Heaviest possible bullets in a T/C Contender?

[MatthewVanitas]

I'm building up my Contender gettup, and have a .22 Hornet barrel and 6.5 TCU barrel I intend to try with both jacketed and cast boolits. I'm going to get a 5mm RMR/Craig barrel for shooting little zippy bits, but I also want to add a barrel (whether pistol or carbine) that throws really heavy boolits, even if at low speeds. Just to have a thumpy little mortar barrel.

What's the plausible Contender barrel with the heaviest possible bullet weights? I know SSK has offered the 50-70 at times, with some folks loading 650gr 50 BMG jacketed bullets in it. Though I've also heard that 50-70 is really stretching the Contender's limits (some makers stopped offering it, now Encore-only?), not necessarily just in pressure but in terms of how thin the barrel walls get, like so thin you can't even mount a scope on it (not that I intend to, but it seems a red-flag). The .475 Linebaugh is also technically beyond Contender capabilities, needs an Encore for that, but when I asked JD Jones he said that they can do .480 Ruger Contender barrels if the buyer agrees they're not going to try to hot-rod it.

45-70 loads top out around 500gr, 444 Marlin at 450, .480 Ruger maybe 400? Or is that just the conventional stuff and heavier can be found? What with the BPCR bullets out there these days, are there any surprisingly heavy and long bullets in the smaller bores, like any .41 or .40 bullets that are heavy for diameter? I had some thought that I could get a .414 Supermag or a similarly-sized BP-era cartridge, leaving me more meat around the chamber and bore, and then just use long bullets at moderate speeds. Thoughts?

[Tatume]

The SSK 50-70 is an interesting gun. If 650 - 750 grains isn't enough for you, then I don't know what to suggest.

On the other hand, I have 25, 720 grain cast bullets intended for the 458 Win Mag that would work just fine in a 45-70 barrel, if the barrel has sufficient throat to accept them. At one time I was asked to test these bullets, and 25 of them was all I could stand to shoot. I saved the other 25. Unless your barrel has very fast twist, they will probably tumble or keyhole at any speed for which you can tolerate the recoil. I don't recommend building a barrel for them though, because I don't know where you would find more.

You might want to explore your recoil tolerance before spending too much money on a barrel.

Take care, Tom

[Hickory]

Young guys like to be macho, I used to be macho.
Then one morning I woke up with my elbow hurting, and months later I realised my back & shoulder were giving me fits. Then my wrists and injured knees. Then came the operations to fix what was wrong with me and instructions from the doc not to do certain things. It was then I figured out that maybe, just maybe I really wasn't macho, and I only thought I was.

[country gent]

Really in a contender pistol the 45-70 with 500-550 grn bullets is a handfull. If you want more theres the 45-90. I dont know if the 460 S&W could be done in a contender. JDJ had some real thunpers for the contender.

[johnson1942]

put a 1/16 twist .45 cal barrel on. but under the barrel put a dead mule and in the back stock put a recoil reducer. or are you talking about a hand gun? if so the recoil reducer under the barrel will help but then a 1/20 twist would bet better with a 450 to 500 grain bullet. recoil can get dangerous and hurt you. i had to tame a cva single shot hand gun with a dead mule and a skeleton shoulder stock made for it.

[Lonegun1894]

Please don't be offended by this, but do me a favor. Get (or at least consider getting) yourself a .44 Mag barrel, and play with it for a while. Considering you are 100 miles South of me, I know what our local game animals are, and you will be very well equipped for any local hunting. This caliber will allow you to test your recoil tolerance, and you can easily get molds in the 300-350gr weight range. If you decide this isn't enough weight and recoil for you, it will be easy to sell and you will get all or at least most of your money back, and can put it towards something that will be more abusive, um, uh, I mean, uh, satisfying. I'm really not saying this to be a smart alec, but the .22 Hornet and the 6.5 TCU you mention aren't anywhere close to the serious recoil range, and I bet you will find satisfaction with something a bit bigger and heavier than your current selection, but without having to go through the trouble and expense of the type of project you're considering. If nothing else, at least do this in steps so you can decide when to stop instead of going well beyond anything reasonable and then kicking yourself later.

[MatthewVanitas]

I do emphasize that I'm not a glutton for punishment, really emphasizing the "moderate speed" (or maybe even "immoderately slow). Not going for any massive big-boomer, really just interested in heavy weights at a sedate pace; not at all kidding with the mortar comparison, I'd be fine with a rainbow trajectory so long as it puts a good smack onto a fun reactive target. I'd be happier with lobbing a .44 slug that just moseys out of the barrel, rather than trying to soup it up.

I grant that a .44 mag or .41 Mag (or 414) might end up being enough heavy lead for me, worth trying out before I go too much bigger.

Maybe a clearer example is that previously I really enjoyed shooting low-pressure cowboy loads out of a 45-70 16" T/C carbine barrel I used to own. Had no desire to go plinking with Buffalo Bore rounds, but just enjoyed busting watermelons and smacking water jugs with a big marble of lead slooowly arcing off towards the hillside. A large-bore revolver round might be enough for that, but since I'm handloading anyway I thought it good to consider if the larger old rifle cases are even more fun to load up with a heavy slug and not too much powder, for chucking some fat marbles without breaking my wrists.

[Lonegun1894]

Ok, your experience with the .45-70 completely changes things. I was worried your past shooting may have been limited to .22 Hornet and 6.5 TCU, but since that is not the case, please disregard my previous post.

[leadman]

I had a 14" 44 mag barrel rechambered to 444 Marlin for awhile. The Lee 310gr. RFN GC could be pushed to over 1,900 fps and was definitely a 2 handed gun, even with the muzzle brake. I did slow it down with the 310 and about 16grs of Unique IIRC and it was ok to shoot.
Many of the large bore heavy bullet combos may stress and original Contender frame. The G2 would handle it better but the Encore would be my choice to do this with.
One issue with heavy bullets/boolits in the Contender is the gun torques badly due to the rifling twist. Can make for some sore wrists.

[MatthewVanitas]

If I'm willing to aim for like 600-900fps, does that make a huge difference? Keeping it subsonic would definitely be a goal of mine anyway; I would also be using a G2, so a little more margin of error. I'd be looking for speed in some of my smaller bore options, but honestly at the biggest bore end, I'm just looking for a fun way to throw lots of weight regardless of slowness.

Again, "something like a cowboy 45-70 load" is my overall basis of comparison. Interestingly enough, I see that the 40-65 is regularly used with bullets as heavy as 400gr, which is not too far behind the 400-500gr bullets used in the 45-70. Though for a lot of these I still need to do more reading to figure out how efficiently they can be used in a 10"/14"/16" barrel.

[Leadmelter]

I shot my Contender with a 44mag loads which were a pretty stiff load. Without a glove and Pachmayr grips I had a blister the size of a fifty cent piece that took two weeks to heel.
I did buy a 45/70 barrel and loaded up some reduced Lyman loads with Unique and 2400.
Waiting to try them outdoors.
Leadmelter
MI

[tdoyka]

here ya go!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcEvBwMKZ9s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP0CBaW9FEI

[gpidaho]

Get ready to put some serious tape on the middle finger of your shooting hand and wear a glove. My 454 Casull 15" Encore is plenty for me and will bloody my finger on the trigger guard. About the only time it gets shot is when I'm testing hot 45 Colt for my Blackhawk. Gp

[Lonegun1894]

Get ready to put some serious tape on the middle finger of your shooting hand and wear a glove. My 454 Casull 15" Encore is plenty for me and will bloody my finger on the trigger guard. About the only time it gets shot is when I'm testing hot 45 Colt for my Blackhawk. Gp

May I ask why you would test hot loads for one gun in another? I hope it isn't to check to make sure they are safe.

[Doc Highwall]

At my club we have had several people with 45/70 Contenders look for buyers after shooting them in a very short time, real bad on the wrists and elbows. My big thumper in a Contender is the 375 Winchester, and with the 10" barrel and muzzle break it is very loud with full power loads, not too much fun. Now that all the full power loads have been shot I am going to load it with Unique and a 255 fat base bullet at more moderate speeds.

[quilbilly]

There is a book of Elmer Keith's letters to friends. In one of the handwritten letters Elmer noted that one of the most unpleasant handguns (for recoil) he ever shot was a Contender in 45/70 with those heavy bullets. Elmer was not known for being recoil sensitive.

[Tatume]

Personally, I have never found that a muzzle brake does much to reduce actual recoil. The brake does break the eardrums, but only redirects recoil.

[gpidaho]

Lonegun 1894: Sure, you can ask. In a way that is exactly what I'm doing. Maybe not to the extent you may suspect but I do use the Casull to test loads. As you know the 45 Colt is to the 454 Casull what the 38spl is to the 357 mag so if I have a boolit not mentioned in published data, yet close in shape and weight to one that is or a powder that is close on the burn chart to a mentioned powder in the book I will run them first in the Casull to see how they perform. This isn't some wild hop it up until "sum'n" breaks BS and a chronograph and micrometer are involved in these tests also. I'm in no way recommending this to you or anyone else here on this board, just the way I test for my own loads. Gp

[Lonegun1894]

Sorry, I was kinda curious. Thank you for explaining. I was kind of thinking you may be doing this several ways. I mean, you could have been using the lack of barrel-cylinder gap as a way to test without the added safety of the "pressure valve", which would show pressure signs before it would in the revolver--at least in theory. Could have been doing exactly what you're doing and watching the measurements. Or could have just decided to use anything that the Encore doesn't blow up with in the BH, in which case, well, I'd be praying for you--and staying at a distance. Have a friend that dumps powder into a 7mm STW case "til it looks right", then seats a bullet, and as his final safety inspection, he shakes it next to his ear to make sure his ammo "sounds right", but never measures or weighs anything. I don't go shoot or hunt with him anymore, and limit contact to the occasional text, cause he just won't listen. You have no idea how much of a relief it is to know you do this safely. :)

[gpidaho]

Lonegun1894: LOL, I wouldn't stand next to your friend with the STW either. I have seen guys at the range do that with a powder they know is slow enough so it can't be overloaded (Too much just won't fit) Pulling their friends leg. But your right, some show no caution or sense and it will catch up with them soon enough. Thanks for your comment. Gp

[Old Coot]

Personally I agree with gpidaho and Hickory. I use to be not so much Macho as just foolish and now I am paying for it. Although, I still like the heavy SLOW bullets. Heavy and slow is not a bad combination and can be a lot of fun. A friend of mine had a buffalo gun in 45/70 and I don't think that he ever loaded it to over a 1000 fps (405gr.) it was a lot of fun to shoot and at 500 to 600 yds you could see the bullet arc out to the target. If that is the type of performance you are looking for Mathew I say more power to you. If you want to hot rod a pistol just to see what you can take::::::: Good Luck, and I can give you the number of a couple of good orthopedic surgeons. Brodie

[jmorris]

On the other hand, I have 25, 720 grain cast bullets intended for the 458 Win Mag that would work just fine in a 45-70 barrel,

Where did you get them?

[Greg Mercurio]

Find a .375 JDJ barrel. They're not hard to find, as a lot of people don't really like the Newtonian First Law thingy. :-)

Lots of fun with TrailBoss powder, up to full, fire-breathing, wrist-beating, hand-stinging thumper loads.