How long will the rimmed rifle case survive

[GOPHER SLAYER]

In the not too distant future will we be able to buy a rimmed rifle cartridge that isn't a 30-30 or 45-70? If smaller ammo makers start to make them, will we have to pay a buck apiece or more? It seems every few times I go to the range I find cartridge cases I have never heard of. Is there really a need for all these new cartridges or will they quickly fade away like so many that have been brought out in the last twenty years. I wish the big ammo makers would just make brass for the guns we own now instead of some new 6.32 whatever for the AR platform. A friend of mine has one of those rifles and he said he is able to shoot fourteen cartridges in it. He changes barrels and whatever to accomplish this. That would be a big brass headache. Not my world.

[Outpost75]

I think as long as the PK family of machineguns remains in use, the future of the rimmed cartridge case is quite secure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkSehtrsm9o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJx6TmvHxDw

[runfiverun]

the way they look at it is they can sell you 100 pieces of 32-20 brass for 30 bucks at a 20% mark-up once every 5 years.
or they can sell the AR guy's 1,000 loaded rounds of ammo at a 50% mark-up once a month or so.

[Plate plinker]

More shooting is good shooting don't scorch our friends. They are just different than you or maybe me, so what?

[shooter93]

It will go in cycles. Some companies pick the odd rounds up like Grafs having 303 Savage made for them as well as some others. It is actually FAR better now to get some brass than it was in the 60's and 70's. You wouldn't believe what we went through to keep the old guns and double rifles shooting. Then a whole new group of shooters tires of whatever is popular and starts looking at the "odd" things. We never thought we would have places like Starline or Buffalo Arms to name just two. For myself....I try and round up enough brass for the odd ones I have that the beneficiary of my collection can shoot them for his lifetime or until another "interest' period comes around and suppliers start popping up again.

[Iowa Fox]

It appears that Remington & Winchester are bailing out of the reloading brass business. This is going to be the doom for several cartridges. Norma, Nosler, Lapua, Starline, Jamison, PPU will continue with the high volume cases but a lot are on the endangered species list. 225 Win, 375 Win to name a couple. Prices right now are sky high on a lot of the real common stuff $0.50 to $1.10 per piece. $2.00 to $3.00 on the bigger exotic stuff. Five years ago I looked at the piles of brass I had and told myself I'm nuts. Now I'm glad that when I had a chance to pick up new or once fired for next to nothing I did it.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

My lament in starting this thread was not to criticize what someone else shoots. If a shooter wants to shoot a 22-458, I could care less. What I was trying to say is that the big ammo companies keep bringing out new cartridges and dropping the old ones. Winchester has been doing this for a very long time. For example, how did the .256 pistol round work out. The .225 is another one. Try to pick up a box of that round the next time you go to the LGS. Remington's .357 MAX is another one. The ammo companies only have machinery for a certain number of different cartridges and I know about profit motive and all that but what about taking care of your customers. Some of you who commented on my thread seem to be very optimistic, I hope your optimism is justified. I am not the president of the International Pessimists Society but I am on the board of directors.

[country gent]

Alot of these companies are being ran by the accountants now. If a rounds sales dont equal up to others it risks being dropped. Tax codes now stop the large runs an storing as they pay taxes on whats on hand in invintory at the tax time. Used to be slower selling cases were ran in a large batch when needed and stored in invintory sold as needed. But the large run justified the time to change over and run them. 22 hornet may be fairly safe, 30-30 win also 218 bee, 25-20, 219 zipper, even 357 max and some of the newer cartridges may be on the list as sales dont justify the time. A new cartridge that dosnt catch on may only last a very few years. Also with the panic buying that went on selling headstamped loaded ammo was more important and profitable to manufacturers than unprimed brass.

[Blackwater]

As long as there's demand SOMEONE SOMEWHERE will make it, but the supply might be sporadic and intermittent AS LONG AS IT REMAINS LEGAL, which is another question altogether, and one that we all to often take for granted, but maybe shouldn't. That's my best guess, anyway.

[MT Gianni]

I am of the opinion that the major manufacturing companies are reaping the benefits of the "what if guns go away" sentiment of the last 8 years. The folks that own the guns are finding shooting is fun. At some point I believe the bigger guys will need to go back to their bread and butter market of the reloaders. If not, now is the time for the mid size companies to step up their market. If Graf and Sons can make small lots of odd calibers every year there is a market for it as well.
I do believe most of the newer cartridges introduced in the last 20 years with out a common case used for something else are gone. Ultra mags, super short mags, short mags all gone with a much shorter life span than the 303 Savage. At some point shooters will learn and Remchester might as well.

[dverna]

It is one reason I purchase calibers that will always be produced. "New" cartridges are of no interest unless they are based on a commonly available parent case.

[leadman]

Mt Gianni, Graf has another company make the brass, usually Hornady or PPU. They have to commit to a minimum number of cases to get it produced.
Bertram in Australia is another producer of many obsolete or odd ball cases.
Many of the old cases can be reformed from another more common case, but sometimes the dies to do this can run close to $200. The 30-30 can be used to reform to 25-35 win., 225 Win, 7mm Waters, 375 Win., and probably a few I can't think of right now.

[Artful]

While leadman is right - often the case formed from an older designed case isn't up the stress of a correctly made case. Example's would be if you want a 256 win mag you can put a 357 mag into a die and get one, but it's shorter than correct length. If you blow out a 30-30 to 375 big bore it also shorter but the brass is thinner walled at the case head - hence not as strong. Things that you have to consider. Another thing to consider is if you have a few boxes of these reformed cases on the bench all saying the same headstamp information and they get dumped together and a novice is trying to sort thru and use them you can wind up with a bad situation.

[Wis. Tom]

All I know is looking for 218 Bee ammo is no longer even an option. I have plenty of brass to reload, but to buy new, not going to happen.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Artful is exactly right. Many reloaders are under the impression that you can take an old case and turn it into a more modern one if it has the same outside dimension. This is simply not true. I happen to own a rifle using a case that is on life support, namely the 225 Winchester. It is thought that by some that you can simply resize the 30-30 by whatever means and you have a 225 case. For one thing the 225 is longer and the rim is 200k thinner. If you own a lathe you can trim the rim of a 30-30 but how many own a lathe? If it requires that I pay 2.00 or mare to shoot a gun that I own then I and that gun will soon part company. Of course I am not talking about some best quality British side by side. You wouldn't shoot one of those much anyway. I still feel that the rimmed rifle case is in danger of extension. If I should live another decade we will see if my feeling was justified. At my age you might ask, why worry about it? Hope spring eternal I guess.

[Geezer in NH]

Companies come out with new cartridges for one true reason. To sell more firearms!

Look at how many they made in the last 15-20 years that have about died the quick death that this reason alone caused. The new whoopee cartridges did not due what they hype was made of them.

[Mytmousemalibu]

I may be a bit of an oddity among my age of shooters & reloaders; I like the obscure, oddball, hard to find, hard to get cartridges. I don't have much in my safe that fits that niche but always open to add. One of the thinks I have been really on about getting is a lathe and milling machine, especially the lathe. It will make those special needs chamberings easier to deal with. As long as that new-fangled rimmed cartridge, 7.62x54R sticks around, I think the rimmed round will stick around.

[Harter66]

What burns me about it is when a very common cartridge family doubles the price for a particular caliberwhen the big difference is the head stamp. All the standard mags, well all of them that I know much about ,except what the 450 Marlin use 1 rim ,belt ,and base diameter from what 240 Weatherby to 458 Lott right ? So why is it that 7mm Remington is $.80 but 264 WM is $1.38 ea in boxes of 50? So they sell 10 million rounds of 7mm per yr and 50 k of 264 .... well $48 for 20 loaded is discouraging too. Look at the disparity between factory brass from 25 06' to 35 Whelen or 22-250 to 358 Win nevermind the older sisters 250 and 300 Savage. Buy rights 375 Winchester should be cheap I mean it's the basic 30-30 family case right ? No steps once formed .
Mechanically speaking why exactly do we have to run different brass seems to me that all of the Savage, 308,x57 and 06' families could be of 1 alloy and 3 mandrels for 308 and 06' and 2 should do for Savage and 57. If I could buy new basic brass for 3 of the 4 for .25 I'd be all over it .
In that vein why run a different alloy for 6.8 and 25,30,32 Rem, 30-30,32 SPC ,375, 225 and 38-55 , look what's here 3 maybe 4 mandrels and rimmed vs rimless ok so there's a 25,kpsi and a 62,kpsi cartridges in the mix big deal . Run UMC BASIC or WW BASIC . It makes sense really. I know it would sceachy with 9x17,19,21,23,25 ,38 super ,222 ,222 mag, 223 ,25-40 etc but really 1 mandrel would cover all the 9s and rimless 38s . Really just 1 for the 222/223 family.

I've never seen a round of 460 Rolland on the shelf but I've seen lots of GAP . Until 15 yr ago 45 Colts was not really a hot stock item, I'm sure at some point it was but it's not up there with ACP for common.

Let's face it for the last 8 yr shelf items even 50 yo whipped snappers like me have taken for granted as a fixture since just the 80s have been in some cases very obscure. It hit me like a run away truck when I was in a Walmart and the ammo shelf have 42 boxes of 45-70 and 32 boxes of 45 Colts. .....period,3 days later those were gone. At $42 /box I might add. Since then dealers struggle to stay stocked and fill gaps with whatever they can get and it sells . I saw a shop with no 06' and no 308 fill the 30 shelf with 7.5 Swiss,7.7 Arisaka, 30-40 ,303 and a couple of others I'd heard of but didn't know they were still in production meanwhile 30-30 and 300 Savage were absent too. I saw 175 gr RN 7mm Remington and 7-08 stocked . It's been crazy.

Have you counted how many cartridges there are in a particular case or length or caliber lately? I'm in nowhere near the class of some of the folks here but I have 31 die sets that have cartridges , moulds for 14 cal and 4 gauges . Out of all that there's 1 obsolete out of production cartridge and only 4 guns as such . I think in all actually that the manufacturers are doing a great job keeping up with a massive market. Imagine if Ford had 1 plant that had 2 car lines, a light truck line, a ute line and a heavy truck line and that had to serve all of North America from Mexico to the Northwest passage. Now imagine the Toyota, Chysler and GM only had the same ......

I don't think it's likely to see too many main stays draft away.....

[Firebird]

Not just brass, sometimes it's bullets. Hornady has had the 40 grain 22 Jet .222 diameter bullet on "temporarily suspended" for years, same with the 60 grain 25-20 FP bullet. Speer has their 70 grain 25-20 bullet, but while it isn't listed as not being manufactured it has been years since I have seen any. Same with the Remington 87 grain 25-20 bullet; out of stock now for year after year. Yes, you can cast for the 25-20 or 22 Jet, but those little cast bullets are hard to get full fill-out and hard to handle and get gas checks on - which is required for the 22 Jet to prevent leading.

[TXGunNut]

I've become a bit of a hoarder of some of the (seemingly) obscure brass that I enjoy. 32Spl just took another step towards obscurity recently but if I outlive my supply I can make do with 30WCF.
Looked at a nice enough 1895 in 35WCF today. Bertram and the company formerly known as Jamison still offer it. Looks like a nice cartridge. Yeah, it's got a rim. Seems more than a few of my favorite cartridges do.

[Harter66]

The last loaded round of 32 Remington is reported to have left Winchester in 1964 ,it's still available as an occasional from special vendors . Just 1 bullet available. .....I don't know that I've ever seen it but it seems to be a flat point for the 32 Winchester Special. There's a lot of cartridges that have gone away . Hornady dropped 2 of my preferred bullets for 308/06' and 7mm . I have a 264 WM ,outside of few $1 - 2 ea bullets I don't know that there are any 6.6 bullets up to the task of a 120 at 3400 fps or 160s over 3000. I also won't be buying any with Federal blue box at $42-46 . There are only a hand full of big sales belted mags do you suppose they too are on the brink of going away as well . Some will die some won't but odds are good someone here can make a tool to make 30-30 from 308 .

[nagantguy]

This post is on point and timely for me, a very dear friend and blood brother is on a quest for not only 32 Remington but 348 winchester ammo/cases as well.......told him I'd look for $10 bricks of .22 long rifle and fairy dust while I'm at it.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

It's true that we have far too many cartridges, and new arrivals which very likely won't last, are pushing old favourites which have lasted out of production. It is partly the manufacturers' fault, but not entirely. As well as new developments selling guns, old developments stop them selling guns, because of the way people choose to buy - and "people" is us. There are also many private individuals and small gunsmiths who fancy inventing something, and it is far easier to invent a new cartridge than a new firearm.

Advertising is vital to magazines, and editorial publicity is vital to advertisers. I remember the days when motorcycle magazine testers found out that if you started a couple of yards back from the start sensor, you would get an unrealistically short time for the standing quarter mile. Of course with some 7x57 Mausers, with some animals or target cards and on some days of the week, groups will be one-hole if you try long enough, and animals will collapse as if poleaxed. But the magazines print results they know can't be, to use a charitable word, typical.

[OptimusPanda]

I really can't see cartridges like 30-30 and 45-70 going out of production any time soon. Out of fashion, maybe, but not extinct. What I notice is that shooters at the range I go to don't enjoy lever actions as much. Which tend to be chambered in rimmed cartridges.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I think the .44-40, .303 and .444 Marlin are pretty safe, although they may get more expensive.

I wish they would see that someone choosing a new rifle may want a new cartridge a little, but someone with an old and cherished rifle wants an old cartridge a lot. He probably shoots other guns too, and would you buy a 12ga from someone who has just orphaned your .222 Magnum or your 5mm. Remington rimfire? An orphaned rimfire is very orphaned.