45-70 cast loading help

[gunner300]

Tonight I loaded some Lee 457-450gr W/W cast boolits, three each of Trail Boss powder 12gr ,13,14,15,16gr max(call IMR powder to make sure 16gr. TB to bottom of bullet was safe in my Browning 1885 high wall 45-70).
The problem I'm having is that when these bullet are seated to OAL 2.550 they are well into the rifling of the 1885.
I seated a couple to 2.539 and there still in the rifling ?????? What gives here afraid to seat deeper don't want to compact the powder. any help ?

[GRUMPA]

You may need a different nose profile in what you own. I have the NOE 405gr so I can give it a whirl in my 45-70, but right now I'm using the LEE 405 HB but mine isn't the Micro-Groove barrel. Only used a couple right now since I want to size mine to .460 and all I have right now is the .459 but it worked pretty well, no leading.

Anyway I did a search, although I didn't read it all the way it may answer a question or 2.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?222293-Marlin-1895-SS-Microgroove-and-LEE-457-450-F-Cast-Bullets

[runfiverun]

Brownings are notorious for short throating their 45-70's their 86 is just as bad if not worse in that it won't chamber many of the jacketed bullets available to reloaders.
you can cut a new throat in the barrel in about 5 minutes by hand if you rent a reamer.

[gunner300]

I tore down those rds. ,seated a bullet to 2.456 to where rifling left no mark on bullet . Tomorrow I'll use 11grs to start and 13grs as max
and try them. That make sense to the more experienced loaders??

[runfiverun]

yes.
you have to have the round chamber.
and reducing the load because of the deeper seating is a very good idea.

[Scharfschuetze]

Several years ago, I had a the Browing 1895 High Wall match rifle for BP matches in 45/70. I have no idea if the throat was the same as your Browning 1885, but I used the Lee 405 grain HBRN, the Lyman 457193 and the Oregon Trail 405 grain designs without the issue that you are now having. All three boolit designs were crimped into the crimp groove for alternate use in an 1895 Marlin rifle.

Per Grumpa's suggestion of a different nose profile, you might try one of these designs and see how they work.

[Toymaker]

runfiverun
yes.
you have to have the round chamber.
and reducing the load because of the deeper seating is a very good idea.

Agreed, totally.
With Trail Boss take a fire formed case which will let a bullet slide in and out freely and fill it with powder. Put the bullet in and adjust the amount of powder until you've reached your desired OAL. Weigh the powder = 90% of this weight is your maximum load. Your minimum load is 70% of the weight.

IF you can find some, give IMR SR 4759 a try. - - - buy 8 lbs, if it doesn't work out I'll buy what's left:bigsmyl2:

AA 5744 is pretty good too

[EDG]

I would not worry about it. Reduce your Trail Boss load if you are afraid of a few thousandths of compression.
Other than that as long as your Browning will close on the load you can shoot it.

All the 45-70s I have ever owned (more than 10) had the short SAAMI throat and it never caused significant problems with bullets from 300 to 500 grains.
The 45-70s that I have owned included both Brownings and Rugers. Since I have no repeaters nearly all my ammo is set up for interference on the nose. I seat the bullets so it requires heavy thumb force to push the bullet in the last .050. The last few thousandths are forced home with the breech block.

My loads used Unique and SR4759 decades before there was Trail Boss. I have grown to prefer SR4759. You can also use 5744 and 4227.

[NSB]

Your gun was manufactured by Miroku for Browning. Miroku makes both the Browning and Winchester 1885s as well as the 1886 and a number of other guns for Browning. If you google the original specs for this caliber, you'll see that the call out is for virtually no throat....and that's the way they're made. I had the same problem with both of my Miroku made guns and it was solved by using a reamer to lengthen the throat. I took my guns to Turnbull for cosmetic work (CCH) and had them use their reamer to make the throat to the spec they used for their customized guns. When I went back to pick the first one up I asked how many thou they added and their response was "it's easier to give it to you in inches....about a quarter of an inch". The guns will now feed anything and it has not affected accuracy one bit. They are both very, very accurate. Just ream it out for the blunt ogive and long bullets.