underhammer

[nitroproof]

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164794
I'd had a H&A Heritage .45 back in the 70's and have always regretted trading it off.

Picked up this underhammer rifle at a local gun show in the Fall of '14. Turned out to have a 1:28 Green Mountain LRH barrel.
Went for the Lee combo mold 320gr REAL bullet + Round Ball. To my delight it shoots a RB w/40 grains at the same point of aim as the REAL bullet w/80 grains of Pyrodex R/S @ 50 yds.
Over the winter I modified the forend and added the PG spur. Refinished it rust brown and redid the wood.

[richhodg66]

I've always been intrigued with these. I used to hunt a lot with a muzzle loader and killed a lot of deer with one. Mine was always heavy and ungainly it seems, always thought one of these would be nicer to handle and point.

Nice rifle and good job on the refinish. Looks like you have your practice load and hunting load figured out now.

[waarp8nt]

Looks real nice. I like the upgrades you have completed. Is that an oil finish on the wood?

I picked up my first underhammer recently, but have to do a little barrel work before I fire it. It is the buggy rifle edition with a 20 inch barrel, however someone drilled it for a Williams sight and drilled into the chamber just in front of the breech plug.

[nitroproof]

Fish scale reads 7.5 pounds... 32" - 7/8" barrel... 48.5" O/A.

[nitroproof]

Tung oil finish

[Mk42gunner]

There was quite a discussion here several years ago about building underhammer rifles. I always thought a brass framed one looked pretty good.

One of these days...

Robert

[Newtire]

I see that you can get actions and complete rifle kits from Pecatonica Rifle Works. I think they are pretty cool looking rifles. Going to find out how mine shoots tomorrow in fact. Have some Black MZ and 777 3f to start with. Thanks for the load info.

[big bore 99]

Nice lookin rifle. I have an old one in .58 cal. A real thumper.

[dondiego]

How did you mount the aperture sight on the round receiver?

[nitroproof]

How did you mount the aperture sight on the round receiver?

The base was machined to match the contour... was installed when I bought it. It's an Armstrong sight, only one I've ever seen.

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[dondiego]

Is it mounted in the wood or metal? Any idea where I might find a mount base like that?

[oldracer]

I have a H&A 58 caliber underhammer and it shoots great at least out to 100 yards. I bought it on a whim and the original owner had only shot it twice, his buddy told him to use 120 grains of FFG with the patched round ball and he said it nearly took his shoulder off! Great for me and I shoot it with 80 of FFG, no recoil issues.

I have the parts coming from Pecatonica River to make a 45 caliber, 1 in 18 twist slug gun with a 34 inch barrel. I am getting the Allen action as it has an adjustment for trigger pull so I can lighten it up some. I plan to use one of the 209 primer adapters and an extra set of tang sights I have with a Lyman globe front sight. I plan to blue all the metal and probably use clear lacquer for the finish, but not sure yet? It will have striped maple for the furniture so clear lacquer looks very good.

I think you will enjoy your underhammer very much and they are always a conversation started at the range for sure!

[bubba.50]

Is it mounted in the wood or metal? Any idea where I might find a mount base like that?


H&A underhammers had a threaded hole in the rear of the receiver to accommodate a rather odd peepsight they used to make. it looks like his base is mounted to that hole.

[dondiego]

My H&A type receiver from Pecatonica doesn't have the hole. Guess I could drill and tap one. Thanks Bubba........and have a gooden'.

[nitroproof]

As there are only two tapped holes on the side of the block and the hole for the mounting screw any hobby machinest/gunsmith could make a base. My rifle most likely was a
kit from Pecatonica or other source.

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[bedbugbilly]

Nice job! Very good looking rifle and that rear sight out to be just the berries!

I had a H & A in 45 caliber many years ago and like an idiot, I sold it. Later, when Deer Creek was making them, I ordered a 36 caliber from them and picked it up from them at Friendship. Out of the box, I took it over to the line and was shooting 1" groups at 25 yards with components that I picked up in the sheep sheds on the way over to shoot. I still have it and it is a great rifle!

A year ago, I bought a H & A 45 caliber. It needed work and it is still in progress. I'm going to brown the barrel and probably pour a pewter nose cap for it.

Pecatonica has the components but I really don't care for their stock designs. I'm going to order the action but I want to make my own stock - a more traditional style with a crescent butt plate. I'm toying with the idea of putting a full length foreshock on it but will decide that during the build. I still have some GM barrels from when I built rifles so may make ti so I can interchange barrels in several calibers.

Years ago, I shot with a round ball group once a month - very low key and just a good group of guys. Homer Dangler was one of them and he used to bring some of his custom rifles/smoothbores to try out. Everyone tossed a trinket on a blanket and according to shooting standing for the day, winner got first pick, etc. Most of the targets were "novelty type" - might be suckers, an X on a wood shingle, etc. One of the guys who was usually there had a H & A under hammer that was rebarreled in a 32 caliber barrel - about 3/4" across the flats and maybe 32" or so. He carried all of his shooting supplies - caps, balls, patches in an old musket cap tin. He took a lot of good natured kidding but he and that little under hammer usually out shot us all whether the others were using production rifles or our custom built ones.

I love the under hammers. Very simple, good for a lefty or a righty, a nipple directly into the barrel with very rarely a misfire, and a nice authentic and historical long gun. Just doesn't get any better! Add an interchangeable smoothbore barrel in a smaller gauge and you have a good "bunny thumper" too!

bubba - I remember the rear peep sights that you refer to. When the H & A was sold many years ago - I remember them being advertised in the early 60s in such magazines such as Popular Mechanics, etc. - there were several models that they offered. One had no foreshock - one had a foreshock and a curled trigger guard to dress it up that sat behind the spring loop trigger guard , one had a matchbox, etc. The first one I had was the model without any foreshock and the one I picked up last year has a forestock. Neither have the receiver drilled for their rear peep. I'm pretty sure that that particular sight was only on a specific model that they sold - kind of a "deluxe" model so to speak. Both of the H & As I've had/have came with a adjustable rear sight that was dovetailed in to the barrel. Both of those rifles had Numerich barrels on them - good quality barrels and good rifling but not always spot on caliber wise. If I remember correctly, H & A also offered an under hammer that had gain twist rifling in it - marketed as being "more accurate". I've never seen on in person but I'm assuming that they were probably Numerich barrels as well. That's been a lot of years ago and many miles so the old memory may be a little fuzzy. :-)

[BPJONES]

Nice looking rifle. I just picked up a 45 caliber under hammer custom made rifle from 1966, my first one. I'll post some pics when I receive it.

[waarp8nt]

164882

My Numrich H&A action has a threaded hole for a sight. The factory sight for that hole doesn't appear to be much more than a thumb screw with a hole drilled into it. The magazine backwoodsman had an article on how to make one similar to it. The brass part between the action and stock is just a spacer.

[bubba.50]

the H&A sight was simply a threaded shaft that screwed into that hole & had a knurled ring that locked it down when ya got the elevation where ya wanted it. on the top it had a rectangular bracket that held the peep aperture/backin' plate. ya loosened the aperture/backin' plate to slide it right or left for windage adjustment.

[John Taylor]

Brass does look good on an under hammer. This one has a 1" diameter action and a 32 cal. barrel. Sight is threaded to the action with a thumb screw that hits flat sides on the sight threads to keep it from turning. 1/2 turn on the sight gives about 1/2" at 100 yards. Engraving was done by Dale Woody at gunfancy.com
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[nitroproof]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164949&d=1403145879

John - is that a spare aperture on the side of the frame? Very nicely done BTY.

[BPJONES]

There's a nice Numrich Arms/ Hopkins & Allen 40 caliber under hammer for sale on one of our forums. It has a Lyman peep sight on it. But I think the price is kinda high!

[bob208]

I have 6 of them one a heavy target model that is the one with out a forearm. the one with the shotgun butt is the offhand model. the one with the crestent butt and pistol grip is the heritage model. I have 3 of the original peep sights and two of the globe front sights. one I bought in pieces that one is getting hoyt .40 cal barrel.

[John Taylor]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164949&d=1403145879

John - is that a spare aperture on the side of the frame? Very nicely done BTY.
That's the thumb screw that keeps the rear sight from turning. This is a fun rifle to shoot with 10 grains of 3F, like shooting a 22LR. This one went to my oldest daughter last week. The other daughter got her's a few years back. Got one in the works for Daughter-in-law now. The little 32 is the only one that is engraved.

[Newtire]

Got a chance to shoot the little ".45" buggy rifle I bought the other day. I forgot to check for reliability as it just fired every time without a misfire-so, I guess you can say it's reliable!

The Black MZ that I was using had no troubles lighting off in this rifle any more than it did in other m/l guns I have. Same with the 777. I used CCI #11 caps and none fell off.

A few taps to the right on the rear sight and I was hitting the same place at 25 yards using open sights. Took a .433" ball & a .015" patch. Maybe a bigger .440" ball with a thinner patch & a wad to prevent burn thru next time. I used charges of 55 gr. 777 3f for 1859 fps out of the 20" barrel. The Black MZ was running 1680-1718 fps with 70 gr. volume by comparison.

I just picked up a new REAL bullet mould so will give that a try. Am thinking it would be good for little Idaho whitetails with the REAL bullet-probably round ball too for that matter.



So, 50 yds. & then 100 will be next, once I get a chance. Have a couple more to iron out now but am finding out that Black MZ and 777 are my 2-new favorite M/L powders. Cleanup is a breeze and no wiping between shots with either. The straight line ignition of this underhammer got things lit off same as any centerfire rifle and no fooling around having to use musket caps or even magnum hot caps either. Like the man from Midway says, "And that's the way it is."

[dondiego]

Newtire - Can you post a picture of your Buggy Rifle please? I have what I think is a buggy rifle but not sure.

[Newtire]

Newtire - Can you post a picture of your Buggy Rifle please? I have what I think is a buggy rifle but not sure.Sorry dondiego, just now saw this post. After I get back from the dentist this morninf, will take it outside and get a picture.

[Newtire]

Newtire - Can you post a picture of your Buggy Rifle please? I have what I think is a buggy rifle but not sure.Sorry dondiego, just now saw this post. After I get back from the dentist this morning, will take it outside and get a picture.
It is just the same as the other rifles Numrich sold only has a forestock, receiver not drilled for a sight and open-adjustable sights mounted on short 20-21" barrel.

[dondiego]

My Numrich rifle is just like a Boot Pistol but has a rifle butt stock and fore end and a longer barrel. Never have seen another one like it.

[Earlwb]

I still have my H&A Underhammer rifle from the 1970's. It is somewhat surprising, but I managed to hang onto it. It does shoot really well, no complaints in the accuracy department with it. But it is inconvenient for hunting and walking in the fields and forests. There is no provision for a ramrod on it. So you have to carry it along separately. I think that these rifles were more for sport target shooting at a range more than to be used for hunting.

[waarp8nt]

This one went to my oldest daughter last week. The other daughter got her's a few years back. Got one in the works for Daughter-in-law now. The little 32 is the only one that is engraved.

[smilie=s: Need any extra family members? [smilie=s:

[John Taylor]

[smilie=s: Need any extra family members? [smilie=s:
Yes, one to help the wife with her garden and another to mow the lawn.

[dondiego]

I still have my H&A Underhammer rifle from the 1970's. It is somewhat surprising, but I managed to hang onto it. It does shoot really well, no complaints in the accuracy department with it. But it is inconvenient for hunting and walking in the fields and forests. There is no provision for a ramrod on it. So you have to carry it along separately. I think that these rifles were more for sport target shooting at a range more than to be used for hunting.

I still have mine from the 60's! Mine does hold a ramrod.

[John Taylor]

I had one of the early target under hammers with the heavy barrel in 45 cal. Never did get it to shoot as well as I liked so I sold it. Some kids broke in to the new owners house and stole it. By the time the police found it the kids had hack sawed the barrel almost all the way through in the middle.

[Newtire]

Newtire - Can you post a picture of your Buggy Rifle please? I have what I think is a buggy rifle but not sure.
165492Now, not sure if this is a "buggy rifle" or not. the barrel measures 24" from where it attaches to the action. It sure is alot smaller and lighter than my Target Model.

[Screwbolts]

I have been know to carry an Underhammer from time to time. Mine started life as a Numrich arms H&A, " The Offhand " in 45. After 3000 or so shots it appeared that I burnt the base of the barrel out, couldn't keep it on a pie plate at 30 yards. I re barreled it to 58 ( turns out it was a Numrich seconds barrel that was gifted to me by 2 late friends that were brothers ). And it is named, "Thumper". Modified a Lyman rear sight to fit the curved receiver. Harvested an Antelope in WY in 99 with it. It is no stranger to the harvesting of deer.

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As you can see, I even fit a 12 ga barrel to it but never got the round tuit to finish it. It can be brutal in 12 ga. just 4 lbs loaded. My standard 58 load is 65 gr equivalent of pyro RS and a PRB. deadly.

[John Taylor]

Screwbolts, is that a genuine stock repair I see? I have one in the works that is 20 gauge that is in the works now. Brass frame, half round/octagon barrel with wedding band. Going to the boy scouts for training on muzzle loading shotguns.
Numrich bought the Hopkin and Allen name and started making the under hammer around 1955. The original H&A never made an under hammer. The early rifles where made from solid bar stock and then they went to some thin walled tube with the ends welded or brazed in place ( I have only seen one). The later ones were cast. Don't know when they did away with the taper pin in favor of the set screws. I have been getting hammers, springs and triggers from Deer Creek products.

[Reg]

Screwbolts, is that a genuine stock repair I see? I have one in the works that is 20 gauge that is in the works now. Brass frame, half round/octagon barrel with wedding band. Going to the boy scouts for training on muzzle loading shotguns.
Numrich bought the Hopkin and Allen name and started making the under hammer around 1955. The original H&A never made an under hammer. The early rifles where made from solid bar stock and then they went to some thin walled tube with the ends welded or brazed in place ( I have only seen one). The later ones were cast. Don't know when they did away with the taper pin in favor of the set screws. I have been getting hammers, springs and triggers from Deer Creek products.

Are the under hammer parts shown in their product catalog or do you have to ask if they have them in stock.
Thnaks

[KCSO]

I have hated these things for 40 years! We had a kid in the M/L club who shot a $50 H and A underhammer and he consistently beat us guys with $500 custom Hawkens... and then he would walk away with the goodies and a big grin. He still has the gun and brings it out every once and a while just to tease us. Boy can these guns SHOOT. I recently built one for a friend in 54 calibre as a deer rifle and it's a shooter too and I am working on a detachable stock buggy rifle.

I would say you got a winner there.

[John Taylor]

Are the under hammer parts shown in their product catalog or do you have to ask if they have them in stock.
Thnaks
Need to call and ask them, never saw them in the catalog 765-525-6181

[crossxsticks]

great post guy's enjoyed reading all and looking at the pictures . I have 2 under hammer shot guns think there build on deer creek action in 10 gage 32" mod choke and 1 20 gage barrels made to fit from modern shot gun barrels by a great machinest . also got a boot pistol 45 cal they all shoot great would love to have a 32 cal underhammer maybe some day.

[Screwbolts]

John Taylor, This is the story of my rifle I had this posted on another site.

Reg, I have no experience with a 36 cal Numrich Arms replica of the H&A Underhammer of the 36 caliber. But I did in fact, unverifiable by any here, burn out the barrel of a Numeric arms replica of the Hopkins & Allen Underhammer in .45 cal. That was a copy of what was called " the Offhand " model, 32" of 1x48 twist heavy barrel that loved .440 balls. after more than 3000 caps later it would no longer hold a pie plate at 30 yards, the barrel was burned out at the breech.

On the farm it was not uncommon on rainy days to go threw a pound of BP or pyrodex in one afternoon with that rifle. The back door of the pole barn opened up to a target rich environment, cow patties, dandelions, rocks, fruit shoots. (You know what is left out of them cases of fruit bought as a school fund raiser). with 4 brothers, acouple of sisters and a dad that all enjoyed shooting that old warm underhammer could and did on many occasion go threw a couple tins of caps and a jug of powder, shooting 30 and 45 gr equivilents, great fun, no recoil, hand that thing around in rotation. Many deer were also harvested with that underhammer.

Why are there no photos of your 36 cal? I believe that the above listed loads would be way, way more than adequate for hunting small game with a ball. I would probably us 25 to 30. in the 36 for most recreational shooting. Clean, more thrifty, very high in the giggle facter department.

Check for flex in the attachment of the butt stock to the back of the curved receiver, the tennion , if the right name that the butt slides over isn't all that long and my 45 split the narrow wrist of the butt stock.
Remove the butt pad and with a light, carfully center a wide flatblade screw driver in the 14x20 screw and snug it up. I drilled and epoxy pinned my wrist with pieces of brass 1/16th brazing rod when it split to help save it. this was when it was .45.

Today my action now caries a 29 5/8 inch long (Max length between centers, of my older than me, Atlas lathe, I wish I was as flexable as that lathe, just tighten the belt and things move :-) ) 58 cal barrel that I fit to it making a new breech plug and all. Tapered pin and all. 1/3 octagon, and rest round and tapered down to parrallel round at the muzzle. I took a piece of rod and welded it to the tenon and extended it shortening the butt screw, still flexed with mild 58 loads. One day I was looking it over and decided to wrap the wrist of the stock with a fine craft store bought brass wire. I had brass pins to solder the wire to for a starting point and as a wrapped I bonded with solder the wire to all ends of the pins ending just covering the last pin. To tension the wire I pulled it threw leather pads in the vice to hold resistance and warp tight, I had my solder station hot and soldered the strands of wire to the ends of every pin, so I was holding tight wire wraps while soldering with the other hand. Fortunately I did this while the but stock was attached to the receiver. I actually shrunk/tightened the wood to the tenon in doing this. It is now very tight and hard to remove with very little flex today. In 58, my H&A in 99, harvested an antelope in WY, and a truck load of deer in NYS, before I discover smokeless muzzleloders. ( Not all in one season mind you.) I have settled on a charge of 65 gr equivalent as being more than adequate with the trusted small moon shaped sphere that is real close to 5/8 oz of lead. never recover one, always complete pass threw .

I also took a Marlin 12 ga cut off at the chamber barrel ( from Gun Parts corp) and fit to the receiver. 26" of 12 gauge bore and modern steel, that threaded hard with stamp saying modified choke ( I can not begin to explain my thoughts after firing the 12 ga barrel barrel for the first time with 70 gr equivalent of pyro and then felt wad and then the powder volume equivalent of 7.5s, topped off with over shot wad cut from a paste board milk carton. This was while I was building it, it wasn't done, but I could taper pin it to the reciever, and shoot it. Yippee, and never did finish it. WOW, No fore end, little barrel weight just the necessities to safely pop a cap. I immediately decided to check the weight of that contraption that just pulled itself from the grasp of my left hand and said hello to my shoulder as nothing like I had anticipated. Take a look at that tiny butt plate on your stock, and you might understand. The scale confirmed that it just barley broke 4 pounds loaded. It has not been shot much.:-)

They are fun,

Ken