My old Remington rolling Block in .43 Egyptian

[Earlwb]

Many years ago I acquired this Remington Rolling Block made for Egypt in .43 Egyptian caliber. I had plans to convert it to 50-70 and I bought a 50-70 cadet barrel amazingly enough. I never got around to doing anything with it. So it has languished for over 30 years now. I think it might work Ok as a shooter just sticking with .43 Eqyptian rounds using black powder. The bore doesn't look too bad, it is a bit dark, but no rust per se, When I cleaned it up some, the patches were coming out dark grey, but no rust on them. So maybe it has been coated up good all this time with oil, grease and lead residue. Anyway, if it doesn't shoot well, I can always do something about it then.

But I noticed that the rear stock is cracked and missing a piece. So I will be gluing it back together real good and fixing it up better before I do anything else. I could buy a new stock and fit it to it, but I don't want to do that until I try shooting it some first.Then maybe dress it up a lot more nicely. As I remember from when I bought it, it was surplussed out from a Military Cadet school in Egypt. So it probably didn't get shot so much as being used for drill practice for many years. Which probably explains the stock being cracked.

My rifle came with the rather spectacular sword bayonet. The bayonet is huge compared to what everyone was typically using. It sort of makes the rifle into something more like a Halberd than a spear.

I plan on making a chamber cast too. I want to ensure it is .43 Eqyptian and not some other caliber instead.

I am not sure who really made the rifle though. There isn't any obvious markings on it to denote who made it. So I suspect it might be a Belgian made example. But I cannot be sure though.

[Earlwb]

A couple of pics of the cracked stock. I can see cleaning it up and removing oil if needed and then tusing epoxy to glue it together good. Plus putting in some brass pins to strengthen it up more too.

If I remember right, I got the 50-70 Cadet barrel from Dixie Gun Works many years ago. The barrel looks really good. I think someone said it would screw right in too. So if the original barrel is gone, I might try it and see if it fits or not.

[salpal48]

Nice pictures. Look like that Gun came from SARCO In New Jersey. I had one with similar Marking. At one Time they Had hunderds of them. Shot Great with Egyptian ammo. You can make them From 50/90. The bayonet Is French. . Might Be a Modified Chassepot Or Gras.
Don't be surprised if Its not In 11mm egyptian

[Earlwb]

Thanks. Yeah I have my doubts about the caliber and I need to confirm it.

I was thinking that the bayonet is a Zouave type of bayonet. They were commonly used on the Remington Rolling Block rifles back in the 1860's. They would make a great short sword if one needed it in a battle too. But as you stated it might be a French version too. I'll have to research that some.

[salpal48]

The French Proof will be On the Blade Or manufacture Right near the hilt

[marlinman93]

I think your decision to leave it in it's original chambering is good! The .43 Egyptian is based on Remington's original .44-77 BN cartridge, reworked to meet Egypt's requirement for a unique cartridge of their own. It's a great caliber, but not sure you can make them from .50-90? The .43 Egyptian is a thicker rim, so headspace issues might occur if you use the .50-90 as a donor. Buffalo Arms sold cases made from .348 Win. with the rim swaged to make up for the thickness difference. Not sure if they still offer them or not? You can also make them from most of the other .43 Mauser, .43 Spanish, etc., if you find that brass. I make brass for my .44-77SBN from a bunch of old .43 Mauser brass I located.
I wouldn't bother using any brass pins on the filler wood piece. Modern epoxies like Acraglass from Brownells will work great without any pins needed, and look more professional without pins. They sell Acraglass as a gel, and it comes with two dye packs to add brown or black to the gel. A tiny bit of brown dye will blend the patch in, and also fill any tiny gaps between the patch and the adjacent wood. This is an Acraglass patch I did to a recent chip that happened to my Remington #2 Roller:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/marlinguy/DSCF4808.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/marlinguy/media/DSCF4808.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/marlinguy/DSCF4811.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/marlinguy/media/DSCF4811.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/marlinguy/DSCF4815.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/marlinguy/media/DSCF4815.jpg.html)

[Earlwb]

Thanks for the tips.

I'll check the bayonet more closely too. When I took the pictures last, the bayonet was covered with a thick brownish goo kind of grease that really protected it well. So the blade looks great, but all gunky looking from the grease. So I didn't want to remove the grease to take a pic of the blade. Maybe I should have looked closer for proof marks and stuff at the time.

I ordered some Acraglas epoxy, it just hasn't come in yet. I will skip the brass pins then. Yeah I tend to agree in that the .43 Egyptian caliber is equivalent to a .45-70, maybe more like a .45-90 actually.

I remember SARCO selling these off as parts guns and the prices was for using them as a base for making other rifles or for just hanging on the wall as a decoration. I was pretty happy when mine arrived and was complete with nothing missing, such as the firing pin for example.

[smkummer]

I made brass from Magtech 32 gauge shotgun brass. The rim is a little small and I believe 50-90 sharps brass would give you a better rim. I picked up mine for $200 and the wood looks like it spent its life on a camel. I will someday fill the wood and clean it up but I was really surprised how good my bore looked and it shoots very well. 13 grains of unique and lyman 457124 (385 grains) sized to .451 works fine.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

My roller began life as an Egyptian probably in 43 caliber. Someone converted it to 45-70 using a kit made by Numerich way back in the day probably before 1970. I found it one day while wandering round in that part of the Hudson Valley and it had a price tag on it of $70. The barrel is a real piece of work...half round and half octagon, but the flats measure 15/16ths and it is huge. The forearm was made to fit and I don't know if the stock and buttplate are original. It is a big heavy rifle and would not be a pleasure to haul around in the woods for very long. I have shot it off the bench and it does well with the weight taking up the recoil very well. When disassembled I found several of the internal parts with Egyptian proofs /markings. The bore is like new and the entire affair was reblued. I use Lyman 457124 at 385 grains with moderate charges of 3031 and it is a real gong ringer at 100 yards. LLS

[marlinman93]

The .43 Egyptian is actually more like the .44-77 SBN than either of the two you mentioned. Since the .44-77SBN was the base cartridge for most of the .43 caliber Rolling Blocks built for foreign governments, it's easy to see the similarities.

[Earlwb]

Thanks for the information. Yes I agree the .44-77 SBN is the parent cartridge for the other calibers. I had originally bought the rifle to use as a parts gun to make something else with it. But the .43 Egyptian is a strong shooting cartridge too. 30 years or so ago, we didn't have the internet. I didn't know what to use as a base to make cartridges for it at the time. I think at the time someone said you had to machine the cases from barstock brass using a lathe and then form the bottleneck and size them. So at the time I was planning on making it into a nice rifle based on the action using a different caliber cartridge that was easier to obtain. But I never got around to it. Nowadays though, a couple three businesses make cartridges and brass cases for the .43 Egyptian. Or I could make my own too. So if the barrel is OK and works for shooting there isn't much sense to change it out for something else. Power-wise the .43 Egyptian is probably as good as a .45-70 using black powder. But carrying a huge heavy rifle for a long walk out hunting is probably out of the question, especially for me anymore.

[marlinman93]

I used to use Nonte's Guide to Cartridge Conversions before the internet. It's a great book, but is dated today, and many of the suggested donor cartridges are as tough to find as the case they make! It doesn't get much use these days, just for that reason. But occasionally I still look at it, just in case it might help.

[HangFireW8]

If you can get behind the spot with the crack, you can put the pin in from behind and it won't be visible from the outside.

I use the threaded brass rod from Brownell's.

[Cloudy]

The bayonet is the standard yataghan-style bayonet for the Egyptian Rolling Block. It is similar to the French Chassepot but different in that it is not chamfered in the mounting slot nor does it have the tenon slot in the mounting ring. They are all German made with an "A.C" stamp & a set of scales being Alex Coppel, a king's head stamp being Gebruder Weyersburg and a knight's head being W.R. Kirschbaum.

[Earlwb]

Thanks for the information.

I need to double check the bayonet and see what marks it has on it for sure now.

[celem]

I purchased one in the 1960s for the princely sum of $3. I used to enjoy shooting it with ammo that I reloaded. I only had 50 cases. I sold it in 2002 but wish that I had kept it.


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[justashooter]

nothing breaks a cavalry charge like a phalanx of rifle bayonettes in steely hands.

[Earlwb]

Definitely, one would not want to be in the front ranks of the Calvary charge.

[bigted]

it is fun that the 44-77 is touted as a Sharps cartridge when in fact Remington was the first to have it in their rifles. the 43 spanish and 43 Egyptian are very close cousins to the 44-77 REMINGTON.

the 44-77 was used extensively in the buff hunting and Remington also made their export rifles based on the same cartridge to wit the 43 spanish and 43 Egyptian. all these rounds are very fun to shoot and are powerful and accurate rounds to boot.

[marlinman93]

it is fun that the 44-77 is touted as a Sharps cartridge when in fact Remington was the first to have it in their rifles. the 43 spanish and 43 Egyptian are very close cousins to the 44-77 REMINGTON.

the 44-77 was used extensively in the buff hunting and Remington also made their export rifles based on the same cartridge to wit the 43 spanish and 43 Egyptian. all these rounds are very fun to shoot and are powerful and accurate rounds to boot.

Actually the .44-77 SBN was originally a developement by Remington and Sharps back for the Creedmoor matches. Half the guns were Remingtons, and half were Sharps 1874's. At the time the cartridge was referred to as the .44-77 Remington-Sharps Bottleneck. Somewhere along the line, and long after Sharps went bankrupt; the name got changed to the Sharps nomenclature. Seems a shame to me, but surely not the last time it happened! How many people call the .38-55 and .32-40 a Winchester? Both were developed by Marlin for the Ballard, and originally had the name Ballard after the caliber!

[Earlwb]

I love seeing the old ammo boxes and cartridges that they used to use. It is amazing that any of the old ammo boxes survived all these years as ammo boxes are usually thrown away.

pics from http://www.rtgammo.com/cf_box20.html

http://www.rtgammo.com/images/4477W21327.jpg

http://www.rtgammo.com/images/44ScreedW13528.jpg

ref http://www.oldammo.com/november08.htm
http://www.oldammo.com/Rem43Egypt.jpg

[marlinman93]

I like the old boxes and cartridges too! Those are pretty cool, and probably pretty valuable too! I have some original old boxes of .43 Mauser, .43 Egyptian, and .43 Spanish. But only one original .44-77SBN cartridge for my Rolling Block in that caliber. When I have seen them they cost more for a box than many guns cost!

[Earlwb]

The bayonet is the standard yataghan-style bayonet for the Egyptian Rolling Block. It is similar to the French Chassepot but different in that it is not chamfered in the mounting slot nor does it have the tenon slot in the mounting ring. They are all German made with an "A.C" stamp & a set of scales being Alex Coppel, a king's head stamp being Gebruder Weyersburg and a knight's head being W.R. Kirschbaum.

Thanks for that information. I took a closer look at my bayonet and it has the king's head on it and on the other side a tiny oval with a 1 in it. So mine is likely made by Gebruder Weyersburg then.

[Earlwb]

Now then, many years ago, I had entertained the idea of converting the old .43 Eqyptian Rolling block to a 50-45 cartridge. I had acquired a 50-45 cadet barrel from Dixie Gun Works at the time. But at the time I never thought about the rifle has having been made by anyone but Remington. So now I am not sure that the barrel would fit it or not. But the carbine barrel would have been pretty neat though. It makes the rifle small and compact and fairly light in weight too. Way back then I was fascinated with larger caliber guns and cartridges. way back then there was no information about the .43 Egyptian cartridge, but there was information on the 50-70 though. So since the 50-45 is a shorter version I had thought about trimming down some homemade 50-70 cases to size. Or maybe even rechambering it for 50-70 too.