Why People Give Up On Casting

[ArrowJ]

Outside of lead accidents, I may have a runner in the race for worst beginning to casting ever.

I got my Lee 20 lb bottom pour in the mail today. It says to keep it around 7 and aim for 650 degrees, but I disregarded that having advice from CB to go a little higher for my Lee mold. Of course setting it at 7 gave me well over 800°, and I did not get it to settle at 750° until I put it on 4.

I spent an hour or so trying to get the hang of it with a net of zero bullets. At that point I moved to another location and moved the guide plate out of the way. Wrinkled bullets, round edges, unfilled cavities, sticky mold, irritations with the Lee pot, basically everything that can go wrong except frosted bullets.

Long story short, after 3 ½ hours I had 40 bullets I decided to keep out of charity. These had an average weight of around 127 gr vs the 124 suggested by the mold. I was ok with that. The size ran from .355.5-358.5 which was not so good.

On to the powder coat. Shake and bake following everything I have read on here using Smokes powder. Not great coverage, but this was my fault not the powder. Getting them out without removing the powder was, well, I was not successful. As they were cooking I decided some guys are not that picky so I will not worry about it this time, and deal with any leading I might get. Remove them from the oven, and they are stuck/melted to my silicone baking sheet (I read on here someone had used one). I scrape the silicone off the bottom thinking I will salvage them, but traces remain.

Take them in and start measuring them. The sizes now range .356-.362 Of course I do not have a sizer die, nor would I know what size to buy as I have nothing to slug my barrel with. I was going to just shoot them and only adjust if I had to, but 361/.362 seems like it is pushing it. Maybe I can find one of my rejects big enough to slug my barrel with.

Six hours from start until I am writing this and basically zero shootable bullets. This gentleman, is why casting equipment ends up in basements and at yard sales.

I have no option but to make this work as the money I could have spent on cheap plated bullets is tied up in equipment and lead.

This is going to be fun I told her. I will save money I told her. It will lower my blood pressure I told her.

Tomorrow I will regroup and start again.

[454PB]

Take a deep breath........................

There, now don't you feel better?

It takes time and patience to learn this stuff, and you're trying to combine several processes at once. Try one at a time, starting with producing a good boolit, then move on to sizing and lubricating (or PC'ing).

Are you loading for 9mm?

[bangerjim]

Hey man.......it's your 1st time!!!!!!!!! Get over it. Most of us have been doing this stuff for decades. We all had to learn sometime.

1st. Buy youself a hotplate and heat those mold HOT HOT! To FULL casting temp B4 ever casting a single one. By doing that, I get perfect drops from #1. Yes....it REALLY DOES works!

PC takes a lot of practice. I mean A LOT!!!!!!! It took me months of messing around with BBDT to get it to where I was satisified (ESPC quality is the standard for me). Do NOT expect it to magically work the 1st time! Especailly with BBDT. Just too many variables in that black magic voo-doo process.

I guess that is the problem today with internet technology everywhere........everybody wants everything RIGHT NOW!

Practice, my friend, practice. Get good drops before EVER moving on to PC'ing!!!!!!! You gotta learn to walk B4 you run! Time and practice are your friends.

bangerjim

[DerekP Houston]

Well, to be honest my first try was very similiar :D. As far as the wrinkled bullets/not filling....bangerjim mentioned the hotplate already ;). PC, to me, sounds like too much powder? I use a silicon mat cut to fit on my tray, the boolits kinda snap off if there is too much powder coat. I would grab a lee sizing die and maybe just practice casting until you get those looking good? The alox lasts friggin forever its just a little smoky (in my opinion), you can just use that instead of messing with PC and its a lot faster to start. I've found it takes new molds around 2-3 casting sessions to finally "break in" and start being reliable. Keep at it you've already got all the supplies.

I think you picked one of the harder calibers to start with ;).

[Garyshome]

First things first take one of those Fat slugs and slug the barrel [if it's not fat enough smack it with a hammer a couple of times]. Then order the proper sizing die. Next include in your order a lead thermometer [if you don't already have one] then when you get it Use it. Next keep some sprue handy to cool down the pot when it gets too hot. I drop my booltiz into a 5 gal bucket and then inspect them quickly to see what needs to be done heat wise with the lead [if the boolitz aren't any good they go into separate holding container to dry out then back into the pot]. Make sure you smoke the mold and heat it up before you start casting. I don't mess with PC'ing pistol boolitz, just lub em & shoot em.

[tazman]

Sounds like a few problems all right. Nothing that can't be cured though.
For slugging the barrel, get a few soft fishing sinkers and melt them into a spent casing(use a small torch). Use an inertial bullet puller to get the slug out. It will be just slightly larger than the groove diameter of your barrel, hence easier to drive through. Lube it with any sort of oil or grease and drive it through your barrel(brass rod preferably). Use a micrometer to get the size from the slug.
For the issues you had with the mold. It sounds to me as if the mold never really got hot enough. You need a hot plate or some other method of heating your mold up to temperature before you start. If the mold is cold, it is hard to get a casting pace going that will be fast enough to heat the mold enough to get it hot and keep it hot. The only easy way to get the mold hot enough without a hot plate is to set the mold on top of the lead pot while the lead gets up to heat.
Set the temperature control on your Lee pot to maximum. Start casting at that temperature until the boolits start dropping unwrinkled and a little frosty, then turn the temperature down to where you want it and continue casting. You can always segregate the early one and recast them later.
This is the way I do most of mine. I have been using this method for years. The first few through the mold will be a bit iffy. After the boolits start to drop cleanly, the rest will be pretty consistent.

[Bullwolf]

Everyone of my stable of 9mm auto pistols and carbines run with a .358 diameter cast lead boolit.

If I had a newer auto pistol with a very tight chamber that would only work with a .357 sized 9mm boolit, I would ream it to accept a .358 like of all my other pistols.

Here's an inexpensive sizing setup, using the $20 Lee "Lube and Sizing Kit".

http://www.titanreloading.com/image/cache/data/Products/90048-600x600.jpg

http://www.titanreloading.com/image/data/D2g/sizelube.jpg

And a link to a .358 Lee push through sizer die that uses Standard 7/8 x 14 threads that fit most any (modern) reloading press.
http://www.titanreloading.com/lube-sizing-kit/358-lee-bullet-lubricating-sizing-kit

There's a pretty steep learning curve with all of this stuff, and you jumped in feet first. Keep at it and you will learn by doing. Having a casting mentor close by to assist you will greatly reduce the learning curve.


- Bullwolf

[jcren]

I suspect your thermometer may be off. Preheat the mold smoking hot and set your dial on 5 or 6 after the lead is melted and cleaned and start pouring. DON'T check your bullets! Just keep pouring and watching for the sprue to frost, cut, dump repeat. If the sprue frost in less than 5 or 6 seconds, turn your heat up half a notch and/or speed your cut/dump/refill pace. Allow 5-10 cast before you decide if you need more changes. Don't check your bullets! If the sprue takes more than 8-10 seconds to frost, you are too hot. Turn your temp down a half notch and/or slow down the cut/drop/refill sequence. Allow several cast to judge the results. Once the pot is nearly empty, put the mold aside and now check your work. As you cast it helps to spread the drop piles over a large towel surface to track your progress. Grab a beer and start sorting. Repeat. Try not to get frusterated and please ask questions as needed. DONT check bullets while casting! You will loose too much mold heat and never get past wrinkles and poor fill. By the time you can check your work As you go, you will know it.

[leeggen]

Just a tip, when you slug that barrel DO NOT USE A WOODEN DOWEL to force the slug thru. It can and will break, most times it will jam and you thinkt you are flusterd now. Your doing fine, you learned sveral things in the first try. Second try will move on to more learning and some screwups. Again your doing fine, keep asking questions and getting answers.
Good luck,
CD

[PS Paul]

You're just breaking in your mold, that's all. Next time you WILL do better.
I'd drop the powder coating nonsense for a bit and just focus on making good boolits. Tumble-lubing works and is easy, inexpensive and hassle-free. Shooting "as cast" might just work for you without having to size OR powder coat.....
Keep us posted with your next results.

[Mk42gunner]

This is going to be fun I told her. It will be, have patience. I will save money I told her. You won't. It will lower my blood pressure I told her.Once everything comes together, casting can be very relaxing.

The weight variation from nominal is pretty normal. I don't think I have ever had a mold that casts exactly to the specified weight, even when casting pure lead round balls.

If you are getting 750 degrees with your dial set at 4, I would start with it set just a little below 4 and see how things act. I haven't stuck my thermometer into the pot in a few years; once I get it casting well with a given alloy, I don't mess with the dial (usually).

Stick with it, experienced casters don't learn everything by reading, they have to cast boolits. Part of learning is making mistakes and then correcting them. Look at it this way: You wouldn't expect a first grader learning how to add and subtract to be able to do college algebra, would you? It takes a bit of time.

Robert

[Iowa Fox]

I got lucky many moons ago about 46 as I think about it. Melted the wheel weights on a coal forge with coal I picked up along the Union Pacific tracks north of the farm. The coal cars hauled bigger chunks than today and it was always shaking out of the cars as they barreled down the rough tracks. There was no internet and books in rural Iowa were hard to come by. The mold dropped nice bullets, the 357 shoot great groups, and not a spec of leading. Boy was I hooked. Different guns and different molds and oh boy here came every problem you can encounter as a caster. That first lucky attempt proved to me how great cast can be and I've stuck with it ever since. Then I started to meet other more experienced casters like the old Schuetzen shooters from Davenport.

Don't give up!! I've had the results you describe with a new mold after I had been at it for years. More reading here and your problems will go away.

[lead4me]

Just SLOW down, make sure you have the basics covered. Hot mold...did I mention start with a hot mold. Dip your mold (a corner) in your lead until when you pull it out the lead does not stick to it. Then just pour yourself some nice boolits, if they don't fill out real nice add a little tin. Make a large pile of nice boolits then move to the next step in whatever process you like. right now I just pan lube and size load an shoot working my way to PCing most of my shooting is 45acp an 44mag so my path is pretty easy. Main thing is have fun..

[ArrowJ]

Take a deep breath...

There, now don't you feel better?

...[start] with producing a good boolit, then move on to sizing and lubricating (or PC'ing).

Are you loading for 9mm?

I took several! Five hours of nightmares not related to casting, some coffee, and waking up to a bunch of encouragement and advice helped.

A few of you mentioned skipping PC for now. I had that thought last night. I really did not rush things, and was not overly concerned with getting perfect coverage, but the added headaches might push me over the edge. I hate the idea of dirty sticky looking bullets, but I think Alox might be the answer for now.

I am loading and casting 9mm. I understand from the board (mentioned again below) that it can be tricky, but it was more of a necessity than anything. I bought a Springfield Armory XD Mod 2 sub compact for eventual concealed carry. It is the only gun I currently own. I almost bought a 357 Sig! I bet that would have been fun.

[ArrowJ]

Buy youself a hotplate and heat those mold HOT HOT! To FULL casting temp B4 ever casting a single one. By doing that, I get perfect drops from #1. Yes....it REALLY DOES works!

I guess that is the problem today with internet technology everywhere........everybody wants everything RIGHT NOW!

Time and practice are your friends.


I do have a hotplate, but despite the manufacturer saying the contrary, it cycles on and off and never gets that hot. I have a grand total of $55 left in my budget and a $25 Scheels gift card. If I run into an old hotplate at the Goodwill I will most certainly pick it up for $5. As mentioned below I did set the mold across the top and dip the corner in though. I will be keeping my eyes open for one as you suggest.

I do not feel like I am rushing as I have been actively planning this for a year, and collecting what I could over the course of the last several years while lurking around here. You are correct though. Those YouTube videos make it look soooo easy.

One problem I have is that I have read so much that I have all these warnings going off in my mind, and contradictory opinions etc. As an example, I worry that I am losing tin because my melt is too hot, and because it is taking me so long to get my temp to settle. I leave wood chip ash on the top, but then have to move it to dip my mold. It feels like I have read too much, but I refuse to carpet that that is possible :) Time and practice are the solution as you say.

[ArrowJ]

Well, to be honest my first try was very similiar :D.

I would grab a lee sizing die and maybe just practice casting until you get those looking good?

I think you picked one of the harder calibers to start with ;).

Thanks! I think this is the way to go. At least it should be a breeze when I finally get to cast for something else.

[ArrowJ]

First things first take one of those Fat slugs and slug the barrel...Then order the proper sizing die.

Next include in your order a lead thermometer then when you get it Use it.

Next keep some sprue handy to cool down the pot when it gets too hot.

Make sure you smoke the mold and heat it up before you start casting.

Proper size being .358 for a .356 barrel and so forth? I did use the thermometer (RCBS) the entire time. I ended up casting the 40 that I kept (which will be going back in the pot next time) at 750°. I also smoked the mold, but I would say my fiddling kept my mold going up and down in temp.

[ArrowJ]

Lube it with any sort of oil or grease and drive it through your barrel (brass rod preferably).

The only easy way to get the mold hot enough without a hot plate is to set the mold on top of the lead pot while the lead gets up to heat.

Set the temperature control on your Lee pot to maximum. Start casting at that temperature...

I was going to use a wooden dowel which obviously is the wrong thing to do (thanks leeggen!!). I have an old shotgun cleaning rod. Will that work?

Will I not lose tin if I run that hot for very long?

[ArrowJ]

Here's an inexpensive sizing setup, using the $20 Lee "Lube and Sizing Kit".

There's a pretty steep learning curve with all of this stuff, and you jumped in feet first. Keep at it and you will learn by doing. Having a casting mentor close by to assist you will greatly reduce the learning curve.


If I slug my barrel and need to size that is definitely the way I plan to go. A mentor yes. I guess CB will have to serve as my quasi mentor.

[ArrowJ]

I suspect your thermometer may be off.

DON'T check your bullets!

As you cast it helps to spread the drop piles over a large towel surface to track your progress. Grab a beer and start sorting. Repeat.

I was wondering about my thermometer as well. How does one check it? Boiling water? Can it be calibrated (RCBS)?

I like the towel idea a lot. Mine were in a pile.

I take it you think I should not be checking my bullets as I go? :) Message received and will comply.

[ArrowJ]

Next time you WILL do better.

I'd drop the powder coating nonsense for a bit and just focus on making good boolits.

Next time, or the time after that :) Thanks!

I agree, the PC needs to go...unless I start dropping great bullets then...no, it needs to go for now.

[ArrowJ]

The weight variation from nominal is pretty normal. I don't think I have ever had a mold that casts exactly to the specified weight, even when casting pure lead round balls.

You wouldn't expect a first grader learning how to add and subtract to be able to do college algebra, would you? It takes a bit of time.


As the weights were fairly consistent I was not overly concerned, but what does that do for my load data? If my bullets end up dropping 3 gr heavier do I drop my starting load by 10%?

A 40 year old first grader...that about sums it up :)

[ubetcha]

go to your nearest hardware store and get a brass rod that fits your bbl. I used a wooden dowel TWICE. We won't talk about about that right now.[smilie=b:

[ArrowJ]

Just SLOW down, make sure you have the basics covered.

If they don't fill out real nice add a little tin.

Main thing is have fun..

I gotta say, I could not have been moving much slower ;) I know what you mean.

My calculations put my tin at almost 2%, but my calculations have been known to be miscalculations.

The smelting was fun. The casting will get there. I love reloading. I shoot to load as much or more than I load to shoot. I load 9mm and do it all single stage. Love it.

[ArrowJ]

A general thank you to everybody. I appreciate the advice and encouragement!

[toallmy]

Hot clean mold and lead = nice smooth bullet . You really need the lee sizing kit you can probably just order it in .358 and use the lube with it . But if you are a little OCD you can go .357 just to be safe and in the future polish it out to .358 if you need to . Don't even consider quitting my goodness just getting started was the hardest part for me .

[35remington]

I did not see it mentioned, but did you thoroughly degrease the mould before starting?

Heat the mould on the kitchen stove before proceeding using medium heat if your hotplate does not work.

Perhaps the title of the thread should have been, "Why I give up on Casting." LOL.

If "people" wanted to give up on casting there would be no one here to give you advice!!

[jcren]

I noticed you are using sawdust and a ladle. Try cleaning off the sawdust or using parifin or bees wad when you cast so you aren't fumbling with trying to keep the sawdust out of the ladle. Btw these will flash and burn if your melt is hot enough, so don't be surprised. And yes, boiling water is the standard for checking thermometers at home.

[DerekP Houston]

I gotta say, I could not have been moving much slower ;) I know what you mean.

My calculations put my tin at almost 2%, but my calculations have been known to be miscalculations.

The smelting was fun. The casting will get there. I love reloading. I shoot to load as much or more than I load to shoot. I load 9mm and do it all single stage. Love it.

ehehe, its as much art as science. I believe "slowing down" was in reference to trying to get everything (casting, coating, sizing, loading) figured out in one day. Reloading with plated bullets still took me a few rounds with the turret press to figure out all the die settings and etc. With the casting I actually cast as fast as possible, I dump the first 5-6 pours in the sprue pile, and then just keep everything til the end. I use brass molds so I have to keep em quite hot.

Are you ladle pouring or is the lee a bottom pour?

[frkelly74]

I have never heard of anyone getting it right on the first try. When you are casting, cast. When you are inspecting , inspect. getting into a tempo that you can maintain will produce the most uniform boolits. I always suggest that people make dummy rounds with their boolits and try them in their guns to see if they will chamber easily. It can happen that a boolit can be used as cast without sizing. I am loading for 9mm right now and have been using the Lee 358 125 round nose flat point boolit as cast tumblelubed. My point is that it can be simple and you might be happy trying simple things first. Of course your experience will vary from anyone elses.

[tazman]

I was going to use a wooden dowel which obviously is the wrong thing to do (thanks leeggen!!). I have an old shotgun cleaning rod. Will that work?

Will I not lose tin if I run that hot for very long?

I use a 1/4 in brass rod for driving slugs through my barrels. Easily obtained from most hardware stores. Cut to an appropriate length.
You won't lose a significant amount of tin because you won't need to stay at full temp very long. At the max temp setting, the mold should heat up very quickly(5-6 fillings max) if it has been pre-heated.
When you turn down the temp control on the lead pot, the melt temperature will drop pretty quickly. Usually you can hear the heating element kick in when it turns on. That is how you know the temp has reached the new level. Don't stop casting during this time.
There shouldn't be a large enough variance in either dimensions or weight during a run to matter to most 9mm pistols as far as accuracy or function.

[Pine Baron]

Arrow,
You can check your thermometer with boiling water. Is there a slotted screw head on the bottom? that would be the calibration adjustment. I also use my thermometer to keep the toaster oven honest when PC'ing.

[LenH]

Don't short change your new hot plate. My wife got me one from Wally World that has a solid top, it does a bunch of cycling but it will get a mold hotter than it needs to be.
I read on this site about preheating ingots. I was casting with a H & G 8 cavity mold that drains a pot in short order. I had the hot plate turned to medium and was casting
boolits like a maniac and finally got to where I needed to add ingots and they had melted and ran all over my casting bench. Needless to say lesson learned and I put
ingots around the rim of the pot.

[OS OK]

I'm not going to 'you should you' here, I'm going to tell you a couple of facts…that's all.
*For example…if you want your lead, in pot, to be at 725 Degrees…watch the thermometer and when it gets to 700 degrees…turn the pot down 2 increments.
The temp. will continue to rise after turning the temp. down…it will hold at the peak for a little while…2 minutes say…then it will swing the other way and slowly start its decline. As it passes the 'desired temp' of 725 turn the pot up 1 increment. This sounds like you think it will take too much concentration but it becomes second nature. You only need glance at the thermometer to do this, heat in the pot does not respond immediately…thats just physics, thats just how things work. After you have observed this phenomena through a casting session you will get a feel of the 'delayed action' and just how many increments on the pot dial to use, this too will become second nature. I never caught that warning about not setting the pot over 7 but as I have learned through 'trial and error', that is good advice. The wider the pot adjustment…the wilder the temp. swings.
You will see that it only takes a few minor adjustments on a full pot to keep those wild temp. swings under control but at first this needs attention too.
As the pot empties you will need to turn the pot down as you go because the decreasing volume of lead is responding to the heater element more quickly. It depends on the amount of lead that you are using and how fast the pot is emptying (say, 9mm, 2 gang mold VS a .45, 6 gang).
Just make adjustments ahead of the desired temp. and you will be restricting the wild swings…and believe me that pot can get up to 900 degrees fast once it hits 775-800. Like the other fella said…"keep sprue cuts ready to drop in" if she gets out of control and they will absorb that extra heat much quicker than waiting for it to cool down.
They say a 'watched pot never boils'…well that ain't nothing…it seems like a 'hot pot never cools' sometimes…when you are expecting results fast, time seems to drag on forever.
Don't worry about loosing your tin, as you learn this manual temp. control method you won't be 'heat separating' the blend. Whatever dross you pull off the pot can be put in a small dross can and reclaimed on the next 'smelt' giving a richer tin content to that batch.

I'm long winded…hope I didn't loose you…OS OK

PS…don't think about quitting! If the rest of us 'monkeys' can do it…so can you!

[dudel]

If we had all quit after our first session, this forum would be pretty empty.

But it's not, and we didn't; so you should keep at it if you want your own supply of Boolits.

Now it's possible that casting isn't for everyone. It's possible casting isn't for you. You should be able to sell you gear for a slight loss; and stock up on plated bullets. No shame in that. You're still reloading and shooting for less than factory ammo, and you don't have to deal with leading issues. Not a bad outcome either way.

[dudel]

I was going to use a wooden dowel which obviously is the wrong thing to do (thanks leeggen!!). I have an old shotgun cleaning rod. Will that work?

Will I not lose tin if I run that hot for very long?

Wooden dowel works fine as long as the fit in the barrel is good. If you put a brass case over the end in contact with the sinker, you minimize the chance of splintering. The closer in size the slug is to the barrel the easier it will go through. Taps work well. Go slow, use lots of lube.

[Tar Heel]

Attempting to compress 30 years of casting experience into a single first session is a tall order. If you do not have the patience to learn the art and skill, sell your gear and purchase ready-made bullets. If on the other hand you want to make excellent cast bullets, continue onward and learn from each and every casting session.

[ArrowJ]

ehehe, its as much art as science. I believe "slowing down" was in reference to trying to get everything (casting, coating, sizing, loading) figured out in one day. Reloading with plated bullets still took me a few rounds with the turret press to figure out all the die settings and etc. With the casting I actually cast as fast as possible, I dump the first 5-6 pours in the sprue pile, and then just keep everything til the end. I use brass molds so I have to keep em quite hot.

Are you ladle pouring or is the lee a bottom pour?

I am using a turkey fryer and large ladle for smelting and a Lee 20 lb bottom pour for casting. I did read one gentleman ended up plugging the hole and using it for ladle casting, but I am thinking the method is not the problem :) Also, he is casting very large bullets.

[ArrowJ]

I have never heard of anyone getting it right on the first try...getting into a tempo that you can maintain will produce the most uniform boolits...It can happen that a boolit can be used as cast without sizing.

I think tempo is the biggest problem I had. I was too worried about everything and did not stay consistent. I am going to slug my barrel and I would not be surprised if I do not need to size them, but once I do get around to powder costing it may change that.

[ArrowJ]

Arrow,
You can check your thermometer with boiling water. Is there a slotted screw head on the bottom? that would be the calibration adjustment. I also use my thermometer to keep the toaster oven honest when PC'ing.

I will pick up a cheap pot at the thrift store and do just that. It is an RCBS thermometer, and I see no obvious way of adjusting it. I will check the interweb. Worst case I will have to remember the adjustment and add or subtract on the fly.

[OS OK]

I will pick up a cheap pot at the thrift store and do just that. It is an RCBS thermometer, and I see no obvious way of adjusting it. I will check the interweb. Worst case I will have to remember the adjustment and add or subtract on the fly.

My thermometer is an old Dillon without such a screw on the back side. I was able to hold the probe and twist the 'dial' case slightly to calibrate it. The probe is 'crimped' into the backside on mine.

OS OK

[fecmech]

Casting can be very simple. First make sure the mold is cleaned. Set the blocks across the top of your pot(if it's a 2 cav open the spru plate to catch the other side) and make a tent over it with aluminum foil. Turn the pot to max. Now get a cup of coffee,read the paper,surf the web for the next 25-30 minutes. Return to the pot and start casting. You will get good bullets immediately. After a few pours it will start taking longer for the spru to cool and bullets will start to frost excessively. Then you can start to turn the pot down in small increments till you reach a steady state. If you are casting small 9mm bullets (120-130 gr) you will be running close to max temp on the pot all the time. It's not rocket science, good luck.

[ArrowJ]

They say a 'watched pot never boils'…well that ain't nothing…it seems like a 'hot pot never cools' sometimes…when you are expecting results fast, time seems to drag on forever.

Don't worry about loosing your tin...

I'm long winded…hope I didn't loose you…OS OK

PS…don't think about quitting! If the rest of us 'monkeys' can do it…so can you!

Fantastic. Thanks!

[murf205]

ArrowJ, you are going to get it right, brother. Don't be discouraged, this is too much fun to give up on. I started casting 45 yrs ago with nobody to help and you shoulda' seen some of the junk I made. Ringling Brothers could have made a side show out of my casting methods!

[ArrowJ]

I did not see it mentioned, but did you thoroughly degrease the mould before starting?

Heat the mould on the kitchen stove before proceeding using medium heat if your hotplate does not work.

Perhaps the title of the thread should have been, "Why I give up on Casting." LOL.

If "people" wanted to give up on casting there would be no one here to give you advice!!

I used alcohol and a toothbrush after I read that advice on here, but I think I will give it a shot of brake cleaner.

I am not giving up unless I am still sucking it up twenty tries later :) I figure for every guy on Cast Boolits there are several having yard sales!

[ArrowJ]

ArrowJ, you are going to get it right, brother. Don't be discouraged, this is too much fun to give up on. I started casting 45 yrs ago with nobody to help and you shoulda' seen some of the junk I made. Ringling Brothers could have made a side show out of my casting methods!

This made me laugh! Good stuff. Thanks!

[Kraschenbirn]

If you decide you need a little 'hands on' assistance, I'm only a couple hours east of Lincoln. Don't get over that way much since I retired but if you're ever in the Champaign area drop me a PM and I'll be happy to run you through my set-up.

Bill

[OS OK]

Each time you have a 'casting session' you bring with you 'gained knowledge' from the last time…Each time, you will seat yourself before that pot with with 'added confidence'…all those swirling thoughts and questions will be fewer until one day very soon...you will sit there and complain about having 6 boolits that didn't pass inspection after pouring 20 pounds of lead!
At this point you will be advising some 'newbie caster' with…"Hey, I did that once too…"

Save a couple of your worst failures so that you may reminisce and smile at 'how far you've come'!

OS OK

[dverna]

I disagree with fecmech....DO NOT leave a Lee bottom pour pot unattended. You may come back to a heck of a mess.

You have a Lee mold so you need to realize that aluminum does not hold heat well. That means you must have a steady cadence to your casting. Once the sprue glazes over, cut it off, dump the bullets and refill. Do not take much time to admire your work - a quick glance will tell you if the bullets are too hot or too cold. Faster is better than slower in this operation.

If you do not get good bullets after 15 minutes you are doing something wrong. STOP and figure it out. Thinking is better than doing if you are not doing things correctly. Doing is how you learn and fine tune when things are going well

[popper]

Do NOT touch a hot mould with a toothbrush! Clean Alum. moulds with non-clorinated brake cleaner - just a couple squirts will do it. Use 2 cycle (A/C is better) oil on the sprue plate with Qtip, wipe off with paper towel when the mould is hot. If you don't have a hot plate, you can dip it in the melt or just pour with the sprue plate open. Then close the plate and dip the 'lever' into the melt to heat the plate - make sure it is hot - or you will hammer the plate open! Practice pouring till you get it right - won't take long. Save some bad ones to practice PC then recycle in the smelting pot, not the Lee. Try Ben's Liquid lube - better than LLA - Johnsons floor wax and alox. Check the lube section here.
Simple 'steps' to good casting.
1) clean alloy ONLY in the casting pot. Don't use sawdust in a bottom pour pot. Your alloy doesn't require tin.
2) hot lubed mould and sprue pate.
3) Good steady fill, no dribbling. Don't need a huge sprue puddle.
4) Learn WHEN to cut the sprue. Time it, wait for 'color' change - whatever. Be consistent. Start early and wait a little longer till you figure it out.
5) Don't bang on the mould. Set it on it's side on the bench and whack the sprue lever when you must.

[reddog81]

sounds like your off to a good start... Remember you learn from your mistakes.
A thermometer can be helpful but honestly I only used mine once. At this point I adjust the temperature of the pot based upon how long it takes for the sprue to cool and what the bullets look like. I couldn’t care less what a thermometer reads as long as the results are good…
You can get by without sizing but having bullets that vary even a couple of .001’s isn’t going to be good if you are expecting any kind of decent accuracy.
Powder coating is a great cheap option for coating bullets. I had terrible leading using Lee Liquid Alox. Unless you are going to spend a bunch of money on a lubesizer I’m not sure what other options there are.
I’m a couple hours west of you in central Iowa, but if you traveling through on I80 in the near future I would be willing to show you my setup and what works for me.

[ccjcc81]

I had the same problem the first time I cast, and felt the same frustration. I'm glad I didn't give up on it. It's a very rewarding hobby once everything falls into place. I bought a hotplate for $10 at Walmart, and that solved the problem instantly. I bought a Lee push through resizing die that was supposed to resize to .357, but actually resizes to .356, and I resize after powder coating. After resizing, my reloads are really accurate. Good luck, hang in there.

[RogerDat]

I think tempo is the biggest problem I had. I was too worried about everything and did not stay consistent. I am going to slug my barrel and I would not be surprised if I do not need to size them, but once I do get around to powder costing it may change that.

Tempo really matters because tempo is what aligns the melt temp, with the mold temp, with the sprue cutting without smearing or being too hard. The hotter/colder the lead along with the bigger/smaller the bullet determines the timing required to have the lead keep the mold up to a good casting temp. Small caliber makes that much harder, fewer cavities also mean less heat getting poured in.

I count, as in pour 123456, cut & wait 123, dump. Repeat. I'm doing what others suggested watching the puddle as I count to determine the right count to cut at. Once I have the count that is "right" I still watch but it allows me to see the mold is getting hotter or colder because the sprue puddle is not shifting color to dull gray solid at the same place in my count.

You want wax to help keep tin in the melt. Wax reduces the tin back into the melt. Shaving size of a pea is plenty. Any candle or paraffin wax will work. Bees wax smells nice and has less tendency to burst into flame (yes wax will go woosh if it gets hot enough) Ash or sawdust on the top can help exclude air and prevent oxidation from a bottom pour pot. Some do that, many don't. I would not do that myself but can't rag on the folks that do. Some swear by it and besides I ladle cast :-)

I would start a bit hotter than you think you need to be, go as fast as the puddle will harden, then back off from there when the puddle takes too long to harden. Or the bullets look great except for being frosty. Frosty works fine for shooting but it also tells you that you can lower temp or change tempo so that the mold has less heat going into it. Does increase the chance I will cut sprue too soon and leave a smear on the sprue plate, makes that small amount of oil there a bit more important.

One thing I do to kick the mold temp up if it seems like it is getting too cool (fast puddle harden) is just over pour the puddle, I'm using a ladle over a pot so I can let the extra run down without any problem. But with small caliber a bigger puddle delivers more heat to the mold and that can help keep the mold temp up. The puddle can be more lead than the bullet in the really small ones, that means puddle size can make a lot of difference in mold temp. Now in a 255 grain 45 bullet not so much but for a 9mm or 38 or 223 mold I find puddle size can have a lot of influence.

Those cycling hot plates will heat the mold, set it higher (above medium on mine), leave it longer. With no pot of stuff to absorb the heat the plate will tend to cycle fast. but eventually the mold will get plenty hot, too hot is possible.

I would say there have been several pictures of large piles of lead all entwined into the casting pot from bottom pours that were left unattended while they melted. I would say better to pull up a chair and have a cup of coffee where you can see the pot. I also found that a tiny amount of soap and water, with good rinse after spray brake cleaner worked well. Water left no residue at all, blow dryer or hot plate to dry, then oil the contact points with a Q-Tip to avoid getting any in cavity.

One last thing I have found that the suggestion to use my gloved hand to twist the sprue plate when cutting rather than knocking it worked well. I do get a sort of a scorched stain along the edge of the mold where my glove grips it but I end up with the sprue right in my hand for disposal and I get a feel for if I am cutting too quick or too slow based on how hard it is to cut. That feel is lacking if I tap on it with a stick.

You have the right attitude and approach in my opinion, to casting and most endevors. Research and gather information, do it, ask questions as specific issues come to light from your efforts. If you drive a car think back to when you first started, all those mirrors to check, blind spots, and speedometer and traffic signs and... overwhelming. Then it got easier as some parts became second nature, then if you are like me you got all cocky, started to make mistakes, learned from the messy shorts experiences to not be so cocky and pay attention. Now I drive anyplace I want! Casting at least for me was a lot like that. Come to think of it so was riding a bike before the car. Pretty sure if you stick with casting, and approach with a mellow "I will fail and learn from it" attitude you will master it.

[bangerjim]

I do have a hotplate, but despite the manufacturer saying the contrary, it cycles on and off and never gets that hot. I have a grand total of $55 left in my budget and a $25 Scheels gift card. If I run into an old hotplate at the Goodwill I will most certainly pick it up for $5. As mentioned below I did set the mold across the top and dip the corner in though. I will be keeping my eyes open for one as you suggest.

I do not feel like I am rushing as I have been actively planning this for a year, and collecting what I could over the course of the last several years while lurking around here. You are correct though. Those YouTube videos make it look soooo easy.

One problem I have is that I have read so much that I have all these warnings going off in my mind, and contradictory opinions etc. As an example, I worry that I am losing tin because my melt is too hot, and because it is taking me so long to get my temp to settle. I leave wood chip ash on the top, but then have to move it to dip my mold. It feels like I have read too much, but I refuse to carpet that that is possible :) Time and practice are the solution as you say.



My hotplate is a $150 electronic-variable lab hotplate and it "cycles on and off" around it's setpoint also! That is how they work. Good ones anyway. Some cheapos just turn on and get only so hot. Your problem is the plate you have is not set up to get hot enough. The t-stat is preventing it from getting into the sweet spot we need for monds. Mine can melt pure lead on the surface and still have 20% more heat to go.

You may end up wasting a lot of those $5 bills on old junker hotplates. It is best to stick to NEW locally-purchased products so, if they do not perform to your needs, you can easily take them back to the store for a refund. That is why I buy ALL my needs locally and not off the net.

Use beeswax (nothing else) to reduce your Sn back into your pot. You will not loose it that way. I NEVER use wood chips or sawdust in a casting pot! Too much mess. You do NOT need "ash on the surface" to get good boolits. I never have......I never will.

Reading too much is a very big problem with today's newbees. Back in the day.......we just did it and learned from our mistakes and successes......not from tons of carp posted on the net. The School of Hard Knocks is far better than the Internet School of BS.

Take your time......learn as you go......and have fun! And forget Youtube!

bangerjim

[bangerjim]

I used alcohol and a toothbrush after I read that advice on here, but I think I will give it a shot of brake cleaner.

I am not giving up unless I am still sucking it up twenty tries later :) I figure for every guy on Cast Boolits there are several having yard sales!

I NEVER degrease molds. Ever. But if you feel it is really necessary, do not use alcohol. Not strong enough. You were proably using iospropyl from the drug store, right? That is not a good degreasing fluid at all.

Get some acetone or laq thinner from a big box store. Rinse off the COLD mold. Clean with a toothbrush if you feel so inclined and necessary. Or squirt with brake cleaner.

I have found (as many others have also) cold molds cause wrinkles........not oil/grease.

[fecmech]

.DO NOT leave a Lee bottom pour pot unattended. You may come back to a heck of a mess.
Hardly! If you turn on a cold Lee pot and come back 30 mins later you might have a lead stalagmite, hardly a mess. The first 15 mins the lead will not even be melted. The world will not come to an end in 15 mins.
The main thing I was trying to get across was how simple it is to get good quality bullets. There is really no big secret. A hot mold and hot lead = well filled out bullets. From the OP's first post it was obvious he never got the mold hot enough to get good bullets. If you start cold and keep inspecting bullets you will never get things up to temp. If you have a clean mold and do what I suggested, your first pour will have good bullets. I do it all the time.

[OS OK]

Oh yeah…this too…for me and multi cavity…I continue the pour between cavities and try to hit the center of the hole. On rifle boolits, by ricocheting the pour off the side of the sprue plate hole, it will sometimes cool the lead just enough to give incomplete noses on long thin boolits.
If your pour spout becomes too cool to pass lead use a small 'self striking' if you have it, propane torch against it…just a few seconds is all she takes. If it constantly drips…use a screwdriver to twist the flow adjustment screw back and forth a few times and that will generally stop it. I actually put a 7/8" hex nut on the handle shaft behind the handle to add a little more weight to the valve. As the pot gets lower and lower the speed of the lead will slow coming out, just turn that screw counter clockwise a 1/2 turn or so to regain your volume as you prefer. If you leave some lead covering the bottom of the pot after casting it will heat sooner the new lead you put in rather than getting scary hot to start a new casting session.

OS OK

[tja6435]

A PID controller for the lead pot is well worth the investment. You could build your own for $60 or less pretty easily. I run a PID for my Lee 4/20, my oven I use for Hi-Tek and I am in process of building another PID for the heated base for the boolit sizers. I built the PID for the lead pot before I ever cast a boolit, and I'm sure it made things much easier

[bangerjim]

I and many thouands before me have cast probably millions of perfect boolits with non-PID pots by using a thermometer and/or good old common sense. But if you feel it helps you, more power to you. Anything to get you to where you want to be.

And I guess I am one of the unlucky ones.........I have never been blessed with a free-form lead stalagmite under either of my 4-20's in many years. They just do not leak. And....I never use sawdust in them! Mabe some correlation there?!?!?!?!

Works for me.

[DerekP Houston]

I am using a turkey fryer and large ladle for smelting and a Lee 20 lb bottom pour for casting. I did read one gentleman ended up plugging the hole and using it for ladle casting, but I am thinking the method is not the problem :) Also, he is casting very large bullets.

That's the exact same setup I use, just keep at it and you'll get the hang of it.

[Echo]

AJ, I will just describe my own process for casting. Take it for what it's worth...
I start by filling my SAECO 10-pounder with ingots and turn it wide open. I put the mold I will be using on the lip of the furnace to warm up, and also put another ingot on the lip. In 10-15 minutes the lead is melted, the mold is hot, and I'm ready to pour. I put the hot ingot in the melt and put a couple more ingots on the lip. I try to keep the pot as full as possible, so I replenish the melt every few minutes with a hot ingot off the lip, put another ingot on the lip, and press on. Usually the mold is turning out good boolits very shortly. I use a thermometer, and turn the control down to about 725 when the thermometer shows that it has gotten up there, from wide-open.
I pour the mold and watch the sprue. When it sets, I give it another couple of seconds and whack the sprue plate with my plastic hammer. Drop the sprue on the folded towel next to the furnace, inspect the boolit bases, then drop the boolits on the towel, pick up the sprue and return it to the pot, and repeat.
If the sprue doesn't clump up on the plate, but runs off like water, the sprue plate is too hot. When I see that starting, I turn the loaded mold upside down and set it on a sopping-wet rag, in a tray made of Al foil, and let it steam for a few seconds. Continue the process.
Differences here are my returning the sprues immediately to the pot, and keeping the pot full by replenishing with hot ingots from the furnace lip. Since they are pretty hot when they go into the melt, and there are already 9 lbs of up-to-temp alloy in the pot, adding the hot ingot, or sprue, isn't going to disturb the pot temp significantly. Boolits are observed, but not inspected, as I go. Any anomalies are dealt with.
So Hang In, Bro! You'll get there!

[EDG]

Everyone explains this from their own perspective and experience without qualifying some very important details.

I cast a few bullets many years ago and had no problems at all. But I stayed away from it while my kids were young.
Years later the kids are adults and I am trying to cast again without any luck at all. What changed?

Well I originally cast for a .357 and a .44 magnum. Back then lead was cheap and I had a source of solder dross that allowed me to cast with a high tin alloy.
Nothing to it.

Now I am trying to cast 500 grain rifle bullets in a large cast iron mold using 20-1 alloy and it does not work so well.

I take casting comments with a grain of salt because in many cases people that cast in large volumes are pistol shooters that are casting very easy to cast designs. Casting large rifles bullets is not the same kind of casting exercise.

[dondiego]

Everyone explains this from their own perspective and experience without qualifying some very important details.

I cast a few bullets many years ago and had no problems at all. But I stayed away from it while my kids were young.
Years later the kids are adults and I am trying to cast again without any luck at all. What changed?

Well I originally cast for a .357 and a .44 magnum. Back then lead was cheap and I had a source of solder dross that allowed me to cast with a high tin alloy.
Nothing to it.

Now I am trying to cast 500 grain rifle bullets in a large cast iron mold using 20-1 alloy and it does not work so well.

I take casting comments with a grain of salt because in many cases people that cast in large volumes are pistol shooters that are casting very easy to cast designs. Casting large rifles bullets is not the same kind of casting exercise.
You might want to try a ladle for those large boolits.

[JimA]

And I guess I am one of the unlucky ones.........I have never been blessed with a free-form lead stalagmite under either of my 4-20's in many years. They just do not leak. And....I never use sawdust in them! Mabe some correlation there?!?!?!?!

Works for me.

My Lee 4-20 pot has never leaked either and I've used charred sawdust on top for a couple of years. Maybe we are doing something else wrong:-(

[DerekP Houston]

My Lee 4-20 pot has never leaked either and I've used charred sawdust on top for a couple of years. Maybe we are doing something else wrong:-(

lmao you just jinxed it I said the same thing a month ago. Now I've taken it apart twice and cleaned still got the dreaded drip ;).

[OS OK]

lmao you just jinxed it I said the same thing a month ago. Now I've taken it apart twice and cleaned still got the dreaded drip ;).

You know I think I'm going to try lapping the valve in mine with valve lapping compound…whacha think?

OS OK

[44man]

I did not read all the pages posted. But to see failure and give up so soon means a fella will never make a good load for a gun either. There are NO instant results. You need to work until it works and becomes so boring you would cut grass with scissors first.
I HATE casting and loading because it really is a chore that defines BORING.
I need to define BORING for you, it is when stuff works AFTER you do the work that takes work and thought.
Many have a book for every mold and what temps or special moves with times to the second. My Lord, use the pages to start the wood stove. NOT A SINGLE MOLD NEEDS what is special until you get to heavy brass or the nutty 6 cavity stuff. Bottom pour is where I won't go either, never made it work. I can drain a 20# pot to the bottom without a reject and the bottom pour is plugged with a tapered brass pin. I refuse to fool with the stupid leak-a- matic that changes each pour so you need to clean the spout or clean the pot. Why in the world would you EVER need to clean the pot?

[DerekP Houston]

You know I think I'm going to try lapping the valve in mine with valve lapping compound…whacha think?

OS OK

Give it a whirl, mine has been working fine since I cleaned it out. I'm guessing over the year oxided bits and "unclean" lead from starting accumulated. I found about an 1" of just **** sitting in the bottom I dumped out. It has been working much better just haven't had the need for more boolits yet, still loading up the already cast.

[Boolseye]

I will just weigh in with some encouragement. If you truly want to cast, and you have a modicum of mechanical ability, then it is doable. It may be harder if you're not so good with tools, or have a short attention span, but the only good reasons to stop are 1)lack of mechanical aptitude (dangerous!) 2) no attention span (also dangerous!) or 2) Ya just don't want to. If none of these apply to you, keep at it. You can do it.

edit: of course, there are other reasons to stop (health, money, etc.) I'm talking about people for whom these things are not the obstacle.

[44man]

I will just weigh in with some encouragement. If you truly want to cast, and you have a modicum of mechanical ability, then it is doable. It may be harder if you're not so good with tools, or have a short attention span, but the only good reasons to stop are 1)lack of mechanical aptitude (dangerous!) 2) no attention span (also dangerous!) or 2) Ya just don't want to. If none of these apply to you, keep at it. You can do it.

edit: of course, there are other reasons to stop (health, money, etc.) I'm talking about people for whom these things are not the obstacle.
Real good. My grandson lives with us. Super smart and never forgets anything. Has hearing like a bat too. But he is Bipolar and can not wipe his butt. He can not even rake leaves and is as useless a human i have ever seen. He will never drive a car so if we are gone he will starve to death.
We are not the same. Dave can't cast and can ruin a mold, can't hit a deer if tied to the barrel.
Called a while back. Asked when deer season opened---HEY it was March!
I do not know what the OP wants. But it takes brains and work. This is not a school funded by liberals or left wing collage professors.

[hickfu]

I wish I lived close to ya, I remember the frustration of my first day casting... I bought everything all at once along with 1100lbs of lead alloy and 3 molds (350gr, 430gr and 540gr) after the first try and no success. I got on here and started to read all the threads about casting and what worked and didnt work for others. the next day I got a hot plate. I took the time to figure out my pots settings by turning it up a little at a time to find where 650 was on the dial... then I stopped for the day. The next day I turned on the pot and set the hotplate to med/high and set my mold on it. I just puttered around for 30 or so minutes while they both heated up.

When the pot hit 650 I took the mold off the hot plate and casted the first perfect boolits (I forgot to add that when I got the mold I washed it with dish soap and a toothbrush to get off the oil that the manufacture used) The next day I used the next mold and so on until I could cast good boolits with all of them.

I was lucky with the PC I guess, I got great coverage from the first try with the shake and bake method, but I lived in a very dry area with very little humidity.

Take it slow, figure out 1 thing at a time.. it will all fall into place and you will laugh at how easy it seems when you get there.

[runfiverun]

EDG try the ladle it seems to do tons better with the heavier boolits.

if your stuck with the bottom pour, open the valve further and shoot the alloy straight in the sprue hole as quickly as possible.
that's how I deal with long skinny boolits, and my 435gr 45-70 mold.

[Shiloh]

Because of the posts here on the forum, I cast much better boolits than when I started. Fewer rejects, faster production.

Shiloh

[Shiloh]

Because of the posts here on the forum, I cast much better boolits than when I started. Fewer rejects, faster production.

Shiloh

[ArrowJ]

I do not know what the OP wants. But it takes brains and work. This is not a school funded by liberals or left wing collage professors.

I am not sure what to say to that.

[ArrowJ]

I have stayed away from the pot since my post to regroup. I am excited to try again.

I slugged the barrel on my 9mm Springfield Armory XD Mod 2 sub compact with a 3" barrel. It came out as .354". I have to say I was not expecting that. So if my mold drops at .356 and I powder coat to .358 do I need to resize to .356?

I filled a 9mm case with soft lead, pulled it with an inertial puller, lubed it with Rem oil, started it down the muzzle with a brass punch, and pushed it the rest of the way through with a wooden dowel by hand. I measured from one side to the other where the groves left lands on the slug using my Frankford Arsenal digital calipers.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160403/8f617ff4b7f565cf267f15733bf1a86c.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160403/fa2fcacdff0397376341949cdbf8b314.jpg

[Yodogsandman]

Did the slug start out at that diameter? I'd also think that it would be a bigger diameter.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

SNIP...

One problem I have is that I have read so much that I have all these warnings going off in my mind, and contradictory opinions etc. As an example, I worry that I am losing tin because my melt is too hot, and because it is taking me so long to get my temp to settle. I leave wood chip ash on the top, but then have to move it to dip my mold. It feels like I have read too much, but I refuse to carpet that that is possible :) Time and practice are the solution as you say.
I believe this is your MAIN problem...You've read too much here that is advice for the advanced caster.
You need to put all that out of your mind and just cast.

You have a pot thermometer, get your alloy stabilized to around 700º. Then leave it, don't add any more ingots or sprues.
Get your mold pre-heated, with hotplate or dipping the corner of the mold in the alloy.
have your mold guide adjusted so the sprue plate is about 1/2" from the spout.
then start casting...don't stop to inspect the boolits, just cast.

The sprue puddle should take 3 to 6 seconds to freeze.
If it freezes quicker than that, you'll probably see shiney boolits and you need to cast faster.

If it takes longer than that to freeze, your boolits will be quite frosty, you need to slow your casting cadence.

Once you get to the correct casting cadence, your boolits will not be shiney or thickly frosted, they should be a uniform dull grey.

You need to simplify your thinking...once you get a few successful casting sessions under your belt, you'll have a grasp on the what, when, where, and why.

[ArrowJ]

No, it cut a ring of lead off by the time it got started down the barrel, although I did not measure it prior. Still, I had to pound it into the barrel.

[44man]

I am not sure what to say to that.
I meant that everyone here will have more knowledge and help then you can ever get in college.
Kids today don't want to learn either, just party and protest! :holysheep
We all know a million posts can be read but you need to put things to use by yourself to find what works and never, ever give up because you will find it so much easier then you can think.
I could say "May the force be with you" but I have not found it. I started pouring my own sinkers when about 6 years old so I have poured the magic metal for 72 years.
I want the OP to just not give up and put some time in it, the flow will come and soon he will be posting answers to new guys too.
In the mean time I can be a tough taskmaster and will rap knuckles with a ruler.

[44man]

No, it cut a ring of lead off by the time it got started down the barrel, although I did not measure it prior. Still, I had to pound it into the barrel.
I also suspect the size because a slug should not slide out with a dowel by hand. The bore must be oiled, not just the slug and you should have to pound it all the way. Brass rods the best, close to bore size.
I get a slug in the barrel and upset it with a brass rod at both ends. Yes, I can even do that with a revolver. You can wear the slug to a smaller size. Only pure lead should be used so it can upset to the groove bottoms. No spring back. I found round ML balls the right size work very well or pure sinkers, never an actual boolit.
let me find my ruler! :bigsmyl2:

[ArrowJ]

I did oil the barrel and use pure lead (well roofing lead that I could cut with scissors), but did not use a brass rod.

I found it odd that it would push through with hand pressure after getting it started as well. I do not have the right tool for the job as concerns the brass rod so I will have to find that first before I attempt it again.

[44man]

JonB has really hit the nail without it bending. Life is easier when you don't worry. I retired with little money and needed molds so I made a vise out of cast iron to make my own out of scrap aircraft aluminum I had and scrap 1/4" stainless for sprue plates. I have a cheap Smithy lathe, drill, mill.
I make cherries and finish them by hand, harden and temper. I do not draw boolit designs, just cut what looks right and nobody has made better shooting boolits. Some have altered them for a custom but they are only close.
What I have learned can't be read anywhere except here.
You have a little problem casting is all, try to make molds!
I want you to stay and learn how great cast can be, all of us are here for a reason.

[44man]

I did oil the barrel and use pure lead (well roofing lead that I could cut with scissors), but did not use a brass rod.

I found it odd that it would push through with hand pressure after getting it started as well. I do not have the right tool for the job as concerns the brass rod so I will have to find that first before I attempt it again.
Roofing lead is good but have to admit I had access to a lot of things at work that is hard to find, some I had no idea at the time I got it for what use it was. Big, huge block of aircraft aluminum they were going to toss. Brass rods to 1". I worked at the airline and they tossed a lot that I could take with a slip signed by a supervisor. I have tables, doors, file cabinets, steel and all kinds of stuff from nuts and bolts.
I was ramp, loading airplanes but hung out with mechanics and had access to the tool rooms and parts departments. I used the tools and machines. The bench I am sitting at was tossed, I put my name on it and got a slip to take. i can adjust the height. I had combinations to parts lockers so I could put new blades on band saws. Or belts on sanders. I could go into the parts department to get drills, etc. Nobody from the ramp ever did what I had.
Mechanic supervisor would come in and ask what I was making. Life was great.
Many of my friends are aircraft mechanics that come to shoot, use my boolits and loads and even have me fix plumbing in their homes or electric and siding. I fix guns and have made more customs then I can name. I have done everything and anything from poured basement walls to fixing TV's, laid block to build my addition to roofing. Found my room was 1/8" out when hanging drywall. There is nothing I have not done from furniture up.
I have little tolerance for someone that can't make their way.165254 Pie safe I made for Carol from a white oak that fell in the woods. 165255My work carving a ML stock. Then checkering my Swede stock, cherry tree that fell in the woods.

[44man]

Can't cast a good boolit? In ten minutes with me and you will make thousands.
Ever checker a stock?165261165262My friends Enfield.
Ouch, ouch, Make a bad boolit and quit? How about making a scratch on a $300 piece of wood and quit?

[44man]

I know fear, it is there in spades when a guy brings a super piece of wood to make a stock from and checker it. Bring a kit ML and want it carved, they have no stinking idea. I did it anyway.
The mold is nothing compared to the fear I have had.

[Yodogsandman]

44man, that's some serious craftsmanship! Nice, nice stuff!

[44man]

I can't do it anymore. I would stare at wood for a long time and think about it longer.
The point is that once a chisel touches, you never stop even if it took a month before starting. Yeah I would procrastinate like nobody else.
My ML stocks were made from huge planks of curly maple I bought at a kiln. If you want something hard, that wood needs cut cross grain only or it will chunk out. I could not find store bought tools that cut so I had to make my own. I would leave the stock 1/8" larger, carve it and then take the rest of the stock to final dimensions. All cross grain.
Checkering was a real challenge, I tried the tools on scrap and tore it to shreds so I drew a pattern on a .22 smooth bore I had made a stock for, Winchester gallery gun I got free, no stock and broken firing pin. Much fun but it costs more to shoot then a whole box of .44's!
Anyway I did not make a single mistake with the checkering, something where practice is a waste of time. I never could put effort in practice. My second job was my Swede. I bought a fancy pattern from Brownel's. one that you wet and slide onto the wood, cut through it. I made all kinds of layout tools too so I could just draw a pattern. Cut grooves parallel, etc.
Then trouble with Ruger's with short transfer bars so the bar would drop off the pin with a light trigger. Made my own from a slab of thick tool steel by hand. Harden and temper.
Made ML mainsprings and frizzen springs by hand and none ever broke.
Had a guy bring an old double Ithaca, forearm was missing with all the steel. I made the steel parts by hand and let me tell you the part that rides the action was no picnic. I could not find any to buy. Then I made the parts to lock it on and the spring. Plus the wood.
I was crazy and nothing was too hard. I could fix cracked stocks so they never broke again and you could not see the fix.

[Handloader109]

Don't sweat it so much..... Get the pot out and try again. Btw, I made decent the first time out of the gate, had a lot of very frosty bullets, but they worked. Now the second, third, and fourth time I struggled mightily and had a lot of trouble. Tried too hard to make perfect bullets.... Oh, I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with turning on my Lee 20 pound pot and walking away while it melts my lead...... I ALWAYS close off the spout when I finish casting. Once melted and I am ready to cast, I open it up.... If it drips or slows down, I close it off and reopen the spout. Easy! Oh, I installed a wing nut on it to make it easy. The stupid slot for a screwdriver drove me crazy. Heat your molds up, I agree, about 4-5 seconds to frost (after about 5-10 casts) and once hot, I can open and cut sprue with gloved hand. It always seems to be easy, but it is tedious, trying and not always successful. Even now, I'll go start and shut down if things are not going right... And then try again another day. Don't pc, just size to. 357 and alox

[trapper9260]

I see no one said about, just make sure you vent the area you are casting in,that way you will not have problems later with your health. As for me I started from making sinkers when I was about 6 to 7 years old years ago, my dad taught me how to do it with out a mold usen sand and newspaper.But then later use a mold.I took up casting boolits on my own.It all take time to learn what will work for you and go from there.For pre heat the mold what I do is when I melt my alloy I have my mold on the hot plate at the same time .The time I have my pot all fill .My mold is alot of times up to temp and cast good. after you get a system on casting you keep it going you will not need to keep the hot plate plug in. Also if you need to stop for some reason and still have your plate going keep the alloy in the mold and set it on the plate till you get back to keep going. The alloy will help to keep the mold up to temp that will work. I do not use a term. to see what the temp is.I go by what the mold will tell me.Because with different mold makes and size booilts will not cast the same as others will. Like you have a mold to cast 22 cal and you have one for 44 cal the temp will be different. Just take you time to see what will work and go from there. The first ones i done did not come out good also.But learn from it. I also learn alot on this site also for some of the things I need to improve with.I am here to learn and give advice for what works for me.As to clean the mold I do the same as the OP and it works for me and I smoke it right after also. the first 2 to 3 sometimes will have some bad and good boolits but after that it is good after depends on how fast or slow you go.As for size of the boolit .it also depend on the alloy you usen of what is in it.That is what i found out. the softer and larger the boolit and the harder and smaller it will be.unless someone else have another reason for that beside the temp.

[ArrowJ]

I see no one said about, just make sure you vent the area you are casting in,that way you will not have problems later with your health.

I have the garage door open, a fan blowing, and wear a cartridge respirator. I was going to open the window, but that day the wind would have been blowing the fumes at me instead of away. I am guessing it is not as ventilated as it seems because a lot of it is probably caught in the rafters. I did my smelting at the front of garage almost outside.

[trapper9260]

You do good then .I just want to let you know about have it vented.Do not worry about the it going in the rafters.the main part is not get it going in your lungs. If you where not far from me.I am in NE Iowa,I would show you how I do it. Also what works for me.

[BNE]

ArrowJ, I read the first few posts on this thread and then skipped to the end....

Don't give up or get too frustrated. I started casting and ran into a lot of the same issues. I finally took every bullet I cast the first year and melted them down and started over. AFTER I read a lot of the advice given here. I was glad to hear you are 40. I'm 46 and feel like a little kid when I see what the "Old Guys" here know.

Keep asking questions, there is good help here.

[jonk]

Lots of good advice so far. To reiterate.

Don't worry about powder coating, or lube, or temperature. Worry about making good boolits.

I assume you degreased your mold.

Turn the Lee pot on high. When all the alloy is molten, let it go another 10 minutes. Dip the corner of your mold in for 60 seconds.

Now start casting.

if you still get poor fill our your alloy is contaminated. Otherwise, a frosted bullet is what you will have, and it's no problem.

Now make a pile of them.

We can go from there.

[44man]

I have the garage door open, a fan blowing, and wear a cartridge respirator. I was going to open the window, but that day the wind would have been blowing the fumes at me instead of away. I am guessing it is not as ventilated as it seems because a lot of it is probably caught in the rafters. I did my smelting at the front of garage almost outside.
Entirely not needed. There is no danger from casting except the dust when you skim. I dump it into a coffee can, it does not float in the air easy.
Smoke from flux catches fire and I mostly use wax, not an unpleasant smell.
I cast on the workbench in the garage by a window but in the winter I don't open it.
Our pots do not get hot enough for lead to fume.

[lablover]

Entirely not needed. There is no danger from casting except the dust when you skim. I dump it into a coffee can, it does not float in the air easy.
Smoke from flux catches fire and I mostly use wax, not an unpleasant smell.
I cast on the workbench in the garage by a window but in the winter I don't open it.
Our pots do not get hot enough for lead to fume.

This is good news, I've been casting in the garage with hardly any ventilation. If I'm cleaning the pot I wear a mask but thats it.

[Bonz]

I too got very frustrated when I first started casting. Had lots of issues and no one to ask for help. Finally I decided to think through it logically.

1st thing I did was buy some actual Lyman #2 alloy so that I was 100% sure that I had enough tin to get proper fill in the mold. That helped quite a bit.

2nd thing was discovering how temperature really has such a huge impact on casting. Both mold and lead have to be in the right temperature range. Bought a hot plate to maintain the mold temperature and it made a huge difference.

I have fine tuned my casting since I have been on this site. Most advice is good and helpful. I've used Alox since day one but I also want to get into powder coating. Alox is a "no brainer" and you just need to be sure that everything is covered and let them dry before loading them.

Have 2 Lee pots and the temps are all over the place and I was forced to babysit them with a thermometer. I finally broke down and bought a PID from a member on this site. No doubt the best thing that I have ever bought to improve my casting.

I bought a Cabine Tree lead hardness tester to remove a lot of the guess work. Linotype/Monotype is expensive and I just add enough to get my lead to about 15 bhn. Sure I have paid for the tester by now by not wasting Linotype/Monotype while hardening softer lead.

Read the stickies; lots of good info there, protect yourself from lead splatter/spill, keep your area ventilated and mostly enjoy yourself.

[flyingrhino]

Hang in there. It really is relaxing and rewarding. You sound like you are in information overload right now. My suggestion is to set your temp, preheat your mold and commence to casting. Goal here is to just get the flow of the process down. Dont worry about making good boolits. If you are taking time while casting to check your boolits you wont get good ones. Its too slow. Just crank out some lead and see what happens. They WILL get better and it wont take long. Correct heat and pace results in good Boolits. Dont over think it. People have been casting for hundreds of years with nothing compared to what we have today for equipment.

[ArrowJ]

People have been casting for hundreds of years with nothing compared to what we have today for equipment.

Good point!

[ArrowJ]

[QUOTE=Bonz;. I finally broke down and bought a PID from a member on this site.[/QUOTE]

What does a PID cost?

[ArrowJ]

Ok, I tested my RCBS lead thermometer in boiling water. It is about 8° off which seems pretty dang good to me.

I turned on the Lee 20 bottom pour and got the following temps:

5 = 800°
6 = 950°
7 = > 1000° (higher than it will measure)

Now, assuming these temps hold the next time I turn it on with the same alloy. It seems unwise to turn this thing all the way up and start casting. I never made it to setting 8, 9, or HI because my thermometer ran out of numbers on 7!

So, to keep things as simple as possible without having my lead >1,000° would you say get it relatively steady at 800°-850° and just start casting (with a hot mold)?

[ArrowJ]

I also slugged my barrel. The first attempt raised some questions as it came out .354. I refined my technique entering through the breech with a slug made from pure lead that measured .360. Again, my reading comes to .354 all the way around on the lands created by the groves of the barrel.

I measured using a Frankford Arsenal digital caliper. At that point, I measured a Hornady XTP 45 jacketed bullet with a nominal diameter of .451 and got .4505 and I am confident my barrel is indeed a little tight at .354.

I ordered a Lee push through sizer kit in .356. I was going to buy a .355 and open it up if needed just so I would have more options if needed, but apparently that is not a stock item.

Thanks to the guys that gave me help with the slugging on the forum and via PM!

[ArrowJ]

I have this very thin anodized aluminum from a computer heat sink. It is just slightly bigger than my Lee mold. Would it be too thin to place under the mold on my hotplate?

My hotplate has a coil heating element, but a ridged cast iron plate. I am reluctant to place the mold right on it...I do not know why...probably read it somewhere.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160406/7aaf4a29558a5fb4fc8ed7905c7afe8a.jpg

[IMG]http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160406/25d7a12268a2c354f7408fa047bf6bf7.jpg

[fecmech]

I see no problem setting your mold on the cast iron hot plate. I am surprised that your pot goes to 1000 deg. I would suggest starting in the 750 deg range with a hot degreased mold and you should have good bullets within a few pours. IMO it's better to start too hot than too cool. Your mold and pot will cool quickly so I've always found it easier and quicker to find my steady state casting temp coming from the top down. Just jump in and do it, it's not really hard.

[OS OK]

If you want to see how quickly your lead temp. will respond to change, just drop 5 sprue cuts into the pot while watching the thermometer…it will drop almost instantaneously. Temp travels fast in molten lead. If your pot gets too hot those sprues will tame it quickly.
Yesterday for the first time I used a hot plate…what a difference. When the phone rang I put my mold on the plate upside down, sprue plate down thinking that it would hold temp. better that way. I was talking for 5 minutes or so and when I resumed I didn't have bad boolits, they were just fine.
I tried something new casting a longish .325" rifle boolit…I put the nozzle of the pot against the sprue plate hole and 'pressure cast' that round to get better nose and base fill-out…it worked so well that I continued for the entire pot.

Enjoy…OS OK

[DerekP Houston]

What does a PID cost?

Depends on your knowhow and the quality of parts you purchase. I've seen mentioned I think 60-70 was the cheapest if you build it yourself, I had one premade and powder coated so it was around 140ish with all the additions. If you check the vendor section there are currently a few people providing quality units at what I considered a reasonable price.

I was casting fine without it for a few months, just decided to splurge and get one.

OS OK nailed it, the hotplate was more useful in getting "good boolits". I started reading some older threads by goodsteel and he preached consistency for best results.

[kmw1954]

This is a good read at least for me, learning a whole lot from this.

[Smoke4320]

Some really good tips on here ..
A hotplate will make life casting much simpler .. I keep mine on the entire casting session.. If need be I can set the mold on the plate take a break and resume at anytime within two casts I am back up to speed
the top of my hot plate looks just like your pic and I have had no issues the aluminum or brass molds

A PID while not absolutely necessary, like the hotplate makes life simpler. Takes all the temp guesswork out. You know exactly when you can start, add spews or lead and you know exactly when to resume and will give you more consistent bullets

the addition of these 2 items made all the difference in my casting .. No more fighting with broken in molds to get good bullets

Now I will say that the first 1 to 2 casting sessions with a brand new mold can be hairy.. now after the 3 heat and cool downs on the hot plate to set the pins and condition the mold . I will do a casting session of 30 to 50 bullets don't care really how they look. Its just to further the conditioning and get lead in the cavities
Stop the day with that mold come back another day and repeat ..
Usually without much fighting good bullets will appear within 3 to 6 casts.. stubborn molds make take 10 or so. about 50 or so bullets and I stop.
on the third casting session its like magic I get good bullets very quickly
now this is just a routine for me. It seems to work well and I don't get frustrated trying to get good bullets out of a brand new mold

[Schrag4]

I have a cheap hot plate (exposed coil) that I bypassed the "thermostat" on to use for melting down wheel weights. Will that get too hot to heat up an aluminum mold without damaging it? Like ArrowJ, I'm hesitant to place my mold directly on it. I've been dipping the corner of the mold into the casting pot, and starting out by only filling the first cavity or two, but it takes way to long get the mold hot that way, IMO.

[Bonz]

What does a PID cost?

bought mine from OBIII for $140.00 almost 2 years ago and it works great. Yes, it may not be necessary but its awesome to set you temperature at 700 f and it maintains the lead temperature within a few degrees. I also plan on using it to regulate the temperature on a toaster oven once I get going on Powder coating.

[whisler]

Don't put your aluminum mold on an exposed coil. Put an old circular saw blade on the coils and the mold on that.

[Maineguide]

First time pc (ever), perfect results. Study each post, carefully. I use airsoft & plastic tub. Powder color pellet color makes a big difference. Clean your cb with acidtone & towel. Use extreme foil. Good luck. First time cb also great success.

[Schrag4]

Don't put your aluminum mold on an exposed coil. Put an old circular saw blade on the coils and the mold on that.

Thanks for verifying for me. I'll do just that.

[Bstorey]

Newbie here, what is a PID?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[dragon813gt]

Newbie here, what is a PID?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Simple answer, a temperature controller. You can google PID controller if you want the technical end of it. It stands for Proportional Integral Derivative.

[Bstorey]

Simple answer, a temperature controller. You can google PID controller if you want the technical end of it. It stands for Proportional Integral Derivative.

Thank you.

[David2011]

I disagree with fecmech....DO NOT leave a Lee bottom pour pot unattended. You may come back to a heck of a mess.


ArrowJ,

You might consider getting a galvanized steel garage floor oil drip pan for your casting bench. They have a lip to keep things from rolling off and lead won't stick to the galvanized coating. They're about 25.5" x 47" and $12 at Wal-Mart.

David

[ArrowJ]

ArrowJ,

You might consider getting a galvanized steel garage floor oil drip pan for your casting bench. They have a lip to keep things from rolling off and lead won't stick to the galvanized coating. They're about 25.5" x 47" and $12 at Wal-Mart.

David

I considered that. My bench is 24 inches though so I would have to modify it. I almost bought one at the auto store, but it was covered in a thin coat of oil or something that I did not feel like cleaning off. Right now I sit the lead pot on a cookie sheet to at least catch drips.

[runfiverun]

cookie sheet is fine.

I'd spend more time actually casting and less time worrying about it.
I have none of the fancy equipment listed anywhere in this whole thread and my casting is good enough to shoot groups as good as jacketed bullets.
you'll get a lot better a lot faster by turning the pot on and heating up the mold with some lead.

[popper]

ArrowJ - I have a hot plate like that, just set my Al. moulds on it - but- you need to prop the handle so the mould sits level. I set the knob to MED. yours may very a bit (~400F). Also the spade lug connections on the heater will eventually burn out. When they do, try some silver solder.

[ArrowJ]

Why NOT To Give Up On Casting...

I started at 850° with a mold I warmed on the hotplate and turned down the flow of lead. I ended up with what I think are 132 usable bullets. This is my second attempt and I threw out maybe 20. I will take it.

Now for the question of the day. As it was my first successful pour and the number produced so small I decided to weigh all of them. I got the following results:

127.4 Average
128.0 Max
126.4 Min
1.6 Spread

Because I weighed them all I culled an absolutely perfect looking bullet that weighed 124.6 grains because a) it must have had a cavity inside it, and b) it pushed my difference in weight up to 3.4 grains. Now assuming that most guys do not weigh every single bullet, what effect would that have when you choose a charge assuming your bullets are all within 1.6 grains of each other when really you are working with a difference of 3.4? Would it be dangerous?

This bullet is supposed to drop at 125 so 127 is fine with me, but thus far I have not found any load data for it for the powder I have (Ramshot Silhouette). I can find similar bullet weight and style, but not with my powder, to say nothing of COL. I will keep working on that.

Anyway, much better second attempt. Thank you all very much!

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160409/2e01d149c4dab33e99b7efbc551b6721.jpg

[dragon813gt]

Use load data for 125 grain bullets. COL is determined by your gun load according. Make sure they fit the mag and pass the plunk test.

As far as the difference in weight I would not be concerned at all. For hunting bullets I cull to +-.2 grains. But in all honesty it hasn't made a difference on target. I'm not shooting at 300+ yards but it will make a difference at longer ranges. I don't bother weighing pistol bullets after determining what a few initially weight. It's size/lube/load/shoot for them.

[44man]

I made a PID and it worked fine but to choke voltage and amps creates heat. I made an extra large heat sink but it was not enough so the PID burned up. Heat is a huge problem so to pay $140 for one could be a pig in a poke. Is there a warranty for a replacement? Those things get super hot.

[dragon813gt]

Did you burn up the PID or a SSR? The SSR is what would burn up if you installed one, which you should. W/ the proper size SSR and heatsink there are no worries about over heating. That being said electronic and mechanical parts can and will fail at anytime.

So to sum all that up. Use a SSR and if it fails replace it. The PID simply tells the SSR when to turn on and off.

[ArrowJ]

Use load data for 125 grain bullets. COL is determined by your gun load according. Make sure they fit the mag and pass the plunk test.

As far as the difference in weight I would not be concerned at all. For hunting bullets I cull to +-.2 grains. But in all honesty it hasn't made a difference on target. I'm not shooting at 300+ yards but it will make a difference at longer ranges. I don't bother weighing pistol bullets after determining what a few initially weight. It's size/lube/load/shoot for them.

The closest I can find using my powder is a 125 grain JHP. Should I just try to find one of the powders listed? The manuals talk about small changes in COL effecting pressure and especially in 9mm (Lyman 49th). If I figure it based on what will chamber as close to a listed bullet that is not even the same shape it seems like I am asking for trouble. No?

I guess it would be prudent to ask if anyone on the forum has loaded the Lee 356-125 RN (not tumble), using Ramshot Silhouette?

There is a 124 grain listed in Lee's book using RS.

[dragon813gt]

Ramshot has a load listed in their manual for a 124 grain bullet. I suggest you download it.

As for COL and pressure. They are right when it comes to a cartridge like 9mm. But the manual data is only specific to the firearm they used to develop it. Each firearm is going to be different and you have to work up accordingly. A drastic reduction from the manual would raise a flag in my mind. But outside of Hornady bullets none of the ones I use are listed in manuals.

[ArrowJ]

I have that manual in print, and simply missed it. I was looking at five different manuals. I feel stupid. Thank you for taking the time to look. Sorry you had to do it! Dangit.

[40Super]

When it comes to load charges , you always start low and go up. When you have a listed recipe and oal for a certain bullet its easy to figure out how far that bullet is seated into the case, the volume left in the case is what determine pressures , not how long the round is . If I'm making it clear to picture.

[dragon813gt]

I have that manual in print, and simply missed it. I was looking at five different manuals. I feel stupid. Thank you for taking the time to look. Sorry you had to do it! Dangit.

If it's any consolation I was looking at Vol. 4.1. Vol. 6.0 has a lot of loads listed for Silhouette.

[ArrowJ]

The Berry's plated 124 grain listed in the data has a COL of 1.160. That bullet passes the plunk test in my barrel at that COL.

My cast bullet had to have a COL of 1.085 to pass. A difference if .075.

[ArrowJ]

When it comes to load charges , you always start low and go up. When you have a listed recipe and oal for a certain bullet its easy to figure out how far that bullet is seated into the case, the volume left in the case is what determine pressures , not how long the round is . If I'm making it clear to picture.

But my data is for a bullet that is longer than my bullet. However, even though my bullet is shorter it has to be seated deeper to pass the plunk test.

[40Super]

So basically the depth inside the case is similar so that data would be a good one. It's the main reason why charges get less as bullet weight goes up , those bullets are longer and need to be seated deeper so less volume left in case , less volume =more pressure so less powder to keep the pressure the same . If you get into looking at it that way , it's easier to work up loads without much published data.

[ArrowJ]

So basically the depth inside the case is similar so that data would be a good one. It's the main reason why charges get less as bullet weight goes up , those bullets are longer and need to be seated deeper so less volume left in case , less volume =more pressure so less powder to keep the pressure the same . If you get into looking at it that way , it's easier to work up loads without much published data.

So a 147 grain bullet would have to be seated deeper because it would necessarily be longer meaning less volume leading to greater pressure. Thanks!

The manual he mentioned above also has a 124 grain lead bullet with an COL of 1.050 which is even closer to what I have so I am going to go with that.

Thanks again guys!

[Conditor22]

digging up the past --- good information

[mrbigsteel]

digging up the past --- good information

Agree. I am reading this for the first time today and learned some things.