Mini lathe mini mill any one

[JSH]

I got the itch. So am looking hard at the grizzly GO765. I think it will do fine for lube sizer dies and some other small parts.
I would like the GO768, but it would kill my budget for tooling and accessories.
Jeff

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Get the largest machine you can afford/handle because there will be a time you want/need a larger machine. Oh yeah, the machines are the cheap part LOL!

I see my lathe as an indispensable tool.

[Bonz]

Oh yeah, the machines are the cheap part LOL !

Really thinking hard about a lathe because I can think of a million things that I could make if I had a lathe. But I keep hearing the same thing that the initial purchase of the lathe is the least expensive part of the purchase, the items that you buy later is was cost the most.

What additional items are you talking about ?

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

The expensive part is the tooling.

With reloading there are lots of extra accessories that make the job easier/faster. Same goes with machining.


Starting out on a lathe I would use HSS bits and learn to grind them. This is an invaluable skill, IMHO. Once you have mastered grinding different cutting tools (ie, turning, boring, threading, etc) then consider getting some carbide cutters. Learning the "ins" and "outs" of both types of cutters is important too.


Some other cutting tools would include drills, reamers, counterbores, chamfer cutters.


Then when you throw a mill into the mix, there are even more tools that you would need for mill.


Don't let this scare you though. Just like reloading, you can reload with basic tooling. Same goes for machining. You will be able to make a lot of items with basic tooling. Some you may already have (ie, drills). HSS blank bits are cheap. I have purchased tooling as I go and I come across jobs that require special tooling. I just order it. Sooooo, get off the fence and get yourself a lathe LOL!

[JSH]

A place to put a full size one is the major problem.
I have access to four lathes that vary in size. Two are gun smithing lathes, one large and a shop sized one. Two of these folks know their stuff. Convince is not a t the top of the list any any of those. Hour round trip drive for the most part to any of them.

Bonz, it is all tooling. I had a fair bunch years ago that I gave away. Even if I had kept all of it, it was to large to fit on the bench lathes without some work.

You have to walk, before you can run so to speak. So I am trying to nail down what the major basics would be for most jobs. I do want a 4 jaw chuck, once again it is not a have have for now.
Some of the package deals are pretty good. Then I also need a good set of bits. The list gets longer and longer. Once again the KISS theory needs to be followed. The tool rest that comes with it are very useable, yet there are better ways to skin a cat and both can and do work quite well.
It has been a fair bit since I last fooled with a lathe, worked in a shop that used theirs weekly. "Knows enough to be dangerous" applies here, but I think with some usage it will come back to me OK.
Jeff

[oldred]

The 4 jaw chuck is a necessity really and is far more useful than the 3 jaw. Also while I agree with the HSS tooling I would like to add that if you check on Ebay you can get REAL quality HSS at a decent price and not have settle for the Chinese K—rap! Chinese HSS is a bad joke and compared to something such as Cleveland Mo—Max it's like night and day, the point being that while you may have to settle for an import lathe the cost of good tooling can easily exceed the lathe itself and cheapo substitutes will cost even more in the long run in both money and frustration. I am not trying to be an import snob and I buy lots of import stuff where it works but tooling for lathes and mills is not the place to save money.

Good tooling is not cheap but cheap tooling is not good!

[big bore 99]

I've been a tool maker for the last 50 yrs and had my own small shop for 25 of them. I pulled the plug and closed it up and sold everything. I had larger lathes, Bridgeports and a surface grinder. I had a couple small lathes and a Benchmaster table mill. The smaller equipment was more or less a novelty. When first starting out, it's bewildering trying to figure out what else you need. I would start out with a full set of drill bits and an assortment of end mill cutters and what you may need for a job. It's more fun not having to turn a buck right away like I was. I strongly suggest trying to make a lot of the smaller things. I had a book titled "Toolmaking 1909" I think was the title. I made a lot of my own odd taps, boring bars, form cutters, work holding fixtures, etc. That will give you a working knowledge of the trade.

[Bonz]

Some great responses, thanks. I haven't used a lathe since 1973 but the metal shop teacher said that I had the skill and trusted me with making some engine parts for his brothers race car. Once I get started, I'm guessing that someone charging $200 to make a push thru die and base punch that can reduce brass by 0.02" will probably make more sense. Right now, the idea sounds very easy to do.

[rondog]

Some great responses, thanks. I haven't used a lathe since 1973 but the metal shop teacher said that I had the skill and trusted me with making some engine parts for his brothers race car. Once I get started, I'm guessing that someone charging $200 to make a push thru die and base punch that can reduce brass by 0.02" will probably make more sense. Right now, the idea sounds very easy to do.

Making things isn't the hard or expensive part, it's the machines and the tooling, and the necessary space, and electrical power, and proper setup, etc. Bits and cutters are expensive, and lathes and mills allows you to break those tools with great gusto. And boring, turning, facing and threading bars that use replaceable inserts are great, but expensive, and the inserts aren't cheap either. Not to mention the huge variety of them.

Making things is awesome, great if you can afford to do it a lot and have the skills/experience to NOT break things. For most of us, it's cheaper in the long run to just buy what you need already made, or hire it done. I really miss having access to machine shops, but not enough to go to the huge expenses to set myself up.

[dverna]

If money is tight, forego the mill and get a good lathe and tooling

[jmorris]

I have always found the best deals on used equipment. Unlike electronics, old equipment is often better than new and you get the "extras" that costs more than the machine as well.

I have bought old bridgeports for less than what the phase converters, collets, vice, chucks, rotary table and other tooling they came with would have cost by themselves. I would take one bridgeport over a dozen table top "china" mills.

[HollowPoint]

I started out with a mini mill and mini lathe that I bought from Harbor Freight. They were like toys compared to what I use now but I learned alot from using them. You will eventually want to upgrade but don't be in a hurry to do so. The tooling for the mini mill/lathe is not as expensive as it is for larger machines so if you break some tools, chalk it up to experience.

I still own my mini mill. I use it as my drill press. I have since upgraded lathes twice. I went from the mini to a 9x19 to a 12x36 gunsmithing lathe. There's no telling how many of the more expensive cutting tools I may have ruined if I had not learned on the minis. I went straight from the mini mill to a CNC hobby mill that I've had for a few years now.

For the kind of project I use them for I'm more than happy with what I got and how I got there. It's always a dream come true when you can afford the best machines right from the start but, not everyone can do that.

HollowPoint

[marvelshooter]

My two cents is to stay far away from the Chinese 7x12 and 7x14 mini lathes no matter what name is on them. You would be much better served with an old South Bend 9" or something similar. If you are patient you can get one for about the same money as the Chinese lathe and often get some tooling with it.

[country gent]

Tooling for the lathe depends on what you want need to do. Simple turning and light boreing can be done with a lantern tool post and a left right straight and cuttoff tool holder and square HSS opr cemented carbide tools. A bench grinder with appropriate wheels for sharpening tools ( If you run both carbide and HSS 2 bench grinders saves mounting and remounting wheels and makes them last alot longer) Drill chuck, live center, Reamer float, and die holder for the tail stock. 3 jaw, 4 jaw collets, dead center and face plate for the head stock. If wantingto do long work or barrels 2 4 jaws and a mount for it on the back of the headstock spindle so both ends of the barrel can be zeroed and held. Then you get into gages measuring tools taps dies drill reamers. Other tooling could be taper attachments mandrels digital read outs 6 jaw chucks ( very good for thin walled work) Lathe dogs. Ounce you have the lathe alot of the tooling can be made on it for it but is time consuming.

[JSH]

I am not so much looking at a mill as I am a lathe. I have access to a couple of mills along with the lathes. Once again it is about the convenience. To drive over there and back, an hour on the road to do ten to fifteen minutes work gets old quick and burns a lot of day light.

The bench top lathes are over and above what they were several years back. The new ones are leaps and bounds ahead of those.
If I was going to make a living or supplement my income, and use this several hours every day, yes I would buck up and spend the time and money on an upper quality lathe. My tool and die maker buddy is going with me to look these over and help me get mine squared up before I tackle anything of importance.
The ways are not hardened on most of these. So cleanliness and good lube is a must. I did communicate with one gent that was a retired machinest. He bought on of the HF lathes, as he needed some parts and built them cheaper than he could buy them at the time. He mentioned that they are like guns, the all have their quirks. You have to find them and work with them. He just checked his little lathe over after having not done that for several years. It was the same as he had set it up after fifteen or so years. He mentioned his use was maybe an average of one to two times a month and it showed no measurable wear.
I darn sure am not going to learn any younger,lol

[BwBrown]

While it is technically possible to do so, it is extremely expensive - I have never heard anyone say, "I wish I had bought a smaller lathe."
I on the other hand say daily, "If I had 2" more swing over the bed..." or "If only the through bore were 1/2" larger."
You can do a lot of stuff on those mini lathes and mills. But you can do most anything you want on a larger unit.
Think ahead, and buy as much as the budget will allow. Then the learning begins! And if possible find a friend, neighbor, mentor. They are priceless!
Good luck.

[rbuck351]

I have a 7x14HF mini lathe and am very happy with it. Don't bother with carbide insert tools for these. It doesn't have the power to run them properly. I have made a bunch of dies for my Lyman and Star sizers and my Swag O Matic. Also made a bunch of GC makers. Do get an American made drill set. The Chinese ones are not straight and are not as good of steel. I am having good luck with import HSS tool bits from Enco at about a dollar each. You will find threading on these lathes to be a challenge as they only go down to about 60/80 rpm. Little Machine Shop has lots of tooling for these and the prices are not bad. The have a variety of chucks and chuck mounting plates, quick change tool holders and such. A bigger lathe will do more of course and a quick change gear box would be nice but if you don't have the room you make do with what you have. I have had mine for several years and it has paid for it self many times over.

[HollowPoint]

When I bought my mini mill and lathe, they came with many of the items listed above as stuff you'd have to buy separately. All I had to buy was cutting tools. I already had measuring tools so that was covered.

I've mentioned this before in other posts of this type, I barreled my first rifle using the Grizzly 9x19 lathe I had upgraded to from the mini lathe. It seems that chinese machines carry with them an inherent stigma of inaccuracy and cheapness that will never be shaken; even though this is no longer the case.

I once watch a program of a famous concert violinist playing a stratavarious violin. As a musician he was very talented. He then took an off the shelf mass produced violin and proceeded to make it sound just as good as the rare master-piece stratavarious violin.

My point is, if you've learned your lessons on the smaller machines and you know what you're doing, if you take your time you can get what many call "Chinese-Junk" to turn out some incredible finished products.

Don't let the Dream-Killers kill your dreams.

HollowPoint

[Whiterabbit]

I got the itch. So am looking hard at the grizzly GO765. I think it will do fine for lube sizer dies and some other small parts.
I would like the GO768, but it would kill my budget for tooling and accessories.
Jeff


If money is tight, forego the mill and get a good lathe and tooling

Hi Jeff,

I'm going with dverna and I will go even farther. IMO it's better to have one good machine and NO tooling, than a medium machine plus tooling or two junk machines fully accesorized. The reason being, you can slowly aquire tooling over time, per job.

So I go one step further than dverna. If money is REALLY tight, get a machine you like with a couple pcs of HSS bar, and slowly over time build up your tooling.


---------------------

(it took me 2-3 years to buy even my QCTP. I can't live without it now, but still, I found a way to for years. Three years from now, I'll install the scales for a DRO and talk about how I couldn;t live without them.....)

[country gent]

I disagree with the big machine can do it all. At work we had a lathe that would swing 28" over the carriage and a 10 ft between centers. Doing small work in it was a real issue due to speed ranges, weight of everything, and the fact the big chuck didnt always close down small enough. Just cranking the carriage around was a pain. Some of us had a cable made up to wrap arounf the tail stock and pull it forward easier. Big machines are heavier and harder to work with, the bigger tooling dosnt always fit where its needed to be. Same with mills big mills tooling is heavy a big vise is a pain if you need a chainfall or cherrypicker every time you want to take it on or off. Spindle speeds may be to slow for smaller end mills and cutters.

[Whiterabbit]

I can't disagree, but my 10x22 does <1/8" brass beads just fine, but larger work on a mini machine would become a real bear real fast. There's going to be a balance.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

14x40 is a good hobbyist size LOL!

My 10x22 is good for almost everything I do, but when I start looking for a real machine it will be in the 14-16" X 40-60" range.

Space has me constrained to the 10x22.

[bob208]

first you have to make up your mind do I really want a lathe? if yes then get a lathe not some Chinese toy. buy once cry once. for your intent a craftsman 618 would be a start they are good small lathes. yes tooling can get a little costly. but then you only buy it once. look on ebay to get an idea of what lathes cost and the tooling.


I started with a 12" craftsman made in 1941. used it for 20 years the first 12 years I only had a 4 jaw chuck. then I got a deal on a 141/2" south bend. I sold the craftsman for 3x what I paid for it. then I got a good deal on a 9" south bend for small work.

[MaryB]

I really need a mini mill... not for gun project but for some amplifiers I build for ham radio. I need to machine aluminum or brass cavities in 4x4x1" blocks(or smaller for some, half that). Been using my drill press and a cross slide vice but it is a massive pain to setup!

[smokeywolf]

Hi Jeff,

I'm going with dverna and I will go even farther. IMO it's better to have one good machine and NO tooling, than a medium machine plus tooling or two junk machines fully accesorized. The reason being, you can slowly aquire tooling over time, per job.

So I go one step further than dverna. If money is REALLY tight, get a machine you like with a couple pcs of HSS bar, and slowly over time build up your tooling.


---------------------

(it took me 2-3 years to buy even my QCTP. I can't live without it now, but still, I found a way to for years. Three years from now, I'll install the scales for a DRO and talk about how I couldn;t live without them.....)

Did you mean QITP? I have a QITP(40) (Dorian QUADRA Indexable toolpost) on my lathe. I too waited until the right deal came along. You're right about the QUADRA toolpost. It's the best!
I've got a DRO on the Bridgeport, but I'm still waiting to put one on the lathe.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Not to mention you will wear out the bearings in your drill press with that cross slide vise. Drill presses aren't designed for side to side loads.

[bstone5]

Some better drill press have tapered bearings, these drill press can take small side loads.
A lot of people use these drill press for light milling work. A lot of the 80 percent aluminum receivers are completed with the taper bearing drill press.

[Whiterabbit]

Did you mean QITP? I have a QITP(40) (Dorian QUADRA Indexable toolpost) on my lathe. I too waited until the right deal came along. You're right about the QUADRA toolpost. It's the best!
I've got a DRO on the Bridgeport, but I'm still waiting to put one on the lathe.

No sir, just a quick change tool post. I was tired of using shims to adjust height on my cutters. Nice that I can go from a parting tool to a profile cutter to a crown cutter. within moments. Takes longer to dial in the barrel than it does to cut it off and re crown it!

Indexing my QCTP still takes a 17mm wrench. I don't mind too much for now. I could always weld a bar to the nut or something and make my own QI.

I am so glad I value being able to make things myself. It seems to be a dying desire as people live their lives digitally. There is something to be said about spending an hour in front of a machine and having a perfectly crafted ... *thing* .... to show for the effort, compared to spending an hour in front of a computer and having nothing but vapor to show for it.

[oldred]

Some better drill press have tapered bearings, these drill press can take small side loads.
A lot of people use these drill press for light milling work. A lot of the 80 percent aluminum receivers are completed with the taper bearing drill press.


Bearings are the least of the problems and has nothing to do whether or not a drill press can take a side load, NONE of them can regardless of the bearings! The fact is trying to mill on a drill press is downright dangerous!!!! The chuck is held only by the taper and as such it can NOT take a side load at all, the effect is cumulative as the chuck spins so even a light load WILL eventually let go! It's not a matter of IF but rather WHEN this WILL happen, when it does it usually results in only a broken end mill and damaged work but all too often it results in a broken or damaged operator! When that chuck falls out while the quill is being lifted it can take off across a shop like a heavy very rapidly spinning top with very sharp teeth, it will cover a lot of area in a hurry!


NEVER, EVER try to mill with a drill press because it's a disaster waiting to happen, I know there are those who will poo-poo what I am saying but a quick search on the net reveals that these accidents are an all too common occurrence and people DO get hurt doing this! Besides trying to mill on a drillpress is an exercise in frustration anyway for obvious reasons, they are way to flimsy so any semblance of accuracy would be hopeless as even the mini-mills are barely up to the task.


I am not trying to be a tool snob, I myself will "make do" whenever I need to but some things should not be attempted and this is one of them it WILL get you hurt eventually. There have been so many accidents from doing this and it is so well known It's surprising that folks still attempt it.


In 1986 a forman at a mine where I was working in Kentucky tried to mill a piece of fiberglass with a drillpress and the chuck let go. This thing went across his left arm and left a gash all the way to the bone! In discussions about this very thing and on different forums I have heard of several similar incidents that have occurred, this can and DOES happen!!!!!

[smokeywolf]

Whiterabbit, you're right about the feeling of satisfaction from being able to turn your ideas into reality on your own machinery.

oldred's telling it like it is. That's why mills have drawbars to secure the tooling that's inserted into the spindle nose. Drill presses don't have that.

[oldred]

[QUOTE=smokeywolf;3614413That's why mills have drawbars to secure the tooling that's inserted into the spindle nose. Drill presses don't have that.[/QUOTE]


And even if they did or some other method is used to lock the arbor in the quill the chuck is still held on the other end by that short Jacobs taper, that one is often the one that let's go first! There are a surprising number of these accidents actually happen with the little table top mini-mills, what happens is that folks will have a drill chuck in the machine and not take the time to use the proper collet opting to just stick the end mill in the drill chuck instead. They may not even have a collet set and use a drill chuck to save money but regardless the end result is eventually the same, this happens often but after the first time a person is chased around the shop by that rapidly spinning steel top with sharp teeth they begin to understand why this is so dangerous!

[bangerjim]

I have big lathes and small lathes. I have big mills and small mills. Buy them with the interchagability of tooling in mind.

And my rule of thumb: figure 20X the the cost of the machine tool for good quality tooling! Or more. I am talking a whole lot more machining than just simple gun stuff here. I can make virtually anything and everything I ever need in my machine shops.

Buy the biggest most expensive machine you can afford.....and then some. You will not regret it!

bangerjim

[country gent]

I really perfer the Aloris quick change tool holders for the lathe. We had a small version we made for the hardringes and little lthes in house. But at times the lantern post and a tool holder is the easiest way to get where you want to be. The X-Y tables for a drill press are great for locating and drilling holes. but most drill presses arnt safe with a end mill in the chuck the flat point wants to swirl. Another task the X-Y tables do well is light jeweling.

[PaulG67]

I disagree with the big machine can do it all. At work we had a lathe that would swing 28" over the carriage and a 10 ft between centers. Doing small work in it was a real issue due to speed ranges, weight of everything, and the fact the big chuck didnt always close down small enough. Just cranking the carriage around was a pain. Some of us had a cable made up to wrap arounf the tail stock and pull it forward easier. Big machines are heavier and harder to work with, the bigger tooling dosnt always fit where its needed to be. Same with mills big mills tooling is heavy a big vise is a pain if you need a chainfall or cherrypicker every time you want to take it on or off. Spindle speeds may be to slow for smaller end mills and cutters.

In the range of machines being discussed here bigger is better. I'm sure the OP is not looking to get a 10 foot lathe to use for making sizing dies. IMO he should be looking for a used South Bend or Clausing/Cholchester machine, a Sheldon or Logan perhaps, in the 13" size range. It gives a machine with quick change threading and multiple feed ranges. Powered feed in two directions. By far easier to learn on.

[country gent]

One of the best lathes Ive ever used has been the hardringe solid bed tool room lathes at work 10" swing 24" between centers 1 1/2" hole thru spindle. dead accurate and most of all repatable. HAd 5c collets with front lever closers 3 jaws, 6 jaw and 4 jaw chucks. These were very solid stable machines variable speed spindles quick change threading box on them. Only drawback is the price they bring. 2 of them had digital readouts X, Y, and tailstock spindle. A real joy to run and use. with the Aloris type tool holder we made up for them and a few tool holders you could do alot of work quick.

[country gent]

I learned in a small job shop on an old white flat belt machine with no half nut for threading. Was asolid old machine. The mills were a round ram bridgport and a medium sized millwalkee horizontal machine, 2 drill pressed one flat belt capable of drilling 3" holes and a 1/2" floor model, a radial arm drill press. Both the big press and this radial had #4 morse tapers in the spindle. several turret lathes and shapers. Started in this shop when I was 15 years old.

[JSH]

PaulG67 hit the nail on the head.
I really appreciate the input from all. But, I am pressed on a place to put one much bigger than I am looking at. I may go the next size bigger, but I doubt it.
Now if three or four of you want to come help tote a big one down my basement stairs I may change my mind,lol. I and a buddy of mine put a big safe down there but I was 20 years younger
then.

[country gent]

Went with a buddy years ago to look at a rifling lathe near here. We got there there were several out buildings garage barn and a machine shed all in good repair with large doors. Guy came out we introduced our selves and talked a few minutes or so. He asked if we wanted to see the machine. and started for the house. We followed really curious. He led us into the basement where there was a sine bar rifling lathe sitting. It was set into the basement and house built on top of it. Would have had to escavate one side away remove wall to get it out then rebuild and landscape.

[MaryB]

I am not doing production levels, I may mill 6 amp cavities a year for high end preamps I build... lately I have been trying bent copper sheet cavities with soldered corners...

And I never take huge cuts, I go very slow and do not load the spindle. I am only milling a 2x2x.75" deep cavity most of the time so it is not a huge job. And yes I have caught the chuck coming loose. It gives a warning! I just shut down and keep the spindle down on the work until it stops.

I would love a proper milling machine but I do not have $2k laying around to get one!


Not to mention you will wear out the bearings in your drill press with that cross slide vise. Drill presses aren't designed for side to side loads.

[FLINTNFIRE]

So here is a micro mill that I ran across online any knowledge on these http://www.taigtools.com/mmill.html

[bangerjim]

So here is a micro mill that I ran across online any knowledge on these http://www.taigtools.com/mmill.html

This place is just down the street from my office and I have been there to pick up several parts to use in custom tooling set-ups I have build in the past.

The mills listed are definitely better than a Sherline toy but still made for lighter work. The HF midi mill may be better: more power, more cpacity and uses standard R8 tooling. I have one of the HF midi mills in my model shop and have had excellent luck with it. Bought it when the HF store a mile away still stocked them! Now all they stock is the tiny mini under-powered toy low-end version.

[oldred]

I would love a proper milling machine but I do not have $2k laying around to get one!

You don't need anywhere near that much for one of the little mills and any of them would be orders of magnitude better than any drill press. As far as the chuck giving warning, it often does but not always and that one trip to the ER could easily cost way more than a table top milling machine!

No joke, doing this is very dangerous and it will get you eventually when you least expect it. The fact that you have been catching the chuck falling out, so far anyway, is proof of what I am saying and all it takes is one time that you don't or can't see it and all hell can break loose! I am not kidding, I have seen this happen and it's amazing how fast that thing will move and how much territory it can cover in a matter of seconds! That mine foreman I mentioned had lifted the quill and let go of the handles and he was actually reaching for the shutoff switch when the chuck fell out and took off across the shop floor scattering everyone in there, unfortunately it's path took it across his left arm first. If you ever witness this happening you will see what I am talking about, the potential for disaster is all too real and that thing can hit you before you even have time to flinch never mind dodging it!

[PaulG67]

Getting any of the lathes I mentioned into your basement is easier than you think, disassemble the machine and it and it is a simple two man job to get the pieces down a set of stairs and then reassemble.

[SSGOldfart]

Hey don't forget the chuck key to,mine knocked me out of
My chair yesterday,can't move about much today. I seen a warning about the chuck. The key kicks worse than a 45/70 HOT Load.:oops::bigsmyl2::oops:

[FrankG]

This is my 1913 16x60 Cincinnati flatbelt I got for 300 bucks . It didnt have the top pulleys for the speed change and a friend made me a set with pipe . I made a framework and clutch to disengage drive .
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b74/ModocWrangler/lathe/lathe001.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/ModocWrangler/media/lathe/lathe001.jpg.html)

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b74/ModocWrangler/lathe/lathe002.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/ModocWrangler/media/lathe/lathe002.jpg.html)

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b74/ModocWrangler/lathe/lathe003.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/ModocWrangler/media/lathe/lathe003.jpg.html)

[smokeywolf]

The old flat leather belt drive (aka, cone drive) lathes were and still are wonderful machines. We had three in the shop when I did my apprenticeship; two Hendeys and a 1898 Hardinge Cataract toolroom lathe. We also had 3 flat leather belt drive Avey drill presses. As I ran the tool crib for 2 years, one of my jobs was to lace new belts for those machines. Didn't make up too many as it's not unusual for a belt to go nearly 20,000 hours over 10 years.

[country gent]

First shop I worked in almost all the lathes were converted flat belts. Still had the flat belt but instead of the jack shaft had an electric motor for each one. A cople had a 3 or 4 speed transmison fitted in line, was easier than changing belt on pulley for speed change. These were whites and Americans I believe. A little belt dressing and they didnt slip alot and the belts lasted forever. We did have a freestanding unit for lacing belts. But in the 4 years I worked there never needed it. Did have to replace the cat gut "pin" in the lacing once or twice. There was a warney and Swaset 3A (?) turret lathe with 8" hole thru spindle that was flat belt also. This machine was a monster and ran rail road gear box castings. Only a few machines were gear head in this shop. I enjoyed the old flat belt machines. Learned to bore on a dead center and a steady rest on the one. I learned alot starting out in this little Job shop from those 2 old craftsmen.

[Ole Joe Clarke]

That would be Warner Swasey I think. We used to have a couple, back in the day.
You always have to be alert when operating power equipment. I saw a guy grab a bird nest of stringy chips on a lathe one time, they are sharp as a razor and after he had his fingers repaired, I don't think he ever did that again.

Saw the results of a 70 plus pound shaft come out of a lathe, sail over a guys head, (thank the Lord), and knock a hole in the outside wall of the shop. The operator forgot to run the live center into the end of the shaft and tighten it down.

I would like to have a Hardinge tool room lathe, they are the cat's meow. Beautiful piece of machinery.

[oldred]

That would be Warner Swasey I think. We used to have a couple, back in the day.
You always have to be alert when operating power equipment. I saw a guy grab a bird nest of stringy chips on a lathe one time, they are sharp as a razor and after he had his fingers repaired, I don't think he ever did that again.

Saw the results of a 70 plus pound shaft come out of a lathe, sail over a guys head, (thank the Lord), and knock a hole in the outside wall of the shop. The operator forgot to run the live center into the end of the shaft and tighten it down.

Its amazing how much energy even a fairly small spinning piece of metal will have stored up and just how fast things can happen if it lets go! Even something like that drill chuck mentioned earlier can have a surprising amount of energy to disperse if it falls free after the quill is lifted, that chuck I mentioned at the mine was a 5/8" Jacobs and IIRC with a 1/2" end mill milling a fiberglass block. When he lifted the quill the chuck was still spinning at full speed when it fell out and took off across that shop floor like a steel top, it bounced around and hit several objects before it stopped and could have done even more damage than it actually did. Fortunately for everyone else it only hit the guy running the drill but the point is these things happen in an instant and most folks have no idea just how violent the incidents can be.

The chuck key mentioned above is another good example, happens all the time and is likely the most common lathe accident and many serious injuries have been attributed to this happening, just like that drill chuck it just has to be seen to fully appreciate what can happen.

[Mal Paso]

I have one of the HF midi mills in my model shop and have had excellent luck with it. Bought it when the HF store a mile away still stocked them! Now all they stock is the tiny mini under-powered toy low-end version.

Is the "midi" the 750 pound one? I see 3 listed and it's the middle one at $1200.

[country gent]

Yes it was warner and swaey I mis type occasionally due to numb fingers. That machine was a beast to run everything was big heavy and massive. HAd one foster gear head with 2 tool posts one front one back side of part. tools in back were mounted upside down. That was a nice machine to run and we normally parted with the back tool post sice cutting fluid got into tool better from the back side and chips flushed out better.

[troyboy]

I have a HF mini lathe I got used about 4 years ago. Best money I ever spent. It allows you to make all kind of things. Check out Varmit Al's webpage. If I had it to do over id do it again. Even if the space was available for a larger lathe i would keep the mini for small jobs. The mini will always have a spot on my loading bench.

[Baryngyl]

I have a HF mini lathe I got used about 4 years ago. Best money I ever spent. It allows you to make all kind of things. Check out Varmit Al's webpage. If I had it to do over id do it again. Even if the space was available for a larger lathe i would keep the mini for small jobs. The mini will always have a spot on my loading bench.

I bought a Bolton Tools AT125 Mini Multipurpose machine, same as the old Harbor Freight item number 39743, apparently it is unable to do 14-TPI, the lowest/course-est thread it lists is 16-TPI, does anyone know how I might be able to cut 14-TPI?

It has 4 different places to put change gears inside, well kinda, 3 of the gears easily change, the forth, the one on the spindle says in the manual (W refers to the gear on the Spindle) "Gear W generally requires no change".
From looking at the gear W it appears to maybe be pressed on, it does not have a key way like all the rest do, they are held on by a small bolt and washer.

I can email a PDF copy of the owners manual to anyone if they need it to look at to help me.

Yeah, I know this is one of the cheap Chinese pieces of junk, LOL, but it was what I could afford, it was just over 1/2 price of new cost and it came with a bit of tools. It will be good enuf for me to learn and practice on, just want to make a few sizing dies (LEE push thru type and maybe Lyman type), try to make a gascheck maker, not sure what else.


Thank You
Michael Grace

[HollowPoint]

I bought a Bolton Tools AT125 Mini Multipurpose machine, same as the old Harbor Freight item number 39743, apparently it is unable to do 14-TPI, the lowest/course-est thread it lists is 16-TPI, does anyone know how I might be able to cut 14-TPI?

It has 4 different places to put change gears inside, well kinda, 3 of the gears easily change, the forth, the one on the spindle says in the manual (W refers to the gear on the Spindle) "Gear W generally requires no change".
From looking at the gear W it appears to maybe be pressed on, it does not have a key way like all the rest do, they are held on by a small bolt and washer.

I can email a PDF copy of the owners manual to anyone if they need it to look at to help me.

Yeah, I know this is one of the cheap Chinese pieces of junk, LOL, but it was what I could afford, it was just over 1/2 price of new cost and it came with a bit of tools. It will be good enuf for me to learn and practice on, just want to make a few sizing dies (LEE push thru type and maybe Lyman type), try to make a gascheck maker, not sure what else.


Thank You
Michael Grace


I'm sure it's similar in situation to setting up the gears to go from standard threads to metric threads. You just need the correct pulley with the correct number of teeth on it. (which your machine may not include) If the instruction manual states that 16 tpi is the coarsest, it may be possible to bring it to 14 tpi with a specialty pulley that was offered separately or designed as a custom option.

I would check online for users groups that use this specific machine and its clones. By now they have most likely figured out how to work around the parameters that this little machine was built to perform within.

It was a "Cheap Chinese Junk" mini mill and lathe that I used to learn on as well. I used mine to make all kinds of stuff; including bullet sizers and gascheck makers. The folks that do the berating of these little chinese machines are usually the guys that have the money to buy better machines from the get-go. This makes it hard for them to understand the mindset of those of us who just want to start somewhere with the budgets we have to work with.

Starting at the beginning is the best place to start. It's an awesome thing to be able to buy the best right off the bat but, for me, that would have been like starting in the middle rather than starting at the beginning.

HollowPoint

[oldred]

It was a "Cheap Chinese Junk" mini mill and lathe that I used to learn on as well. I used mine to make all kinds of stuff; including bullet sizers and gascheck makers. The folks that do the berating of these little chinese machines are usually the guys that have the money to buy better machines from the get-go. This makes it hard for them to understand the mindset of those of us who just want to start somewhere with the budgets we have to work with. Starting at the beginning is the best place to start. It's an awesome thing to be able to buy the best right off the bat but, for me, that would have been like starting in the middle rather than starting at the beginning.

HollowPoint


A lot of the people who diss the Chinese machines have never owned or used one and just automatically tell folks to avoid them at all costs. Those import machines have made all the difference in the world for a lot of folks between owning a usable machine or having nothing at all! Sure a nice older industrial machine would be a better choice if one could be found at an affordable price and good deals do sometimes come up but there are a couple of things that need to be considered, first most are well used because they are old and used in an industrial setting for many years. They most often have at least some wear and while a good used one can sometimes be found it's not as if a person can just go shopping for the machine they want, they have to search through used machinery looking for something that has the features they need for a price they can afford and that's IF they can find one that's not worn out!

The fact is the Chinese stuff can be very useful as long as it's not bottom of the barrel junk and I would much rather have a new ready to use Chinese lathe or mill than a worn older industrial machine. I myself searched for a long time for both my lathe and mill looking at used machines but after months of looking at worn ways, sloppy lead screws and mill tables that looked like the surface of the moon I just gave up and bought a new Chinese lathe for the same price as the worn out stuff I had been looking at. That was nine years ago and the lathe is still churning along without ever giving any trouble at all, it has plenty of power and it's as accurate as anything I have ever run plus it has a lot of modern features that the older machines lacked! For a mill I bought one of the common little table top mills with the reasoning that it would be better than the milling attachment I was using with my lathe but after using it a while and a few mods to improve the design flaws, easy to do BTW, I got to like that thing a lot. I now have a solid Taiwanese built Bridgeport clone and while it obviously is waaaaayyyy more machine than that little table top outfit I still find myself using the little one quite often for smaller stuff because it works just fine and is so darn handy, I changed my mind about the plan to sell it after getting the big mill. There is nothing wrong with buying these little Chinese machines as a starter, just don't buy too small, and bear in mind that a new import is likely to be much more useful than a worn out industrial machine!

[country gent]

My only issue with the lighter built machines is after 35 years running industrial machines ( monarch hendi american hardringe lathes. Cincinatti Monarch bridge port index mills heavy surface grinders, Boring mills blanchard grinders ect et) I tend to machine to heavy for the lighter machines to hold up to very long. Making shafts we turned the bearing ends in 2 passes ussually touch crank in 1/4"-3/8" to get with in .050 and measure and a finish pass. Same with mills we ran an endmill depth of flutes and stepped over .020-.030 a pass. Heavy equipment spoils you and allows alot more leeway.

[oldred]

My only issue with the lighter built machines is after 35 years running industrial machines ( monarch hendi american hardringe lathes. Cincinatti Monarch bridge port index mills heavy surface grinders, Boring mills blanchard grinders ect et) I tend to machine to heavy for the lighter machines to hold up to very long. Making shafts we turned the bearing ends in 2 passes ussually touch crank in 1/4"-3/8" to get with in .050 and measure and a finish pass. Same with mills we ran an endmill depth of flutes and stepped over .020-.030 a pass. Heavy equipment spoils you and allows alot more leeway.

There simply is no disputing that and if a person has the chance to obtain something like that and has a place to put it and power it then it would make little sense to buy Chinese, as much as I like my import machines I have no illusions that they are in any way equal to real industrial equipment. A good example is the little table top mill, while it is "rated" for 1/2" end mills for instance I find that 1/4" is the real limit due to the lack of rigidity, having enough power to "run" the larger tooling and actually being able to produce usable results are two entirely different things! Still where time is not an issue in a home shop environment something like that little mill can be handy as a shirt pocket!

About a month ago I broke one of those cheap cast Aluminum blade spindles on my Lawn tractor deck when I hit a root sticking out of the ground, my big mill was tied up with a large setup I didn't want to tear down so I used my table top mill to make a new blade spindle housing from steel. It worked perfectly even though it took at least three times as long to do as it would have on the bigger mill but like suggested above in this type of use environment it hardly mattered and my mower was back up and running in a few hours.

BTW fellows it's things like that happening that will make you wonder how you got along without these machines! That little mill has paid for itself just doing jobs such as that for my own use, that blade spindle would have cost me around $100 and the time spent chasing it down would have been only a little less than the time spent making it and the steel one I made is FAR better than that cheap Aluminum casting. These things would be all but useless in a working shop, no doubt about it, but for home hobby use they can be a very good investment as long as their limitations are understood and respected.

[C.F.Plinker]

I bought a Bolton Tools AT125 Mini Multipurpose machine, same as the old Harbor Freight item number 39743, apparently it is unable to do 14-TPI, the lowest/course-est thread it lists is 16-TPI, does anyone know how I might be able to cut 14-TPI?

It has 4 different places to put change gears inside, well kinda, 3 of the gears easily change, the forth, the one on the spindle says in the manual (W refers to the gear on the Spindle) "Gear W generally requires no change".
From looking at the gear W it appears to maybe be pressed on, it does not have a key way like all the rest do, they are held on by a small bolt and washer.


Thank You
Michael Grace

Two suggestions assuming that you have a 16 tpi lead screw. First from top to bottom 40 teeth, any, any, 35 teeth. Only the gears on the inner position are engaged. The outer gear on the middle shaft doesn't do anything.

The second is 80, 35, 40, 80 teeth. 80 teeth on the upper shaft, 35 on the inner position of the middle shaft and 40 on the outer position of the middle shaft. The spacer is on the inner position of the lower shaft and the other 80 tooth gear is on the outer position.

Hope this helps.

[smokeywolf]

My only issue with the lighter built machines is after 35 years running industrial machines ( monarch hendi american hardringe lathes. Cincinatti Monarch bridge port index mills heavy surface grinders, Boring mills blanchard grinders ect et) I tend to machine to heavy for the lighter machines to hold up to very long. Making shafts we turned the bearing ends in 2 passes ussually touch crank in 1/4"-3/8" to get with in .050 and measure and a finish pass. Same with mills we ran an endmill depth of flutes and stepped over .020-.030 a pass. Heavy equipment spoils you and allows alot more leeway.

Some of those names bring back memories.

First lathe I ran was a 17" X 54" Cincinnati Hydra-Shift. Ran lots of Hardinge HLVs, second ops and turrets. Had a Index toolmaker's mill in between a Bridgeport and a WEBB Champ.
When roughing, I like to use a coated high percentage cobalt or powdered metal, fast helix endmill, climb and take half the diameter of the endmill each pass.

Our heaviest machine though, was a 19 X 80 Lodge & Shipley built in 1919. With the right tool and the right grind, you could take 5/16 off the O.D. of a piece of 316 stainless, each pass. Great machine.

[Ole Joe Clarke]

Back in the day, when I worked in the shop, I ran a Hardinge second op machine. One of the parts I well remember was an aluminum standoff, 1" O/L x 7/16" dia. with a countersink hole about 1/8 diameter drilled 1/2 way through, length wise. They used to bring them to me in 30 gallon drums to drill the hole the remainder of the way through and csink it. I had a setup with 3 sets of tools in the turret so I didn't waste time indexing. I finally convinced them to attach a air cylinder to the turret, with a foot control, so I could just load and unload parts. Talk about boring. :-(

[leebuilder]

I started with a unimate lathe/mill. Sold it and got the taig mini with mill attachment, small I know but very accurate and still use it alot. It can't thread, but made a few mini steam engines and other nifty progects
I have a Smithy lathe/mill combo works well and is accurate. I would have incurred a major cost bringing 3 phase to the house so the 115volt,3/4 hp is what I ended up with.
Be well

[oldred]

I would have incurred a major cost bringing 3 phase to the house so the 115volt,3/4 hp is what I ended up with.Be well


No need to bring 3 phase power in, even if they would do it for you, there are a couple of ways to run 3 phase machines on household current. The cheapest is a simple static converter but that only gives about two thirds of rated power, next is the more costly rotary converter which will give full power but actually the newcomer on the block is the best way and just about makes rotary converters obsolete. The VFD units will let you power anything within reason from either 110 or 220 single phase outlets, not only that but it will teach an old style single direction motor a lot of neat new tricks! Things they couldn't do before such as instant reverse, smooth variable speed in both directions, dynamic breaking, etc all for about the cost of a smaller rotary converter. These things work so well with 3 phase motors and do so many things that wasn't practical in the original single phase configuration that some folks are replacing their single phase motors with 3 phase to get the advantages of the VFD units. There is no real reason to avoid 3 phase equipment because of the lack of 3 phase service unless such equipment is simply too big and requires too much power regardless of single or 3 phase, indeed these days 3 phase motors are a plus and a desirable feature rather than something to avoid!

[JSH]

Well I have burned a fair bit of midnight oil. I did right of the bat as several suggested go one size bigger. Well the local to me grizzly didn't have it in stock. So I looked at the next up and the next one after that, out of stock also. Sooo I decided to do a bit more looking and searching. I also decided I wasn't going to drive a long distance to find that what was advertised was junk or advertised as such. Just enough pictures to interest me yet not enough to really tell much. After a closer inspection it looks to have some missing parts according to the diagram I found.
Gent is asking $900 with no tooling to speak of. At that price, I can get a brand new with more extras and still have some, but not as much as I had planned on for tooling.
Yes maybe the SB will be worth a few dollars more down the road. But with the age, wear and unknown abuse of these old machines I just can't see it as a good move on my part.
I did run across another one locally that will be up for auction in a bit more than a month. I will take a swag and say it will bring over $2000, from what I have seen these go for. Yet it could go over or under that drastically as we all know to well. He does have a lot of tooling and I am going to check on that as well.
Bottom line for me as of today, my budget is shot to **** for what I originally had planned. May just sell some of my projects and extras and move on. Projects always seem to show up any way lol.
jeff

[oldred]

Don't rule out the import lathes because of quality issues if you are looking at some of the larger machines, quality simply does not seem to be an issue with the 12 inch swing and larger import machines. In any given size range, especially 12 to 14 inch swing, the imports usually have more features and very often a larger spindle through hole which can be VERY important to a gunsmith. There seems to be no shortage of warnings about the junk quality of these import lathes but oddly it seems to come from those who have never owned one and a quick search of the 'net will find a lot of folks who are quite happy with their imports while at the same time there are few complaints to be found! If quality was the issue that some would have everyone believe then the forums would be crowded with complaints and warnings from dissatisfied owners but that's not at all the case. A bigger import for the same price as an older industrial machine is often the best choice because no matter how well the industrial outfit is built that won't help much if the project won't fit or the needed capability is not there! Size and capability can be very important and should not be given up over a quality myth, while it's very true that the industrial machines were better built it's still a myth that all the imports are junk that's going to fall apart, that's simply not true!

[HollowPoint]

I am one of those who posted in this thread warning about the cheap Chinese lathes. I have never owned one and never will. As was mentioned in the quote above I was commenting on the little 7x12 and 7x14 lathes that sell for 5 or 6 hundred dollars. I looked one over pretty carefully at the local Harbor Freight and can't believe what a *** it was. I have run a lot of lathes in my 40 years as a machinist including the last 20 as co-owner of my own shop. After leaving the business I wanted a small lathe for my basement. It took me 6 months of looking at a lot of junk to find an old South Bend 9A. I have less money in it than the HF lathe and a far better machine.


Good for you; I'm not trying to be facetious, I mean it. Enjoy what you have but please stop assuming that just because your experience with these cheap little import lathes didn't meet your preferences or machining experience levels they are not fit for anyone else to use or buy.

I'm happy to have taken the learning route I took with these little mini mills and lathes. I'm confident that many, many others have done the same and used them to make some pretty fantastic things. I suspect that for every negative post about these low-end machines that have been made in threads like this, at least ten times as many positives have been made by those who simply just wanted to get started with getting into making their own stuff.

The OP's inquiry is not a new one. Do a search on this forum for similar threads and you'll be surprised at how many there are. The replies to these types of threads all have a similar pattern; so much so that I could swear that some of them were word for word warnings to steer away from them.

You don't seem to realize that the experience you have with machining that leads you to put up the type of intimidating or demeaning posts that you do, is the same experience that we who don't yet have that experience, are hoping to gain by starting with the smaller machines.

HollowPoint

[oldred]

I am one of those who posted in this thread warning about the cheap Chinese lathes. I have never owned one and never will. As was mentioned in the quote above I was commenting on the little 7x12 and 7x14 lathes that sell for 5 or 6 hundred dollars. I looked one over pretty carefully at the local Harbor Freight and can't believe what a *** it was. I have run a lot of lathes in my 40 years as a machinist including the last 20 as co-owner of my own shop. After leaving the business I wanted a small lathe for my basement. It took me 6 months of looking at a lot of junk to find an old South Bend 9A. I have less money in it than the HF lathe and a far better machine.

I said the 12 in and larger machines and I will stand by what I said and I not only DO own an import but I am well familiar with "old iron" also so I do know the difference! It's well known that there is a huge quality difference between the larger import lathes and the table top toy versions, for the price of a GOOD UNWORN, if it can be found, 9 inch industrial lathe a person can have a new lathe with 3" more swing and a gap bed allowing even more clearance than that for some jobs plus a bigger spindle hole! Having that well built American industrial iron might be nice but not when you are looking at a job that won't clear the ways due to lack of swing or a part, such as some barrels, that's to big to fit through the spindle hole. All that industrial quality is useless if the work simply won't fit in the machine.

My 14x40 Import has run almost daily for nine years now rebuilding farm, logging and mining machinery in addition to the hobby use I originally bought it for and it is still a long way from worn out, the point is for gunsmithing and hobby work a person would likely never put either the hours or the heavy use on their machines that mine has seen and I have never lacked for reliability, accuracy or power! What I would have lacked was the ability to fit a lot of this work into a smaller industrial machine so I quite simply would have had extra difficultly doing the job or simply I quite often would not have been able to do it at all! I will take a new larger import any day over a smaller industrial machine that often lacks the abilities of the import and all too often requires trying to "work around" worn spots in the ways, sloppy lead screws etc from years of use on the factory floor. If you found a good one and it fit's you needs then good for you but despite what some want to believe those machines are not common and are simply not an option for everyone.

Judging the quality of all the imports, regardless of size, based on looking at a couple of hobby type table top machines at Harbor Freight is quite meaningless!

[oldred]

I suspect that for every negative post about these low-end machines that have been made in threads like this, at least ten times as many positives have been made by those who simply just wanted to get started with getting into making their own stuff

Exactly, I have checked the 'net for this very subject and I can confidently say that your suspicion is definitely more than justified, if anyone doubts that it only takes a few minutes to see the scarcity of complaints from folks who actually own and use these things! ! I have made it quite clear that I am in no way trying to say the imports are just as good as the older industrial machines, at least from an engineering and original quality standpoint, but what I am saying is that most folks would be much happier with a brand new ready to run machine that still has all the accuracy, power and yes even the reliability to do anything the owner needs and likely even more so than a high time smaller industrial machine! For what my new import lathe cost I could not have gotten near the size capability and some other features such as the larger spindle, modern type chuck mounting, zero worn ways and lead screws (and yes the ways are hardened!) along with QC gearbox, etc. Sure it's nice to run upon a good unworn fully featured American lathe at an affordable price but good luck with that! It makes a heck of a lot more sense to a lot of folks to start out with a brand new ready to run machine with the capabilities they need or want instead of trying work around worn spots or having to rebuild an older machine and then having to work around it's size and other capability limitations, not all imports are junk!

[marvelshooter]

Good for you; I'm not trying to be facetious, I mean it. Enjoy what you have but please stop assuming that just because your experience with these cheap little import lathes didn't meet your preferences or machining experience levels they are not fit for anyone else to use or buy.
You don't seem to realize that the experience you have with machining that leads you to put up the type of intimidating or demeaning posts that you do,
I certainly did not mean to come across in any of the ways you describe. I thought we were allowed to express our opinions as we saw them. My post has been deleted and I will sign off for a while.

[HollowPoint]

You're a good guy marvelshooter. I'm sorry too for coming across like a prick. Over and out.

HollowPoint

[Baryngyl]

Two suggestions assuming that you have a 16 tpi lead screw. First from top to bottom 40 teeth, any, any, 35 teeth. Only the gears on the inner position are engaged. The outer gear on the middle shaft doesn't do anything.

The second is 80, 35, 40, 80 teeth. 80 teeth on the upper shaft, 35 on the inner position of the middle shaft and 40 on the outer position of the middle shaft. The spacer is on the inner position of the lower shaft and the other 80 tooth gear is on the outer position.

Hope this helps.

The problem is the non-changeable (not easily changeable, I do not know how to change it anyway, if it is changeable at all) 24 tooth gear on the spindle, I have the following gears, 65, 60, 55, 50, 45, 40, 35, 34, 30, 21, 20.



Michael Grace

[rondog]

I'd love to find one of those crappy little Harbor Freight mini lathes used that somebody wanted to unload cheap! I don't need to manufacture things, but one would be awesome to have for many little uses.

[C.F.Plinker]

The problem is the non-changeable (not easily changeable, I do not know how to change it anyway, if it is changeable at all) 24 tooth gear on the spindle, I have the following gears, 65, 60, 55, 50, 45, 40, 35, 34, 30, 21, 20.



Michael Grace

All I can look at is my mini-lathe. Could you post a picture of the gearing on your lathe so we can see what you are working with. Mine is not HF but is made by the same factory so it could be similar to yours. The spindle gear is at the very top. Mine has about 45 teeth. Below it are the two gears that are used to change the direction of the lead screw. These engage with another gear that has the top change gear on the same shaft. It is not necessary to remove the gear on the spindle or the gears that change direction in order to change the speed of the lead screw. There is a 5.0mm (wrench size) socket head screw holding the upper change gear onto that shaft. This is often referred to as the "A" gear. The "B" inner and "C" outer gears are on a bolt that goes through a pivoting plate. The hex head bolt that holds it in position is near the bottom on the left side. The gears are held onto the bolt with another 5mm socket socket head screw. The bottom "D" gear is held onto the lead screw shaft with another 5mm socket head screw.

You have the 40 and 35 tooth gears which are the ones that determine the speed of the lead screw. These would go in the A and D positions. Any gear that would fit would go in the inner B position and another gear in the C position. When changing gears break the screws loose first, then loosen the bolt that holds the pivoting plate loose. Now things will move and you can carefully pull (pry if necessary) the gears off their respective shafts. Some of them are very tight so pry on both sides if you have to pry. When you have the new gears in position tighten the socket head screws down first then pivot the plate into position and tighten down its bolt. Put some grease on the gears to keep the teeth lubricated.

EDIT

I didn't pick up on the fact that you have a 3 in 1 rather than a mini-lathe quick enough. The gearing is quite different from my mini-lathe so disregard what I gave above. All I could find was a copy of the instruction manual. Here is the link in case you don't have one.

http://images.harborfreight.com/manuals/39000-39999/39743.PDF

Sorry I can't help with the gears for the one you have.

EDIT 2

The manual seems to show that the spindle gear engages the Z1 gear which, in turn engages the outer Z2 gear. This also means that the number of teeth on the Z1 gear doesn't matter. The inner Z2 gear then engages the L1 gear which is on the lead screw shaft.

It looks like you can do 14 tpi with the following gearing:

Spindle 24
Z1 60 for now
Z2 outer 21
Z2 inner 55
L1 55

You will need to get a second 55 tooth gear. If the two 55 tooth gears take up too much space replace the Z1 gear with a smaller gear so the Z2 shaft can move closer to the spindle shaft.

You might want to dry fit the 60 in the L1 position to see what you will need in the Z1 position before you order the 55 tooth gear.

[Baryngyl]

EDIT 2

The manual seems to show that the spindle gear engages the Z1 gear which, in turn engages the outer Z2 gear. This also means that the number of teeth on the Z1 gear doesn't matter. The inner Z2 gear then engages the L1 gear which is on the lead screw shaft.

It looks like you can do 14 tpi with the following gearing:

Spindle 24
Z1 60 for now
Z2 outer 21
Z2 inner 55
L1 55

You will need to get a second 55 tooth gear. If the two 55 tooth gears take up too much space replace the Z1 gear with a smaller gear so the Z2 shaft can move closer to the spindle shaft.

You might want to dry fit the 60 in the L1 position to see what you will need in the Z1 position before you order the 55 tooth gear.

Yes, positions Z1 and Z2 if they have 2 gears on them they are locked together and spin as if it is two gears welded together, some times you just use a very small gear on the outside of Z1 and Z2 just as spacers and they do nothing else.
Other times W spins Z1-inner, Z1-outer is then spinning Z2-outer, Z2-inner is then spinning L.

I will go out and take a look and see if that combo of gears will fit on there and then see about finding and ordering another gear.

I am still trying to work out what gears do what, to cut 28-TPI it is W-24, Z1-55, Z2-34 and 30, L-35, so to cut 14-TPI which is 1/2 of that, couldn't one of those gears (34 or 30) be either 1/2 or double the number of teeth?



Michael Grace

[C.F.Plinker]

Yes, positions Z1 and Z2 if they have 2 gears on them they are locked together and spin as if it is two gears welded together, some times you just use a very small gear on the outside of Z1 and Z2 just as spacers and they do nothing else.
Other times W spins Z1-inner, Z1-outer is then spinning Z2-outer, Z1-inner is then spinning L.

I will go out and take a look and see if that combo of gears will fit on there and then see about finding and ordering another gear.

I am still trying to work out what gears do what, to cut 28-TPI it is W-24, Z1-55, Z2-34 and 30, L-35, so to cut 14-TPI which is 1/2 of that, couldn't one of those gears (34 or 30) be either 1/2 or double the number of teeth?



Michael Grace

For 14 tpi the outer Z2 gear would be half OR the inner Z2 would be double the number of teeth for 28 tpi.

For 28tpi the instruction book I linked to above has W-24, Z1-55, Z2-35 and 50, L-60. Try this with L-30 instead of 60 and see if that gives you the 14tpi.

[Any Cal.]

Think of a buying a machine tool like buying a multi-drawer toolbox. Super efficient when full of the right tools, but almost useless when not outfitted properly for that particular job. If you don't have a vise, drill press, table or chop saw, 4" grinder, welder, and a full complement of accessories for those, skip the machine tools- you will accomplish much more with the other tools, and then adding the machine tools will expand your capabilities beyond that.

I LOVE machining, but find it impractical for many people. I have had a 6x18 Atlas, 8x36 Atlas, and a 5700lb Shizouka CNC mill. Currently, I have just the 618, which I don't have time to use.

Forget the cost of the lathe, it is just a drop in the bucket. You also need measuring equipment, which will cost as much or more than the lathe. 1 and 2" mic, calipers, vernier calipers, small hole gages, indicators and holders, thread pitch gage, eventually thread pins, depth gages, pin gage sets. Add a grinder or sander for sharpening lathe tools, tool storage. Then the consumables... HSS bits, carbide bits and holders, drills, center drills, taps, dies, cutting fluids and coolant, files, abrasives... Lastly, you will need a way to organize and store all of this, along with your cutting stock, in a way that allows you room to work efficiently. If getting into a full size machine or two , you need most of a 1 car garage. For a benchtop lathe, a 2x4 workbench full of stuff underneath and pegboard on the wall behind might do OK.

That is just for the lathe, which uses considerably less tooling than a mill!

The mill IMO, is more useful today than a lathe, but at the expense of requiring far more tooling. Additionally, the manual mills require even more tooling that CNC does not, like radius tables, DROs, etc. There is a reason no one is using them much anymore- the set-up time is ridiculous.

I have used my tools for lots of personal jobs, but feel that it is a LOT of hassle for the modest output. If you have the room, time, excess disposable funds, and the desire to learn... it can be fun. If you want to accomplish something, learn drafting skills and have parts made and shipped to you.

[JSH]

SoCal so much of what you describe follows well into other areas of ones interest.
A first firearm purchase is not a drop in the bucket compared to what can be used. Then when it one starts reloading the extras can pile up in a hurry. Dies,brass,expanders,shell holders, neck turners, etc.
However there are a lot of gadgets that one does not absolutely have to have. They may make a job easier or faster, but they are not really needed.

One does not need an electric pot,yet most people have at least one. A lube sizer is also not needed, yet they still sell a lot of them.

I have seen a lot of newbies get into reloading thinking they will save a vast amount of money. They actually do very little shooting by most standards. They would have been way better off putting all of their money towards ammo and just go on in the long run. I know of three such situations in close proximity to me now. Stuff just setting there, never having loaded more than I shoot on a weekend.
Inhave seen the same with folks casting. They start off gung-ho and it peters out fairly soon. They either don't have the interest or that four letter word called work comes out.
As I mention above I have access to equipment, lathes mills and tooling, along with the knowledge to teach me whilst I am there. But the largest inconvenience is the time driving to and from.
A mill is in my future I am pretty sure. But for what I have done project wise in the past, a mill was needed once that I recall. Then after I took said project there it ended up being set up on the lathe.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Similarly I think it is true what people say about some Chinese HSS cutting tools. Maybe not all, for they make ICBMs for themselves, but a high proportion of the market, where the customer seldom commissions a chemical analysis to get his $10 back, probably aren't high speed steel as usually constituted. They would cut brass or mild steel rather well, but I would use them very slowly or well cooled on even barrel steel, let alone receivers, bolts etc. It can be argued, of course, that few of the great gunmakers of the nineteenth century saw anything better, but for a few dollars more, you can. Nonetheless the amateur starting out is going to make mistakes that will ruin any tool, and my advice would be to lay in a stock of cheap Chinese tools to learn about toolbreaking on, before you proceed to the real work.

I did, however, find an application where the distinctive properties of Chinese "HSS" are very useful. I want to line the barrel of my .32-40 Winchester with a 9/16in. liner from TJ's, and due to a quirk of British government policy, I wanted the very high degree of concentricity which will let me mate it up with the chamber Winchester made, with the case neck covering the join. If it is in the original chambering and made up to 1939 it is an antique, subject to no control on possession, purchase, import etc., and the original chamber kills any argument. We fought long and hard for that policy, and at the last they turned eminently sensible, so it would be rude not to take full advantage of it.

As I didn't want to rig up a high-pressure forced coolant feed for just one job, and needed good chip clearance, I decided to pull the cutting tool, silver soldered to a length of 5/16in, drill rod, which is a perfect fit in the bore. I drilled a 9/16in. cheap end mill with a straight carbide drill, and got it all concentric well within .002in. which should be fine for the grades of Loctite professional gunsmiths use for this work. The drill will be only about 3/4in. long, with a totally empty hole behind it for chip clearance. The rest will go ahead soon. I don't think that would work with really good high speed steel, and what I have should be fine for cutting an early Wincester barrel.

[Any Cal.]

JSH, you are right. It does apply to everything.

I got really good deals on all my equipment, and used it to make money. After that, I still wonder if I came out ahead for all of the trouble...

Now I have a good sized shop, and an addiction to making things. Currently building even more complex tools, to help me make tools and money....

Anyway, my recomendation, if you are wanting to get into it, is to start out in a way that moves you toward CNC. That way you can keep moving forward with your equipment and skills rather than starting all over. Get a mill or lathe with an eye toward converting it. The CNC will maximize what you can build, and make good use of your time. If you have access to other machines to help build conversion parts, all the better!

My current project is a CNC router stout enough to mill aluminum effectively. If I had more cash, I would probably look harder at CNCing a 500lb ish benchtop mill. There are conversion kits around for the mid size Grizzly and PMMatthews mills, as well as the Sieg X1, X2, etc.

[Baryngyl]

For 14 tpi the outer Z2 gear would be half OR the inner Z2 would be double the number of teeth for 28 tpi.

For 28tpi the instruction book I linked to above has W-24, Z1-55, Z2-35 and 50, L-60. Try this with L-30 instead of 60 and see if that gives you the 14tpi.

OK, I think I managed to get that combo of gears setup, had to loosen and move the axles/spindles that the gears ride on and in the process managed to have one of the C-Clips go sproinging off across the driveway and it was getting close to getting dark so I put everything away for the night and will get out my magnet and search for it tomorrow since I could not find the C-clip kit I have that has a ton of C-clips in it, if I can not find it I will go buy 1/2 a dozen of that size to keep on hand.

OK, a question on making a 7/8X14 piece, do I start with a 7/8 inch bar and cut the threads into it or do I need to start with 15/16 or 1 inch?

Thanks
Michael Grace

[Ole Joe Clarke]

Michael,

"OK, a question on making a 7/8X14 piece, do I start with a 7/8 inch bar and cut the threads into it or do I need to start with 15/16 or 1 inch?"

About stock for 7/8"-14 piece. You didn't say what your end product will be. If the part is to be precision machined, I would get a piece of 1" diameter and turn it down, otherwise a piece of 7/8" dia. cold rolled steel will be ok. If you turn the diameter to about .003 undersize, (.872) your threads will work fine.

[Baryngyl]

Michael,

"OK, a question on making a 7/8X14 piece, do I start with a 7/8 inch bar and cut the threads into it or do I need to start with 15/16 or 1 inch?"

About stock for 7/8"-14 piece. You didn't say what your end product will be. If the part is to be precision machined, I would get a piece of 1" diameter and turn it down, otherwise a piece of 7/8" dia. cold rolled steel will be ok. If you turn the diameter to about .003 undersize, (.872) your threads will work fine.

Mainly just to get a bit of practice on how to use it, I plan to try first making a couple LEE type sizing dies, then a bit later once I am pretty sure I am getting things done right I want to try making a few of the Freechex type gas-check makers, then after that who knows.




Michael Grace

[country gent]

You can use 7/8 round stock most cold rolled is .003-.005 undersized off the rack. Drill rod is normally spot on size and .010 oversized is available in some alloys. The od isnt what determines a threads fit but the depth its cut to. I once seen an apprentice turn a thread dia .025 undersized. .475 for a 1/2" thread. but he held the size of the thread over wires to the correct dimension. Fit great, turned into gage easy with little shake or play. It wasnt going to be as strong as the full dia but it was a thread of the proper size. A little thing most do is after the thread is close to size lightly remove the burr raised in points with a fine file as these can cause bind and you end up with a loose thread when its wore off after a couple times ran in and out. Go slow and check often. We checked threads with 3 wires and miced over them. for practical use measure the threads on a die or 2 with the 3 wires and cut your thread to the same reading or .002-.003 under it.

[Graybeard96]

I purchased a Lathe/Mill combination machine bout 15 years ago. Paid about 1700.** Cdn $ for this Chinese made piece and been very happy with it as it allows me to do fairly precise work also on larger pieces. I am no Machinist but own some Equipment which occasionally needs some obsolete parts made. Added a Live center, 4 Jaw, decent size milling vise and rotary Table shortly thereafter as I needed it. I use mostly HSS bits and have only a set of carbide bits for the stainless Steel stuff. Grizzly sold them as G4015Z. If my Shop (Doghouse) would have the extra Space I would have gone for the G9729 which has automatic cross feed. Cheers

[gunnut14]

JSH,
I am an 80 year old who had his journeyman machinist ticket at age 17.
Since then I have done set up and operated just about every kind of Lathe there is.
So much for my history.

I own a harbor freight mini lathe because that is all I have room for and all I want to own as to size.
I have built a spider chuck for the tail end that allows me to turn longer pieces.
With the four jaw chuck (came extra from Little Machine Shop.com) I have made several muzzle brakes for old milsurp rifles and have turned and threaded the barrels.
You can do a lot and learn a lot on a mini lathe that will stand you in good stead if you eventually decide to go up to a larger lathe.
Experience is experience no matter the size of the equipment.
The most important thing to remember is not to listen to those who say it can't be done.
Think it through and decide how to do something and go ahead and try.

Best of luck however you decide

gunnut14

[Chill Wills]

http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/5572506737.html

Not mine. These almost never come up in this area.

[Chill Wills]

Also, if you want to make a push through sizer to learn on - like a Lee
Choose a better machining steel like 12L14 over cold roll steel.
Check local metal supply or ebay for small amounts
Don't use Ace Hardware store or auto parts store coldroll (1018 steel) or some Chinese alloy -it will be very hard to get a good finish on - especially with you starting out.

You won't wear out 12L14 sizing lead alloy - if you ever somehow did, you will have had a LOT of fun doing it.

[warf73]

You won't wear out 12L14 sizing lead alloy - if you ever somehow did, you will have had a LOT of fun doing it.

Leaded steel sizing lead how ironic is that lol

[JSH]

After reading and chasing around some of the older early lathes, that are supposedly better, I have opted to move with one of the import lathes. The early ones have their own issues that have to be dealt with. As old as some are you either make parts build them your self. Then for what I have seen the older used lathes sell for I could buy two new ones or one new one and a pile of tooling.
I have been told, and advised numerous times to move up to the "next" size. Well I have done so twice, and really breaking my budget and I may have to wait a while on some of the tooling I want.
I think there are certain areas that machines are prett common. I am not in one of them.
Jeff

[Chill Wills]

Yup, Old American iron has its own following just like old rifles. (I have a WWII lathe and mill because they were my fathers)
I think you are on the right track.

[oldred]

After reading and chasing around some of the older early lathes, that are supposedly better, I have opted to move with one of the import lathes. The early ones have their own issues that have to be dealt with. As old as some are you either make parts build them your self. Then for what I have seen the older used lathes sell for I could buy two new ones or one new one and a pile of tooling.
I have been told, and advised numerous times to move up to the "next" size. Well I have done so twice, and really breaking my budget and I may have to wait a while on some of the tooling I want.
I think there are certain areas that machines are pretty common. I am not in one of them.
Jeff

Not sure what size you have decided on but except for the little hobby lathes most of the quality issues with the imports seem to be imaginary. Mine is a 14x40 that came from Harbor Freight of all places and is identical to the Birmingham YCL 1440, it even came with a Birmingham manual! My lathe has taken a beating rebuilding heavy parts for mining, logging and farming equipment and has done so without any problems for over eight years now, several other guys here in this area have these import machines ranging from 10x24 to a couple of the 14x40s like mine but 12x36 is the most common. Every single one of these machines are holding up just fine and if I had to buy another lathe I wouldn't hesitate to buy another import! To me it just makes sense, start out with zero wear and most often highly desirable features that are hard or impossible to find on the older domestic stuff and all for the price of a questionable condition old timer.

[GONRA]

The olde Clausing Vertical Mill is a nice thing to have if one shows up.
Breaks down into 3 manageable loads for moving, has nice big dials, etc.
You need a real "crank up bed" for making NICE HOLES in hardened sheet metal (UZI top plate).

Since 2001 retirement, GONRA has hadalotta fun making small carbide cutters
from broken carbide endmill scrap.
Made an "Eccentric Spindle Indexer" for my 1960's era South Bend 6K lathe.
Use el cheapo Harbor Freight diamond grinder bits/wheels,
45X centering scope in lathe tailstock for "first flute lineup".
Great for grinding radial clearances, etc.

These "Pointless Retired Man" projects go on and on.....

[Ole Joe Clarke]

Back in the day, late 1964 or early 65 I machined this "crank shaft" in trade school. Then years later I had it yellow chromate plated to stop the rust. Problem is, it doesn't fit anything. :-) I think the lathe was a Southbend or something similar.

http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad123/olejoeclark/Misc/1431175595664_zpsqyh0yra4.jpg (http://s928.photobucket.com/user/olejoeclark/media/Misc/1431175595664_zpsqyh0yra4.jpg.html)

[Dragonheart]

I own a Grizzly 7X12 and it is better than nothing, but it is very, very limited. If you go the mini-lathe I would suggest first getting an ER32 chuck & collets as these work quite well for round stock up to 20mm. I would also recommend a 4 jaw chuck for larger stock. The standard self centering 3 jaw is just okay. I personally wish I spent more and had gotten an old US made lathe in a more useful size, but you can't pick something like that up and move it across the room.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I have a 5c collet chuck, and it is very useful, allowing a capacity of up to 1⅛in. That is enough for plenty of barrels, and would be more valuable if my headstock bore could accommodate the rest of them. But you can get collets to fit the Morse tapered headstock, and there have the advantage of not cutting into the available length on a short lathe. They go up to ½in. in the 2MT taper, and 3/4in. or the slightly larger 20mm. in 2MT. You can also use them in the tailstock. The snag is that the MT collets are normally tightened by a drawbar. So they don't allow the workpiece to extend down the headstock spindle bore, unless it is for light turning on a small diameter rod, which will pass though the threaded drawbar hole. My Myford lathe has threads to fit a chuck, and it is possible to get a sort of threaded thimble to tighten up MT collets without the drawbar.

As to material for dies, do you have Volvo trucks in the US? Some of them have wheel studs which are 7/8-14 UNF threaded, but slightly enlarged above the thread. Not that you need loading or bullet sizing dies larger than 7/8in. diameter, but it looks very much the thing, and gives a better grip for unscrewing them. I have never liked subjecting my little lathe to the stress of knurling. These will not be free machining steel, I'm sure, and will need annealing. But carbide tools and lapping should make a good job.

[Col4570]

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s452/livebattery/019.jpg (http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/livebattery/media/019.jpg.html)
I have a Colchester Student Lathe,it will take 11/4" through the headstock.It has a Taper Turning Attachment,Screw cutting etc.It has a 2.5 HP Single Phase Motor.originaly when it came to me it had a 3 HP,3 Phase Motor.It will do most Gunsmithing jobs I need.

[ProfGAB101]

I just spent about $8000 on a used CNC turning center.

Its going to cost me about $15,000 to upgrade the electrical service and get a second sub panel put in for this machine. Until then I can't even turn it on.

Next comes building up a tooling package for it. Thankfully I all ready have lots of insert tooling with a good stock of proper insert grades. But. The turning center takes 1" square shank insert holders or 1.25" rounds for ID tooling - so lots of new holders and hardened and ground tooling bushings.

Yeah - so far the machine was the cheap part.

Now lets talk about fluids. I will need a few 5 gal buckets of Rustlick WS-5050 soluble cutting oil, a 5 gal a month of Mobil Vactra #2 way oil, and Mobil DTE light for the hydraulics, then other oil for the spindle gearbox.

As someone running manual machines you need more variety but less in quantity. You will want different cutting oils for different materials and cutting operations like Moly- D for reaming tool steel, and Relton rapid tap for threading stainless, and maybe plain old Kerosene for tapping aluminum.

It never ends.

[GONRA]

Upon retiring in 2001 GONRA had plans to do exactly what ProfGAB101 did.
But soon found out that all the crazy stuff I had been "wondering about"
since Teen Age Years could be done on my conventional SB lathe and Clausing mill.
So never got the CNC stuff. Am REALLY ENVIOUS nevertheless.
At 79 years olde, its “too late” for New Project of this magnitude….