well you aren't good enough to worry about load development you need shooter development.
You would be far, far, far, far better off working on yourself than the load looking for the holy grail of loads that will make up for the shooter problems.
Not picking on you but it goes for me, you and everyone else that thinks playing with loads will somehow turn a mediocre shooting into a hot shot.
It does not happen. Not in real life.



You missed the point. With your thinking, why try at all? If my best marksmanship would equal 3" at 25 yards, and my load could do no better than 3" at 25 yards, there is potential for 6" groups. If one's load is not better than ones abilities, then why try for accurate loads at all, just dump any old powder in a case and top it off with any diameter bullet. Reminds me of some guns used in shooting galleries; shooting a 22 Short in a smooth bore of 25 caliber, try and hit something with that. How can one improve with ammunition that can't shoot straight? That is as silly as thinking a good, accurate load will make one a sharpshooter...

I load every round to the best of my ability; as if I were shooting in high competition...

[Scharfschuetze]

You are spot on. Uniformity of your cast boolits and cartridge loading (case length, uniform powder charge, etc) is what will compliment the inherent accuracy of your pistol. WWs, linotype, range lead all work fine (if cast well) in the 45 ACP at its leisurely velocity. .452" is the right diameter if your barrel is to spec and most any lube will work fine. The 45 is one of the easier cartridges to load well as it just isn't that finicky.

Now for the shooter's part. Don't over think this. Once you have an accurate pistol and a standard 45 ACP bullseye load: you need to work on your fundamentals or what we used to call the eight steady hold factors. Dry fire on a black dot on the wall at home at least once for every round you actually put down range and more if you have the time. Holding a 45 one handed through a bullseye match can be fatiguing so work with some dumb bells to strengthen your arm and shoulder muscles a few times a week.

Accuracy of the pistol and its loads is pretty much finite and only you as the shooter (as you note in previous posts) can take advantage of it by correcting the biggest error in shooting... the shooter himself. The ammo and the pistol only compliment the shooter's skill.

I see that you are a Coastie up in Seattle. As a military member, you should have access to military shooting manuals and I would look for the US Army's AMU manual on the topic. You can contact the Army Marksmanship Unit at Fort Benning for hard copies or you can probably download them as a PDF.

Good luck! I think that you'll find almost any of the pistol competitions fun. Mastering bullseye shooting first will pay off with huge dividends later in any of the action or speed shooting events. I dearly enjoyed shooting for the Army in competition and I recall seeing Coast Guardsmen from time to time at the matches. Does the USCG still have a shooting team?

[44MAG#1]

"You missed the point. With your thinking, why try at all? If my best marksmanship would equal 3" at 25 yards, and my load could do no better than 3" at 25 yards, there is potential for 6" groups."

Never did I post anywhere to use any old trash load. Anyone has more sense than to do that. I said unless you are a good shot meaning good by a strict definition you won't be able to tell the difference in a piddling increase in accuracy of a load and I stand by that.
Still and you can turn anyway you want the biggest problem is the shooter. NOT THE GUN AND LOAD. But it is easy to blame the gun and load because I used to do that very thing. Made me feel good to as I just knew it wasn't lil ole me.
If you have a good load and you still can't hold good twenty five yard offhand groups what does that tell you???Do me a favor before you post back, think on it a while and don't post what your feelings tell you but what your brain tells you.
This is a shooter problem not a gun and load problem. Although it could be but rarely is it because it is so easy to blame mechanical devices because WE are all perfect aren't we.
Have a good day
:bigsmyl2:

[44MAG#1]

"if gun are only shoot 2 inched at 25 yds and you're wobble is 4 inches than you are not a winner."

Right and if your gun shoots a 1.75 group and your "wobble" is 4 inches you are still no winner.

[Char-Gar]

Okay think about it. If you have a load that will do one and a quarter at twenty five and one that will do one inch at twenty five and you cant keep four inch groups off hand how can you tell the difference. You aren't good enough.
Unless you can shoot extremely well you aren't good enough to worry about load development you need shooter development.
You would be far, far, far, far better off working on yourself than the load looking for the holy grail of loads that will make up for the shooter problems.
Not picking on you but it goes for me, you and everyone else that thinks playing with loads will somehow turn a mediocre shooting into a hot shot.
It does not happen. Not in real life.




It is true, that a load that will shoot smidge smaller groups won't shrink you offhand groups. It is the skill of the handgunner that will shrink the groups. On this we agree.

However, I do have a point of disagreement. One of the key elements of good marksman ship is mental. Going from a so-so marksman, to a good marksman, to an excellent marksman is a head game. Mental discipline is a key element of shooting better.

I want every round, in every firearm,, to be as accurate as I can possible make it. If each round does not strike where I want it to strike, then the fault is mine. If the bullet does not take out the X on the target, then I am responsible and not the load. We don't built excuses into our ammo. If we take the responsibility for every less than perfect shot on ourselves, then we will get better. Most of life is a head game and shooting certainly is no exception.

[44MAG#1]

"I want every round, in every firearm,, to be as accurate as I can possible make it. If each round does not strike where I want it to strike, then the fault is mine. If the bullet does not take out the X on the target, then I am responsible and not the load. We don't built excuses into our ammo. If we take the responsibility for every less than perfect shot on ourselves, then we will get better. Most of life is a head game and shooting certainly is no exception."

The trouble with head games, and we all play them in our lives (in all facets of our lives too) is the head game that if one just keeps on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on playing on the bench looking for that elusive load that will somehow turn us into "Sir Phenomenal" with our guns we are urinating on our own leg and telling ourselves it's raining and being dumb enough to believe it 'cause we surely wouldn't lie to ourselves.
Again in real life ( reality) we sometimes so desperately try to fool ourselves to our detriment.
Detriment to our shooting.

[sutherpride59]

Wow this got way off track, I got it, we get it, shoot more to get better, worry about your loads less, the horse is freaking dead yall!!! Back on topic, I'm to assume by popular vote that my 50 pure lead/ 50 WW is perfectly fine for bullseye style low power loads and any change to my alloy wont increase accuracy by any significant amount.

[Thumbcocker]

This is a fascinating thread. I have never shot in competition so this stuff is a real eye opener for me. Folks who can hold a handgun 1 handed and punch out small groups really impress me. I am reminded of what a gunsmith friend of mine told me many years ago "The hardest thing a gunsmith can say to a customer is: There is nothing wrong with your gun."

[mdi]

"You missed the point. With your thinking, why try at all? If my best marksmanship would equal 3" at 25 yards, and my load could do no better than 3" at 25 yards, there is potential for 6" groups."

Never did I post anywhere to use any old trash load. Anyone has more sense than to do that. I said unless you are a good shot meaning good by a strict definition you won't be able to tell the difference in a piddling increase in accuracy of a load and I stand by that.
Still and you can turn anyway you want the biggest problem is the shooter. NOT THE GUN AND LOAD. But it is easy to blame the gun and load because I used to do that very thing. Made me feel good to as I just knew it wasn't lil ole me.
If you have a good load and you still can't hold good twenty five yard offhand groups what does that tell you???Do me a favor before you post back, think on it a while and don't post what your feelings tell you but what your brain tells you.
This is a shooter problem not a gun and load problem. Although it could be but rarely is it because it is so easy to blame mechanical devices because WE are all perfect aren't we.
Have a good day
:bigsmyl2:


OK 44, you got the last word in...

[mdi]

Wow this got way off track, I got it, we get it, shoot more to get better, worry about your loads less, the horse is freaking dead yall!!! Back on topic, I'm to assume by popular vote that my 50 pure lead/ 50 WW is perfectly fine for bullseye style low power loads and any change to my alloy wont increase accuracy by any significant amount.
You ASSume wrong. Alloy is a contributor to potential accuracy (ever heard of bullet skid?). While not as much as powder charge, it still exists...

[runfiverun]

so you do like the rest of us and establish a baseline every day load.
once you have that and it's potential wrung out then you go ahead and start looking at the alloy.
you have 100% function. [this is important]
you have the recoil under control.
you know the trigger break.
you know the sights under harsh indoor lighting.
you also know 2" groups are gonna happen time after time.

so now you look for the last little bit.
double check neck tension.
increase the bhn by 4-5 points.
swap primers.
change the oal by .005.
now your dialing things in.
some of them might not make a difference, two of them might,, if used in combination.
but you won't know unless you try them one at a time and shoot a relative number of groups to really make a subjective decision.

[sutherpride59]

I can only ASSume this thread is dead, the sad part is all I got from it was shoot more and that my alloy is fine. All I wanted to know was what is the optimal alloy for a low powered bullseye round of the load I specified. I just had a kart barrel installed and bought a good semi-wadcutter mold and I just wanted to get started off on the right foot. I fully understand that there are many factors to developing a good load and being accurate but all I wanted was a flipping place to start. Ground zero in making my bullets is what kind of alloy to use. I'm almost baffled by this thread and how a simple question that required a simple answer became so off base. Seriously I just want to know what would be the optimal alloy,that's it. A simple question requiring such a simple answer but instead I get replies like "You ASSume wrong. Alloy is a contributor to potential accuracy (ever heard of bullet skid?). While not as much as powder charge, it still exists..." You didn't even explain what alloy would prevent bullet skid! No help!

That aswered NOTHING, if I could close this thread out I would. Thank you to those that at least answered my initial question.

[StrawHat]

...the sad part is all I got from it was shoot more and that my alloy is fine. All I wanted to know was what is the optimal alloy for a low powered bullseye round of the load I specified...

I believe your question has been answered, at least once.


If you size the bullet larger than the barrel you do not need to mash the bullet to make it fit. I would not worry about it and use your current alloy.


The fit of the boolit is more important than your alloy at that velocity.


...all you need is for the boolit to fit the barrel well enough to prevent gas cutting, and for it to be hard enough to grab the rifling and spin up to be stabilized without trying to jump the lands...


...Wheelweight alloy with 1 or 2% tin should work great. Any alloy between that and what you are using should work great if the bases of your bullet fills out sharply...


linotype uncut is great good bases and hard for rifling.


...I am using range lead with 2% tin for my bullseye loads ... There is a saying in the bullseye world that lubed rocks will shoot good enough at 25yds ... Scott


...I have shot Bullseye over the last 35 years. I don't think there is an ideal alloy for the cast .45 ACP load. I have seen excellent accuracy from swaged bullets(Star 185 HP,which is no longer made) to the very hardest alloys. The size of the bullet to barrel diameter and the consistency of the bullet base far out trump the bullet alloy...


...WWs, linotype, range lead all work fine (if cast well) in the 45 ACP at its leisurely velocity. .452" is the right diameter if your barrel is to spec and most any lube will work fine...


...One of the key elements of good marksman ship is mental. Going from a so-so marksman, to a good marksman, to an excellent marksman is a head game. Mental discipline is a key element of shooting better...

It seems that for the purpose stated, Bullseye shooting, nearly any alloy will work.

The quote from Char-Gar very much sums up my experience with competitive shooting. Once I stopped looking for mechanical ways to improve my shooting, my scores went up.

Kevin

[mdi]

I can only ASSume this thread is dead, the sad part is all I got from it was shoot more and that my alloy is fine. All I wanted to know was what is the optimal alloy for a low powered bullseye round of the load I specified. I just had a kart barrel installed and bought a good semi-wadcutter mold and I just wanted to get started off on the right foot. I fully understand that there are many factors to developing a good load and being accurate but all I wanted was a flipping place to start. Ground zero in making my bullets is what kind of alloy to use. I'm almost baffled by this thread and how a simple question that required a simple answer became so off base. Seriously I just want to know what would be the optimal alloy,that's it. A simple question requiring such a simple answer but instead I get replies like "You ASSume wrong. Alloy is a contributor to potential accuracy (ever heard of bullet skid?). While not as much as powder charge, it still exists..." You didn't even explain what alloy would prevent bullet skid! No help!

That aswered NOTHING, if I could close this thread out I would. Thank you to those that at least answered my initial question.
Sorry sutherpride59, thread drift happens, jes keep yer pants on. :mrgreen: My advise would be to start with a fairly soft alloy, perhaps 9 to 10 BHN. If you get leading or poor accuracy (after all other items worked out as per runfiverun states). Bullet skid is from the bullet not gripping the rifling and "skidding" down the barrel, often with too soft an alloy and too high velocity (44 Man has good info on bullet skid). I started reloading my 45 ACPs with "range lead) usually mine ran about 10 BHN, and starting loads and experience good accuracy.

P.S. It's one thing to ask a question, but to demand an answer is not kosher...

[44MAG#1]

I would think that bullet skid in a 45 Auto would be the least of ones worries.
The fact that I may be wrong is circling in my mind.
One would have to have a load that would be outstanding in the velocity
and pressure field to get that.
Although a bullet sized way too small and way to soft may cause it but otherwise if it happens a documented report on the cause and cure would be nice.
Seeing as people run alloys as soft as 10 to 12 sometimes in a 44 Mag at 1200 to 1300 FPS and over 30000 psi with a longer, hence longer bullet travel giving more velocity hitting the rifling than a 45 Auto would at up to 1000 FPS and minuscule travel to engage the rifling at lower chamber pressure too.
I assume this is about the 45 Auto right?

[Char-Gar]

I can only ASSume this thread is dead, the sad part is all I got from it was shoot more and that my alloy is fine. All I wanted to know was what is the optimal alloy for a low powered bullseye round of the load I specified. I just had a kart barrel installed and bought a good semi-wadcutter mold and I just wanted to get started off on the right foot. I fully understand that there are many factors to developing a good load and being accurate but all I wanted was a flipping place to start. Ground zero in making my bullets is what kind of alloy to use. I'm almost baffled by this thread and how a simple question that required a simple answer became so off base. Seriously I just want to know what would be the optimal alloy,that's it. A simple question requiring such a simple answer but instead I get replies like "You ASSume wrong. Alloy is a contributor to potential accuracy (ever heard of bullet skid?). While not as much as powder charge, it still exists..." You didn't even explain what alloy would prevent bullet skid! No help!

That aswered NOTHING, if I could close this thread out I would. Thank you to those that at least answered my initial question.

You asked a question that has no answer, that is why you got answers you do not find satisfying. But most of the responders were trying to help you, but it was not the help you wanted.

Here is your answer: There is NO optimal hardness for cast bullet target loads in the 45 ACP cartridge in the 1911 pistol. Equal accuracy can be found in a wide variety of alloy temper. There are some alloys that are off the scale, but many will work as well as the next one.

Improved accuracy will be found in areas OTHER THAN a one super accurate alloy, and that was the nature of the responses you received.

I have 50 plus years of experience in shooting 45 caliber cast bullets though a 1911 pistol and if you add up the experience of the others it would run into centuries. Don't get you nose out of joint because you asked the wrong question to a bunch of knowledgeable people. Just learn and not get miffed.

[mdi]

I would think that bullet skid in a 45 Auto would be the least of ones worries.
The fact that I may be wrong is circling in my mind.
One would have to have a load that would be outstanding in the velocity
and pressure field to get that.
Although a bullet sized way too small and way to soft may cause it but otherwise if it happens a documented report on the cause and cure would be nice.
Seeing as people run alloys as soft as 10 to 12 sometimes in a 44 Mag at 1200 to 1300 FPS and over 30000 psi with a longer, hence longer bullet travel giving more velocity hitting the rifling than a 45 Auto would at up to 1000 FPS and minuscule travel to engage the rifling at lower chamber pressure too.
I assume this is about the 45 Auto right?

OK 44, you win. You got the last word in...

[wv109323]

Your question does not have a finite answer. ANY popular alloy will work equally well for your application. I would use an alloy that I could consistently reproduce with my lead supply. You just need an alloy that will cast a consistent flat base.
What other people are telling you is there are far more important considerations than lead alloy , in making an accurate .45 ACP round. The reason you did not get a specific answer is because the answer is : (e) all the above.