Is this normal for Boolit base

[lablover]

When I have my heat up a little bit on my 10 lb lee pot my bases start looking like this. If I dial the heat back a little the bases look tons cleaner but then my edges on the boolit itself start not being as sharp as I think they should be.

Any thoughts? Not even sure the bases looking a little rough is even an issue.

164721

[leadman]

It is more important that the edges of the bases are filled out to seal the bore. I don't worry about the little bit of metal pulled out as yours show. If it bothers you a bit more time cooling the sprue might get rid of it. Fine line between what you have and a hump left from the sprue being too cold.

[Huvius]

I think maybe try cutting the sprue earlier while the lead is still soft then wait a moment before dropping them.
I don't think bases like that are an issue though.

[dudel]

I get those one it a while when I cut the sprue early (boolit still a bit soft, and the sprue plate pulls out a little divot). They shoot just fine. The key part of the base are the edges. You want clean, sharp edges (like you have there!).

[popper]

Neither will hurt close range accuracy or cause leading (I don't worry about ones like yours for pistol). Try a gloved hand to cut the sprue. Watch the sprue puddle dimple and change color (best I can describe it) then cut the sprue. Look at the base before dropping the boolit. If divet'd, wait a little longer. You should just feel a little 'pop' when it's right. Too long and sprue is really hard to cut and probably will cause a sloped base. Oh, turn the mould upside down to close the sprue plate. Take your time and experiment till you get it the way you want, then practice rhythm. Run the melt on the hot side for good fillout - maybe break the top edges of the mould under the sprue plate to help venting. Your boolits look really good for a first-timer. Practice makes perfect. You don't need tin for good filllout!
164722

[mdi]

Vary the "cooling time" before cutting the sprue. See which method (time) gives you the results you're looking for...

[44man]

Divots at the sprue will not harm a thing. Alloys work different and some break and others cut smooth. A perfect cut usually means lead too soft for the gun anyway.

[Doc Highwall]

When I cut the sprue too early I get divots like that, If I wait just a couple of seconds longer they go away and give me perfect bases.

Try using a clock with a second hand, and when the sprue freezes look at the second hand and wait X amount of seconds then cut the sprue. I have found that I need to wait 8-10 seconds before cutting the sprue with my 30:1 alloy at 800 degrees.

[runfiverun]

one more second would be about right.
I don't get all wrapped up about a little divot like that unless it's leading down to a bigger hole, or if I'm trying for max accuracy and velocity.
I'd rather have the square sharp corners.

[DerekP Houston]

I have that missing divot occasionally as well if I cut the sprue too early. I don't worry about picking them out though, I just wait for the next batch an extra second and it usually clears up.

[lablover]

So, after reading the advice here and doing some experimenting this is what happened.

Today I got my mold thermometer from NOE. I found that if I let the mold get too hot and It took one smack at the spru plate I got the base tear out. A matter of 10 degrees less heat in the mold and a couple of lighter smacks at the spru plate I got nice even bases.

Some of you mentioned no big deal either way. I hope to shoot this bullet in 50 yard Bullseye matches so I'm being a bit Anal.

What I need to do is load some up and shoot them before I make a bunch of them. I just can't seem to stop the casting..

Joe

[jsizemore]

When everything falls in place, keep on rolling. Advice is nice, but prove to yourself whether that divot makes a difference. Are you air cooling or water dropping?

[popper]

Don't smack it, used a leather gloved hand. You need good sharp base edge. You can't really 'feel' what is going on with smacking. I wrap my gloved hand around the end of the mould and apply pressure to the sprue 'lever' with the pad below the thumb. TOO EARLY, IT WILL SLIDE, TOO HARD AND YOU GET TO WHACK IT, JUST RIGHT AND IT GOES POP AS THE SPRUE CUTS. The pic is a PB @ 2100 for BO and does very well @ 100 yds.

[lablover]

When everything falls in place, keep on rolling. Advice is nice, but prove to yourself whether that divot makes a difference. Are you air cooling or water dropping?


Air cooling..I've been debating water drop.
Popper
I'll give it a try with glove hand. I'll have to get the mold hotter for sure then because I don't see being able to open it with my hand

[gwpercle]

You can be anal , it's OK .
I like perfect boolits too , save these for short range practice and the perfect ones for 50 yard .

Tip : tow or three med taps with a wooden mallet are better than one big hit , It will cut the sprue smoother. I never could do the gloved hand opening thing.

Pour the sprue , let it frost over then count, 1001 , 1002 , 1003, 1004 , 1005 (sometimes you have adjust time) then cut the sprue with two or three taps . Moulds , like women , respond better to being treated gently and lovingly.
Gary

[dudel]

Moulds , like women , respond better to being treated gently and lovingly.
Gary

That's why I open the sprue plate with a mink glove....

[Gtek]

Absorb all said above, much great advise. And while you are making yourself nuts striving for perfection (I am in the club also), check and make sure counter hole in plate is cut deep enough with nice sharp edge to bottom of plate. Being humans sometimes that little thing is overlooked and they get shoved in a box and out the door they go.

[lablover]

I've counted to 10 as well and still get the tear out. I have a RCBS Thermometer on the way and should have it in a few days. I really want to know what the pot melt is set at....For all I know its way too hot or too cool. I will experiment more tomorrow. I took everyone with a divot and re melted them and tried again. Is it possible to overwork lead? I can tell these babies have a sweet spot they like to operate at. When my mold got up over 445 def I got the caves in the base. When at 433 and a few gentle hits I got nice bases. My concern is sometimes I got a NON sharp edge on the driving bands. I think I need to find the sweet spot between mold temp and lead temp.

[Doc Highwall]

Lablover, when you say you count to 10, is this after the sprue freezes, or after you finish the pour?

I start my time AFTER the sprue freezes.

I just want everybody to be on the same page.

[lablover]

Lablover, when you say you count to 10, is this after the sprue freezes, or after you finish the pour?

I start my time AFTER the sprue freezes.

I just want everybody to be on the same page.

After the spru freezes. Thats why I'm not sure why its happening, sure isn't because I'm not waiting long enough

[hutch18414]

Just a guess on my part but I would say you are running your alloy a lot hotter than you think if a 10 count is still tearing and not leaving a nub. That thermometer you have coming is a valuable tool on the road to perfection.

[Doc Highwall]

If you are waiting for a 10 second count, either your alloy and casting cadence is keeping the lead hot too long, or you could have a dull sprue plate. Check with a magnifying glass and make sure that the hole comes to a sharp edge. If it does not you will have to sharpen it, make sure to stone the bottom of the sprue plate where it slides across the mould for burrs so it will not scratch the mould top.

[sigep1764]

So my Accurate 359 120b mold does this as it gets a little too hot. A couple of seconds on a damp sponge every ten pours or so prevents it. My mold needs the little extra heat to fill out though with my alloy

[lablover]

Yea, I can't wait for the pot thermometer. I fear my pot is too hot! :)

Spru plate looks fine..Nice and sharp

[Forrest r]

I'd simply use a damp rag and quit worrying about temps, counting, how fast or slow you work, etc.

Not wet, damp. I usually use a washcloth (12" x 12") piece of cloth/rag. Pour the bullet as I normally would and wait for the sprue to harden and get a dimple. Then I touch/put the damp rag on the sprues for 2 or 3 seconds and then open the mold with a tapper. The end result is perfect bullet bases. Doing this also keep the mold cool enough to cast at a faster pace.

Anyway, when you get tired of counting, waiting, trying for the perfect temp. Give a damp cloth a try, excellent bullets and allot more of them in the same amount of time.

[lablover]

I'd simply use a damp rag and quit worrying about temps, counting, how fast or slow you work, etc.

Not wet, damp. I usually use a washcloth (12" x 12") piece of cloth/rag. Pour the bullet as I normally would and wait for the sprue to harden and get a dimple. Then I touch/put the damp rag on the sprues for 2 or 3 seconds and then open the mold with a tapper. The end result is perfect bullet bases. Doing this also keep the mold cool enough to cast at a faster pace.

Anyway, when you get tired of counting, waiting, trying for the perfect temp. Give a damp cloth a try, excellent bullets and allot more of them in the same amount of time.

I'll give it a try today!

[45workhorse]

Weigh your boollets then you won't have to worry. That way when you shoot nice one hole groups, you will know it's all you!
The one that don't pass the test, remelt or use for practice. The rest should shoot good for you at 50 yard comp.
"Some of you mentioned no big deal either way. I hope to shoot this bullet in 50 yard Bullseye matches so I'm being a bit Anal."

[DerekP Houston]

I'll give it a try today!

If you want to really get OCD just get a PID from one of the members here. Instant digital temp control over any lead pot. Made my lee 4-20 cast much more consistently. I think you're still trying to find the fine line between too soon and too late, its an art! One thing I forgot to mention, sometimes my *mold* is hot but the sprue plate isn't quite up to temp and it makes for difficult casting. I occassionally dip the corner in to the lead to help it catch back up. I haven't used the damp sponge/towel method...too scared to bring water near the molten lead.

[44man]

I have posted many, many groups over the years shot when I could see and hold steady of course.
Everyone has seen them and every single boolit has some tear out at the sprue.
Just not a big deal. The worst is having a lump when you need to apply a GC.
I use little taps to cut but if timing is off, the thing can break at the first tap but you will never shoot good enough to tell. It gets to be like sorting 400+ gr boolits by 1/2 gr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[44man]

I don't post many new groups much, I worry about stabbing my lip with a fork now, spill coffee trying to get it in the maker!
I don't have many pains but get a bruise on the back of my hands now and then and don't know what I bumped. Big guns are losing the luster. Just a few years.
To read so much worry over nothing just gives me a chuckle. Relax fellas, soon you will waste days and years.
Carol wakes me up by letting my little dog in for a hug, then my little one wants to play and I play heck to get her so she can go pot. She has 80 or 90 toys Carol bought for her. I get coffee and come down with her so she gets her morning treats. She is on her pillow under my seat.
THAT is important, if you love a dog, you are my friend for life.
Forget the small stuff, my worry is if all dogs and people I loved will be in heaven with me. If I get there of course!

[Dan Cash]

I'd simply use a damp rag and quit worrying about temps, counting, how fast or slow you work, etc.

Not wet, damp. I usually use a washcloth (12" x 12") piece of cloth/rag. Pour the bullet as I normally would and wait for the sprue to harden and get a dimple. Then I touch/put the damp rag on the sprues for 2 or 3 seconds and then open the mold with a tapper. The end result is perfect bullet bases. Doing this also keep the mold cool enough to cast at a faster pace.

Anyway, when you get tired of counting, waiting, trying for the perfect temp. Give a damp cloth a try, excellent bullets and allot more of them in the same amount of time.

Good advice. A hole in the bullet base unbalances the bullet. So many people here figure a long range shot is 10 yards and true, at that range it does not make much difference. You are wanting to get decent grouping at 50 yards and it does make a difference at that range. If you are casting big bullets in the 4-500 grain range, counting is important there as too quick opening of the mould and dropping the bullet can bend it. They stay soft for quite a while.

[44man]

Now a hole from an incomplete fill is different, what you don't want . But the little tears from a fracture will not harm a thing.

[lablover]

Well todays casting went much better. I Wet Sanded the bottom of the sprue plate..Lubed several times during my casting session and watch the temps. I also tried the wet wash cloth trick and it worked pretty well. Made a bunch of awesome boolits and then promptly screwed up half of them when I went to size them without lube....Live and learn right.

[Gamsek]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160329/1ff951990835686955edf7e5e44bf61c.jpg

Just asking experts, is this ok or I could make my bases better? No smearing and they just dropped out as soon as I turn over the mold and pushed the pins (its a hollow point mold). Thanks

[lablover]

I bet the one on the left was first in line in the pour. I'm sort of glad you posted this, mine look the same way. Looks like the first is not filled out all the way





http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160329/1ff951990835686955edf7e5e44bf61c.jpg

Just asking experts, is this ok or I could make my bases better? No smearing and they just dropped out as soon as I turn over the mold and pushed the pins (its a hollow point mold). Thanks

[44man]

Other then that one, they look good. Big molds just need a little more heat. It will still shoot OK.

[William Yanda]

Absorb all said above, much great advise. And while you are making yourself nuts striving for perfection (I am in the club also), check and make sure counter hole in plate is cut deep enough with nice sharp edge to bottom of plate. Being humans sometimes that little thing is overlooked and they get shoved in a box and out the door they go.

16 replies addressing temp and time before anyone mentioned checking the sprue plate. That was my thought, glad to see it considered.

[nagantguy]

I don't post many new groups much, I worry about stabbing my lip with a fork now, spill coffee trying to get it in the maker!
I don't have many pains but get a bruise on the back of my hands now and then and don't know what I bumped. Big guns are losing the luster. Just a few years.
To read so much worry over nothing just gives me a chuckle. Relax fellas, soon you will waste days and years.
Carol wakes me up by letting my little dog in for a hug, then my little one wants to play and I play heck to get her so she can go pot. She has 80 or 90 toys Carol bought for her. I get coffee and come down with her so she gets her morning treats. She is on her pillow under my seat.
THAT is important, if you love a dog, you are my friend for life.
Forget the small stuff, my worry is if all dogs and people I loved will be in heaven with me. If I get there of course!

Lots and lots of sage advice in that post, it's all about the "little" important things, family friends and dogs, and in this case casting! To the OP, many above whom know way more than me have nailed it, your little base dimes will not effect accuracy at the range you speak of, I also totally get striving for perfect boolits, in my first year of casting I repeated way more than I kept to load, then I tried a large batch of my "rejects" in an idpa practice, now my rejects are idpa practice ammo, I may not always shoot the fastest times but I very very seldom miss the 0 scoring ring.

[popper]

Gamsek - great pic. Break the edge of the mould for better venting. Also clean the lead off the plate and mould top - use ECO AC oil for a lube ( it REALLY WORKS). Left one, sprue cut is great but cool cavity didn't get good fill out. Heat from it warmed the next cavity so better better fillout but sprue gets cut too early. Etc. on down the line. As you work down the line, sprue increases the weight of the plate makes the heat at the junction more constant so everything works better. Experiment with just pouring the middle 2 cavities and check the results. I've stopped using 4x rifle moulds for that reason, just 2x now. The reason for the divets? Middle of sprue and boolit base have not 'frozen' yet? No, froze too early - not pulled, just not filled (& if you look under a magnifier, crytal looking hole)! Sprue plate temp is too low, sprue cools too fast. When you 'whack' the plate, it usually will rise and give non-flat base.

[Gamsek]

Gamsek - great pic. Break the edge of the mould for better venting. Also clean the lead off the plate and mould top - use ECO AC oil for a lube ( it REALLY WORKS). Left one, sprue cut is great but cool cavity didn't get good fill out. Heat from it warmed the next cavity so better better fillout but sprue gets cut too early. Etc. on down the line. As you work down the line, sprue increases the weight of the plate makes the heat at the junction more constant so everything works better. Experiment with just pouring the middle 2 cavities and check the results. I've stopped using 4x rifle moulds for that reason, just 2x now. The reason for the divets? Middle of sprue and boolit base have not 'frozen' yet? No, froze too early - not pulled, just not filled (& if you look under a magnifier, crytal looking hole)! Sprue plate temp is too low, sprue cools too fast. When you 'whack' the plate, it usually will rise and give non-flat base.

Yes lablover, the left cavity was first, I start using new furnace ( tried with 400 C for that hollow point mold) and I am "pulling the mold" towards me
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160330/55978480b48f6e92da9570ab12971f14.jpg

Thank you Popper for advice, experimenting with right alloy temperature, heating the brass mold, timing for sprue cutting and opening the mold... and I know "the devil" is hidden in small details. Since my furnace has PID, I can set temp and get repeatable results for next time. Learning
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160330/23c0b1912bcb12832f54d3293e1b3c9b.jpg

This was with non hp 9mm preheated brass mold alloy at 360 C, I think bases are ok http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160330/e797e56b1eb6038f3ddf4aab28f4a1d9.jpg

Guys, this forum is really a place for advanced casting (sometimes we just want perfect results). And sometimes we don't worry much;)

[Doc Highwall]

Gamesk, who made your furnace and how many lbs of lead does it hold, it looks nice

[Gamsek]

Gamesk, who made your furnace and how many lbs of lead does it hold, it looks nice

I got some plans for it and most parts from one very skilled man, then:
•Welder made inside pot, thick 4mm chrome, holds heat well, size 10x10x10cm and he made all necessary holes and weld small parts
•Machinist made missing small parts and assembled it
•Powder company- powder coated (should choose a bit slicker surface)
•Electrician-assembled PID, components bought on internet.
Not my idea, did just few minor modifications.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160330/993be0a4ba51855f46982525ab81d3c8.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160330/edd8e051ee04158ce0016c9fd5d2ca2f.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160330/69b4a862b49e78cc3b152b67e1ad5ef4.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160330/dcd7fa2cca5d2774c1767b6574ea73a2.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160330/cb700e8ff22fc20cc1433b673e91fb11.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160330/68b4952f9eaf9f37313055911817ee47.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160330/fc536f453497e9208f4178908362cdde.jpg


And this is fully working prototype (again, not my idea!) that served as inspirationhttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160330/565ab4dd995a22dcf9923a3cf8a7da46.jpg

Some parts that had to be made or ordered
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160330/49feb2efd2d23259e6663dee7a1f3a53.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160330/37dcd572824f29b1fc39db3d791e98b1.jpg

It holds 15kg I guess.
Playing with my new toy in order to see what can be made better (mold guide, hight of legs, proportions....) so, if there is version "3" some day, it should be even better/user friendly

[robg]

If you cast with 2 mould's fill one put it down fill the other then cut the sprue on the first mould it allows the lead to cool enough so you get clean bases and cast more boolits without having to count or wait for the mould to cool.well I cast better this way,another way to try out.

[SSGOldfart]

That's why I open the sprue plate with a mink glove....
Hmmm that could be a costly comment if the wife was to be reading here.

[SSGOldfart]

I got some plans for it and most parts from one very skilled man, then:
•Welder made inside pot, thick 4mm chrome, holds heat well, size 10x10x10cm and he made all necessary holes and weld small parts
•Machinist made missing small parts and assembled it
•Powder company- powder coated (should choose a bit slicker surface)
•Electrician-assembled PID, components bought on internet.
Not my idea, did just few minor modifications.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160330/993be0a4ba51855f46982525ab81d3c8.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160330/edd8e051ee04158ce0016c9fd5d2ca2f.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160330/69b4a862b49e78cc3b152b67e1ad5ef4.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160330/dcd7fa2cca5d2774c1767b6574ea73a2.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160330/cb700e8ff22fc20cc1433b673e91fb11.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160330/68b4952f9eaf9f37313055911817ee47.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160330/fc536f453497e9208f4178908362cdde.jpg


And this is fully working prototype (again, not my idea!) that served as inspirationhttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160330/565ab4dd995a22dcf9923a3cf8a7da46.jpg

Some parts that had to be made or ordered
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160330/49feb2efd2d23259e6663dee7a1f3a53.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160330/37dcd572824f29b1fc39db3d791e98b1.jpg

It holds 15kg I guess.
Playing with my new toy in order to see what can be made better (mold guide, hight of legs, proportions....) so, if there is version "3" some day, it should be even better/user friendly
Very nice work any idea how much you have in it?

[Gamsek]

Very nice work any idea how much you have in it?

Half the price what would Pro-melt cost me here in Europe. And it has PID;)